• The site has now migrated to Xenforo 2. If you see any issues with the forum operation, please post them in the feedback thread.
  • An addendum to Rule 3 regarding fan-translated works of things such as Web Novels has been made. Please see here for details.
  • Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
  • For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
  • Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
  • Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
  • The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.

Only Human (Goddess of Victory NIKKE SI)

Chapter 80 - Revealing the Rot New
===
Chapter 80 - Revealing the Rot
===

Taking a deep, bracing breath, Joe resolved to reveal everything to Cinderella, to finally let it all out. To let the work begin.

So, he started. "You've been told about everything that's happened to me, since I woke up in the Ark, right?"

"No," Cinderella flatly replied.

Joe blinked several times, turning to stare at the platinumette with open confusion. "-Huh?" He vocalized said surprise. "Wha- Nobody told you?"

"Scarlet and Snow White only told myself and Rapunzel that you were alive, that you have been in the Ark this entire time, and that you sought us out the moment you knew we were all alive and well."

The man blinked owlishly, coughing into his fist and sighing. "Ah. Okay, well then, I suppose I should bring you up to speed on everything, then…"

Joe spared little detail when he recounted his journey, starting with waking at the hospital to Cinderella. He relayed all the hardships, twists and turns, and even the relationship issues he'd been having.

Cinderella's reaction to learning about the almost-relationship with Marian was muted. Her brow fell in concern upon learning of how he'd had to execute Marian for her own sake. She nodded and listened intently when being informed of their missions to the surface. Her brow started to furrow when Joe mentioned turning away the support he'd been offered.

Then, she was staring silently at the man when he finished speaking on how Anis had been verbally harming him. She remained silent, scrutinizing him intensely even as she actually peeled back from the man. An uncharacteristic display from her, to say the least.

"...You have been in a terrible mental state," Cinderella started slowly. "You have been struggling to keep your head above water. You have been trapped within your own mind, mired in a miasma of loss, fear, and imposter syndrome."

"Yet you've rejected every instance of Rapi attempting to offer you a shoulder as you offered to her, you've said not a word of your suffering to my father, who, despite your disagreements, was ultimately your best friend?"

Joe went very quiet as Cinderella's tone grew increasingly sharp with each word spoken. Her lone visible eye narrowed as she stared at him with notable intensity.

Cinderella continued. "You've said nothing to anyone? This entire time, you've not addressed Anis' attitude and the harm she's been causing you to anybody? Even when Anis herself remained by your side after the conflict with Modernia, even when she showed that she cares about you directly, hugged you, expressed joy at hearing you cared for her in turn…"

"You said nothing to her, or anyone else, about this apparent abuse she's been putting you through?"

Joe felt no small amount of pressure building around him, the air permeating their surroundings becoming charged. Cinderella, normally so boundlessly sweet, seemed increasingly aggravated.

After a period of silence, she continued. "Rapi, when confronted by Snow White over your state, admitted to being a horrible person. A terrible companion, that she's been hurting you and showing that she 'hasn't changed' since her days as Red Hood, where she was so terribly hostile and cruel towards you, even in our last days together."

"Yet, even all you just told me points towards her being all but desperate for your affection and acknowledgement. Nothing but loyal, an unbending companion that has to be pried from your side by force."

"She said that she 'forced' you to kill Marian. That she wouldn't let Anis do it for you." Cinderella cocked her head as her eye grew all the sharper. "Anis, who has supposedly been nothing but emotionally abusive towards you? Was that a lie? Did she not try to take the gun and spare you that horror?"

Ah- Oh.

"Rapi was only following protocol, as according to your own recollection. Anis was putting herself at great risk suggesting mercy killing Marian for you, as far as the Ark's understanding of how Corruption works. Both of these actions qualify as abuse to you? Rapi protecting Anis from her own bleeding heart, that is cruelty?" Cinderella demanded as she rose to her feet and rounded on Joe.

"If so," she continued. "Why did you never say as such? To anyone? Why would you allow this to go unaddressed? Why would you not confront either of them? Why would you just sit upon these things that have been stewing in your mind this entire time?"

Joe didn't reply. He just stared, his mind shorting out at the intense interrogation.

"Why would you have never brought this up to Rapi during all of your many moments alone together? Why would you never confront her with how horribly she'd hurt you? Why would you never ask if she'd meant to hurt you?"

"Why would you never ask if her cruelty was intended? Even after she showed how much she clearly loves you, to so longingly remain by your side, to the point of attempting to commit suicide for your sake."

That caused Joe to recoil in shock, his eyes going wide and his breath hitching as his jaw dropped, utterly flummoxed.

"Did that fail to register to you?" Cinderella leaned over, expression hardening yet more. "Exceed would claim her life if she used it. She knew this, you knew this. The moment it seemed that you were in imminent danger of being directly targeted by a Heretic, she did not hesitate to use it."

"She had no reason to believe that Snow White would be in any state to help her, nor that the Northern Base would have just so happened to have the materials on hand for Snow White to just barely save her life! As far as she could see, how could that decision have been anything but the ultimate sacrifice, for a chance to protect you!?"

"Yet, you'd leave her to set herself in such a head space, that she would admit her 'heartless sins' to Snow White as though she were some monster!? You would allow her to degenerate into such a state that she'd feel that she had to beg for your forgiveness?"

Cinderella was now looming over the man, wearing no small amount of genuine anger on her otherwise soft features as she did so.

"Has Anis really been verbally abusing you? Has she?" The twintailed woman inquired, projecting a deeply disconcerting aggravation. "Or are you projecting this offence onto her, so that you may further justify pushing her and Rapi away? All the while you seek comfort from another not even serving alongside you, this 'Privaty' that you have also told lies about Rapi?"

Ah- Ah. Oh.

Silence reigned for a good long while after that. Joe was too overwhelmed to even begin to formulate a reply.

So, Cinderella continued once again. "I love you, Joe," she started, her tone becoming pained, and deeply disappointed. "I love you with all of my heart, and that is why I will not tolerate such hideous behaviour from you. Not when I know that you are better than this."

