So what's really going on in Worm?

[Guardian54]

"Pfft-heh-HAHAHAHAHA!" is laughter although you do have a point, nothing she did in Canon fell in line with a literate modern girl who sounds like she was only ever either at home or in a library when not at school. Everything she did was one Bad Idea after another and her Background didn't make much sense either*. The best answer for it could be that it's all Flavour Text.

*just to start her mother sounds neglectful and/or an idiot:
1) she is a Professor so why did Taylor get sent to Winslow (which is supposedly known to be shit),
2) why was her mother stupid enough to drive while on the phone in Brockton Bay (if it was literally anywhere else it would make sense),
3) why did Annette allow a twelve year old to choose her school (especially over something like friendship when she could see Emma after school, on the weekends, and holidays).
4) From the sound or it stupidity is a genetic disorder for Taylor
5) and raises the question "Did Annette actually leave Lustrum's movement early or was she thrown out?" because a woman this dumb wouldn't have prematurely guessed it would turn violent.
6) Next is Emma and how being raised close enough to be considered a sister made her latch onto Named Rando #1 rather then Actual Sister #1 (Anne) or Actual Sister #2 (Taylor) when traumatized. And The List Goes On...

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I moved this here to agree. Each individual thing can be made to work and be reasonable. Putting them all together is Drakaverse tier WTF Author Fiat Idiot Balling.

Point by point though from your slab (I chopped it up)...

1. Profs, especially in the Arts,don't tend to be all that well-paid unless they have something on the side. And Annette sounds a bit young to have bestselling novels written on the side.

2. Smart people sometimes do very stupid things, like pick up the phone while driving. But yes, doing it in Brockton Bay is a Darwin Award of the PEBKAC (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair) variety.
Though I've heard it being referred to as texting and driving, which would be FAR STUPIDER. In that case I'd go so far as to claim Annette's rage against the machine tendencies makes me think she might not be a fan of seat belts or biker helmets either...

3. It could be due to Arcadia being expensive enough to be a bit of a stretch? Flimsy as Annette's salary should have been enough to send her only child to Arcadia easily, but yes, in general, letting a middle-schooler choose their high school is INCREDIBLY stupid when it's Shithole vs Not Shithole.
My parents wanted to send me to a private school, but I chose public school due to the price tag on the private school. However, the public school I was going to was the best in my region of the city and considered a strong contender for top public high school in the city period, so... totally different situation.
If Annette had any inkling at all that education was important, she'd have put her foot down on Taylor going to Arcadia. She'd also know that Taylor can't just cling to Emma like a limpet and at the present rate absolutely must be forced to make new friends.
HOWEVER, there's a huge worldbuilding problem: Winslow and Arcadia both seem to start in middle school as Annette died in 2008, while canon is 2011 when Taylor is 15. So Annette died when Taylor was 12, yet Annette wanted Taylor to go to Arcadia, while Taylor picked Winslow and she apparently shrugged it off??? So, you decide the high school before kids are over 1 year from end middle school??

4. Problem is how does the DWU still exist, propped up from catastrophic disintegration by Danny Hebert, when he can't take a school to the cleaners over bioterrorism (nothing about the case suggests cape so pure BBPD stuff, no PRT business here!) and attempted murder. If he was a cape, "Panopticon Among Contractors" would be a very descriptive name for him!

5. I have no idea how the hell that was justified considering every other act of hers seems to be worse than the Picasso level of rationalism.

6. If the two families were close enough that Anne was named for Annette, as is generally agreed, then any one of these is possible in theory:
a) Zoe Barnes would not have put her foot down on Emma and Taylor seeming to "drift apart".
b) Alan Barnes decides not to try to use Taylor to help Emma after the attack. Emma driving Taylor off would be seen as a sign that something's seriously wrong, even a divorce lawyer would be able to see the signs.
c) Danny doesn't keep in enough contact with them, after Alan took him out to screw his head back on mostly straight after Annette died, to try to maintain a facade of normalcy by inviting Emma over often. Which would in turn trigger Zoe AND Anne if they weren't cardboard cutouts (or Mastered by Emma) into noticing something was seriously wrong.

