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OpenAI, DALL-E 2 and ChatGPT: Worse than I expected.

f0Ri5

Versed in the lewd.
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Right now, I see a lot of people panicking about this new software. Artists worrying about being replaced, writers worrying about being replaced etc.

So me being me, I thought—'hey, why dont I try to give myself a leg-up by trying out this thing? If it can make writing easier for me, then that's great.'

As you may have deduced from the title, my experience was... not that great. More than 'not that great' it was actually dogshit. Not hating on the guys that made this, it's incredible and obviously a W.I.P., but I do think people are either panicking like the world is ending when really, the current software isn't that powerful.

The creative writing stuff I produced is lackluster, and the art was pretty darn horrible. For example, I tried to produce an evil (hecate posessed) wonder woman art piece similar to the witching hour or tales from the dark multiverse. It was B.A.D. I mean holy hell. I'd have more success drawing the thing myself. When something more generic is requested, like just plain wonder woman, it's able to produce some decent stuff, but there's plenty of generic wonder woman pics available already.

https://labs.openai.com/s/kDVfbd1WenOC9guwNCPA80Fq

As for chatGPT, the best way I can describe it is like those '300 words or less' creative writing assignments we had to do in high school. It's really, really not suited for writing +100 000 word novels. Theoretically, it should be possible if you keep prompting it correctly (and the constant prompting is so annyong and time consuming that I eventually went back to just writing it myself), but the final product will ultimately be inferior to a human written novel. The major reason for this is because it's unable to create a plot that long or set things up that only pay off later, which is, you know, the whole point of any creative writing piece that's not a short story.

It's also incredibly basic. You won't be getting any thought provoking stuff like victor frankl's 'Man's search for meaning.'

If you think about how it works, it makes sense. Ultimately, AI is a tool for mass-producing things that already exist. The reason why it's capable of writing or producing art in the first place is because it's 'trained' on the massive amount of stuff that's out there on the internet already. For any writer with ambition, what they want isn't to make something that already exists, but something new and innovative. You don't make money and become successful by keeping the status-quo.

I've read some arguments in line with 'well, humans aren't really creative either, they just recombine stuff they've encountered to produce something that presents an illusion of creativity'. However, I don't agree. While humans also do that, we didn't come into existence knowing how to speak, write, build, paint etc. All those things were invented—the english language, the pyramids, math, the mona lisa...

If I can use an example like Deep Blue, the famous AI that defeated Kasparof and the other chess masters. While it may be capable of making an unexpected move, it will never know how to play chinese checkers, poker, monopoly or, idk, starcraft or something, unless people program it to do that.

TL;DR: I tried that stuff and it didn't work for me. I didn't intend for this to come off as derogatory as it did, the guys that made this are obviously awesome and there will definitely be some big changes because of this tech, but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people on the internet are making it out to be.
 
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AI uprising isn't going to be about them destroying us with weapons in the future... but with art and memes. Truly, we are in the darkest timeline.
 
The creative writing stuff I produced is lackluster, and the art was pretty darn horrible. For example, I tried to produce an evil (hecate posessed) wonder woman art piece similar to the witching hour or tales from the dark multiverse. It was B.A.D. I mean holy hell. I'd have more success drawing the thing myself. When something more generic is requested, like just plain wonder woman, it's able to produce some decent stuff, but there's plenty of generic wonder woman pics available already.
That's cause you're using

1) the heavily nerfed online shared Dall-E model. Stable Diffusion is much more open source with many different trained models for download. Do you have at least a 4GB card like a GTX 1050 or GTX 1650? You can run it locally in low memory mode, but only 6 GB VRAM is needed for all features. It used to demand 8 GB. This thing is improving at breakneck speed.

Try stablediffusionweb, and be more verbose with the prompts.
For example, prompts like
beautiful realistic frank frazetta style high quality 4k evil version villain costume of wonder woman menacing black whole body covered bodysuit sneering

may eventually get you results like:
ww-gen1.jpg
ww-gen2.JPG

And that if you were only generating things at low resolution online to mine for ideas.

2) ChatGPT is tremendously boring to talk to. Try http://beta.character.ai. Though chatbots with poor memory, they are much more interesting and lively.