"Not when I've seen you confront Dorothy and Scarlet about their harmful, team-breaking conflict to make them see reason without putting them down. Not when I've seen you admonish Red Hood in such a way as to make her cease crossing the line with an increasingly distressed Rapunzel."

"Not when I know you'd helped Lilith uplift Snow White, when she was terrified of so much as meeting Goddess before me, and sequestered herself away from all but you two…"

She leaned forward even more, tears starting to form in her eyes as she spoke through teeth grit together out of sheer frustration.

"Not when you fought so hard for me, not when you did all you could to grant me my wish, to give me happiness, before we'd even met! Because it was simply the right thing to do!"

Her breath came in ragged gasps, closing her eyes, she took a deep breath, gathered herself as best she could, and when she looked upon him again, she looked downright betrayed and heartbroken. "The man I fell in love with did all in his power to uplift those around him. Even when he didn't know where to begin, he blazed a trail forward."

"When he was struggling, when he was hurting, when he didn't know what to do, he allowed his most trusted allies to lift him up in turn. He would allow me to hug him, to listen to his woes and offer unconditional support. He would allow Dorothy to cradle him, to reassure him that he was still her Commander in our darkest hour. He would hear the gentle assurances of Rapunzel that encouraged him to aim to be someone better than he was."

"He would listen to the sharp, but well-intentioned critics of Scarlet. He would let Snow White tell him about how much he'd helped her grow, how she wouldn't be who she was if not for his help. He would hear the harsh, but earnest words of his best friend that only wanted him to open his eyes, and be the best version of himself he could be."

"But here? Now? Hearing this story? Hearing these complaints? Hearing how you've conducted yourself, seeing the wretched belief in your eyes? Seeing your expression harden and shift into such genuine anger, relaying these supposed offences so egregiously inflicted upon you by those you have sworn to support?"

Her breath hitched, and the tears started to fall, her expression becoming tortured as she gazed mournfully upon him.

"I almost don't see the man I fell in love with in you anymore."

It felt like a piece of Joe's soul had shrivelled up and died. Cinderella, of all people, of all people, to turn on him like this, to grab him by the scruff of his neck, and drive his face into his… Mistakes.

'Mistakes.' That sure was one way of describing them. No, he was underselling it. Cinderella's heart was broken by his behaviour, because she looked upon the Prince Charming she'd fallen in love with, and found something hideous gazing back at her.

She was right. She was right, and he knew it. He'd reflected upon how lesser he was compared to before, but, even still, he'd not grasped the sheer depths he'd fallen to.

Rapi had tried to be his rock, even despite her own problems. Why hadn't he allowed it?

Andersen was right there. He was terribly busy, but when was he ever not? He was literally the primary grand strategist of Goddess and the Nikkes serving as their support aboard the Avenger. Was he not busy then? Was he not busy when he was directing the spear in the war against humanity's extinction? When he was the General to Joe's Commander?

Anis had opened their relationship by trying to shoulder the burden of mercy killing Marian for him. She was difficult, yes, but she wasn't malicious. She might've been willing to at least try to help.

Yet, he didn't reach out. He kept everyone at arm's reach. He just sat in his darkened room, wallowing in his misery, refusing to actually confront any of it. Worse yet: he'd started projecting it onto others, instead of looking inwards and acknowledging that he'd done this to himself. It hit him like a brick, the realization of just how pathetic he'd been.

This was the so-called Legendary Commander? This cretin that refused help, that used his suffering as an excuse to lash out at others? What the fuck was wrong with him?

"...I'm sorry," the burly man started, his voice small and intensely regretful. "I-" His gaze rapidly wandered, yet he was looking at nothing in particular as he processed everything all at once. "I owe so many of you girls apologies. I owe you all so much better."

Cinderella didn't say anything. She just continued to stare, her cheeks streaked with tears and her breath coming in hitched gasps.

"Ellie," Joe, despite desperately wishing to retreat to a hole and die, to never meet anyone's gaze again, he met her heartbroken gaze. He wouldn't let himself look away, spare himself a moment of her disappointed sorrow. "You're right. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry."

Cinderella remained quiet, and after a few moments of extended quiet, she reached out, took one of the man's hands, and drew it out, settling his palm over her heart. It was beating hard, and fast. Her face was flushed.

"Do you know how much this hurts?" She asked, still staring into Joe's eyes. "How it feels? After a century apart, after waiting for you, after seemingly defying the reality that you had to be gone. After remaining loyal, faithful for so long, for this to be what returns to me? To feel my heart breaking like this, as my reward for refusing to give up on you against all reason?"

Joe's own heart would have fallen into a thousand pieces, had he not braced and hardened himself. It still hurt, but, in a way that only steeled his resolve to be better.

In her eyes, Cinderella could see that resolve finally reflected back at her, and after several long moments, she let out a shuddering sigh. Releasing Joe's hand, she extended her arms to him. She didn't move, though. Immediately, he knew that she was demanding that he be the one to reach out. That he show that he wouldn't make the girls be the one to do all the work, only to be met with a nonreciprocating wall.

He responded by extending his limbs, grasping her shockingly slight waist, and drawing her in. She circled her arms around his neck as he wrapped his around her midsection. Once again, she let out a shuddering breath as she set her cheek against his crown.

"Do better," she instructed him. "Be the man I fell in love with. Not… That hideous thing that was wearing your face."

Her words were horribly harsh. But, it was warranted. He deserved it. He nodded into her chest, declaring: "I will." He took a deep, bracing breath. "I'll start with Anis."

Cinderella didn't immediately reply to that, the two simply remaining there for a time. Eventually, she did peel herself away. She wasn't smiling, but she did seem hopeful. "Then start," she directed him, backing off entirely and watching him expectantly.

At that, the man rose to his feet, looked down at the woman that had set him straight, and nodded once. He hesitated only to say, "Thank you, Ellie." He then moved to return to the Command Centre.

Cinderella watched him go, and immediately, she saw a change in the way he carried himself. It wasn't even subtle. In some way, she caught a glimpse of the man that had stood alongside Goddess. Not the resentful face stealer that had been hopelessly miring in his own self-imposed rot.