 

[The Unicorn]

While Taylor likes to CLAIM Winslow is a shitty school, every actual description in canon suggests it's actually a pretty decent school, although one in a poor neighberhood and not anywhere near as good as the Magnet school Arcadia. Winslow's teachers might and staff might be absolute garbage at stopping bullying and helping Taylor, but unfortunately that's not something that would be evident in advance and not something that indicates the school doesn't provide decent education to nearly all the students.

When a kid says they don't want to go to a special advanced/better school and wants to stay with the local school, unless the local school has some serious problems it's generally better to let the kid go to the local school. Making a kid hate learning is a great way to prevent them from doing so.

 

[Guardian54]

It's considered the poor school in town

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Moving this here to avoid clutter.
Oh, and you should hear this too, Unicorn.

While Taylor likes to CLAIM Winslow is a shitty school, every actual description in canon suggests it's actually a pretty decent school, although one in a poor neighberhood and not anywhere near as good as the Magnet school Arcadia.

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There are four high schools mentioned in Brockton Bay: Winslow, Arcadia, Immaculata, and Clarendon
If Winslow's considered the poor school in a town with only 4 high schools, eh, sure, that's okay.

Brockton Bay has ABOUT 350K people in early 2011. Suppose this is divided into 70 equal age cohorts i.e. years (I doubt the average life expectancy is much higher than that given the number of constant gang wars and economy, 50 cohorts would make sense except for baby boomer bulge in demographic curves), high school is 4 years, with 5K people per year that's 20,000 high school students. This means a number between 10 and 20 high schools is most probable.

Winslow being the poor school of 10+ schools makes "Losefast" a better name. Thus, the most likely reason Taylor went to Winslow after Annette died is because of money. Annette would have put her foot down if she'd survived that long, so of course we had to get rid of her to get Taylor to make terrible decisions and be clingy while Danny's too depressed to consider forcing Taylor to deal with a strange new environment (and of course MONEY).

And the gangs are known to recruit at Winslow.
Now, the gangs are said to each have like 50-100 grunts by some people.
I VEHEMENTLY disagree as canonical feats i.e. mustering 50+ guys on-call demand a total manpower of closer to 500+ people per gang.
The maximum each gang can have is about 1000 people, beyond that it's more than just a powder keg and would need to be explained by roughly "Hookwolf and Lung have a contract supplying Asian restaurants with dog meat, Hookwolf is actually a dog-lover but knows that very few strays can actually live to be adopted, so raises funds to keep the cuter ones alive by using the less pretty ones to make spectacles--dog-fighting's just the most infamous." level of insanity and "everyone's not even really trying".

What the "50-100" gang grunt count claim says is an uptake of about 10-20 guys a year, assuming a nearly suicidally high attrition rate (20% per year). If Winslow has about 1000 to 1500 students, then 30 (plus a few at other schools) being recruited to the gangs per year looks eminently plausible with the number of skinheads, drug-users, and Asians Taylor sees. And that would be enough to sustain the gangs, so Winslow would be "THE gang school"

Now, if we assume Winslow is the worst of the lot and the recruiting rates are much lower at other schools, Taylor notices more than enough recruitment work to support 30-60 guys being recruited per year (10-20 per gang) from Winslow. If we assume 50 more per gang per year from elsewhere, on a 10% attrition rate that's still 700 guys per gang.

And with recruitment of post-high-school unemployed youths (far easier than recruiting high school students) being a big deal? Even a 20% attrition rate would barely keep things down to 1000 gangers per gang!

 

[D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia]

I moved this here to agree. Each individual thing can be made to work and be reasonable. Putting them all together is Drakaverse tier WTF Author Fiat Idiot Balling.

Point by point though from your slab (I chopped it up)...

1. Profs, especially in the Arts,don't tend to be all that well-paid unless they have something on the side. And Annette sounds a bit young to have bestselling novels written on the side.