---

As both writer and artist, AI is tremendously threatening but also significantly interesting that they would immensely help my workload - if I should continue to have a workload.
 
That's cause you're using

1) the heavily nerfed online shared Dall-E model. Stable Diffusion is much more open source with many different trained models for download. Do you have at least a 4GB card like a GTX 1050 or GTX 1650? You can run it locally in low memory mode, but only 6 GB VRAM is needed for all features. It used to demand 8 GB. This thing is improving at breakneck speed.

Try stablediffusionweb, and be more verbose with the prompts.
For example, prompts like
beautiful realistic frank frazetta style high quality 4k evil version villain costume of wonder woman menacing black whole body covered bodysuit sneering

may eventually get you results like:
ww-gen1.jpg
ww-gen2.JPG

And that if you were only generating things at low resolution online to mine for ideas.

2) ChatGPT is tremendously boring to talk to. Try http://beta.character.ai. Though chatbots with poor memory, they are much more interesting and lively.

---

As both writer and artist, AI is tremendously threatening but also significantly interesting that they would immensely help my workload - if I should continue to have a workload.

Thanks for the reply. Those images are certainly better, but not really what I'm looking for either. Although IK you were just giving an example.

I guess my point is, is it worth the effort of prompting these things over and over when you can just google or go on pinterest and get what you want within like 10 clicks. For both ChatGPT and nightcafe, DALL-E or whatever, it's not really worth the hassle as of right now. When it gets better, its possible my answer will change, but as of right now there are def a lot of early adopter problems
 
Thanks for the reply. Those images are certainly better, but not really what I'm looking for either. Although IK you were just giving an example.

I guess my point is, is it worth the effort of prompting these things over and over when you can just google or go on pinterest and get what you want within like 10 clicks. For both ChatGPT and nightcafe, DALL-E or whatever, it's not really worth the hassle as of right now. When it gets better, its possible my answer will change, but as of right now there are def a lot of early adopter problems
Well, multitasking in general.

If you have a big enough monitor just prod the thing every few seconds or so while you're reading the forums in another window. Reading fullscreen SB/SV/QQ even on 1080p kind of wastes space and expands the text too wide, forcing the eye to sweep left to right instead of paragraph chunks that can be instantly comprehended without eyestrain.

A lot of the hassle for art is simply starting and thinking up a good pose or layout.

--

For people who already know anatomy, this is fine.

For artists who hate drawing backgrounds, this is a godsend. I previously had to learn 3D modeling just to render backgrounds so I don't have to waste time doing this myself. A lot of korean and chinese webtoons and even manga use 3D models now instead of drawn art. There are render options to make them look 2D, and I do not consider this as "cheating" in order to keep to a brisk schedule.

For a beginner who traces things, this can be terrible for their understanding of art. It's also kind of why art teachers do not advise students to start with drawing anime-style.
 
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Yes, cause stock images don't give you what you want, but with Ai you can actually get you want. + It's not that hard to learn how to use it.
 
Well, multitasking in general.

If you have a big enough monitor just prod the thing every few seconds or so while you're reading the forums in another window. Reading fullscreen SB/SV/QQ even on 1080p kind of wastes space and expands the text too wide, forcing the eye to sweep left to right instead of paragraph chunks that can be instantly comprehended without eyestrain.

A lot of the hassle for art is simply starting and thinking up a good pose or layout.

--

For people who already know anatomy, this is fine.

For artists who hate drawing backgrounds, this is a godsend. I previously had to learn 3D modeling just to render backgrounds so I don't have to waste time doing this myself. A lot of korean and chinese webtoons and even manga use 3D models now instead of drawn art. There are render options to make them look 2D, and I do not consider this as "cheating" in order to keep to a brisk schedule.

For a beginner who traces things, this can be terrible for their understanding of art. It's also kind of why art teachers do not advise students to start with drawing anime-style.

That makes sense. I also heard its pretty good at writing code, news articles, solving math problems and so on
 
That makes sense. I also heard its pretty good at writing code, news articles, solving math problems and so on
Oh yeah, ChatGPT has been very helpful to me in that regard. I had it write up an example Inventory system for a Twine-based CYOA game, for example.

It worked.
 
