Make a Contract With Me! [Lag Backup Thread]

[Orm Embar]

[quote author=Alectai]
You're all assuming that Tetsu is a perfectly rational actor who knows he'll always win, so he can take his time to make sure to keep an eye on his image. His biggest problem is that he Doesn't give a shit what people think of him, because he'll just fucking kill you if you even mildly inconvienence him.
[/quote]This is just not true. Rihaku mentioned that he does care about his status and wouldn't kill someone for a humiliating prank; only people who threaten him receive this treatment.

 

[Alectai]

By the way, I managed to dig out Rihaku's quote about the danger sense:

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So, your arguing then that his Spidey Sense is literally Plot Armor, because it has enough coherence that it automatically ignores things that aren't a serious threat to him. But keys off of even Xanatos Gambits that have only been planned, but not set in motion yet?

There is No Way that "Plot Armor" is a power that's weak enough to also let him start off with top-tier meguca stats. If it's really sensitive enough that it can only pop up from "actual threats", then killing him is hopeless, because he out-stats us, has a power that basically says "I have GM enforced protection", and if he's also apparently 100% rational about employing that, then beating him was never, ever possible, no matter how strong we got.

I don't believe in "No Win Situations". And if the scale is that stacked against us, then we might as well throw in the towel now.

Sure there is he's probably going to have to go to that suicide forest in order to hunt witches eventually particularly if we make him more desperate to start hunting and replenishing his soul gem via causing problems for him.

He doesn't know that though and my point was that we can afford to keep reconning him without worrying about him up and charging at us at random, not that he wasn't going to do so during a fight. Which was why I didn't want us to intervene right now.

Which is why I'm not relying on him doing that in a fight but am relying on it for while we're doing our reconnaissance.

I'm beginning to think we're arguing around one another at the moment.

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By word of Rihaku, If we continue reconing him, he'll eventually get fed up and investigate himself.

He Knows where we are any time we're observing him. The only reason he hasn't come after us personally yet is because he hasn't heard back from the guys he sent to investigate, and he had other shit to take care of.

 

[Alectai]

This is just not true. Rihaku mentioned that he does care about his status and would kill someone for a humiliating prank; only people who threaten him receive this treatment.

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I thought Rihaku said "He'd actually ignore it unless the one responsible triggered as a threat to him".

Could you find the quote for that? You may be right, but I'd like to double-check

 

[Malcolmo]

You assume that his Soul Gem will darken any meaningful amount. We were a hell of a lot lower then he was when we started, and our mindset was still fairly stable.

He's already shown that he doesn't fucking tolerate challenges, and slates them as "Enemies", and he has no qualms with killing them. Right now, he's trying to justify her as one, and will kill her the moment he's succeeded at doing so.

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You honestly think that if he kills his girlfriend and we go through with the phone police to cause trouble for him plan his gem won't end up darkened?
As far as our gem went we first had a very expensive ability and then had Tatsu crowing about how he killed our parents. Which pissed us off enough we decided we wanted him dead something which is not quite the hallmark of stable people.

The same advantages we already benefit from now ? That's why we should wait to attack later, when he has time to realize that if the yakuzas he sent to ferret us out don't manages to find us it's because we're not a bog standard traitor ?

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Or he thinks they sucked at finding people or are in league with us and plotting against him as well. either way he's unlikely to discover who we are and what exactly our capabilities may be until we decide to reveal ourselves.

 

[Orm Embar]

I thought Rihaku said "He'd actually ignore it unless the one responsible triggered as a threat to him".

Could you find the quote for that? You may be right, but I'd like to double-check

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I actually can't, due to being on a phone/lag. Makes it hard to refute walls of text.

 

[Nezi_Karaketas]

Also, people who argue for patience, remember, Tetsus danger sense is also feeding some unknown amount of information that he cannot interpret yet. If you think his danger sense is bullshit as it is, then please continue to argue to wait. It sure as hell could not get better, even though the guy is going to have all the reason in the world to improve it. After all, what kind of idiot would take measures when his danger sense is telling him that he is constantly under threat, for days on end.

 

[Alectai]

You honestly think that if he kills his girlfriend and we go through with the phone police to cause trouble for him plan his gem won't end up darkened?
As far as our gem went we first had a very expensive ability and then had Tatsu crowing about how he killed our parents. Which pissed us off enough we decided we wanted him dead something which is not quite the hallmark of stable people.Or he thinks they sucked at finding people or are in league with us and plotting against him as well. either way he's unlikely to discover who we are and what exactly our capabilities may be until we decide to reveal ourselves.