2. Smart people sometimes do very stupid things, like pick up the phone while driving. But yes, doing it in Brockton Bay is a Darwin Award of the PEBKAC (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair) variety.
Though I've heard it being referred to as texting and driving, which would be FAR STUPIDER. In that case I'd go so far as to claim Annette's rage against the machine tendencies makes me think she might not be a fan of seat belts or biker helmets either...

3. It could be due to Arcadia being expensive enough to be a bit of a stretch? Flimsy as Annette's salary should have been enough to send her only child to Arcadia easily, but yes, in general, letting a middle-schooler choose their high school is INCREDIBLY stupid when it's Shithole vs Not Shithole.
My parents wanted to send me to a private school, but I chose public school due to the price tag on the private school. However, the public school I was going to was the best in my region of the city and considered a strong contender for top public high school in the city period, so... totally different situation.
If Annette had any inkling at all that education was important, she'd have put her foot down on Taylor going to Arcadia. She'd also know that Taylor can't just cling to Emma like a limpet and at the present rate absolutely must be forced to make new friends.
HOWEVER, there's a huge worldbuilding problem: Winslow and Arcadia both seem to start in middle school as Annette died in 2008, while canon is 2011 when Taylor is 15. So Annette died when Taylor was 12, yet Annette wanted Taylor to go to Arcadia, while Taylor picked Winslow and she apparently shrugged it off??? So, you decide the high school before kids are over 1 year from end middle school??

4. Problem is how does the DWU still exist, propped up from catastrophic disintegration by Danny Hebert, when he can't take a school to the cleaners over bioterrorism (nothing about the case suggests cape so pure BBPD stuff, no PRT business here!) and attempted murder. If he was a cape, "Panopticon Among Contractors" would be a very descriptive name for him!

5. I have no idea how the hell that was justified considering every other act of hers seems to be worse than the Picasso level of rationalism.

6. If the two families were close enough that Anne was named for Annette, as is generally agreed, then any one of these is possible in theory:
a) Zoe Barnes would not have put her foot down on Emma and Taylor seeming to "drift apart".
b) Alan Barnes decides not to try to use Taylor to help Emma after the attack. Emma driving Taylor off would be seen as a sign that something's seriously wrong, even a divorce lawyer would be able to see the signs.
c) Danny doesn't keep in enough contact with them, after Alan took him out to screw his head back on mostly straight after Annette died, to try to maintain a facade of normalcy by inviting Emma over often. Which would in turn trigger Zoe AND Anne if they weren't cardboard cutouts (or Mastered by Emma) into noticing something was seriously wrong.

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Yeah... I got Ranty there for a second... Although the point still stands: she doesn't act like "Literate Modern Girl" she acts more like "Cliché Stupid Teenager" (Although I still like the Idea that Sophia secretly has a Master power since it can patch up quite a few Backstory inconsistencies* with their personalities). Hence the reason I say that Worm treats Backstory like Flavor Text: it's pretty and all but it has no bearing on the Plot nor makes logical sense for the Character.

*such as Emma immediately latching onto her and pushing Taylor away in less then a week, Emma's family being a-okay with not being in contact with their extended family (especially Anne who you would think would in two years want to see her pseudo-sister and start asking questions like "what the hell, Taylor?!" (If Emma is blaming Taylor that is)), Taylor acting like a fucking idiot whenever possible.

 

[The Unicorn]

There are four high schools mentioned in Brockton Bay: Winslow, Arcadia, Immaculata, and Clarendon
If Winslow's considered the poor school in a town with only 4 high schools, eh, sure, that's okay.

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except we have no idea how Winslow compares academically or otherwise with Immaculata or Clarendon, that was my point. The only school Winslow gets compared to is Arcadia. Coming second to a magnet school(My head!canon for Arcadia), or even just a school serving a rich district is not only okay, it's expected. Winslow beating, or even just matching Arcadia would be a "man bites dog" type story.

As for the other schools? We have no idea how the compare. There is the Fanon about Immaculetta being a private Catholic school (supported by the name) or it being dominated by E88, or whatever, but there isn't anything in canon about how it compares academically with Winslow, and we know even less about Clarendon.

As for "The gangs recruit at Winslow", yah so what? That does not actually indicate the gangs do anything to disrupt classes, or that the classes are inferior for some other reason.