"I'll be here," Cinderella whispered as she watched the man stride off to correct his latest mistake, hopefully, but the first step towards bettering himself into the figure she'd fallen in love with. "Once you've returned, I'll be right here. Waiting for my Prince Charming to lift me up, and carry me into the sunset."

"For you, I will wait, my Prince."



Emerging back into the Command Centre, Joe wasted no time in searching for the short-haired blonde. He quickly found her fluffy locks peeking out from her bunk, curled up in a ball beneath the sheets. It was just her, everyone else seemingly out.

Grimacing heavily, no small part of Joe wanted to avoid the awkward discomfort that would follow if he continued on. He stabbed that doubt and threw its body in a dumpster. It had no place here. It had no place when it came to being the Commander these girls deserved.

So, he gradually approached her. His steps quiet, measured. Anis noticed, regardless, given the way she shifted ever-so-slightly. She was upset. Of course she was. He stopped just short of spitting on her as he left. Over a misunderstanding. Over his own self-delusions.

Or, at least, half-delusions. Anis shouldn't have been projecting that doomer shit at everyone around her the way she did. He'd spoken to Rapi about it, however briefly. The long-haired blonde had learned to just ignore it. Avoid letting it get to her.

Joe owed Anis an apology, but he'd also talk to her about how negatively that could affect everyone around her. He didn't have to be awful, mean, or cruel. He just had to say it like it was, and affirm that she could trust him and her comrades to protect her and themselves in the field.

He came to a stop alongside her bed, and after a beat, he spoke up. "Anis," he started, voice gentle and quiet. "I'm sorry."

The Nikke stirred, stiffening at his words. She didn't reply, however, falling still just as quickly.

It was all Joe could do to continue, reaching up and setting his hand on the frame around the bunk, which was inset into the wall.

"I've been refusing help from any of you girls. Miring in my own shit, locking myself away from everyone else. Blocking everyone off. To the end point of hearing your… Pessimism, and hearing a personal attack against me. An affirmation that you only trusted me to get you killed… In the same way I got Marian killed, before, well, we knew better."

He wasn't there to discuss Modernia, so he'd brushed past it to focus on Anis.

"That was awful of me. Atrocious. I don't even have a good excuse for why I did it. I just… Did. It didn't feel good. It didn't justify anything. It just further enabled me to wallow in shit, look at you girls as though you were- I don't even know. I still tried to help you girls, be there, give you cause to trust me and feel safe. But I grew resentful over how alone I felt. Even though I was making a concerted effort to hold everyone at arm's length."

It sounded so fucking ridiculous when he said it out loud. Like, really? Seriously? That's what he'd been doing this entire time? Christ, he really had been utterly pathetic, hadn't he?

"I fucked up, basically. Looked at you like you were my enemy, like suddenly all of my self isolation was justified, when you were so obviously trying to show that you felt terrible for what happened. Even though it really wasn't your fault. You didn't do anything wrong, Anis. Please, don't think you did. You're great. Really, You're wonderful to have around. And… I'm happy you're here."

He released the frame, letting his hand fall back down to his side.

"So, I, yeah," he lightly shrugged. "I'll do better, be better. Otherwise, um, I suppose I'll just, leave you be-"

As soon as he took a step away, the blanket Anis had been hiding under was thrown aside, the girl lunging out and firmly grabbing onto Joe's arm, locking him in place.

Her eyes were bloodshot, her hair a frazzled mess. She hadn't been crying, but it had been damn close. She stared up at the man, her breath heavy and somewhat heightened.

She held him there, staring for a few long moments, before averting her gaze and looking more than a little sheepish. "U-uh. I, uh," She stammered by way of opening, clearing her throat. "D-don't go," she meekly asked, sniffling lightly as she did so. "I-I want to talk."

Joe blinked in surprise. Part of him had expected her to let him leave, if not run him off outright. But, if she actually wanted him to stick around, have a discussion with her, then, who the fuck was he to deny her that? To do anything less than give her anything she asked for at this point?

"Alright," he agreed as he stepped back, and settled down to sit on the edge of the blonde's bed. "We can talk. Whenever you want from now on."

Closing her eyes and taking a deep breath, Anis looked over at Joe, and inquired: "Um, first, Commander-"

"You can still just call me Joe, Anis," he assured her. "Unless, you don't feel comfortable anymore-"

"Joe," she corrected herself fairly firmly, locking eyes with him at least momentarily for seeming emphasis. "I-I just- before we start," She released his arm, and extended both of her own to him. "Can- can I get a hug?"

Ah. Well, that made him feel like even more of a piece of shit, if that was the first request she made of him despite the bitch baby tantrum he'd thrown earlier. But, if that's what she wanted. "Of fucking course-" he reached out and drew the blonde into a gentle hug- or what was gentle at first, before she latched onto him and squeezed. "-Any time you want, Anis. Hugs, talks, games, watching those shitty trashy animes of yours, just ask, and I'll gladly come running."

"My taste in anime is immaculate, you uncultured jackass!" Anis countered with a grumble, though there was no actual anger in her voice. "But, okay, I'll hold you to that promise, you hear?"

"Please do," Joe asked. "Don't ever let me fall back on my bullshit again. You deserve better than that."

Anis just hummed quietly in reply, just leaning into the hug for a few moments before she spoke up again, slightly playfully. "Am I still 'really nice to hug?'"

Joe let out an amused huff, squeezing the girl more intensely. "Squeezable? Check. Friend-shaped? Check. Nice and soft? Check, check, and check. Certifiably 'really nice to hug.'"

"I'm gonna choose to interpret 'squeezable, friend-shaped, and soft' as complimentary as possible," Anis lightly grumbled, though she didn't pull back from the hug in the least. "I'm… I'm really happy to be here too, Joe. I'm really happy that- that we don't hate each other."

At that, he smiled broadly. "You can be awful difficult, but you're pretty hard to hate by any reasonable metric."

Anis just snorted in reply.

This felt so much better than sitting around his room, feeling sorry for himself about all the bad shit that had happened. And all it took was being reminded of who he was by Cinderella, and remembering how friend-shaped and huggable Anis was. That she, and all of the girls that served with him, deserved nothing less than the best he could be.

He'd damn well never make the mistake of forgetting again.
 
