SHINOBI: The RPG - Act 2 (Naruto/Fallout SI)

[Fulcon]

But... At the same time... The a large part of the dark side that your trying to pull on is centered around resentment and hatred of the village and it's people for how they treated him (compounded by how they just flipped their opinion so easily after he saved the village (in canon) or was revealed to be Minato's son in this story) and that would actually be a source Daisuke and him can come together on, so....

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Oh, it makes sense for Naruto's dark side to be somewhat different here, since he had a friend...and some one who made him kind of irrelevant just by existing.

Now I have the image of Jashin and Shinigami disturbing them mid-sex.

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*headdesks*

Now so do I. Darn you.

Fulcon would have to shift this over to the NSFW for that to be allowed in the fic I think.

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I agree.

Sorry, I edited in more in my last post that I think you should see.

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Thank you kindly.

Personally, I'm just really hoping that Naruto's good nature will overcome it all in the end.

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*nods nods*

I can see that. Naruto is the good guy of the franchise, so it would be really tough to see him to do bad things. I won't spoil what I think is going to happen, but I will say that I'm keeping this in mind.

I do like Jashin as a character, but I feel like Daisuke should actually just sit down with him and Shinigami to just talk about what rules they want to have and such. I mean, I feel like Jashin and Shinigami might agree to let Daisuke alone a little if he compromises in some ways. Like, maybe they won't mess with the people closest to him (like Naruto and his peers), but in return he'll stop interfering so much himself.

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The problem with this is that while Daisuke would be willing to sit down, Jashin (even though he's complaining), is going to wind up enjoying messing with mortals a LOT in the coming days. Just because of Daisuke being unable to not handle things himself. Sucks how things work sometimes, huh?

After all, Shinigami seems like a reasonable guy, and Jashin appears like the kind of evil guy that will abide by contracts and agreements, simply because he's above such petty betrayals.

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Lawful evil?

Yeah, I could see that. *nods nods*

Have a cookie.

 

[Galacticplumber]

Stupid child doesn't see the inherent hypocrisy of going off on someone not considering the consequences of their actions before agreeing that missions should be accepted and carried out blindly. Possibly due to never having the Mizuki incident to teach that superiors can give bad orders. Well played if intentional. Happy accident if not.

Also before anyone complains this makes total sense. Naruto's first use of the famous talk no jutsu was countermanding a missing nin's word about lacking emotions about his comrade's sacrifice. The same missing nin who hesitated to harm said comrade for an easy advantage in the fight earlier, whose entire goal in life was to take down his kage to stop the blood purge civil war his comrade was a victim of, and whom had repeatedly and regularly pulled punches against them before.

Naruto didn't even have the "never run" or "protect precious people" convictions BEFORE WAVE. Honestly the thematics of Naruto not having grown into as good of a person without his hardships to teach him, and thus making entirely new hardships as a result, is excellent.

Bonus points for tying it into previous conflict where Daisuke was told to make better people instead of doing everything himself. This is known as reading the book INSIDE the book. Underneath the underneath.

 

[RichardWhereat]

"He got some bad blood with the…with someone in the village," Naruto pointed out with a frown. "He couldn't forgive him and the old man couldn't let what Daisuke stand. So, he left."

What daisuke said/did stand.

And yeah, it wouod take a massive amount. That's why I said three sermons on friendship, not one. Naruto can change the world with just a single one, and Jashin has known very good people like him before (probably fellow asura incarnates). Therefore it will require three times as much sermon, which is likely exponential in effefts.

What happened to that argument that civilians have almost no chakra and would only be able to learn low level techniques like the torch, or t/w walking which is just control? Because that was a great argument against jutsu being spread out causing a revolution. To get training in more they'd need to join the samurai or ninja.

 

[Fulcon]

Well played if intentional. Happy accident if not.

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Happy accident. The happiest of accidents, from what you're saying.

Also before anyone complains this makes total sense. Naruto's first use of the famous talk no jutsu was countermanding a missing nin's word about lacking emotions about his comrade's sacrifice. The same missing nin who hesitated to harm said comrade for an easy advantage in the fight earlier, whose entire goal in life was to take down his kage to stop the blood purge civil war his comrade was a victim of, and whom had repeatedly and regularly pulled punches against them before.

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This being Zabuza?