Yeah... I got Ranty there for a second... Although the point still stands: she doesn't act like "Literate Modern Girl" she acts more like "Cliché Stupid Teenager"

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That reminds me, is there any canon evidence to support the fanon that Taylor is a well read teenager? While her mother can be presumed to have been well read and intrested in books, I can't recall anything in canon that indicates Taylor inherited that interest, or that Taylor's parents managed to get her to read a lot.

Taylor's encrypted journal is evidence of her mathematical skill and interest, but I can't think of anything equivalent for reading.

 

[Jonakhensu]

So, before I make a mistake with this, I figure I might as well ask.

Do we know what canonically happens with any insects in Taylor's control radius when she is unconscious? Is that different than when she's been anesthetized?

I'm reasonably sure she loses control in both cases, but I can't remember if it was ever explicitly spelled out.

 

[Guardian54]

As for "The gangs recruit at Winslow", yah so what? That does not actually indicate the gangs do anything to disrupt classes, or that the classes are inferior for some other reason.

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How many kids get recruited per year from Winslow?

Because if you add in sporadic recruitment at each of the other schools as 1x to 2x (not >5x from 10 other schools as should be the case if Winslow isn't quite the absolute worst high school, just close to being the worst) the total Winslow recruitment rate, then the gangs only being a hundred or so guys each (by things that have been cited at me too often) makes NO sense unless the attrition rate is obscene enough to terrify even teenage recruits (as in higher than 1-bullet Russian Roulette).

From 300-ish graduates per year, I expect the gangs to each get at least 5 people. Say that's 10-15 people TOTAL direct from high schools per gang per year. Add other recruitment such as unemployed youths in general and we're looking at at least 30 recruits per year per gang.

If the gangs are about 100 people each that means at least 30% attrition rate per year. That's Black Death levels of attrition.

And that only requires Winslow be the second or third worst high school in gang recruitment (closely related to education quality), with only 5 people to E88, 5 to ABB and 5 to Merchants on average per year. How many druggies are in Winslow? Seemingly so much more than that that I vastly doubt it's 5 Merchants per year produced.

So "the gangs recruit noticeably from Winslow" from someone as socially awful as Taylor is incredibly damning of a school's quality. More so if the gangs are (unrealistically) small.

If the gangs are much larger though, Winslow for being one of their noticeable feeder sources would still have to be pretty awful. It isn't the school Danny remembers from his time anymore...

That reminds me, is there any canon evidence to support the fanon that Taylor is a well read teenager? While her mother can be presumed to have been well read and intrested in books, I can't recall anything in canon that indicates Taylor inherited that interest, or that Taylor's parents managed to get her to read a lot.

Taylor's encrypted journal is evidence of her mathematical skill and interest, but I can't think of anything equivalent for reading.

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The amount of time she spends at the public library, basically whenever she's not at home? Well what's she doing there? Counting roof tiles? If it was just computer access Annette would have bought her a newer one before her death, because triapsing all over the Bay like that isn't exactly safe.

Conclusion? Books.

She also makes enough literary references to give someone who doesn't look at actions and decisions too much the impression that she's supposed to be well-read.

 

[The Unicorn]

How many kids get recruited per year from Winslow?

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We don't know, and it doesn't matter. Kids don't get recruited into gangs by convincing them to take drugs, or commit crimes. They get recruited by joining a group of friends, and spending time with them having fun, and then someone asks for a harmless favor... Most kids will continue attending school after they join a gang and will continue studying as much as they did before (i.e not a lot).

So "the gangs recruit noticeably from Winslow" from someone as socially awful as Taylor is incredibly damning of a school's quality.

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Not at all.

The amount of time she spends at the public library, basically whenever she's not at home?

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1)Cite please. I don't recall Taylor spending all her free time in the library.
2)Whenever we see her in the library she heads directly to the computers and goes online, not even looking at the books. Basically the only times we actually see her in the library (that I recall) she was using it for free, anonymous internet, not a traditional library.

She also makes enough literary references to give someone who doesn't look at actions and decisions too much the impression that she's supposed to be well-read

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Now that's the sort of thing I was looking for. Examples?

