Potential Rule 8 Question: Regarding the Recent Anti-NSFW Content Bans...

[Scopas]

Hello; I wanted to ask if it was alright to set up a thread that discusses the ongoing trend of online hosts and providers banning NSFW content outright or making it difficult for NSFW creators to operate. I understand that this is an issue with political dimensions, but considering the nature of the board, it seems like discussion about Gumroad, Patron, and most especially Google's recent rule or enforcement changes would benefit the user base.


Please let me know if this is a valid topic for discussion here.

 

[MissileTeatime]

That's a good point, actually. We already have some threads dancing around it....

The most important thing to remember about Rule 8 in my experience, is that underlying the wording is the principle "the mods are here to run a porn forum, not moderate or referee [esp. politics] fights". It seems to be possible to talk about anything, so long as you do not violate that principle even by accident. (We have a cooking thread, for goodness sake!) I could see a lot of really interesting discussion coming out of such a thread... but it also would be fairly easy to fail to thread the needle, and any such failure would tend towards the catastrophic.

 

[alethiophile]

This is a topic that bears sufficiently on the board's purpose that it's probably worth the potential of political derails. Making a thread for that is fine.

Of course, you should avoid actually getting into the political aspects of it.

 

[AztecCroc]

Hello; I wanted to ask if it was alright to set up a thread that discusses the ongoing trend of online hosts and providers banning NSFW content outright or making it difficult for NSFW creators to operate. I understand that this is an issue with political dimensions, but considering the nature of the board, it seems like discussion about Gumroad, Patron, and most especially Google's recent rule or enforcement changes would benefit the user base.


Please let me know if this is a valid topic for discussion here.

Click to shrink...

Wait? What did Google do?

 

[Scopas]

Wait? What did Google do?

Click to shrink...

So, yesterday, there was a big hue and cry because a professional adult writer was letting it be known via Discord that Google had locked their access to their Drive and Docs and had cited Google's rules on acceptable content as the most probable reason. This exchange was screenshotted and shared via Instagram, and then onto sites like the Geekiary and SpaceBattles' War on Porn thread, which was where I first heard about it.


People begin freaking out and backing up everything.


However, a few hours later, whispers started going around that indicated that the writer who had started the panic had, in fact, been harboring CP in their Google Drive, and that one of their betas had discovered this and reported them, prompting the lock.


I don't know how much truth there is to any of that. No clue if that allegation has even a grain of truth or not, or if Google is indeed locking down people who use their services for NSFW purposes and coincidentally happened to find a person with illegal content in the same sweep.

 

[sinereal]

However, a few hours later, whispers started going around that indicated that the writer who had started the panic had, in fact, been harboring CP in their Google Drive, and that one of their betas had discovered this and reported them, prompting the lock.

Click to shrink...

I've heard that it wasn't actual CP, but written loli/shota, that the beta themselves reported.
Considering that to our knowledge, this person hasn't had the feds kicking in their door, it stands to reason that this assumption may be justified, for now.
Essentially, if there were actual CP, there are systems in place for that.
Google (and others) have programs that scan for hashes of known CP images/videos. Yes, the same CP images and videos the FBI keep in a secret 'evidence' server farm to compare against, expressly for that purpose.​
So, if it was something already in the database,
Step 1: it would've auto-flagged when it scanned the contents and found the relevant hash
Step 2: reported it to the feds, who would have then manually reviewed it
Step 3: Google would have silently not let the file go through and then done nothing, or locked the account from the outside but allowed the owner to log in/seem to do things to avoid tipping off the suspect, which is IT SOP for these sorts of things.
Step 4: fedbois would've been knocking down her door in a few days to weeks if it were real.
If it was something new, some newly made CP, start at step 2.
But the fact that google moved on it and shut down the account almost immediately kind of tells us there's probably not actual CP on it.

Personally, I'm more concerned with Mastercard's most recent declaration of war against NSFW.
Seeing as they've joined the likes of paypal, stripe, and patreon, how long until Visa decides to follow suit?

 

[94000130 FFF70000]

I've heard that it wasn't actual CP, but written loli/shota, that the beta themselves reported.
Considering that to our knowledge, this person hasn't had the feds kicking in their door, it stands to reason that this assumption may be justified, for now.
Essentially, if there were actual CP, there are systems in place for that.
Google (and others) have programs that scan for hashes of known CP images/videos. Yes, the same CP images and videos the FBI keep in a secret 'evidence' server farm to compare against, expressly for that purpose.​
So, if it was something already in the database,
Step 1: it would've auto-flagged when it scanned the contents and found the relevant hash
Step 2: reported it to the feds, who would have then manually reviewed it
Step 3: Google would have silently not let the file go through and then done nothing, or locked the account from the outside but allowed the owner to log in/seem to do things to avoid tipping off the suspect, which is IT SOP for these sorts of things.
Step 4: fedbois would've been knocking down her door in a few days to weeks if it were real.
If it was something new, some newly made CP, start at step 2.
But the fact that google moved on it and shut down the account almost immediately kind of tells us there's probably not actual CP on it.