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I didn't intend for this to come off as derogatory as it did, the guys that made this are obviously awesome and there will definitely be some big changes because of this tech, but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people on the internet are making it out to be.

Its because you don't see the big picture. Right now to you it's a toy or a tool, but easily with 2-3 generations, kids are going to have stuffed toys that act like the family pet.

I was born in the 90s, I saw tv evolve, phones go from house phones to touch screen standard, dial up internet to 5G, blockbuster to Netflix, gaming go from blocky pixels to constantly online multiplayer experiences in 4k. Social Media Companies worth billions nearly overnight. Cars going from hard lines to fully electric and smooth curves. Headphones from big thick cords and bulky earmuffs to wireless pods. Chicken meat grown from a plant. Watches that regulate health and report severe injuries to health services.

All that in like 30 years.

AI is limited now and even still it can do citation, cover letters, schedule restaurant orders, and offer a preliminary diagnosis.

Think the next 30 years.

Those npcs and quest givers in games? Try having a organic and unique experience every playthru. Think Skyrim with people acknowledging you as a demigod without prerecorded phrases. Or how about porn with something uniquely created to fit your tastes and moods.

AI can't create something brand new, but AI can access and read literally every single human work on a database and construct something undistinguishable from new. We can't read every story in the world- but AI can and will.

Any market for derivative work is going to shrink when AI can produce say generic Harry Potter in Slytherin fanfic based off stories with at least 10k words and 300 reviews. What fanfic writers do is fairly formulaic even in crossovers. Inputting a setting, using a cast of characters, selecting choice scenes and story beats, constructing an arc, developing a character based upon source material and popular fan renditions, AI can do all of that. Without the writers block, delays or patreon wall. Splash Art and such will be automated. The potential is all there and seemly accomplishable within our lifetimes.

It's only a matter of time. Saying it's not a big deal is fairly small minded when we are witnessing the next step from Alexa, Siri and Cortanna.
 
Its because you don't see the big picture. Right now to you it's a toy or a tool, but easily with 2-3 generations, kids are going to have stuffed toys that act like the family pet.

I was born in the 90s, I saw tv evolve, phones go from house phones to touch screen standard, dial up internet to 5G, blockbuster to Netflix, gaming go from blocky pixels to constantly online multiplayer experiences in 4k. Social Media Companies worth billions nearly overnight. Cars going from hard lines to fully electric and smooth curves. Headphones from big thick cords and bulky earmuffs to wireless pods. Chicken meat grown from a plant. Watches that regulate health and report severe injuries to health services.

All that in like 30 years.

AI is limited now and even still it can do citation, cover letters, schedule restaurant orders, and offer a preliminary diagnosis.

Think the next 30 years.

Those npcs and quest givers in games? Try having a organic and unique experience every playthru. Think Skyrim with people acknowledging you as a demigod without prerecorded phrases. Or how about porn with something uniquely created to fit your tastes and moods.

AI can't create something brand new, but AI can access and read literally every single human work on a database and construct something undistinguishable from new. We can't read every story in the world- but AI can and will.

Any market for derivative work is going to shrink when AI can produce say generic Harry Potter in Slytherin fanfic based off stories with at least 10k words and 300 reviews. What fanfic writers do is fairly formulaic even in crossovers. Inputting a setting, using a cast of characters, selecting choice scenes and story beats, constructing an arc, developing a character based upon source material and popular fan renditions, AI can do all of that. Without the writers block, delays or patreon wall. Splash Art and such will be automated. The potential is all there and seemly accomplishable within our lifetimes.

It's only a matter of time. Saying it's not a big deal is fairly small minded when we are witnessing the next step from Alexa, Siri and Cortanna.

i think my post made it very clear i was talking about the current AIs and specifically in relation to creative writing. given how oversaturated our fiction is with sci-fi AI centered stuff and how elon and every other tech guru seems incapable of talking about anything else, do you really think anyone would be ignorant of the long term implications of the tech?

or maybe its just you assuming youre smarter than whoever you happen to be talking to...? i think the latter is more likely than the former.
 
or maybe its just you assuming youre smarter than whoever you happen to be talking to...? i think the latter is more likely than the former.

Let's take a step back.