Honestly i can see how this could easily lead to bad ending. Sure joe needed a wake up call as soft approach seem to not work on him but joe no matter what is just a normal person and there is simply a chance for him as a human to reject his own ugliness and simply spiral downwards deeper into denial.
 
Lmao "I almost don't see the man I fell in love with in you anymore." women the second after you tell her how you actually fell.
Yeah like, it worked here because Joe is a massive nikke simp but if he was in an even worse head space, that line could have backfired catastrophically.
 
Yeah I'm going to have to agree with the above somewhat with this one. Joe has less of an excuse seeing is he has video game Amnesia and not actual Amnesia but in cases of actual Amnesia you don't know what you don't know. Expecting you to know things you're supposed of learned and just picked up on as a small child and are now a complete zero again is kind of b*******. I semi understand Cinderella's point of view and I understand Joe's point of view that something is wrong, but you can't know what's wrong if you don't have half the f****** equation. Apologies for the harsh reaction but as someone with actual amnesia I've just been in Joe's position with everyone expecting me to know a million things, and I had no basis for any of what they're expecting me to know. It's somewhat worse with him because he's a military commander with zero training and zero actual knowledge expecting to know s*** most of the time and he's just barely recovering old memories. And to see him accept his faults is understandable he's now having the other half of the equation finally shown to him at the same time just to be accepting of the critique of someone who has no idea what's going on through his head is enraging. It's like watching other people tell a new guy to lead a crew, build, safety check, and furnish entire house just because someone else said he knew how to. You are not the same person you were before having amnesia in most cases, because even if you are one the lucky few to get actual memory back you are "watching" from an outsiders point of view.

Everyone is as fault for this clusterfuck(yes even Joe) but to have Cinderella just walk into this house of trauma (Joe and the nikkes) barge through the front door and go how dare you not be exactly like I expected you and just man the f****** this is ALL somehow your fault and for Joe to just accept it is, has made Cinderella probably my least favorite character in this entire thing and probably will remain so unless someone else takes her to task for the b******* she just threw at Joe.
 
Last edited:
Lmao "I almost don't see the man I fell in love with in you anymore." women the second after you tell her how you actually fell.

There's no "bad boys" for the girls here to go for

They're already too used to most Commanders(though there are female ones)being asswipes and most won't admit to finding em attractive

So Joe is all they got

And he's a good catch
 
There's no "bad boys" for the girls here to go for

They're already too used to most Commanders(though there are female ones)being asswipes and most won't admit to finding em attractive

So Joe is all they got

And he's a good catch

Hopefully with the ark of Joe's mental deterioration coming to an end(for Joe's sake I hope this is not just an upswing) his personality will start coming back and he'll be less of a wet towel. I understand how we got here with his mental state but I do miss the early Joe that wasn't two steps away from putting a bullet in his mouth.
 
Hopefully with the ark of Joe's mental deterioration coming to an end(for Joe's sake I hope this is not just an upswing) his personality will start coming back and he'll be less of a wet towel. I understand how we got here with his mental state but I do miss the early Joe that wasn't two steps away from putting a bullet in his mouth.

Angst gets annoying and a time waster

I dislike Pulp Heroes for being a little too the same and almost unflappable, but I like that they get into the action

Hopefully here, Chatterbox gets jumped, preferably focus on destroying him first before reaching Marian
 
tl:dr if you don't want to read: Good chapter, controversial but necessary angst, hope Joe develops and Ellie faces some backlash, but I look forward to what's next.

I say initially that I'm not going to jump on a bandwagon and solely call out Cinderella for what she said and claim Joe was intrinsically in the right for his prior actions. Both have their right to stand in the position they do, Cinderella viewing the modern Joe as an disappointment to the one she knew in the past. This contrasted to Joe who as a result of all the shit he's had to fight, learn, realise and experience in arguably a short amount of time, has resulted in him being a shut away or secluded.

Both are justified in their initial perspectives; Cinderella knew Joe his best, knows he can be altruistic and welcoming, even in the face of adversity, so why is it now he cannot be such? All whilst Joe is justified in shutting himself away and projecting an impulsive defense at pushing people away because naturally to him, it's likely the easiest way he can deal with the lingering information overload and stressful experiences he's been dealt with and recalled. These reactions are generally natural and I have no problem with such.

I think the problem so far as the narrative has been established, is that Joe is seemingly to blame for shutting himself away despite the frankly understandable reason for doing so, and so Cinderellas approach to such is off putting to a degree. I'm not disagreeing with Cinderella nor am I saying she's intrinsically wrong, she just doesn't see the bigger picture (again, Joe's fault if he showed some initiative and input for team care). That's not her fault, and she likely has had to deal with suffering herself; so a portion of tough love is expected. At the very least she seems devoted to that version of Joe, so much so she'll wait for him to return, which is better than any other alternative.

As it stands, I feel as if there's something off putting though to express a degree of anger to a man who is likely still attempting to comprehend two versions of the world he's found himself in; the past with which he is likely reliving and fully experiencing in traumatic flashbacks, of which establish the fact he failed as we've seen him consider a few times. All whilst he experiences the present/future world where he has to live through that perceived failure, witnessing the harsh realities of the current world as he climbs hurdle after hurdle, including Marian's death, the seemingly impossible war against the Rapture's, Dorothy's grip on Eden and so forth. Frankly, I'd hope Cinderella maybe gets held accountable for such harsh words, but likely she won't, Joe needs to face reality, and whilst I dislike the approach, I can admit it seems effective.
 
Everyone is as fault for this clusterfuck(yes even Joe) but to have Cinderella just walk into this house of trauma (Joe and the nikkes) barge through the front door and go how dare you not be exactly like I expected you and just man the f****** this is ALL somehow your fault and for Joe to just accept it is, has made Cinderella probably my least favorite character in this entire thing and probably will remain so unless someone else takes her to task for the b******* she just threw at Joe.

Except that's not what she said? She turned the questions around on Joe and put a mirror (heh) up to his opinion. Does Anis really hate you or are you projecting your selfhatred on her? Is Rapi really torturing you or is she trying to reach you? Why did you not seek help if you knew you were floundering?