Personally, I'm more concerned with Mastercard's most recent declaration of war against NSFW.
Seeing as they've joined the likes of paypal, stripe, and patreon, how long until Visa decides to follow suit?

Click to shrink...

Visa joined Mastercard in their attacks long ago, mate. The pornhub nuke? That was Visa and Mastercard.

In other disturbing updates (that I got from SB):

1. to my understanding, DLSite ALSO got told by Visa and Mastercard "remove all 'objectionable content' or we wont let anyone pay you" and provided a list of 'objectionable content' (of course consisting of enormous amounts of their catalogue). DLSite said 'okay' and then basically instructed users to rename things to other things as "acceptable substitutes" (without actually changing the content). Visa and Mastercard said this was unacceptable and they wanted ALL fictional content that didn't meet their stringent standards removed. End result, DLSite can no longer accept payments from Visa and Mastercard.

The only ray of hope is that American Express hasn't joined their war yet.

2. Arizona legislature passed their own age-verification law in the state. It hasn't gone over the governor's desk yet but it probably will. E621 is hosted in Arizona and is being threatened. Given that they already had to lock out North Carolina users, this bodes very badly for the fate of the site itself.
Crossposting from SB's War on Porn (or the PGification of the Internet) thread:

So...Arizona's legislature passed a bill that would basically force websites to either verify people's ages through IDs or purge itself of all explicit content in order to avoid that.

http://[URL]https://twitter.com/FSCArmy/status/1774921466930159892

[/URL]
And since E621 operates in Arizona, they'd have to comply with it should it become law.

Regardless of how one may feel about E621 in particular, this is a dangerous precedent to set as it could easily lead to other forms of censorship. So, for anyone living in Arizona, I suggest you start calling your governor.

Click to shrink...

Contents of the image is the news banner on E621:
April 2nd: The politicians in Arizona are about to sign into law a bill that would mandate sites like e621 to either impose age verification on all users or be at a risk of lawsuits. Such system would be required to go through third party vendors, who in turn must go through a government database to verify every user's age. This is not only a major violation of privacy, but it also opens up a very real danger of identity theft through phishing schemes and other methods, not to mention that we would not be able to control any of that information to make sure it is permanently deleted after age verification is complete.

Unfortunately, Arizona is the state out of which e621 operates, which means that this law will almost certainly affect us if it is to pass. If want to help us ensure that this site can continue to serve you without being required to know who you are, please ask the Arizona governor to veto this bill.

Please, help us get the word out by letting others know about this issue.

For some further information on what the bill does have a look at https://action.freespeechcoalition.com/bill/arizona-hb-2586/

EDIT: The governor vetoed it, whew.

---

As a side note, also crossposting from SB:

Kind of interesting to see whats happening in conservative states in the US with the porn sites. I live in Canada and all the political parties here want laws in place to make accessing porn stricter in terms of verification. Most of the arguments are couched in protecting the children but thats a pretty thin justification. Its most likely a given that its eventually going to pass in law since our senate has already introduced it as a bill.

The main thing is going to be how these sites are going to verify a person. Use a gov ID? create new digital ID? whatever the case, its going to be invasive as hell.

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So basically the entirety of Canada is planning to pull this bullshit too.

I couldn't find any threads about this besides the existing various sites getting purged threads and I don't have the kind of time to wrangle a thread as the OP.

As an additional question, what will QQ itself need to do to protect itself from liability? Or is QQ hosted outside the USA?

 

[Akuma-Heika]

Or is QQ hosted outside the USA?

Click to shrink...

Would that be enough to protect them (at least from being banned in the US)?

 

[JohnWolfie34]

Okaaaayyyy. I am now concerned for mah smut platform. Mods/ChAdmins? Please answer us, we degenerates fear the loss of our happy fun time writings!

 

[Megaolix]

Okaaaayyyy. I am now concerned for mah smut platform. Mods/ChAdmins? Please answer us, we degenerates fear the loss of our happy fun time writings!

Click to shrink...

Right now, there is nothing happening. Trust us to handle that if something DOES happen.

 

[Canadian Leprechaun]

Right now, there is nothing happening. Trust us to handle that if something DOES happen.

Click to shrink...

Given how it's come up several times in the past months, and is likely to keep coming up, it's probably be worth it for staff to put up an announcement to that effect.