 

[SwiftRosenthal]

Soooo... I heard about this thing... that All Seeing Eyes knows everything... it's like she's Sherlock Holmes in a cute blonde package or sumthing. :3

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I'm not 100% on this, but I think that All_Seeing_Eye being Lisa is canon.

The_Winged_One being Ziz is total fanon though.

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Nope. Tattletale's canon username is Tt.

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I can't even find All_Seeing_Eye with some googling/searching of the text itself, much less confirm it's Tattletale. Toss it in the fanon hole.

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Nope. we don't know what her username is, just that in a post she wrote to Taylor in the "connections section" she signed her post Tt.

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The person who first brought up All_Seeing_Eye in this thread is the same tanuki who invented that fanon in the first place (for Goblin Queen).

I'm facepalming so hard right now.

 

[Nekraa]

The person who first brought up All_Seeing_Eye in this thread is the same tanuki who invented that fanon in the first place (for Goblin Queen).

I'm facepalming so hard right now.

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A certain tanuki also invented the fanon that Squealer is some super busty woman. While canon remains quiet on the issue.

Also, IIRC we know of at least one student from Immaculata, a guy "recruited" by Bakuda.

"You." Bakuda called out, startling us. She wasn't paying attention to us, though. A Korean-American guy in a private school uniform – from Immaculata High, in the nicest part of the city – was cringing in front of her.

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https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/shell-4-8/

Well, a girl is mentioned in 4.7 to wear Immaculata's uniform. But nothing else is stated about her aside from being Taylor's age.

 

[Biigoh]

The person who first brought up All_Seeing_Eye in this thread is the same tanuki who invented that fanon in the first place (for Goblin Queen).

I'm facepalming so hard right now.

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Yesh... and it amuses me that my fanon is now considered 'canon'... :3

A certain tanuki also invented the fanon that Squealer is some super busty woman. While canon remains quiet on the issue.

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Squealer IS on the bigger side thou, according to unreliable narrator Taylor in canon.

 

[Nekraa]

Squealer IS on the bigger side thou, according to unreliable narrator Taylor in canon.

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Cite it

Edit: Seriously though, I remember checking it long ago and there was nothing about Squealer's bust.

 

[Guardian54]

Squealer IS on the bigger side thou, according to unreliable narrator Taylor in canon.

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We're talking about Taylor Hebert, who some folks (e.g. "That Gnawing Worm, Cancer") have said is so depressed she might have kwashiokor or whatever that malnutrition condition is spelled as, based on the flat, stick-thin except for a swollen belly description.

And it sounded completely sensible. We can only conclude that Taylor just doesn't eat enough to develop properly. On that note, does she even get periods during canon (big problem with enhanced senses i.e. Lung as potential enemies)? If not, well...

Spoiler: More curves than Taylor thinks she has

 

[Biigoh]

Cite it

Edit: Seriously though, I remember checking it long ago and there was nothing about Squealer's bust.

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Infestation 11.5
His girlfriend was at his side, her shoulder touching his. Squealer was streaked with oil stains, with some even in her hair. She wore a white top and jean shorts that were each so skimpy that she was more indecent than she'd be if she had been naked. She had a remote control in one hand, and her makeup was practically caked on. Not so dissimilar from the girl we'd just rescued, in that respect.

Tanuki admits defeat~ :3

 

[Nekraa]

Infestation 11.5
His girlfriend was at his side, her shoulder touching his. Squealer was streaked with oil stains, with some even in her hair. She wore a white top and jean shorts that were each so skimpy that she was more indecent than she'd be if she had been naked. She had a remote control in one hand, and her makeup was practically caked on. Not so dissimilar from the girl we'd just rescued, in that respect.

Tanuki admits defeat~ :3

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*patpats innocent tanuki*

It happens. And looking at my post where I checked before, it was almost four years ago. Thus we'd have read canon even further back in time, not strange if we mix up canon.