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Pretty sure the Police aren't going to want to fuck with the head of the Tetsu Group, especially when anyone who's tried probably ended up dead.

 

[Aloysius]

Hey. Arguments for both sides have been made and nothing really new is coming up.
We would be better served by presenting strategy for either fights situation, delayed or immediate.

 

[Malcolmo]

By word of Rihaku, If we continue reconing him, he'll eventually get fed up and investigate himself.

He Knows where we are any time we're observing him. The only reason he hasn't come after us personally yet is because he hasn't heard back from the guys he sent to investigate, and he had other shit to take care of.

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Yes but he won't do so by transforming and charging our location at top speed now will he. Particularly since he has no real reason to do so or any clue that he should be doing so.

If anything we could take advantage of that and lure him to either that forest or somewhere else we decided to take the fight to. Thus acquiring prepared ground and starting the fight on our own terms.

 

[Pipeman]

So, your arguing then that his Spidey Sense is literally Plot Armor, because it has enough coherence that it automatically ignores things that aren't a serious threat to him. But keys off of even Xanatos Gambits that have only been planned, but not set in motion yet?

Click to shrink...

I'm not saying anything.
I am directly quoting Rihaku, because it seemed relevant to the issue at hand.

By word of Rihaku, If we continue reconing him, he'll eventually get fed up and investigate himself.

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Rihaku said that he'd do this if continued to intentionally trigger his Danger Sense to annoy him.
Rihaku never said normal recon on him without triggering the Danger Sense is impossible and Tetsu's own inner dialogue suggests that even if we did trigger it now and then he wouldn't necessarily check it out himself.
That said, if we really can't observe him without triggering the danger sense, we probably shouldn't because he really could decide to take care of things himself or just get too good a handle of his Danger Sense through our coninuous triggering of it.

So could we just get word of god if all recon on him triggers the Danger Sense?

 

[Alectai]

Yes but he won't do so by transforming and charging our location at top speed now will he. Particularly since he has no real reason to do so or any clue that he should be doing so.

If anything we could take advantage of that and lure him to either that forest or somewhere else we decided to take the fight to. Thus acquiring prepared ground and starting the fight on our own terms.

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You're assuming that a guy who has one of his major character traits being "Poor Impulse Control" and "A Really bad temper", will just quietly and slowly approach a threat like that.

But it's right, we're just going back and forth and neither side's moving at this point. Let's just table the discussion and see what happens in the thread. I did put up strategy for the first several moves of any engagement we might have with him in the SB thread before lag really kicked in.

 

[Rihaku]

So, your arguing then that his Spidey Sense is literally Plot Armor, because it has enough coherence that it automatically ignores things that aren't a serious threat to him. But keys off of even Xanatos Gambits that have only been planned, but not set in motion yet?

There is No Way that "Plot Armor" is a power that's weak enough to also let him start off with top-tier meguca stats. If it's really sensitive enough that it can only pop up from "actual threats", then killing him is hopeless, because he out-stats us, has a power that basically says "I have GM enforced protection", and if he's also apparently 100% rational about employing that, then beating him was never, ever possible, no matter how strong we got.

Click to shrink...

I actually don't understand what you're trying to convey here. Randomly redefining powers as 'plot armor' and then saying Ryoushuu will never be able to beat him because...no coherent reason?

In general, I will say that some of your statements tend to be far more hysterical and absolutist than the evidence remotely allows for. The motivation seems to be pre-emptive defeatism so you won't be disappointed if you lose, I guess? You may want to consider tuning it down; even people who agree with you may get annoyed.

 

[TheOtherSandman]

Perhaps part of the reason why our recon is setting off his Spidey Sense is because before we took Scope 4, all observation had to take place through the scope of a rifle.

And I wonder how many times dear Ryoushou was tempted to just pull the trigger while he had Tetsu in his crosshairs.

 

[Malcolmo]

Also, people who argue for patience, remember, Tetsus danger sense is also feeding some unknown amount of information that he cannot interpret yet. If you think his danger sense is bullshit as it is, then please continue to argue to wait. It sure as hell could not get better, even though the guy is going to have all the reason in the world to improve it. After all, what kind of idiot would take measures when his danger sense is telling him that he is constantly under threat, for days on end.