Open AI, the developers of chatgpt has only been in existence for a little over 7 years. Now that they have proven a proof of concept, investment is rocketing up. Competitors have appeared. I believe they have released GPT-4, in the last couple of weeks.

The AI industry is ramping up fast. I'm not sure when the next dead end will appear, but absent a lack of processing power, people can just refine and upgrade the learning and human interactive process. Already Microsoft is incorporating ai into its next iteration of the Bing search engine. I believe there are already talks with congress with security features and what-not.

The now is pretty exciting but yeah, if I sound like I'm being condescending or disrespectful, I apologize.
 
Actually, I have found chatGPTas nice and useful tool for writing. I mean it find grammar and spelling errors better than Grammarly, although using to locate plot hole and not hit and miss, but also requires one to enter context in every post, which limits tokens. It was also helpful in phrasing some speeches as appropriate professional ones. (I don't if the actual colonel would talk like that but it sounds good). And it's strangely useful when planning the plot. It will just mirror most of what you say, with some suggestions, many of which could be bad, but I had found them quite helpful. Although not so much when coding. It does save time, but it tends to produce code with errors unless it is something that is seen quite often on Stack Exchange.

Also, it is perfect for research, rather having to spend a lot of time searching online, I could just ask. Not sure that answer is correct though.THat may be a problem for serious research, but not when having an idea to incorporate in plot.

A funny thing happened on AO3. I have been reposting my jumpchain fic there, from the thread here in the NSW section. So the last two chapters have been flagged as done with AI. Those chapters have been written at start of last year. One, longer one I could sort of understand. I have done a little experiment, using chatGPT to proofread it, and change a style a little (not something I plan to do again, it was lot of work, and this a hobby), but other was totally unchanged and quite short. (its just an interlude),

Still I from experience something like is helpful tool, not a replacement for writers, although skills needed for creative writing may change a little.

As for chatGPT, the best way I can describe it is like those '300 words or less' creative writing assignments we had to do in high school. It's really, really not suited for writing +100 000 word novels. Theoretically, it should be possible if you keep prompting it correctly (and the constant prompting is so annyong and time consuming that I eventually went back to just writing it myself), but the final product will ultimately be inferior to a human written novel. The major reason for this is because it's unable to create a plot that long or set things up that only pay off later, which is, you know, the whole point of any creative writing piece that's not a short story.
That is because token limit. That is simple scaling problem, which is going to go up rather fast.

But more relevant problem would be that human input, it going to get strange very soon. Here an example:
Me:

Write the beging of horror novel. It should involve witch, a hellhound, and two protagonist, bot students. Start with firt intro scene:



In the small, fog-shrouded town of Blackwood, whispers of the supernatural were as familiar as the cawing of crows at dawn. Many dismissed them as mere superstitions, the result of overactive imaginations and folklore passed down through generations. Yet, there were others who knew the truth: that beneath the surface of the ordinary, an ancient, malevolent force stirred.
It was a rainy evening when the story of two unsuspecting students, Elliot and Amelia, began to intertwine with that of the witch and her hellhound. The local university, Blackwood College, was nestled among the thick woods at the edge of town, and it was there that the two friends found themselves, studying for their upcoming finals in the dimly-lit library.
As the rain poured down outside, the wind whistled through the cracks in the ancient building, creating an eerie soundtrack to their late-night study session. The darkness pressed against the windows, and the shadows played tricks on their eyes, making the library feel like a sinister labyrinth.
Elliot, a lanky young man with unkempt brown hair and glasses, glanced up from his textbook, rubbing his eyes to clear his vision. He looked over at Amelia, who was hunched over her notes, her fiery red hair cascading down her back. "I don't know about you, Amelia, but I can't focus anymore. Maybe we should call it a night?"
Amelia sighed, looking equally exhausted. "Yeah, you're probably right. I'm just worried about this history exam. I've heard Professor Aldridge is a real stickler."
As they packed their bags and prepared to leave the library, the wind howled louder, rattling the old wooden doors at the entrance. The atmosphere grew thicker with tension, as if an unseen presence was urging them to stay. They glanced at each other, sharing a moment of unease before pushing open the heavy doors and stepping out into the downpour.
The rain fell in icy torrents, soaking them to the bone in a matter of seconds. They hurried down the cobblestone path leading away from the library, their footsteps echoing through the empty campus. Elliot squinted through the rain, trying to discern the outline of the dormitory building in the distance.
"Do you feel that?" Amelia whispered, her voice barely audible over the storm.
"What?" Elliot asked, pausing for a moment.
"It's like... a presence. Something watching us."
Before Elliot could respond, the wind seemed to change direction, carrying with it a faint, haunting melody. The sound seemed to emanate from the woods surrounding the campus – a voice, singing a mournful, ancient lullaby that sent shivers down their spines.