 

[Melmar]

To quote (this was cut & pasted from my original source):

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Wait a minute... There are departments in Dallas, Fort Worth, and Arlington? That seems a little excessive seeing how Fort Worth and Dallas are practically touch and Arlington is in between them. At most you'd need one in Fort Worth and one in Dallas since they're in separate counties. Arlington's in Tarrant county and literally right next to Fort Worth so it could easily be served by the Fort Worth department.

I can't believe I missed that the last time I read this list.

 

[Chastity]

Wait a minute... There are departments in Dallas, Fort Worth, and Arlington? That seems a little excessive seeing how Fort Worth and Dallas are practically touch and Arlington is in between them. At most you'd need one in Fort Worth and one in Dallas since they're in separate counties. Arlington's in Tarrant county and literally right next to Fort Worth so it could easily be served by the Fort Worth department.

I can't believe I missed that the last time I read this list.

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The numbered departments are I think literally just the 64 largest cities in the USA in order. When they're clumped up close they tend to have different emphases. They're identified with specific cities, I think in part for PR reasons (c.f. sports teams); it's not really a "how big of an area can we police" since the PRT has plenty of smaller offices in other areas and the largest cities don't get doubled departments or anything.

 

[Melmar]

The numbered departments are I think literally just the 64 largest cities in the USA in order. When they're clumped up close they tend to have different emphases. They're identified with specific cities, I think in part for PR reasons (c.f. sports teams); it's not really a "how big of an area can we police" since the PRT has plenty of smaller offices in other areas and the largest cities don't get doubled departments or anything.

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Fair enough. That does make me wonder what's going on in Arlington that would warrant its own department. Trying to keep Jerry Jones contained?

 

[Guardian54]

Fair enough. That does make me wonder what's going on in Arlington that would warrant its own department. Trying to keep Jerry Jones contained?

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The sign over Arlington Cemetery is obviously "SHAKER/MASTER: BEWARE OF ZOMBIES!"

 

[SwiftRosenthal]

The sign over Arlington Cemetery is obviously "SHAKER/MASTER: BEWARE OF ZOMBIES!"

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Arlington, Texas, not Arlington, Virginia. The one was probably named after the other, though.

 

[MissileTeatime]

That reminds me, is there any canon evidence to support the fanon that Taylor is a well read teenager? While her mother can be presumed to have been well read and intrested in books, I can't recall anything in canon that indicates Taylor inherited that interest, or that Taylor's parents managed to get her to read a lot.

Taylor's encrypted journal is evidence of her mathematical skill and interest, but I can't think of anything equivalent for reading.

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Try re-reading 1.1? She's got her book there she was planning to read (a biography of the Triumvirate), but I imagine it could be argued that she just needed stuff to fill time and I don't recall well enough without rereading myself.

We're talking about Taylor Hebert, who some folks (e.g. "That Gnawing Worm, Cancer") have said is so depressed she might have kwashiokor or whatever that malnutrition condition is spelled as, based on the flat, stick-thin except for a swollen belly description.

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That is specifically one of the AU things in "That Gnawing Worm, Cancer". In general that's a plausible way things could have been but is definitely not the case by the time start of canon rolls around. At the start of canon, Taylor had been doing her running for months, and I guarantee that means she would have been eating.

(Also I think she notes at some point that she used to look like an upright frog, i.e. that she doesn't anymore at that point in time?)

On that note, does she even get periods during canon (big problem with enhanced senses i.e. Lung as potential enemies)? If not, well...

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The only time I recall it being mentioned, she mentioned that she hadn't for a couple months due to all the stress and craziness. The start of that several-months period would have to be after her first fight with Lung, the one in arc 1.

Why would enhanced senses be able to pick up blood under clothes, but not general sweat/body odor stuff? (I'm assuming we're not talking about not weird senses that detect specifically blood.)

 

[Guardian54]

(Also I think she notes at some point that she used to look like an upright frog, i.e. that she doesn't anymore at that point in time?)

The only time I recall it being mentioned, she mentioned that she hadn't for a couple months due to all the stress and craziness. The start of that several-months period would have to be after her first fight with Lung, the one in arc 1.

Why would enhanced senses be able to pick up blood under clothes, but not general sweat/body odor stuff? (I'm assuming we're not talking about not weird senses that detect specifically blood.)