...man, it has been a long time since I've seen Naruto...I need to rewatch it at somepoint and actually look at Shippuden.

Naruto didn't even have the "never run" or "protect precious people" convictions BEFORE WAVE. Honestly the thematics of Naruto not having grown into as good of a person without his hardships to teach him, and thus making entirely new hardships as a result, is excellent.

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I'm glad you think so! Thank you.

Bonus points for tying it into previous conflict where Daisuke was told to make better people instead of doing everything himself. This is known as reading the book INSIDE the book. Underneath the underneath.

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Again, happy accident. I just knew I wanted to focus on Naruto having to deal with becoming irrelevant, but I wasn't sure how. Apparently, it works great!

What happened to that argument that civilians have almost no chakra and would only be able to learn low level techniques like the torch, or t/w walking which is just control? Because that was a great argument against jutsu being spread out causing a revolution. To get training in more they'd need to join the samurai or ninja.

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Naruto's not focusing on it. He doesn't even know if Civilian's have chakra, really.

 

[Reader_as_a_Hobby]

Shit... I actually forgot about Naruto having a metaphysical component to him that makes him a... Maybe not a better person, but more compassionate and charismatic as an asura transmigrate.

 

[Fulcon]

Shit... I actually forgot about Naruto having a metaphysical component to him that makes him a... Maybe not a better person, but more compassionate and charismatic as an asura transmigrate.

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Don't worry about it, I forgot too.

Just, you know...I have plans.

 

[divoratore1]

"Please. If he met a girl he actually liked back, he'd marry her instantly,"

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I'm surprised nobody pointed this out. Heh. You certainly do seem to know him, Naruto...

 

[Galacticplumber]

Again, Naruto's diplomacy wasn't actually strong this early on. His big moves were very deliberately easy to pull off as laid out in the last response.

Also Fulcon, Turtle Island was where Naruto acknowledged and worked through his darker impulses, lack of ability to forgive and loneliness, by accepting them, forgiving them, and hugging the literal manifestation of them. This was in preparation for fighting Kurama, who has negative emotion sensing and would use such dark side impulses to manipulate him as happened left and right when he was truly stressed before then.

Also also, the mark of a good work is that it's fleshed out enough that themes can be drawn as parallels show themselves in the work. It's the language written works use to communicate the meaning of a story. The audience, and sometimes even the author, don't consciously notice it, but their brains/subconscious do/does.

Net result Fulcon? Your work IS awesome, but you can make it more awesome by thinking how things connect to other things and working the potential consciously. The difference between lucky breaks and consistent brilliance all lies in understanding the mechanism. Well that's the planner's take on achieving this effect. The more improvisational style of focusing on fully realized characters just throws detail and care into their portrayals until stuff like this is statistically inevitable. Doing that deliberately is also a method of improving.

 

[Fulcon]

I'm surprised nobody pointed this out. Heh. You certainly do seem to know him, Naruto...

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That he does.

...man, he's going to be shocked at how he called it when he gets back...

The more improvisational style of focusing on fully realized characters just throws detail and care into their portrayals until stuff like this is statistically inevitable. Doing that deliberately is also a method of improving.

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I'm going to go with that one, since I write almost entirely by the seat of my pants.

Thank you for your advice, have a cookie.

 

[Garganator]

Oh, it makes sense for Naruto's dark side to be somewhat different here, since he had a friend...and some one who made him kind of irrelevant just by existing.

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You may say that in canon Naruto's 'dark side' is mostly because of dealing with Sin of Betrayal from villagers. While in this story I would say Sin of Envy is responsible one here. Which makes this completely logical that it will be different.

Also in Shippuden there is a scene where Naruto meets his 'dark version' in the same Turtle Island Arc let's call it. So I'm curious how different that version will be. While canon one was mostly angry, frustrated and furious... this one I suspect could be like a succubus/incubus. Far more calm and collected, with lots of sweet words, but with hidden poison inside of them, which may turn this Naruto to become self-destructive if he allows it to win.

So ironically in my opinion this 'incubus version' has far higher chance to succed because of how far more subtle it would be.

I can see that. Naruto is the good guy of the franchise, so it would be really tough to see him to do bad things. I won't spoil what I think is going to happen, but I will say that I'm keeping this in mind.

