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SHINOBI: The RPG - New Game

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Galacticplumber said:
We didn't say energy blades were impossible
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I never said that you said it was impossible. I said that it had been done in canon, which I felt was relevant.

As for there being difficulties in implementing energy or mono blades... So what? Depending on where Daisuke spends his points, all these engineering issues are things that can be overcome.

Admittedly, spending too much time addressing them would rapidly get dull and we probably won't be seeing them but it was just an idle thought.
 
Chitori would most likely deflect a lightsaber all the same.
But yeah, you're stuck in reality land. Because in fantasy land you've got wind chakra and lightning chakra that already do unstoppable cutting force.
So rather than trying to turn a thing highly impractical to a weapon with the keenest edge, account for all the flaws trough super-advanced sealing arrays, you could take advantage of the rules of this universe and approach the problem from exploiting lightning and wind aspected chakra.

You know... super swords... they're pretty magical. Could you just, I dunno, seal the concept of cut anything onto the blade? Or however, the swords are made. I can't recall there ever being mentioned how these weapons are created.
 
Edifier said:
Chitori would most likely deflect a lightsaber all the same.
But yeah, you're stuck in reality land. Because in fantasy land you've got wind chakra and lightning chakra that already do unstoppable cutting force.
So rather than trying to turn a thing highly impractical to a weapon with the keenest edge, account for all the flaws trough super-advanced sealing arrays, you could take advantage of the rules of this universe and approach the problem from exploiting lightning and wind aspected chakra.

You know... super swords... they're pretty magical. Could you just, I dunno, seal the concept of cut anything onto the blade? Or however, the swords are made. I can't recall there ever being mentioned how these weapons are created.
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If you're talking about the legendary weapons each one has a different underlying network of seals, and is generally crafted from metal highly conductive to chakra.

The exploding sword, of the seven ninja swordsmen of the water village, Has two very simple functions. Regenerating endlessly a stock of high power explosive notes attached to the blade, and directing the explosive force of those notes towards the one being swung on instead of the wielder. Still requires immense durability not to get plastered. Reaction force recoil is still a thing.

Ultimately, every weapon in canon that is unique is based on seals, and has rules that should provide inspiration for the kinds of things which can be done.
 
Edifier said:
You know... super swords... they're pretty magical. Could you just, I dunno, seal the concept of cut anything onto the blade? Or however, the swords are made. I can't recall there ever being mentioned how these weapons are created.
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Sealing concepts is dumb, because if you can seal one thing, you can probably seal another. At which point why not just seal winning into whatever? Isn't winning better than cutting? Or erasing, disintegrating and so on...

Much better to not bring concepts and effects that use/affect/manipulate into stories, any use that does not win instantly marks the protag/user as dumb.
 
demonitter said:
Sealing concepts is dumb, because if you can seal one thing, you can probably seal another. At which point why not just seal winning into whatever? Isn't winning better than cutting? Or erasing, disintegrating and so on...

Much better to not bring concepts and effects that use/affect/manipulate into stories, any use that does not win instantly marks the protag/user as dumb.
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Most seals in canon that had things that could be called conceptual created rules that effect the battlefield, incur a heavy cost on the user, or both.

Sure, you can summon the god of death to eat the soul of your enemy, or force it into a seal. He's gonna take yours as payment though.

A sealing device that can seal anyone on the battlefield into it directly? It requires that they utter a targeting phrase based on rules. Janky as hell.

A converter that can change your chakra nature to any of the five for you? Sure, but it's an absolute chakra hog that requires kage level reserves to use safely.

This is why most sealwork is based on more straightforward uses. Even legendary stuff. Even the flying thunder god seals are just markers necessary to use a jutsu the Yondaime perfected. Just having the kunai they're commonly placed on does you no good.
 
Galacticplumber said:
This is why most sealwork is based on more straightforward uses. Even legendary stuff. Even the flying thunder god seals are just markers necessary to use a jutsu the Yondaime perfected. Just having the kunai they're commonly placed on does you no good.
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Speaking of having some of the Kunai, does the jutsu targeting aim at just the seals or seals + chakra? Because just having the kunai might not allow you to get the jutsu itself, but is sure as hell allows you to develop a disruptor or inhibitor, that either messes any similar signals to mush or spreads vague fake seals that can be detected but not teleported to by the jutsu or simply disables any such seals in a area.