All of these are good questions, the answers to which highlight how far gone he is. And make no mistake, Joe was pretty far gone.
 
Except that's not what she said? She turned the questions around on Joe and put a mirror (heh) up to his opinion. Does Anis really hate you or are you projecting your selfhatred on her? Is Rapi really torturing you or is she trying to reach you? Why did you not seek help if you knew you were floundering?

All of these are good questions, the answers to which highlight how far gone he is. And make no mistake, Joe was pretty far gone.

Yes and if that was all Joe was said to talk about her reaction would be more understandable though treated with all the nuance of a hammer. Joe filled her in on supposedly "everything" though and with that her reaction is honestly detestable. If there was a buildup of her reactions throughout the entire story maybe her just adding comments to show any emotion that weren't just silent judging then the final burst at the end wouldn't be, you've gone through some stuff and your pathetic for crumbling. Joe is not in the right for how he is starting to perceive anis, his relation with rapi complicate tho starting to sort it self out (so I'm having a hard time seeing the problem that isn't just Joe mentally falling apart). Unless we get Cinderella's perspective that maybe can excuse her actions her reaction is strange to put it bluntly because if she had "all" the events of all the things that's happened (unless everything she has said about her emotions for joe are a farce) her reaction should be far more sympathetic then just pull yourself by your bootstraps. I'm hoping it's just a case of unreliable narratorship and Joe was hiding quite a bit because otherwise Cinderella is probably one of the least empathetic people shown in the story with only Suyen beating her.
 
Last edited:
I think there's some sort of reading comprehension failure going on here for a few of y'all, because this was an absolutely necessary dressing down done by one of the people that knows Joe the best and was able to cut straight to the point of the matter.

Joe's been an ass to the people around him that care enough to try and help him, and even worse he's hurting those people in the process of his own misery.

Could it be seen as mean or harsh with how Cinderella said everything so bluntly? Sure, but this brutal honesty is needed. Joe has been wallowing for a long time now, trapped in a sort of self-defeating cycle where he's just keeping himself miserable by refusing any perceived help aimed his way even if he desperately needs it. He was taking things like Anis' pessimism in the worst possible light for example, seeing it as personal attacks upon himself and his problems while essentially shutting his mouth and not trying to communicate how it was affecting him. He bottled in all of his problems and was just letting them pile up while feeling worse and worse without trying to reach out for help and, in fact, actively refusing to let people in which lead to him feeling more isolated in his issues. Like, seriously, reread what Cinderella is saying to Joe.

She is putting a metaphorical mirror up to him and forcing him to actually look at his situation and the things that have happened to him without the constant dark cloud that's been lingering over his head. Was Anis purposely hurting him? Was Rapi being purposely cruel to him back then? Or was he so caught up in own stress and problems that he assumed as such and let himself be even more miserable about it? Cinderella wants him to be better, knows he can be better, and she is pushing him to be the person that she knows that he can be by not allowing Joe to keep sitting there in his own head. While yes sometimes a soft touch can be nice, when you're in such a wicked mental state having someone be objective and to the point with you without coddling you can be infinitely more useful and needed.

She's not saying that he's pathetic for his problems and what he's felt up till now, she even acknowledges that Joe's been in a bad place for a while now matter of fact. However, Cinderella is also saying that Joe can be better and that this hateful, or at least spiteful and miserable, person isn't who he is and that it hurts to see the person she loves a literal shell of himself. Yes, Joe's been through a lot, but she knows that he can get through it and this issues and what he's been through do not justify how he's been to those around him and how he's been to himself.

Cinderella wants him to be better, and if her putting a boot to his ass to get him in gear is what gets Joe to be the person she knows he can be than so be it.

If you think it's tough love, well it is, but this is in no way her acting unempathetic. Cinderella cares a lot about him, and I can't see how that doesn't get across.

Anyways, the chapter was really good Baka, this was a step in the right direction for Joe to heal and while it'll likely be slow he's got people in his corner and someone unwilling to let him misery spiral so he'll get there I think.
 
Joe not only received exactly what he deserved from Cinderella, but he got off light considering the retelling of Joe's perspective failed to actually convey just how much of a pathetic little simpering worm cloying for the barest scrap of positive attention she can receive Rapi has become because of him.

Joe has been constantly offered companionship and understanding. Rapi has repeatedly attempted to stand up to the plate, only to have her attempts redirected back at her so that the man could avoid acknowledging his demons, even as he actively pushed her away and held her at arm's length. Actions which consistently made her feel like more of a useless parasite incapable of helping others than she already did.

Joe is not some little sad teenager that hasn't fully matured and doesn't know his place in the world yet. He's a grown ass man that has a history of being far and away better than he has been. He is a fully matured adult that has been isolating himself from anyone and everyone that could offer him a mote of support, engaging in increasingly anti-social behaviour while demonizing the people he claims to love and adore.

Demanding that he fulfill the bare goddamned minimum expected of a man of his age rather than behaving like a moody teenager isn't unreasonable. He's been behaving like a spoiled child holding his breath instead of putting in anything resembling a fraction of effort to make his situation better, and even actively preventing those around him from trying to offer him a hand.

It has gotten to the point where he doesn't deserve the soft touch. He's rejected the soft touch at every possible opportunity so he could curl up in a hole in the ground and bemoan the cruelty of the world and feel sorry for himself. Joe has been acting like a pathetic little shit, and a harsh dressing down from a woman that knows he can do better, and did do better, under the infinitely more stressful circumstances of an active world war of extinction, whereupon he very literally had every eye in the world fixed squarely on him with the expectations of saving all of mankind, no less, is the bare minimum of harshness he deserved.

He's lucky that Cinderella wasn't fully aware of just how badly Joe's fucked up Rapi when that conversation happened. And he's really lucky that Andersen wasn't there to hear about all of this either. If Andersen had been there, Joe would've promptly gotten his ass rightfully beaten black and blue for treating the girls that should be able to place all of their trust in him the way he has.

Being sad is no excuse for the sort of behaviour Joe has been displaying. Cinderella's holding Joe up to a standard that he himself previously set under far more demanding circumstances is no indictment against her. It's nothing but a mark of how much she cares for this man who she will not allow to doom spiral for the sake of looking good and giving him an undeserved pat on the ass over rocking the boat.

