Star Wars! Spoilers Allowed So Beware!

[Irdiumstern]

Lando aced the character. Alden sounded and acted like a lost child, which could have worked for an origin story if it had been done well.
My main problems with his character:
Han Solo is the quintessential guile hero. Alden looks and acts more like the traditional action hero.
Alden's successes are all away from the action or just brawn based. He solves problems for the party with his piloting twice, but both times are just alden sitting there looking concentrated in a way that makes me think skill check passed, move on.
We've got han solo as a cynical scoundrel with a heart of gold. In it for the money, but willing to help his friends. Alden is at best chaotic good leaning neutral good. The whole bait and switch bad guy scene near the end was unnecessary, very wtf, and read lawful good to me, which is not an impression i should get from han solo.

The rest of the cast didn't particularely impress me either (I expected much better from woody harrelson in particular). Danerys was better than expected, but that derives mainly from how low my expectations for her were. As i said, Lando captured the character perfectly. I have no trouble believing the lando we saw here could be the one we saw in the OT with a bit of seasoning. I personally liked his droid, but I can see how that could be divisive.
5/10 for me.

 

[Cambrian]

Just saw Solo last night. It was... okay?

Honestly, as someone who grew up on Star Wars novels and more specifically as someone who read the original Han Solo Trilogy a dozen times at least, it's hard for me to get into this movie given how much they changed/squandered/set aside.

I've tried to look at the movie objectively and as its own thing, and in that it's pretty much fine but not much more than that.

That said, my biggest problem with the movie has to be their portrayal of Lando as a cheat.

As far as I remember from the books, while Lando WAS a conman at times, he was also a professional gambler. He should have won the first match in the movie fair and square, and Han should have won the last match of the movie fair and square. Just dumb to make the character a cheater, like Lando couldn't win without cheating. Cheapens the character, which I think Donald Glover pulled off beautifully, to be clear.

Other big problem with the movie is them never explaining how Han somehow understands wookie. This is another thing that bothers me because of the books I suppose. Han's backstory explained his knowledge of wookie and his willingness to get so close to Chewbacca rather well, by making the only mother figure he has as a child growing up a wookie.

But here we get some crazy nocturnal fish thing Lady Proxima, and it's made absolutely clear that Han never leaves Corellia's for much of his life soooo where the fuck is he conversing with wookies enough to understand them?

Hah, now that I'm typing this out, Corellia is another thing that bugs me about this movie. Everyone in the movie seems to immediately see Corellia as a huge scum place, like the entire world isn't worth shit. But this isn't true in the books, and it shouldn't be true in the movie either.

Corellia, in the movie, is established as an Imperial Shipyard. It's also a well-known Shipyard in the books as well. But then, why the fuck isn't the wealth of being one of the galaxy's biggest shipyards visible at all?

Yes, Corellia should still have slums and should still have lower-class poverty-stricken citizens. Yes, it can still have Lady Proxima and a criminal element and all that shit.

But the entire planet should not be written off by everyone Han meets as scummy and disgusting and a place to get away from. There has to be an upper-class on Corellia somewhere, the people in charge of the shipyards making bank. There's gotta be the glistening golden towers looking out over the slums that the rich and mighty look down from, even if those rich and mighty are Imperial Governors and the like. It just doesn't make sense for Corellia to somehow fall in with the likes of Nar Shaddaa or Tatooine in terms of shitty reputation. If Corellia was truly as bad as those places, the Imperials wouldn't have a fucking shipyard there.

Or perhaps better put, because the Imperials have such a presence on Corellia, the criminal elements should be struggling, especially the alien ones. Where the hell is the empire's anti-alien rhetoric here?

EDIT: In terms of what I liked about the movie...

I actually liked the characters and the actors/actresses who portrayed them. Out of all of them, I suppose the new guy playing Han is kind of meh, but he wasn't actually as bad as I thought he would be. I could see him growing into the role if they did more Solo movies (which they're clearly trying to do with that open ending)

I just felt like the story was kind of wasted on the characters/actors/actresses. It didn't really grab me at all.

 

[MobiusOneDT]

I saw Solo over the weekend.

It's not the best Star Wars movie by any means, but I had fun with it once it got going. Probably enjoyed it more than The Last Jedi at least. The whole escape from Kessel into the Maw was a thing of beauty.

EDIT: But I do think a few things were kinda dumb. Like the Darth Maul reveal near the end, which might be the most pointless thing ever.

Also Qira might be the worst acted character in the movie, like I can see why people were talking shit about Emilia Clarke.

Alden was surprisingly good when he was in the zone. Like Cambrian said, I could see this guy growing into his role with more practice.

 

[Drak4806]

There's a theory floating around about how Qira is force sensitive and will become Maul's apprentice and might be Rey's mother. I think it could be kind interesting but this is Disney we're talking about so we know that's not going to happen.

 

[MobiusOneDT]

There's a theory floating around about how Qira is force sensitive and will become Maul's apprentice and might be Rey's mother. I think it could be kind interesting but this is Disney we're talking about so we know that's not going to happen.

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Rey's Parents and Snoke's identity are in a race to see who can come up with the dumbest theories already. There is no reason to add to the fire. Maul apparently does little of note between now and when he dies in Rebels. So if that did happen, it would essentially be a waste of time on everyone's behalf.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Luke managed telekinesis when all he had was maybe half an hour of deflecting shots. He had no way of even knowing that telekinesis was possible. At least Rey knew that what she was going for could be accomplished.