As someone somewhere said at some point, "There are no strongest techniques, only strongest fighters."
 
demonitter said:
Speaking of having some of the Kunai, does the jutsu targeting aim at just the seals or seals + chakra? Because just having the kunai might not allow you to get the jutsu itself, but is sure as hell allows you to develop a disruptor or inhibitor, that either messes any similar signals to mush or spreads vague fake seals that can be detected but not teleported to by the jutsu or simply disables any such seals in a area.

As someone somewhere said at some point, "There are no strongest techniques, only strongest fighters."
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Over a decade after obito had a seal placed on him with a touch, including the death of the one who made the seal, the seal was still there for him to abuse for combat advantage when he revived.

All seals have chakra in them. Elsewise they're doodles and nothing more. You cannot fake a seal to fool the user, because the entire point of the beacon is that they can feel their chakra in it from any distance, and link to it.

Two people who know the jutsu, and cooperate, are capable of using each other's seals. This would be based on chakra sharing. This is only ever relevant when the two people in all of history who know it are brought back to life for the same fight. With the exception of the one on Obito's back no examples of the seal exist outside Konoha.

As for disruption, if you think you can do in an actionable time-frame what the leading living member of the most infamous criminal organization in the world couldn't in over a decade be my guest.

It's not that it's the strongest technique. It's that it's one of two signature techniques of the youngest hokage in history. He had this, Rasengan, got taught toads by Jiraya, a smattering of other teleportation fuinjutsu for attack redirection, the reaper death seal EVERY hokage knows, attempted sage mode he never managed while alive, Some wind style he barely uses, and high speed hand to hand with Kunai.

Using merely the two techs he made himself on that list, he single-handedly murdered half of the entire standing army of Iwagakure, earning him the first designation of flee on sight since they bothered with printing Bingo Books. Not unbeatable mind. He did die. Just don't even both unless you're kage level. The man quite literally set records for the most Jonin level ninja killed in one fight.
 
Fulcon said:
So...bad news everyone.

My Dad is in the hospital due to an infection in his leg. Next update might take a bit.

(I mean, I'll still try but...)
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I can wait. An unhappy stressed author pushing themselves to force something rarely ends well. Some find writing to be a relaxation activity. Some don't. The story will continue when it continues.
 
Hi Fulcon, long time reader (since before the first rewrite) first time commenter here!

I have to say, I'm very impressed with your decision to do a second rewrite. Many authors would simply double down or simply abandon the work entirely. I hadn't checked for an update for quite some time, so coming back and seeing that you had decided to go back and fix the things you felt were wrong was a very pleasant surprise, and catching up to what you've written so far has been very enjoyable and well worth it.

While normally I would be perfectly happy to stay a lurker and enjoy the story as it unfolds, this last chapter set off some alarm bells and I felt compelled to make this account and plead my case.

I dont feel it is a coincidence that the last two times you decided to reboot the story happened shortly after Daisuke acquired godlike power, or was introduced to an entity with godlike power, and I worry that the presence of Fusion Release and Creation Release, as well as the prospect of Fuinjutsu based super technology, means that you intend to go down that path a third time, and strongly urge you to reconsider.

Godlike characters are inherently difficult to write about, as their overwhelming strength means a story has little tension and sense of stakes if they can just resolve their problems effortlessly. In addition, you run in to the problem of the supporting cast becoming superfluous in the face of the kinds of obstacles you would need to place in front of the main character in order to challenge them.

At risk of offending people, I personally find Hisako and Nichiren to be much more interesting than many of the Naruto characters. I would hate to see them get the same treatment as many supporting characters in other Shounen series when the protagonist outstrips them, so again I hope you will reconsider granting Daisuke godlike power or unmatchable resources in the interest of keeping his teammates on a mostly equal level.