The world doesn't give a shit that he's sad. People will die if he doesn't man up and get his shit together. Ingrid was correct in chapter 11, and she's still correct here. Joe has problems. He needs to work through his problems. He needs to let people in, which only started to happen when Cinderella forced him to acknowledge what he'd become. This is not a matter that can be allowed to stew and simmer for the sake of not being mean.

The fact that Cinderella continues to love him, clings onto hope that he can get better, and immediately put in the work to start making him better after a literal century apart is nothing short of a fairy tale-esque display of her boundless loyalty that is the stuff legends are made of. When faced with someone that is better than you deserve reaching out to lift you up, you don't cry and complain about how unfair these expectations placed upon you are and that you should be accepted as being perfect just the way you are. You nut the fuck up and become worthy of their love.

Simple as.
 
Last edited:
Apologies it seems I've been focusing too much on the Amnesia that he's been suffering through that still doesn't seem to have been resolved, and that he truly just has a video game Amnesia unlike what was mostly portrayed in the beginning of the story.

Though I will argue that rapi and private (for the 3-5 scenes shes been in) are only people in this story that have made more than a moment of effort, the other characters have been mostly non-existent in the presence of Joe other just being mentioned for quite a few chapters, till the last 4-5 at least.

Overall I do genuinely like your writing but this last chapter is just not treated with the same in-depthness and nuance of mental degradation than most of the others have been. And apparently perceiving the story through an entirely different lens than your intention through most of it, apologies.
 
Last edited:
It's interesting how protective they are of each other without aby exceptions. On the one hand that's very cute. On the other potential for alienation of each other is so fucking strong that it can be observed from the orbit.

Funny how my brain ignored all that angst and I didn't even registered what's wrong at all until I read comments and comprehended it intellectually. Drugs are fun, especially prescribed.
 
Joe not only received exactly what he deserved from Cinderella, but he got off light considering the retelling of Joe's perspective failed to actually convey just how much of a pathetic little simpering worm cloying for the barest scrap of positive attention she can receive Rapi has become because of him.

Joe has been constantly offered companionship and understanding. Rapi has repeatedly attempted to stand up to the plate, only to have her attempts redirected back at her so that the man could avoid acknowledging his demons, even as he actively pushed her away and held her at arm's length. Actions which consistently made her feel like more of a useless parasite incapable of helping others than she already did.

Joe is not some little sad teenager that hasn't fully matured and doesn't know his place in the world yet. He's a grown ass man that has a history of being far and away better than he has been. He is a fully matured adult that has been isolating himself from anyone and everyone that could offer him a mote of support, engaging in increasingly anti-social behaviour while demonizing the people he claims to love and adore.

Demanding that he fulfill the bare goddamned minimum expected of a man of his age rather than behaving like a moody teenager isn't unreasonable. He's been behaving like a spoiled child holding his breath instead of putting in anything resembling a fraction of effort to make his situation better, and even actively preventing those around him from trying to offer him a hand.

It has gotten to the point where he doesn't deserve the soft touch. He's rejected the soft touch at every possible opportunity so he could curl up in a hole in the ground and bemoan the cruelty of the world and feel sorry for himself. Joe has been acting like a pathetic little shit, and a harsh dressing down from a woman that knows he can do better, and did do better, under the infinitely more stressful circumstances of an active world war of extinction, whereupon he very literally had every eye in the world fixed squarely on him with the expectations of saving all of mankind, no less, is the bare minimum of harshness he deserved.

He's lucky that Cinderella wasn't fully aware of just how badly Joe's fucked up Rapi when that conversation happened. And he's really lucky that Andersen wasn't there to hear about all of this either. If Andersen had been there, Joe would've promptly gotten his ass rightfully beaten black and blue for treating the girls that should be able to place all of their trust in him the way he has.

Being sad is no excuse for the sort of behaviour Joe has been displaying. Cinderella's holding Joe up to a standard that he himself previously set under far more demanding circumstances is no indictment against her. It's nothing but a mark of how much she cares for this man who she will not allow to doom spiral for the sake of looking good and giving him an undeserved pat on the ass over rocking the boat.

The world doesn't give a shit that he's sad. People will die if he doesn't man up and get his shit together. Ingrid was correct in chapter 11, and she's still correct here. Joe has problems. He needs to work through his problems. He needs to let people in, which only started to happen when Cinderella forced him to acknowledge what he'd become. This is not a matter that can be allowed to stew and simmer for the sake of not being mean.

The fact that Cinderella continues to love him, clings onto hope that he can get better, and immediately put in the work to start making him better after a literal century apart is nothing short of a fairy tale-esque display of her boundless loyalty that is the stuff legends are made of. When faced with someone that is better than you deserve reaching out to lift you up, you don't cry and complain about how unfair these expectations placed upon you are and that you should be accepted as being perfect just the way you are. You nut the fuck up and become worthy of their love.

Simple as.
Hey mind if I take some of the arguments here to post on SB? I am sick of their Cinderella slander thinking Joe needs a damn hug box.

Now I agree a softer approach could have been reached but we have been in this depression spiral with Joe for awhile now and I kinda agree with you on what was said.

It's just I dont enjoy my girl Cinderella getting slandered as if she was a snake.
 
Honestly I thought Joe would have started to get his shit together by now after his conversation with Ingrid way back. Haven't been keeping up with this story too much and just recently checked back in. His situation is sort of a Shinji one I suppose, but Shinji at least had the defense of being an actual emotionally unstable teenager. Nothing really too terrible was said Cinderella just told him to get his shit together. His job is too important for him to keep acting in a downward spiral.
 
Hey mind if I take some of the arguments here to post on SB? I am sick of their Cinderella slander thinking Joe needs a damn hug box.

Now I agree a softer approach could have been reached but we have been in this depression spiral with Joe for awhile now and I kinda agree with you on what was said.

It's just I dont enjoy my girl Cinderella getting slandered as if she was a snake.

The thing is, those people defending Joe seem like the same kind of people who want Joe to be like the game's MC.