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He does bad things, especially under Kyuubi's influence. Chakra is both spiritual and physical energy. First part is important, because chakra literally does affect the person who uses it. And type of it will affect the user. This is how I see it at least.

The problem with this is that while Daisuke would be willing to sit down, Jashin (even though he's complaining), is going to wind up enjoying messing with mortals a LOT in the coming days. Just because of Daisuke being unable to not handle things himself. Sucks how things work sometimes, huh?

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I think for Jashin this is like a vacation time, really. He has at least permission of some kinds to do some things which otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to do. Or rather he wouldn't I suspect break some sort of personal code of conduct. Especially if you go with Lawful Evil interpretation, which does make sense.

I'm surprised nobody pointed this out. Heh. You certainly do seem to know him, Naruto...

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I can't wait to see Naruto's reaction to Daisuke's marriage with Anko. It should be glorious.

Naruto didn't even have the "never run" or "protect precious people" convictions BEFORE WAVE. Honestly the thematics of Naruto not having grown into as good of a person without his hardships to teach him, and thus making entirely new hardships as a result, is excellent.

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There is popular fan theory that if Naruto didn't go through his all hardships in canon, he wouldn't be able to change some events for better as he would lack understanding of their situation. Like with Gaara, which this Naruto I can't imagine to really understand.

 

[l---erddad---l]

"They were always dangers to themselves and others, never able to see the full consequences of their actions."

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At this exact moment was when I knew, even more than a suspicion, that this was...

Jashin just looked at the young Genin depart on his Sensei's back impassively.

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Jashin. That was a perfect wedge for their relationship, well done Jashin.

Fulcon would have to shift this over to the NSFW for that to be allowed in the fic I think.

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Not necessarily: He could play it off as a Noodle Incident, especially as a recurring one.

...man, he's going to be shocked at how he called it when he gets back...

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"You... What?"

"I got married."

Naruto's confused expression slowly morphed into a grin so large, you'd think that he dislocated his jaw to do it. "I knew it! I FUCKING CALLED IT! WHOO!"

 

[RichardWhereat]

Shit... I actually forgot about Naruto having a metaphysical component to him that makes him a... Maybe not a better person, but more compassionate and charismatic as an asura transmigrate.

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Oh, he is definitely a better person. Stronger, longer lived, more physical and spiritual energy, in touch with the world, and the spiritual grandson of a god.

 

[Galacticplumber]

Yeah, no this Naruto would accomplish sweet fuck all with Gaara. He EXPLICITLY was able to empathize with Gaara due to the link of their situation, and recognition of a coping mechanism for the crushing loneliness. This one would've had to get smarter to come to the same conclusion without having orders of magnitude more evidence crammed into his face for like half a decade. He doesn't have to though. Daisuke did that too. His emotional problem with Daisuke is explicitly the same as Hisa-....

I'm not predicting future arc resolutions. Lies and SLANDER! YOU'RE predicting future arc resolutions!

 

[Fulcon]

So ironically in my opinion this 'incubus version' has far higher chance to succed because of how far more subtle it would be.

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My real question here is what happens if Naruto loses?

This is how I see it at least.

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That's actually a good point. Especially since he's likely going to get both halves of the Kyuubi soon.

I think for Jashin this is like a vacation time, really.

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Another great point! Yes, Daisuke doing things different means that Jashin has to do things differently until Daisuke learns to calm down. It's like a level 100 player slumming down to the level of a level 1 player just because he's the first real player to play with in a long time.

Jashin. That was a perfect wedge for their relationship, well done Jashin.

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Yeah, Jashin's turning out to be great fun to write.

Not necessarily: He could play it off as a Noodle Incident, especially as a recurring one.

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That is true, I could.

I can't wait to see Naruto's reaction to Daisuke's marriage with Anko. It should be glorious.

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"You... What?"

"I got married."

Naruto's confused expression slowly morphed into a grin so large, you'd think that he dislocated his jaw to do it. "I knew it! I FUCKING CALLED IT! WHOO!"

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There's going to be lots of confusion from everyone once they figure it out.

...Sasuke's got his mom back, Daisuke's married, everything's changed while they've been gone in wave. Because Daisuke doesn't do gradual.

Oh, he is definitely a better person. Stronger, longer lived, more physical and spiritual energy, in touch with the world, and the spiritual grandson of a god.

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I mean, technically you're right, if you mean he's like 'person 2.0', which I think is indeed what you mean.