In a similar vein, other methods of preventing Daisuke from becoming too power too quickly would be to avoid granting him summons and avoid putting him in a relationship with Anko. Both of these grant him powerful allies he can draw upon, further reducing the importance of his teammates (plus, having seen how a relationship with Anko would develop, I am now more interested in seeing how a relationship with Hisako would develop, further cementing the focus on his team and avoid too much retreading of older plot lines)

I hope you don't take this as too much of a criticism, as it's not intended to be one. You've already taken a number of steps to reduce Daisuke's power by removing Almost Perfect, XP from creating Jutsu and preventing him from easily solving his low Charisma, so I wanted to try and caution you from repeating what I felt would be a similar mistake. Regardless, I look forward to seeing where you take the story next!
 
I feel that Sundowner's analysis is fairly sound, but I believe that I should add my opinion as well. I enjoy the story plenty already, and actively followed the previous versions. That being said, I believe that the story could be made more unique and interesting compared to other works in one simple way. While telling the story from the protagonists perspective is great, I think the story could be even better with interludes, where we see another characters perspective of the events. It would also be a great way to showcase how 'odd' Daisuke is and let yourself take a mental break from getting into a certain state of mind or perspective.
 
I do enjoy interludes that serve a purpose, and even brought up a few options that would be reasonable.

That said, I'm pretty sure Fulcon's problem with the last draft was that he'd disconnected mentally its protagonist, and as such he had to make a fresh start he could connect with. The fact that he didn't get rid of creation release as a concept means he's likely fine with that being the power ceiling. He just intends to go there more slowly which has already been implemented.
 
Galacticplumber said:
I do enjoy interludes that serve a purpose, and even brought up a few options that would be reasonable.

That said, I'm pretty sure Fulcon's problem with the last draft was that he'd disconnected mentally its protagonist, and as such he had to make a fresh start he could connect with. The fact that he didn't get rid of creation release as a concept means he's likely fine with that being the power ceiling. He just intends to go there more slowly which has already been implemented.
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Yeah, and I feel that if Fulcon wants to go for a powerful character, that's cool, but its usually more interesting and rewarding when it takes a lot of buildup and power creep. I fully agree with the mental disconnect idea, its actually the reason I've never finished a story I tried to write, I realized it was not only a story I couldn't get in the right mindset for, but I later came to actually hate it, eventually banishing the story to the depths of the abyss.
 
Fulcon said:
Good news!

Dad's out of the hospital with all his extremities - I was afraid his foot was going to get amputated.

Thank you all for your well wishes. :)
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Glad to hear things are alright! Just curious, was this a sudden unexpected thing or something that had been a problem for a while? I have unfortunately had experience with the former, fainting in the middle of dinner at a hotel, and being shipped to the ER … where they couldn't find anything wrong with me.
 
Fulcon said:
Good news!

Dad's out of the hospital with all his extremities - I was afraid his foot was going to get amputated.

Thank you all for your well wishes. :)
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Kick-ass! To celebrate, it's time for more speculation. In the past I commented that Nichiren was very good at reading situations, and people. Considering who his teammates are, a traumatized cyclops, a shy teammate with a dead parent, and The Man Who Dun Dumped Cha, what if he expanded his early game role to team face? Doing a lot of talking, helping mediate brief conflicts in the team, and just generally mixing social bard into rogue trapper skillset?

It's honestly less about him being supremely good at it, he did have arguments crop up early, so much as everyone else on the team having nasty downsides on the skillset. Kakashi can manage, obviously, but not perfectly.

The reason he isn't a Naruto even if he does go for party face is his previously established cowardice. It's also good motivation for taking that path. Effective negotiation and mediation leads to less fights, which he'd want and is smart enough to see. And even if a fight is inevitable, delaying it gives time for teammates to prepare.
 
GamertagzFTW said:
Just curious, was this a sudden unexpected thing or something that had been a problem for a while?
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For a while. We've been using...at home remedies and it looked like it was getting better but then it wasn't.

My running theory is that some cat-litter got into that open wound on his foot while he was walking past the litter box and it...got inside.