What Joe did was show his weaknesses, the pressure, tension, mental issues, and more from everything that's happening in the Nikke world, from Marian to the Harmony Cube mission and how his problems are harming the girls.

Joe isn't like the game's MC, who literally lives through horrors and remains cool as a cucumber in an illogical and incoherent way. Because seriously, it almost seems unreal for the MC to stay cool with everything he's been through, as if nothing bad is happening to him, not to mention the way he treats Nikke women in an idealized way, like "there are no bad Nikkes."

Back on the Cinderella topic, what she did was simply bring some sense into him. If you, Bakasmurf, or anyone here suffers from PTSD, surely someone would also tell you the same thing Cinderella told Joe to help him.
 
Joe not only received exactly what he deserved from Cinderella, but he got off light considering the retelling of Joe's perspective failed to actually convey just how much of a pathetic little simpering worm cloying for the barest scrap of positive attention she can receive Rapi has become because of him.

Joe has been constantly offered companionship and understanding. Rapi has repeatedly attempted to stand up to the plate, only to have her attempts redirected back at her so that the man could avoid acknowledging his demons, even as he actively pushed her away and held her at arm's length. Actions which consistently made her feel like more of a useless parasite incapable of helping others than she already did.

Joe is not some little sad teenager that hasn't fully matured and doesn't know his place in the world yet. He's a grown ass man that has a history of being far and away better than he has been. He is a fully matured adult that has been isolating himself from anyone and everyone that could offer him a mote of support, engaging in increasingly anti-social behaviour while demonizing the people he claims to love and adore.

Demanding that he fulfill the bare goddamned minimum expected of a man of his age rather than behaving like a moody teenager isn't unreasonable. He's been behaving like a spoiled child holding his breath instead of putting in anything resembling a fraction of effort to make his situation better, and even actively preventing those around him from trying to offer him a hand.

It has gotten to the point where he doesn't deserve the soft touch. He's rejected the soft touch at every possible opportunity so he could curl up in a hole in the ground and bemoan the cruelty of the world and feel sorry for himself. Joe has been acting like a pathetic little shit, and a harsh dressing down from a woman that knows he can do better, and did do better, under the infinitely more stressful circumstances of an active world war of extinction, whereupon he very literally had every eye in the world fixed squarely on him with the expectations of saving all of mankind, no less, is the bare minimum of harshness he deserved.

He's lucky that Cinderella wasn't fully aware of just how badly Joe's fucked up Rapi when that conversation happened. And he's really lucky that Andersen wasn't there to hear about all of this either. If Andersen had been there, Joe would've promptly gotten his ass rightfully beaten black and blue for treating the girls that should be able to place all of their trust in him the way he has.

Being sad is no excuse for the sort of behaviour Joe has been displaying. Cinderella's holding Joe up to a standard that he himself previously set under far more demanding circumstances is no indictment against her. It's nothing but a mark of how much she cares for this man who she will not allow to doom spiral for the sake of looking good and giving him an undeserved pat on the ass over rocking the boat.

The world doesn't give a shit that he's sad. People will die if he doesn't man up and get his shit together. Ingrid was correct in chapter 11, and she's still correct here. Joe has problems. He needs to work through his problems. He needs to let people in, which only started to happen when Cinderella forced him to acknowledge what he'd become. This is not a matter that can be allowed to stew and simmer for the sake of not being mean.

The fact that Cinderella continues to love him, clings onto hope that he can get better, and immediately put in the work to start making him better after a literal century apart is nothing short of a fairy tale-esque display of her boundless loyalty that is the stuff legends are made of. When faced with someone that is better than you deserve reaching out to lift you up, you don't cry and complain about how unfair these expectations placed upon you are and that you should be accepted as being perfect just the way you are. You nut the fuck up and become worthy of their love.

Simple as.
Not to mention that Joe is just human, with his difficulties, problems, stress, and everything that comes with being the legendary commander, both before and now.
He's not the womanizing, idiotic commander from the game who walks around cool as a cucumber, acting as if nothing's happening. Unrealistically, that's what he's doing.

I'm sure those complaining about these Joe moments must be fans of Musan Pro and Nikke who want Joe to be like the game's MC.

And like you said, the way Cinderella clings to Joe despite what he's become is the perfect example of a fairy tale. Honestly, this Cinderella represents fairy tales better than the Cinderella in the game...
 
The thing is, those people defending Joe seem like the same kind of people who want Joe to be like the game's MC.

What Joe did was show his weaknesses, the pressure, tension, mental issues, and more from everything that's happening in the Nikke world, from Marian to the Harmony Cube mission and how his problems are harming the girls.

Joe isn't like the game's MC, who literally lives through horrors and remains cool as a cucumber in an illogical and incoherent way. Because seriously, it almost seems unreal for the MC to stay cool with everything he's been through, as if nothing bad is happening to him, not to mention the way he treats Nikke women in an idealized way, like "there are no bad Nikkes."

Back on the Cinderella topic, what she did was simply bring some sense into him. If you, Bakasmurf, or anyone here suffers from PTSD, surely someone would also tell you the same thing Cinderella told Joe to help him.
Jesus in Cummander is indeed strong. Bakasmurf framed the most elaborate and amusing trope for game MC.
 
hat Joe did was show his weaknesses, the pressure, tension, mental issues, and more from everything that's happening in the Nikke world, from Marian to the Harmony Cube mission and how his problems are harming the girls.

Joe isn't like the game's MC, who literally lives through horrors and remains cool as a cucumber in an illogical and incoherent way. Because seriously, it almost seems unreal for the MC to stay cool with everything he's been through, as if nothing bad is happening to him, not to mention the way he treats Nikke women in an idealized way, like "there are no bad Nikkes."

Back on the Cinderella topic, what she did was simply bring some sense into him. If you, Bakasmurf, or anyone here suffers from PTSD, surely someone would also tell you the same thing Cinderella told Joe to help him

I've never played the game nor seen much of it, this story is my only "interaction" with nikke, so all I have to work off is what is shown in story.

Joe living through all this horrors and his reactions is the reason for my own reaction to Cinderella's semi decent advise but blatantly cruel reaction.