 

[p3p3p0l3]

On the topic of I've seen people here complaining here about... well in Spain there's a law that is already almost approbed that will enforce that every pc/mobile phone automatically installs (or if they were created AFTER the law, forces manufacturers to install it) an app that blocks you out of entering porn sites without first identifyng yourself which, while you are in those sites, you will remain fully identified with your actual physical identity and thus monitored on by said app on which site(s) you enter, how long you watch etc..., but wait! There's more!

If that wasn't bad enough once you identify yourself (with your actual national identification number, again, cannot express how horrofyng that is) you get a system of points (30 per month as a starter, but don't worry; you can always request for more! ) that you can't surpass, every time you go to watch porn you waste one of them AND there are restrictions on which sites you enter; they won't let you enter the same sites more than 2-3 times per month. There's even talk about spending too many "points" in a day or spending too much time in a site.

All of this with the excuse of preventing minors from watching porn (tell that to teenagers). I know the mods don't want this to get political (I think I failed, sorry), and there's so many things wrong with this that I'll just say that the intention never was preventing childs from watching porn, but controlling what the adults do.

The only thing that is stopping the spaniards from this is that the program itself is not completely ready, but really, is just a matter of weeks

Were I live we call this the "pajaporte" but it's oficially called "Cartera Digital Beta", it's a real thing, look it up.

 

[Canadian Leprechaun]

pajaporte

Click to shrink...

Look into The Onion Router

 

[Silvercrystal]

Look into The Onion Router

Click to shrink...

It is a wonderful and terrible power.

 

[Vajra]

Look into The Onion Router

Click to shrink...

It's great if you enjoy dial-up speeds.

 

[Canadian Leprechaun]

It's great if you enjoy dial-up speeds.

Click to shrink...

It exists for getting around heavy handed totalitarian government internet control to access the near sum total of human knowledge, porn, and memes, not people who got tired of Comcast.

 

[Vajra]

It exists for getting around heavy handed totalitarian government internet control to access the near sum total of human knowledge, porn, and memes, not people who got tired of Comcast.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, try watching porn when it takes an hour to load a single frame of video. Or stop being a cheapskate and pay for a proper VPN.

 

[Canadian Leprechaun]

Yeah, try watching porn when it takes an hour to load a single frame of video. Or stop being a cheapskate and pay for a proper VPN.

Click to shrink...

So you're one of the people who just doesn't read a post before responding.

Oh, and you're aware that there are more forms of porn than video, right?

Edited to be less spaghetti

 

[Vajra]

You're aware that there are more forms of porn than video, right?

Click to shrink...

Yes, access the near total sum of human porn, except the most popular. And I guess not pictures either unless you want to use just one tab so that shit will actually load.

Oh, so you're one of the people who just doesn't read a post before responding.

Click to shrink...

You're aware that you can subscribe to a VPN completely anonymously, right? Never mind cryptocurrency, you can literally mail them cash. If that is not secure enough for you, then TOR isn't either and you need something like Tails OS.

 

[Canadian Leprechaun]

Yes, access the near total sum of human porn, except the most popular. And I guess not pictures either unless you want to use just one tab so that shit will actually load.

Click to shrink...

So you just don't think Hmanga and erotic literature exist or something? What are you doing on his site?

You're aware that you can subscribe to a VPN completely anonymously, right? Never mind cryptocurrency, you can literally mail them cash.

Click to shrink...

Tor, being a browser as well, provides more security than just a VPN, not everyone has disposable income, some paid vpns still collect your information, if a VPN has a way to sign up by mail in your country it would mean they have a presence in said country and are therefore subject to it's laws and may themself be monitored.

Or are you talking about mailing cash internationally which surely won't trip any alarms in the kind of country that you'd need a VPN to use the internet in.

 

[Vajra]

Tor, being a browser as well, provides more security than just a VPN, not everyone has disposable income, some paid vpns still collect your information, if a VPN has a way to sign up by mail in your country it would mean they have a presence in said country and are therefore subject to it's laws and may themself be monitored.

Click to shrink...

Do you just not know what a VPN is? What information? Go to mullvad and check what information you need to provide to make an account. Hint: it's fucking nothing. You push a button, you get a serial number and write it down on a piece of paper. That serial number is your account. You don't even use a password.

And do you think people are just allowed to open your mail to check if there's a wad of cash inside? Do you think you need to include your personal info in the mail for anything other than a return-to-sender claim? No, you send the wad of cash and your account number, and you put a fucking stamp on the envelope. And if that's too low-tech for you, pay with crypto.

No, TOR is not a browser, the "TOR browser" is just a pre-configured firefox. The big VPNs have their own pre-configured for anonymity browsers, just like TOR does. And again, if that is not secure enough for you, you have bigger problems and need Tails.