EDIT:

His emotional problem with Daisuke is explicitly the same as Hisa-....

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I have considered it.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean.

 

[Fulcon]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean.

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And you're right. He IS Person 2.0.

 

[Garganator]

My real question here is what happens if Naruto loses?

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I suspect that they swap places. 'Dark' personality ends up in a 'pilot position' of their body, while 'normal' one ends up in a 'passengers seat'. It would be a really bad scenario, especially if my guess on this Naruto's Dark Side ends up being something similar to my guess, as Envy!Naruto should be far better at acting then Wrath!Naruto let's call it that.

That's actually a good point. Especially since he's likely going to get both halves of the Kyuubi soon.

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This will also mean pretty heavy Minato nerf. In canon as Edo Tensei he was able to use Perfect Kyuubi Mode, just like Naruto, which made him a pretty darn strong powerhouse using other half of Kyuubi. He will be still strong with just his base form, but it will make a difference.

Although from what I remember Minato's Kyuubi was far more... chill? Or at least more calm and collected. I suspect it's those several years with possibly Minato as his only company? Also Minato's Kyuubi is made of Yin Chakra, while Naruto's from Yang. Yin represent spiritual part of chakra, I suspect 'spiritual part' is what makes this Kyuubi's personality different.

This is pretty much me guessing here then basing it on pure facts, but it may work. Actually I wonder if this fusion won't actually help Naruto find better spiritual balance if this fusion happens.

Another great point! Yes, Daisuke doing things different means that Jashin has to do things differently until Daisuke learns to calm down. It's like a level 100 player slumming down to the level of a level 1 player just because he's the first real player to play with in a long time.

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I wonder if all those Jashin's plans are based on his desire to not only complete his actions based on his domains (which evil looks like one of obvious ones, so he pretty much does his job as a God of Evil), but also possibly want to add more Deities to Naruto's Pantheon via Daisuke. Rivalry is a good way to do so, as from what we see Daisuke already added one Goddess called Anko and he will add more.

If this was crossover, I suspect this would be Jashin preparing for potential battles with other pantheons and Naruto ones is severaly lacking in numbers here.

Or maybe this may be Jashin suspecting something strange will happen, which in this case may be for example R.O.B. thing, so additional allies won't hurt. Even if only temporary.

Yeah, Jashin's turning out to be great fun to write.

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Yeah, he is interesting, because he is pretty complex for an Evil character, which is pretty good to read. There is a reason I despise Chaotic Evil and from roleplaying point of view I find Lawful Evil one of the most interesting archetypes (with Chaotic Good and Lawful Neutral my other favourites).

There's going to be lots of confusion from everyone once they figure it out.

...Sasuke's got his mom back, Daisuke's married, everything's changed while they've been gone in wave. Because Daisuke doesn't do gradual.

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I think people that know him won't be really surprised or confused. As Naruto mentioned impossible is pretty much what describes Daisuke. Also feelings I would think they would feel is exasperation and some sort of resignation. Daisuke is very casual about the things he does which for other people are ridiculous, impossible or strange. But we humans are really good at adapting to new circumstances and I suspect shinobi are the same.

 

[Alipheese]

Much like others here, I totally forgot that canon Naruto got basically his entire life philosophy from Haku (True strength comes from protecting your precious people). With him not meeting Haku in Wave this time around, I wonder what kind of Naruto he will turn out to be in the end. He's gonna end up SO DIFFERENT without that, holy shit.

 

[Fulcon]

I suspect that they swap places.

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That would be nasty.

This will also mean pretty heavy Minato nerf. In canon as Edo Tensei he was able to use Perfect Kyuubi Mode, just like Naruto, which made him a pretty darn strong powerhouse using other half of Kyuubi. He will be still strong with just his base form, but it will make a difference.

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Wait, really? That's interesting.

Huh.

This is pretty much me guessing here then basing it on pure facts, but it may work. Actually I wonder if this fusion won't actually help Naruto find better spiritual balance if this fusion happens.

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I mean, I'm not opposed to it...

Yeah, he is interesting, because he is pretty complex for an Evil character, which is pretty good to read. There is a reason I despise Chaotic Evil and from roleplaying point of view I find Lawful Evil one of the most interesting archetypes (with Chaotic Good and Lawful Neutral my other favourites).