No it is a common Trope in storys that does not work 7 times out of 10 in real life in "calm" environments (like the one we have in this chapter) in most situations you just end up with a dead friend in a week because they put a bullet in themselves if they're PTSD is from a military capacity or a noose for more civilian-induced, the remain 2 lead to deep resentment with one being miraculous. The actual percentages are even worse. The times/moments where such talk generally works is either with people who are not mentally near the endpoint, (Joe showing multiple signs of being near the endpoint with several cases of mental disorders building to it) intentionally seeking such advice or for people who are are in high stress situations such as combat or in the field where the brain starts working in a vastly foreign matter as a defense mechanism (see problem fix problem end of story).
 
Joe definitely needed that wakeup call, no matter how mean or harsh it seemed.
With how overwhelmed he is by everything he went straight into the mindset our society tries to push so hard in the last decades.
"Men must be strong. They can't show emotion. They can't show weakness." And so on.
He started bottling everything up inside, refused to accept the help offered and began to see everyone as the enemy. Extremely unhealthy.

Cinderella loves Joe to the point that seeing him do this to himself and others, hurts her so much that she can't see that person in front of her as Joe, who she knows is capable of being so much better under arguably worse conditions.

It's why she's the best person to give him this wakeup call.

Yes he has amnesia, and yes that sucks massively, but the problems stemming from there have the best chance of getting solved if he has a proper support network. Which he denies himself, and others in turn.

Cinderella isn't an idiot. She likely knows just how much it could backfire on her to do things this way, that she could be risking her relationship with Joe in its entirety. Yet it has to be done. The soft approach is not working, and no one else is as well suited to deal with this the harsh way. She loves him so much, that she's willing to risk losing him forever, just for the chance to get him into a better mindset. To get him to accept that there are people who care for him, that he has a support network, if only he would stop seeing them as the enemy, and accept their help.

Only then can he actually start to heal from what is going on with him.
 
Ah. Well, that made him feel like even more of a piece of shit, if that was the first request she made of him despite the bitch baby tantrum he'd thrown earlier.
Am I forgetting something or did he definitely not throw any kind of tantrum, much less a "bitch baby" one? All I remember is him stomping away after distinctly not freaking out.
 
Am I forgetting something or did he definitely not throw any kind of tantrum, much less a "bitch baby" one? All I remember is him stomping away after distinctly not freaking out.
He internally worked himself up about how Rapi and Anis were both abusing him over the course of the story, when they did no such thing. That is what he was referring to, the fact that he was ultimately making excuses to (metaphorically) cry about how hard he has it and how he's all alone without real friends.

He may not of thrown a tantrum in the sense of throwing things around, kicking wailing, and screaming, but he was effectively doing so in his own mind, and was using harsh language on himself as a form of quiet penance.
 
I've never played the game nor seen much of it, this story is my only "interaction" with nikke, so all I have to work off is what is shown in story.

Joe living through all this horrors and his reactions is the reason for my own reaction to Cinderella's semi decent advise but blatantly cruel reaction.

No it is a common Trope in storys that does not work 7 times out of 10 in real life in "calm" environments (like the one we have in this chapter) in most situations you just end up with a dead friend in a week because they put a bullet in themselves if they're PTSD is from a military capacity or a noose for more civilian-induced, the remain 2 lead to deep resentment with one being miraculous. The actual percentages are even worse. The times/moments where such talk generally works is either with people who are not mentally near the endpoint, (Joe showing multiple signs of being near the endpoint with several cases of mental disorders building to it) intentionally seeking such advice or for people who are are in high stress situations such as combat or in the field where the brain starts working in a vastly foreign matter as a defense mechanism (see problem fix problem end of story).
The fact that you said you literally know nothing about Nikke and have never played the game just makes you look bad and your argument is invalid...
 
So, I spent some time letting the latest chapter sit in my head. Thought about it on and off. Did I see Joe's breakdown coming? Not really. Sure, there were signs of him being not well mentally but I don't think we really understood the gravitas behind the girls hyping him up and their devotion to him. I had considered it to be merely a product of both their time and the gacha setting. I was wrong. As were, or maybe still are, some of you in the comments. And that's okay. I, too, was lost in the sauce.

The commander really was and is one hell of a man. Got pulled out of his severe meltdown and accepted help. That takes an amount of character strength we just hadn't associated with him yet. Why? I can't say for certain I'm afraid, sorry. An example for those who don't believe me.

Self destructive behavior is hard to notice and harder still to change. Think of an intervention for addiction or intensive therapy for the severely depressed. That's the amount of effort required for people to simply consider changing their ways. Unfortunately, it's really only the girls who knew him at their best who could really pull him out of it. Cause they were the only ones who knew how far he had fallen from grace. Because even his not-quite-worst-but-still-pretty-bad state of mind was by miles better than the Nikkes were used to.

I believe they considered him the legendary commander because when the world was essentially fucked already he managed to dig out just a little more good each time. A few things I could remember from the story so far: Slayed a tyrant by himself when he was probably alone behind enemy lines or the last survivor, when England had fallen to the Raptures he managed to reconquer London and hand it to a child they called Queen, when humanity pushed the elevator and was found wanting he was there to pick up the pieces; when had a choice between his own survival or the loyalty to his girls and mankind he paid the ultimate price!

They looked to him because he reminded them of the virtues and values the Raptures had taken from them. Because when everyone else fell he was the first to rise. Because when they could rise no longer he died for their future. He is the goat and I will not stand for this slander any longer! My boy is healing!

...we are not beating the harem allegations anymore, though. That shit is set in stone, let me tell ya. Imagine when they meet Dorothy and she laments and begs for his forgiveness, for mercy with tears spilling down her face and he hits her with the "You're as beautiful as the day I lost you". Done. Married that afternoon with 3 children and a dog.

Personally, I think a chapter from Andersons POV would really help to put some doubts to rest and really cement Joe's character change. Would be nice to see that old dog feel like a puppy again and have him meet with girl again for sure!

Again. Great story. Really used the setting and made it better. Yeah, pretty good, I'd say. I'll take another 29 chapters and 3 OVAs to go and throw in a beach episode to make it a meal, please.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top