Galacticplumber said:
Kick-ass!
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Indeed!

Galacticplumber said:
To celebrate, it's time for more speculation. In the past I commented that Nichiren was very good at reading situations, and people. Considering who his teammates are, a traumatized cyclops, a shy teammate with a dead parent, and The Man Who Dun Dumped Cha, what if he expanded his early game role to team face? Doing a lot of talking, helping mediate brief conflicts in the team, and just generally mixing social bard into rogue trapper skillset?

It's honestly less about him being supremely good at it, he did have arguments crop up early, so much as everyone else on the team having nasty downsides on the skillset. Kakashi can manage, obviously, but not perfectly.

The reason he isn't a Naruto even if he does go for party face is his previously established cowardice. It's also good motivation for taking that path. Effective negotiation and mediation leads to less fights, which he'd want and is smart enough to see. And even if a fight is inevitable, delaying it gives time for teammates to prepare.
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I will take note of this. Thank you, have a cookie.

aaaaaaaaahhhhhhh said:
that sounds scary, it's weird how fragile our bodies can be...
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Yeah, you learn about the human body and you think 'wow, look how durable and well made this is' and then you learn about all the ways they can be hurt and you think 'why are we made of tissue paper?' it's kind of funny.
 
The reality of our durability, like most things, is that we're juuussssssssst GREAT.... at things we evolved to deal with. Did you know our wounds heal both faster, and more reliably than most other life on the planet but especially other stuff in our weight class? Or the corresponding increased vulnerability to cancer which is generally such a long term, late in life problem that evolution never selected against it?

Our posture is almost completely unique allowing us to do things other animals just can't. Too bad that since it's essentially a new prototype the spine that supports it is a dumpster fire.

Or how our brains are basically unparalleled at interpreting visual data, but that our eyes are so shittily put together that if it weren't for how good our brains are we'd be competing with MOLE RATS, who have a goddamn layer of skin over their eyes, in the vision department?

We as a species essentially min-maxed the FUCK out of our build to obtain multiple unparalleled advantages in exchange for as many penalties as we could make irrelevant in most cases. It's the cases where we can't when we see.... problems.
 
Galacticplumber said:
The reality of our durability, like most things, is that we're juuussssssssst GREAT.... at things we evolved to deal with. Did you know our wounds heal both faster, and more reliably than most other life on the planet but especially other stuff in our weight class? Or the corresponding increased vulnerability to cancer which is generally such a long term, late in life problem that evolution never selected against it?

Our posture is almost completely unique allowing us to do things other animals just can't. Too bad that since it's essentially a new prototype the spine that supports it is a dumpster fire.

Or how our brains are basically unparalleled at interpreting visual data, but that our eyes are so shittily put together that if it weren't for how good our brains are we'd be competing with MOLE RATS, who have a goddamn layer of skin over their eyes, in the vision department?

We as a species essentially min-maxed the FUCK out of our build to obtain multiple unparalleled advantages in exchange for as many penalties as we could make irrelevant in most cases. It's the cases where we can't when we see.... problems.
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This is actually really interesting, would you be willing to go more in to this, maybe in a PM so as not to cause a detail?
 
Sundowner said:
This is actually really interesting, would you be willing to go more in to this, maybe in a PM so as not to cause a detail?
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Even I lack the necessary spoons to go into exhaustive detail on stuff like that. I do recommend looking up CGP grey, kurzgesagt, Vsauce, and so on. You have to understand that extensive trivia comes from years of absorbing content, and that doesn't get communicated quickly. The best I can do is give places to start.

CGP's series on how plagues work, and Kurzgesagt's works on the immune system, viruses, bacteria, and bacteriophages, may be particularly engrossing right now.
 
Nekraa said:
Cool it. You don't get to demand updates from people.
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*Sudden mob of Shinobi the RPG addicts appear*
Chapters!!! Or we'll shitpost this thread!
Yeah we'll do it! I need my Fix!
*Mod appears*
Agh it's a mod! Run! This isn't right guys this is mod abuse! We just wanted chapters...

Lol
 
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