Click to shrink...

And how exactly would his danger sense get better? While he is using it a lot that doesn't mean he knows how to or can improve it at the moment particularly since he currently doesn't think he needs to do so and we will probably kill him long before he makes a breakthrough on it.

Pretty sure the Police aren't going to want to fuck with the head of the Tetsu Group, especially when anyone who's tried probably ended up dead.

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They will if the daughter of an important businessman just died. Not to mention I doubt Tetsu has been killing everyone investigating him since that would only raise suspicion and make his position even harder to maintain.

 

[Nezi_Karaketas]

Rihaku never said normal recon on him without triggering the Danger Sense is impossible and Tetsu's own inner dialogue suggests that even

Click to shrink...

You posted a quote, but I see that you failed to read and understand it properly. We do not need to have our rifle trained at him to triger his danger sense. Just having a serious plan involving a physical harm to Tetsu is enough to trigger it. Heres the relevant part of the quote you posted :

sensitive enough to detect even serious plans that portend physical harm.

 

[Rihaku]

I actually can't, due to being on a phone/lag. Makes it hard to refute walls of text.

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You two are actually in agreement; the version of your post that he quoted says "would" instead of "wouldn't."

 

[Malcolmo]

Perhaps part of the reason why our recon is setting off his Spidey Sense is because before we took Scope 4, all observation had to take place through the scope of a rifle.

And I wonder how many times dear Ryoushou was tempted to just pull the trigger while he had Tetsu in his crosshairs.

Click to shrink...

Um wasn't the only thing scope 4 did was make it so that our glasses qualified as a scope?

 

[Pipeman]

Perhaps part of the reason why our recon is setting off his Spidey Sense is because before we took Scope 4, all observation had to take place through the scope of a rifle.

And I wonder how many times dear Ryoushou was tempted to just pull the trigger while he had Tetsu in his crosshairs.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, the fact that we were able to notice him starting to kill Eri, in spite of the fact that we stopped triggering his Danger Sense before that, pretty heavily suggests we are able to continue recon without automatically triggering it.

 

[Alectai]

I actually don't understand what you're trying to convey here. Randomly redefining powers as 'plot armor' and then saying Ryoushuu will never be able to beat him because...no coherent reason?

In general, I will say that some of your statements tend to be far more hysterical and absolutist than the evidence remotely allows for. The motivation seems to be pre-emptive defeatism so you won't be disappointed if you lose, I guess? You may want to consider tuning it down; even people who agree with you may get annoyed.

Click to shrink...

It's hard not to feel defeatist Because when I'm not being sensational, I tend to get universally ignored.

I've also got a list of times I've been fucked over for not being paranoid enough a Mile Long, so my typical reaction tends to be pessimistic.

It's not like I'm trying to be defeatist. But when I get caught in an argument, I tend to spiral downwards.

Plus, you know, I'm trying to highlight just how silly it is to assume the other guy will never, ever make a mistake, and has perfect powers that will never steer him wrong, that he'll always listen to. Right now, the chief argument for "Patience" is that we'll somehow miraculously manage to lead him to an isolated location, or that "We're not going to kill him anyway, so why try".

Rambling a bit at this point though >_< For what it's worth, I don't get this emotionally invested in most quests that I'll take my leash off and fight tooth and nail, letting my grim and defeatist inner personality hide since I'm not spending time and effort to keep it pushed in.

 

[Deadly Snark]

I have to agree that at this point the arguments really aren't going anywhere. What we need to do is to start churning out more fanfics that would increase our chances to finally kill this guy next update.

 

[Vanathor]

@Rihaku - I believe I asked this in the main thread but I never received a reply. Earlier you confirmed we purchased Scope 4, so can you reveal the effects of Scope 5 please?

 

[Rihaku]

Rather, you should brainstorm ideas for how to fight him, since you are fighting him soon, be it now or after a timeskip of observation.

 

[Deadly Snark]

Rather, you should brainstorm ideas for how to fight him, since you are fighting him soon, be it now or after a timeskip of observation.

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Well yeah, that's what I meant.

 

[Pipeman]

You posted a quote, but I see that you failed to read and understand it properly. We do not need to have our rifle trained at him to triger his danger sense. Just having a serious plan involving a physical harm to Tetsu is enough to trigger it. Heres the relevant part of the quote you posted :

sensitive enough to detect even serious plans that portend physical harm.