 

[Canadian Leprechaun]

Do you just not know what a VPN is? What information? Go to mullvad and check what information you need to provide to make an account. Hint: it's fucking nothing. You push a button, you get a serial number and write it down on a piece of paper. That serial number is your account. You don't even use a password.

And do you think people are just allowed to open your mail to check if there's a wad of cash inside? Do you think you need to include your personal info in the mail for anything other than a return-to-sender claim? No, you send the wad of cash and your account number, and you put a fucking stamp on the envelope. And if that's too low-tech for you, pay with crypto.

Click to shrink...

Are you actually fucking reading what I post or are you just replying to what you think some strawman would say? When I say totalitarian government I fucking mean it, places where the government won't let you go on Reddit, where your citizenship score will lower if you're caught browsing porn, will be arrested for posting negative things about the government.

Tor. Is. For. People. Who. Need. It.

Edit: Somehow I've never actually heard about Tails

 

[Vajra]

Are you actually fucking reading what I post or are you just replying to what you think some strawman would say? When I say totalitarian government I fucking mean it, places where the government won't let you go on Reddit, where your citizenship score will lower if you're caught browsing porn, will be arrested for posting negative things about the government.

Tor. Is. For. People. Who. Need. It.

Click to shrink...

Yes, I fucking read what you wrote. You recommended TOR to someone who lives in Spain. Just like everywhere else in Europe, getting VPN access in Spain is trivial and more than enough to get the government off your back. Hell, even in Russia it's trivial and works, and I'm pretty sure they made VPNs illegal there at some point. An unenforceable law, because they can't actually tell you're using one.

And Tails is apparently good enough that governments are trying to make it illegal.

 

[Canadian Leprechaun]

Yes, I fucking read what you wrote. You recommended TOR to someone who lives in Spain. Just like everywhere else in Europe, getting VPN access in Spain is trivial and more than enough to get the government off your back.

Click to shrink...

That... Is my reading comprehension failure, I completely missed that they were talking about Spain.

 

[Vajra]

That... Is my reading comprehension failure, I completely missed that they were talking about Spain.

Click to shrink...

I just assumed you were counting it among those totalitarian countries where you can get arrested for Reddit posts. I wasn't disagreeing with that part. I was just saying that getting a VPN there isn't hard and more than good enough. And lets you enjoy high-speed Internet.

 

[Canadian Leprechaun]

I just assumed you were counting it among those totalitarian countries where you can get arrested for Reddit posts. I wasn't disagreeing with that part. I was just saying that getting a VPN there isn't hard and more than good enough.

Click to shrink...

I still personally don't trust most free VPNs, you are the product and all that. But anywhere that has a rule of law that isn't "I say so" would generally have a better option yeah.

Still looking into tails, but apparently it uses TOR?

Edit: also trying to reconcile the fact that when I last looked into this stuff the explanations I got appears to have been way more dumbed down than it was presented as.

 

[Vajra]

I still personally don't trust most free VPNs, you are the product and all that. But anywhere that has a rule of law that isn't "I say so" would generally have a better option yeah.

Still looking into tails, but apparently it uses TOR?

Click to shrink...

I don't trust free VPNs either, but the paid ones live and die by their reputation, and the reputations of the ones I know of are all stainless. I've used mullvad for the past several years, and as long as you don't need port-forwarding or want to bypass Netflix's aggressive anti-VPN region locking it's great.

Tails is basically the TOR browser, except instead of just your browser being anonymized via a customized Firefox, it's your whole OS being anonymized via a customized Linux distro. It's made for whistleblowers, though of course it's also popular with criminals.

As I recall its selling point is its ability to keep you safe even if the government gains physical access to your computer.

 

[IHev9Sun]

One of my friends from high school said that in the future, people would be out on the streets, dealing in anime waifus much like hard drugs because it would be impossible to watch anime or hentai online. I thought he was crazy at the time, but seeing the recent events? I can see it happening and it's sad.

 

[Biigoh]

One of my friends from high school said that in the future, people would be out on the streets, dealing in anime waifus much like hard drugs because it would be impossible to watch anime or hentai online. I thought he was crazy at the time, but seeing the recent events? I can see it happening and it's sad.

Click to shrink...

Lol.... that was what it was like in the 80s and 90s, brah.

VHS and CDs and then DVDs was how anime and hentai got passed around...

 

[IHev9Sun]

Lol.... that was what it was like in the 80s and 90s, brah.

VHS and CDs and then DVDs was how anime and hentai got passed around...

Click to shrink...

SO I've heard, I never got access to the internet until 2008, and I was a 90s kid.

I didn't even last a single day before I immediately searched up porn on the family computer lol.

In any case, I have full confidence you guys will ensure we get to keep our smut untouched by the feds.