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Neat!

Now you've made it my lifes mission to have a Chaotic Evil character be interesting. Luckily, I've already got a character like that waiting in the wings!

But we humans are really good at adapting to new circumstances and I suspect shinobi are the same.

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I agree.

But it's still going to take the wind out of Sasuke's sails.

He's gonna end up SO DIFFERENT without that, holy shit.

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I'm counting on it, now.

 

[Galacticplumber]

Normal Minato is noted as having chakra capacity as his relative weakest attribute, which is likely why he claims to be bad at sage mode.

Edo Minato the chakra zombie had functionally limitless chakra, half of Kurama, and as a consequence the ability to match Naruto's perfect sage mode on the spot.

Do keep in mind that even nerfed by having NONE of that Minato murdered half of hidden stone to cap off the last war. His other great accomplishment defeating a teenage Obito with competent use of Kamui matching his teleportation and the improved durability of a zetsu body, then immediately afterword defeating Kurama with a sacrifice play.

Oh also rescuing baby Naruto from that same Obito earlier the same day by grabbing him and teleporting to their house disposing of the high yield explosive tag Obito hid in the baby blanket by throwing it into the house and diving away child in hand.

While not aware of his real identity Minato KNOWS the masked man, and will be absolutely goddamn furious if they meet. Dude caused his and his wife's death, tried to kill his son, and also the whole village. Minato has a very calm under pressure demeanor, but if there's still a place in Konoha for Obito I will eat my goddamn foot.

 

[Garganator]

Much like others here, I totally forgot that canon Naruto got basically his entire life philosophy from Haku (True strength comes from protecting your precious people). With him not meeting Haku in Wave this time around, I wonder what kind of Naruto he will turn out to be in the end. He's gonna end up SO DIFFERENT without that, holy shit.

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This is true. It's also fascinating how pretty much 'tutorial arc' created someone who was so important for characterization of Naruto.

I'm trying to think how it would make Naruto different and kind of struggle? Will this Naruto be far more dedicated towards his duties then personal social connections? Where he would insist and be very damn persistent or even borderline annoying in some social interactions, here he will prefer to keep distance and let people have more personal freedom? Yeah, I'm curious how it will be presented, because Naruto will be different, very much so.

That would be nasty.

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Pretty much. I guess it may also be possible that whole Naruto will... dissapear, 'wiped out' by that other personality, which is horrible as well. This is one of those battles that Naruto really, REALLY CAN'T afford to loose. And honestly... I have a suspicions that it may happen. This Naruto simply didn't deal with enough hardships like canon one and may be far less hardened when dealing with strong enemies. And as they say sometimes you are your own worst enemy.

Again, it comes to fan theory of Naruto's character strenght being based on amount of hardships he dealt with and survived.

Wait, really? That's interesting.

Huh.

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Spoiler: Minato and Naruto Fist Bumps in Kyuubi Modes

This is a fanart, but manga scene looks almost identical. Wait... ah, here it is!

Spoiler: Manga Scene with Minato/Naruto Fist Bump Before Battle

Yep .

Now you've made it my lifes mission to have a Chaotic Evil character be interesting. Luckily, I've already got a character like that waiting in the wings!

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I guess it's possible, but maybe it's my personal experiences on how one-dimensional many Chaotic Evil characters can be in their... savage simplicity. Mindless destruction, violence and bloobath can become really, really boring fast. Of course I suspect interesting Chaotic Evil would be someone who is more unpredictible then violent per se, but clearly selfish, who doesn't care about others, etc.

I agree.

But it's still going to take the wind out of Sasuke's sails.

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Hmmm yeah, fair. When you see some of your clan members alive just like that... yeah, it will surprise anyone.

What I'm more curious here will be how Sasuke will react when he realizes why so few are actually revived and when he learns that all of them almost refused. I think his feelings will be... complex in this situation. Dissapointment? Anger at betrayal of his own people? Crushing sadness? Yeah, should be interesting.

Normal Minato is noted as having chakra capacity as his relative weakest attribute, which is likely why he claims to be bad at sage mode.

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Ahhh... it's one of those... strange plot holes let's call it that. Especially when later on he clearly uses Perfect Sage Mode in Edo Tensei form. I guess it may be explained with whole unlimited chakra of Edo Tensei forms? Who knows? As seen on this screenshot from anime:

Yeah.