Click to shrink...

First of all, I was posting that quote, because Alectai kept going on about how it's intent that matters, when Rihaku clearly said it isn't.

Secondly, while we know it's able to detect plans that involve physical harm, the fact that we aren't always triggering it clearly shows this functionality is also limited.
Finding out which of our actions exactly managed to triggered it is only made even more problematic by the fact that we don't know what exactly Hitori was doing while triggering it.
The only occasion we actually know of the Danger Sense reacting to plans alone is when he gathers his people for inspection, which together with the fact that he actually has to gather his people for this suggests that this functionality is somewhat limited by distance.

 

[Nezi_Karaketas]

And how exactly would his danger sense get better? While he is using it a lot that doesn't mean he knows how to or can improve it at the moment particularly since he currently doesn't think he needs to do so and we will probably kill him long before he makes a breakthrough on it.

Click to shrink...

Hell if I know how it`s going to improve. It`s just a possibility that I wouldn`t discount. Also, being constantly in danger for days on end would sure as hell make me think about improving, so I can only assume that it is going to be one of the things that Tetsu is going to do. Whether he succeeds or not, I do not know. But even a smallest possibility of success is pants shitting terrifying and not worth the risk imho.

 

[Vindictus]

[X] Just fucking shoot him

Seriously, guys, he can SENSE us sniping him. I'm not sure if he is actually fast enough to dodge a bullet, especially a hypersonic round like the ones we're toting around, but we don't need to fucking gamble with it when he's distracted right now.

 

[Alectai]

Rather, you should brainstorm ideas for how to fight him, since you are fighting him soon, be it now or after a timeskip of observation.

Click to shrink...

Had a few ideas that I got on SB. The hard part is that we don't have any effective tools that aren't "Shoot a Man".

Seekers would be handy, especially if he tried to speedblitz past them.. Impactor-Jumps would be a useful trump card too--get near a window, jump back, fire an impactor--he runs into it, we get some distance and have a chance to disengage.

If it does come to a fight, take it indoors--we can see through walls, he can see us when we're targetting him. But our weapons are anti-material, while he has to physically go through them to hit us. We have the advantage, especially since he can't use his eyes to read our movements.

He doesn't seem to have Coordination as a Skill, which means that if we make sure our fighting ground has plenty of stuff lying all over the place, he's going to have his speed limited so he doesn't wind up tripping. We do have Coordination, and it's nearly maxed out. Any fight that requires a shitload of parkour in tight quarters gives us the advantage--like in the sewer systems, or other tight-quarter spaces with lots of shit lying all over the place.

If we limit his speed, our chances of killing him go way up.

 

[TheOtherSandman]

Um wasn't the only thing scope 4 did was make it so that our glasses qualified as a scope?

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It's more the fact that he had his rifle in his hands, ready to fire, and was pointed directly at Tetsu.
Looking through his glasses is just like an awesome pair of binoculars and he can't be temped to just move his finger a little and squeeze.

And since the sense pings when there's danger, except for the times he was tempted, there wasn't any.
Which were few enough that Tetsu could have just thought they were rivals or disgruntled members of the group.

 

[Nezi_Karaketas]

First of all, I was posting that quote, because Alectai kept going on about how it's intent that matters, when Rihaku clearly said it isn't.

Secondly, while we know it's able to detect plans that involve physical harm, the fact that we aren't always triggering it clearly shows this functionality is also limited.
Finding out which of our actions exactly managed to triggered it is only made even more problematic by the fact that we don't know what exactly Hitori was doing while triggering it.
The only occasion we actually know of the Danger Sense reacting to plans alone is when he gathers his people for inspection, which together with the fact that he actually has to gather his people for this suggests that this functionality is somewhat limited by distance.

Click to shrink...

Hmm, I assumed it triggered when the one planning to harm him was directly observing him. And distance only being a deciding factor in how much information Tetsu actually gets about the threat.

 

[Malcolmo]

It's hard not to feel defeatist Because when I'm not being sensational, I tend to get universally ignored.

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If anyone here should be feeling defeatist it's me since the choice I'm pushing is against the noted will of the majority of the sb thread. Which how considering how last time ended is unlikely to end in me succeeding. Although this time there's the notable difference of me having actually slept the past two nights.