Me:

next part please:



Elliot and Amelia exchanged uneasy glances, instinctively huddling closer together. The haunting melody grew louder, as if beckoning them towards the shadowy woods. Despite their fear, they felt a magnetic pull, a curiosity that couldn't be ignored.
"Should we... check it out?" Elliot asked hesitantly, staring into the darkness.
Amelia bit her lip, torn between curiosity and common sense. "I don't know. It could be dangerous, but... it's so strange, isn't it?"
As if on cue, the wind picked up again, and the song grew louder, more insistent. They shared a determined nod, their decision made. Together, they ventured off the cobblestone path, leaving the safety of the campus behind as they entered the ominous woods.
The rain continued to pour as they made their way through the tangled undergrowth, guided only by the eerie melody and the occasional flash of lightning. The deeper they went, the more unnerving the forest became. The shadows seemed to dance around them, and the twisted branches reached out like gnarled fingers, threatening to ensnare them.
With each step, the air grew colder, and the pressure in their chests intensified. Despite their fear, they pressed onward, drawn by the increasingly hypnotic song. As they pushed through a particularly dense thicket, they stumbled upon a small clearing. There, in the center, stood a figure shrouded in darkness.
As their eyes adjusted to the gloom, they realized the figure was an old woman, her silver hair cascading down her back like a silvery waterfall. Her eyes were black as coal, and her lips moved gracefully, uttering the haunting lullaby that had led them there.
Beside her, a massive, menacing creature crouched. Its fur was as black as midnight, its eyes glowing a fiery red that pierced the darkness. The beast seemed to be part dog, part wolf, and part something from the deepest, darkest corners of their nightmares. A hellhound.
Elliot and Amelia stood frozen, their hearts pounding in their chests as they stared at the witch and her hellhound. The old woman's lips curled into a sinister smile, and she raised a gnarled hand, beckoning them forward.
"Welcome, my dear children," she crooned, her voice like silk wrapped around jagged glass. "I've been waiting for you."
The two friends exchanged panicked glances, knowing they had stumbled upon something far more sinister than they could have ever imagined. They would have to rely on each other, on their courage and wit, to confront the ancient evil that now held them in its grasp. And so, the battle between darkness and light began, with the fate of Blackwood hanging in the balance.

Me:

I am on the edge. What happens next?



As the witch beckoned them forward, Elliot and Amelia hesitated, the instinct to flee battling the strange compulsion to approach. The hellhound snarled, its hot breath leaving trails of steam in the cold air. The old woman's smile widened, revealing a row of impossibly sharp teeth.
"Come now, don't be afraid," she purred. "I've been watching you both for some time. You possess gifts, you see, gifts that could be so much more powerful with my guidance."
Elliot and Amelia exchanged a disbelieving look. "Gifts?" Amelia whispered, her voice trembling.
"Yes, my dear. You both have the potential to master the ancient arts, the power to bend the elements and command the forces of nature. I can teach you, help you unlock your true potential." The witch's voice was like honey, but beneath her words, an undercurrent of menace remained.
Elliot shook his head, trying to clear the fog that threatened to cloud his mind. "We can't trust her, Amelia. We need to get out of here."
Amelia hesitated, her eyes flickering between the witch and her friend. She could sense the power within her, a dormant flame that the witch's words had fanned to life. But Elliot was right; there was something sinister about the witch and her hellhound, something that warned Amelia not to be swayed by her promises.
With a deep breath, Amelia took a step back, her decision made. "No, we won't be a part of this. Whatever you want from us, you won't get it."
The witch's eyes narrowed, and her voice grew cold. "You refuse me? You have no idea what you're passing up, child. The power I offer could change your lives. But if you insist on turning your backs on your birthright, so be it."
She raised her hands, and the air crackled with energy. The hellhound snarled, baring its fangs as it prepared to lunge. Just as the creature sprang forward, Amelia threw her arms out, and a burst of raw energy erupted from her, sending the hellhound flying back into the shadows.
Elliot stared in awe as Amelia's eyes shone with newfound power. "We need to go, now!" he shouted, grabbing her arm and pulling her back towards the woods. Amelia nodded, her heart pounding with a mixture of fear and exhilaration.
They ran blindly through the rain-soaked forest, their path illuminated by flashes of lightning. Behind them, the witch's enraged screams echoed through the trees, followed by the howls of her hellhound. As they burst from the woods onto the campus grounds, they knew their lives had changed forever.
The witch's words had awakened something within them, and it was clear that she wouldn't rest until she'd claimed their power for herself. Elliot and Amelia would have to learn to harness their newfound abilities, to stand together against the darkness that threatened to consume Blackwood. The battle had only just begun, and they knew that the witch and her hellhound would not be their last encounter with the supernatural forces that lurked in the shadows of their once peaceful town.