 

[Galacticplumber]

Unlimited chakra plus having half a Kurama. We take this interpretation, because the alternative involves him just not using a tool that stupidly overpowered in the fight with Obito for no reason. Higher chakra capacity, enhanced senses for timing, stronger jutsu, better reaction times, enhanced strength, and speed... Yeah no. He didn't do it back then because he legit couldn't and the status of his canon ressing changed things. The alternative is stupid.

 

[MasMaud]

"Oh, the same one I always give,"

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... So what happened to these other gods that Jashin gave advice to?

Because 'always' implies more than just Daisuke.

 

[Fulcon]

While not aware of his real identity Minato KNOWS the masked man, and will be absolutely goddamn furious if they meet. Dude caused his and his wife's death, tried to kill his son, and also the whole village. Minato has a very calm under pressure demeanor, but if there's still a place in Konoha for Obito I will eat my goddamn foot.

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I mean...nah.

There are some things you just can't come back from. At least not without a hard reset.

Would you take a hard reset?

This is true. It's also fascinating how pretty much 'tutorial arc' created someone who was so important for characterization of Naruto.

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I'll be honest, I completely forgot how essential Haku was to Naruto's growth. I just didn't want to include him because he makes me feel icky.

But since I decided not to include him, we get to see what kind of person Naruto becomes when Jashin steps in to fill the role!

...wait, crap...

Again, it comes to fan theory of Naruto's character strenght being based on amount of hardships he dealt with and survived.

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It's a theory with a lot of merit. I agree with it.

Yep .

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That's friggan awesome.

Have a cookie for showing me.

I guess it's possible...

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The alternative is stupid.

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And thus, we do not use it.

... So what happened to these other gods that Jashin gave advice to?

Because 'always' implies more than just Daisuke.

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Have a cookie for catching that.

 

[Darkarma]

*headdesks*

Now so do I. Darn you.

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If you do this... I will immediately picture it as Deadpool!Ryan Reynolds doing the interupting while hanging off of the Shinigami.

"Oh! He's-! Ah. HI DAISUKE! We seemed to have misplaced your door and all the space between it and you. Fancy that."

 

[Fulcon]

"Oh! He's-! Ah. HI DAISUKE! We seemed to have misplaced your door and all the space between it and you. Fancy that."

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*pffffftttttthahahahahahaahahaha!*

Have a cookie, thank you for making me laugh.

 

[The Unaligned Player]

You know Fulcon when I was reading that chapter it felt.. off... stilted... eerily cooperative. Like it was being acted out by automata that haven't quite figure out to human. I understood the motivations. The words spoken were logical for the people doing the speaking and I felt no part of it was particularly rushed or slow.

So you can imagine my confusion at the uneasiness I felt when I read it.

And then it hit me like a megaton punch to the face!

These people are acting like my definition of mature and my mind has been poisoned to think bad of that mindset!

Now I'm admittedly a slightly sociopathic jaded misanthrope, but still Fulcon you have as far as I'm concerned managed to capture maturity (As much maturity as can be extracted from the people in these circumstances anyway) very well here with the frankness, lack of anything resembling shame, honesty, and most of all a basic grasp of the seeming superpower known as Communication!

My hat off to you good author! I hope to read more of your literature.

 

[Fulcon]

These people are acting like my definition of mature and my mind has been poisoned to think bad of that mindset!

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Which chapter are we talking about, chapter 15 or chapter 16?

The one with Anko and Daisuke, or the one with Naruto and the Traveller?

EDIT: Either way, thank you for the kind words and I'm happy you enjoyed it.

 

[Galacticplumber]

I'd wager Anko and Daisuke. Naruto and the Traveler is a textbook example of an adult leading an impressionable child like a well trained dog.

 

[The Unaligned Player]

Which chapter are we talking about, chapter 15 or chapter 16?

The one with Anko and Daisuke, or the one with Naruto and the Traveller?

EDIT: Either way, thank you for the kind words and I'm happy you enjoyed it.

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Shimoda's. Jashin and Naruto were an exercise in irrational frustration because he's been raised this way his whole life Player, The world is being manipulated into a death spiral Player, his ability to think is being poisoned by the local equivalent of Satan Player! Come on you forgave and understood Sakura this shouldn't be hard!
Daisuke'd