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My impression of Taylor's self-care skills are FUBAR from A Cloudy Path and remembering the canon line where she talked about looking like an upright frog, so... not exactly a fair perspective but given she was unsubtly suicidal in canon... :/

No periods due to extreme stress almost always requires too-low body fat to actually kick in.

Lots of animals are GREAT at smelling blood in particular.

 

[MissileTeatime]

but given she was unsubtly suicidal in canon... :/

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Not that I recall, no. At least, I didn't pick up on it. Tattletale noticing it doesn't count, as her ability to pick up on that kind of thing is by definition superhuman.

Lots of animals are GREAT at smelling blood in particular.

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My point is, if the enhanced senses are able to pick up "hey, there's blood under them there clothes" (and aren't a super-sense that only detects blood), then it seems to me they should be just as able to pick up non-blood body odors. So why would presence or absence of blood make a difference?

 

[Guardian54]

My point is, if the enhanced senses are able to pick up "hey, there's blood under them there clothes" (and aren't a super-sense that only detects blood), then it seems to me they should be just as able to pick up non-blood body odors. So why would presence or absence of blood make a difference?

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Sensitivity? And the number of sensor signatures to sort out? "Well I can smell four distinct scents, but only one blood trail" is a great way for the blood trail to be used to track whoever is bleeding!

And menstrual blood almost certainly has a different smell from normal due to the other chemicals mixed in.

 

[The Unicorn]

Try re-reading 1.1? She's got her book there she was planning to read (a biography of the Triumvirate), but I imagine it could be argued that she just needed stuff to fill time and I don't recall well enough without rereading myself.

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Are you referring to:

Lunch on the toilet was routine now. Every school day, I would finish off my brown bag lunch, then I'd do homework or read a book until lunch hour was over. The only book in my bag that I hadn't already read was called 'Triumvirate', a biography of the leading three members of the Protectorate. I was thinking I would spend as long as I could on Mr. Gladly's assignment before reading, because I wasn't enjoying the book. Biographies weren't my thing, and they were especially not my thing when I was suspicious it was all made up.

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Because I read that as a teenager being forced to read a book she didn't enjoy, and finding reading a book while hiding in the toilet being not as bad as hiding in the toilet without anything to do.

(Also I think she notes at some point that she used to look like an upright frog, i.e. that she doesn't anymore at that point in time?)

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Keep in mind the one who described her as "an upright frog" was Taylor 'poor self image' Hebert.

 

[MissileTeatime]

The Unicorn:

That's the part I was thinking of, yes. That seems to be solidly the later type. (I suppose we could debate meanings of "well read", but I don't see a point.)

My point referencing the "upright frog" description was the past tense. *shrug*

 

[Prince Charon]

While Taylor likes to CLAIM Winslow is a shitty school, every actual description in canon suggests it's actually a pretty decent school, although one in a poor neighberhood and not anywhere near as good as the Magnet school Arcadia. Winslow's teachers might and staff might be absolute garbage at stopping bullying and helping Taylor, but unfortunately that's not something that would be evident in advance and not something that indicates the school doesn't provide decent education to nearly all the students.

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Consider, please, that the definition of 'shitty school' that Taylor is using may not be the one that you are using, and may not include any criteria that could be easily discovered in advance.

 

[The Unicorn]

Consider, please, that the definition of 'shitty school' that Taylor is using may not be the one that you are using, and may not include any criteria that could be easily discovered in advance.

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No argument there.. My point is not "Taylor claiming it's a shitty school doesn't make sense", because it makes perfect sense. My point is "The fanon that Winslow is the worst school in the city, known by everyone to be a shitty school" has no actual support in canon, and in fact does not match the descriptions we see in canon.

 

[Guardian54]

No argument there.. My point is not "Taylor claiming it's a shitty school doesn't make sense", because it makes perfect sense. My point is "The fanon that Winslow is the worst school in the city, known by everyone to be a shitty school" has no actual support in canon, and in fact does not match the descriptions we see in canon.