Not particularly inspiring?
 
Right now, I see a lot of people panicking about this new software. Artists worrying about being replaced, writers worrying about being replaced etc.
I too have read quite a bit about people panicking WRT the new software - some of it is IMO warranted and some is not.

As for chatGPT, the best way I can describe it is like those '300 words or less' creative writing assignments we had to do in high school. It's really, really not suited for writing +100 000 word novels. Theoretically, it should be possible if you keep prompting it correctly (and the constant prompting is so annyong and time consuming that I eventually went back to just writing it myself), but the final product will ultimately be inferior to a human written novel. The major reason for this is because it's unable to create a plot that long or set things up that only pay off later, which is, you know, the whole point of any creative writing piece that's not a short story.
Agreed, but please keep in mind that GPT is essentially a tokenizer system, that is, given tokens (words) [0 - N], predict the next token N + 1, plus or minus some statistics. It has no real memory or world-model (we think) at all. Yes the current GPTs (though 4 seems promising) cannot yet write whole novels, it has no right to do nearly as well as it does already.

It's also incredibly basic. You won't be getting any thought provoking stuff like victor frankl's 'Man's search for meaning.'
Und doch, it writes better idiomatic python than I do

Ultimately, AI is a tool for mass-producing things that already exist.
I have disagreements about this statement - but this gets into semantic weeds far beyond the scope of this forum.

I've read some arguments in line with 'well, humans aren't really creative either, they just recombine stuff they've encountered to produce something that presents an illusion of creativity'. However, I don't agree. While humans also do that, we didn't come into existence knowing how to speak, write, build, paint etc. All those things were invented—the english language, the pyramids, math, the mona lisa...
Human brains are also significantly more powerful (as in, napkin math puts the ChatGPT model as roughly 1/10 the size of the language centers in a Human brain), and the beneficiaries of billions of years of training, in the real world - the richest dataset in the universe. Humans, as well as other animals have "General Intelligence", this "Thing" that allows for effective action in all sorts of domains, including domains that we made up. No Artificial System has this "Thing". At least no Artificial System has this "Thing" yet.
If I can use an example like Deep Blue, the famous AI that defeated Kasparof and the other chess masters. While it may be capable of making an unexpected move, it will never know how to play chinese checkers, poker, monopoly or, idk, starcraft or something, unless people program it to do that.
While AIs are still very narrow, there is much work on making them more general. I would recommend reading about AlphaZero (which taught itself to play Go, Shogi, and Chess by playing against itself - no humans programming it needed, or even telling it the rules) and MuZero (All of the above and a dozen Atari Games)

but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people on the internet are making it out to be.
Since the second AI revolution, AI capabilities have been growing by leaps and bounds (I know, professionally). GPT3/GPT4 may not be a big deal (Microsoft disagrees), what about GPT(N), or GPT(N+1)?

Anyway, I don't mean to come across as hostile, this is just a topic that I enjoy talking about and am familiar with.
 

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