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I seem to recall people claiming there are gang tags and colors shown in various places in Winslow. But I can set that aside as fanon... IF you can show me your MATH (as described below)


You haven't addressed the basic demographics problems: 375K Brocktonites yield about 4/50ths in high school or 30,000 high school students. That's 20 schools if it's 1500 people each. If the high school age cohort is slightly smaller than that, say 4/60th or 25,000 students, we can go down to 20 high schools of 1250 students each, or even 1200 students each and still be fully reasonable.

So tell me, what are the gang sizes and their attrition rates like? Because TAYLOR (who is not well connected socially) knowing the gangs recruit at Winslow means they're picking up at least about 5 "new friends" per year per gang in unsubtle enough fashion she notices. Given canon mention of noticing skinheads and druggies, it seems more likely to me to be along the lines of 10 guys per year per gang.

Add recruitment at the other circa 20 high schools (at least 3x if Winslow is THE ABSOLUTE WORST, or over 5x, closer to 10x, if Winslow is Not Quite The Worst), and post-high-school recruitment of unemployed youth (at least equal to at-school recruitment)? We're looking at Total Recruitment of 8x Winslow Recruitment if Winslow is THE WORST, or 20x Winslow Recruitment if they are not the worst.


WHAT ABOUT THE GANGS END?

Here's my estimates for the absolute maximum possible numbers of gang members, including the grunts on logistics and gang business ventures: 1500 each, totalling 1.2% of Brockton Bay's population. That's enough to make powder kegs everywhere and to rouse up 100-man raids at night if need be.
A more reasonable maximum is 1000 each of ABB, E88 and Merchants, totalling 0.8% of the BB population. It's still enough for 100-man raids with one to two days warning, or 50-man raids at the drop of a hat (e.g. canon First Lung Fight).

Attrition rates cannot be greater than about 20% per annum (MAYBE 30% if counting jail, which is temporary) and still recruit as relatively easily as canon suggests with the gangers being treated as completely expendable.


LOWER BOUNDS?

If Winslow is THE WORST?
Winslow's recruitment (more Merchants and ABB, less Empire proportionately if Immaculata being dominated by the Empire is a true rumour) of 5 guys per year per gang would support (at 3x as much from all other schools, equal out-of-school recruitment to in-school) 40 new gangers per gang per year. On a (maximum sane) 20% attrition rate, that's 200 members per gang, vastly greater than some claims I've heard from canon-familiar folks (of like 50 members per gang or something else absurdly small).

If Winslow is Not Quite The Worst?
Going off 5 guys per gang per year at Winslow, 20x that is 100 new gang members per gang per year, on a 20% attrition rate that's 500 members per gang, a 10% attrition rate would be 1000.
Still, 100 dead gangers per gang per year is 300 dead gangers per year, and when gang violence against non-gangers is more common than gang clashes due to fear of enemy capes? Taylor should actually be ASTOUNDED to not be lulled to sleep by distant gunfire on any given night she has her window open.

And then there's "Winslow is only strictly worse than Arcadia" option, which, well...
If an average of 5 new gangers per year per gang is typical across all 20 schools, and out-of-high-school recruitment equals in-highschool recruitment due to mass unemployment? 200 new gangers per gang per year, 1000 members per gang assuming 20% attrition. More if attrition is lower.

Please note these use the lower bound of 5 new gangers per gang per year at Winslow, the minimum level I can accept as "clearly and regularly noticed by a socially-isolated introvert like Taylor Hebert". If you think that should be adjusted upward according to the skinheads and ABB prospectives she notices in her classes, be my guest.


MY RULES?
If canon organization statistics are incompatible with the logistics required for the plot, then the statistics are wrong because the author didn't work out the logistics beforehand. Plot Demands > WoG and In-Story Stats, every time.

 

[Chastity]

Here's my estimates for the absolute maximum possible numbers of gang members, including the grunts on logistics and gang business ventures: 1500 each, totalling 1.2% of Brockton Bay's population. That's enough to make powder kegs everywhere and to rouse up 100-man raids at night if need be.

Click to shrink...

The gang population of Chicago in 2012 was estimated at 150,000, or 5.5% of its population of 2,714,000.