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So... just ignoring the two years of time to practice he had between IV and V then?

 

[Smuthunter]

So... just ignoring the two years of time to practice he had between IV and V then?

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What practice and with what teacher? Are you suggesting that Luke was self-taught? Because if he was then there's no argument against Rey not learning exactly the same way.

 

[MadGreenSon]

What practice and with what teacher? Are you suggesting that Luke was self-taught? Because if he was then there's no argument against Rey not learning exactly the same way.

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He had three years to mess around with it and managed to pull his lightsaber a few feet and you're saying accomplishing the same and more in no time at all is the same? Okay.

 

[rick1497]

He had three years to mess around with it and managed to pull his lightsaber a few feet and you're saying accomplishing the same and more in no time at all is the same? Okay.

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Three years to mess around? He was busy fighting for the rebellion. And the only thing he had any idea on what to do was predict blasters. So he might have gotten some experience deflecting blaster shots in his little amount of free time, but there was no way for him to even know that telekinesis was possible, much less learn how to do it.

 

[Imabot]

Three years to mess around? He was busy fighting for the rebellion. And the only thing he had any idea on what to do was predict blasters. So he might have gotten some experience deflecting blaster shots in his little amount of free time, but there was no way for him to even know that telekinesis was possible, much less learn how to do it.

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Dude. Luka saw how Ben could manipulate minds of others and make his own body disappear, communicate with him from beyond grave and even taught him basics of how to sense incomming attacks without need of using your physical senses. Moving small object few feet seems very plausible. Luke migh even hear tales of what Jedi could do in that time. From Leila for example. She did hear a lot of stories about Jedi from her father who did fight along side Jedi durring Clone Wars. She might share some of them with Luke.

And If QQ SB and SV taught me anything is that when you get ability to use supernatural power you will test what you can do with it. Especially whrn yyo hear what masters of the Force did with a little effort.

 

[aquinas]

Dude. Luka saw how Ben could manipulate minds of others and make his own body disappear, communicate with him from beyond grave and even taught him basics of how to sense incomming attacks without need of using your physical senses. Moving small object few feet seems very plausible. Luke migh even hear tales of what Jedi could do in that time. From Leila for example. She did hear a lot of stories about Jedi from her father who did fight along side Jedi durring Clone Wars. She might share some of them with Luke.

And If QQ SB and SV taught me anything is that when you get ability to use supernatural power you will test what you can do with it. Especially whrn yyo hear what masters of the Force did with a little effort.

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rick1497, moreover the Death Star shows us he's willing to experiment while he was "busy fighting for the rebellion."

 

[rick1497]

Dude. Luka saw how Ben could manipulate minds of others and make his own body disappear, communicate with him from beyond grave and even taught him basics of how to sense incomming attacks without need of using your physical senses. Moving small object few feet seems very plausible. Luke migh even hear tales of what Jedi could do in that time. From Leila for example. She did hear a lot of stories about Jedi from her father who did fight along side Jedi durring Clone Wars. She might share some of them with Luke.

And If QQ SB and SV taught me anything is that when you get ability to use supernatural power you will test what you can do with it. Especially whrn yyo hear what masters of the Force did with a little effort.

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Aside from his body disappearing, which could have easily been something else, everything Luke saw Ben do was a purely mental ability. Suddenly directly effecting the physical world is not the same thing.

rick1497, moreover the Death Star shows us he's willing to experiment while he was "busy fighting for the rebellion."

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That wasn't experimenting, that was using the same sensing as when he was deflecting the tiny blaster bolts from the floating orb. And he didn't do it on his own initiative, Ben told him to do it.

 

[Imabot]

Suddenly directly effecting the physical world is not the same thing.

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Ben used a Mind Trick on Storm Trooper. Affected physical brain of of other person to create mental compulsion.

Mind is not some supernatural phenomenon that exist outside physical world.

 

[Aleph]

Ben used a Mind Trick on Storm Trooper. Affected physical brain of of other person to create mental compulsion.

Mind is not some supernatural phenomenon that exist outside physical world.

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Ben is a ghost, your argument is invalid.

 

[Biigoh]

Aside from his body disappearing, which could have easily been something else, everything Luke saw Ben do was a purely mental ability. Suddenly directly effecting the physical world is not the same thing.

That wasn't experimenting, that was using the same sensing as when he was deflecting the tiny blaster bolts from the floating orb. And he didn't do it on his own initiative, Ben told him to do it.

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I need to ask you if you've watched the entire Original Star Wars Trilogy.

Because if so, I will need to refer you to the Dagoba scene with Yoda.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Three years to mess around? He was busy fighting for the rebellion. And the only thing he had any idea on what to do was predict blasters. So he might have gotten some experience deflecting blaster shots in his little amount of free time, but there was no way for him to even know that telekinesis was possible, much less learn how to do it.

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I realize you have chosen to die on this hill, and I can respect that. But clarify for me, are you saying that Luke, who had three years after being shown beyond all doubt that he both has the Force and it is capable of some amazing shit being able to, with great effort, pull his lightsaber a few feet is the same as Rey doing mind tricks and lightsaber fighting and all the rest with no instruction or time to try and practice anything?

Here's another thing I realized: Luke was a pussy. I mean seriously, he lost fights all the time when he was put up against non-mooks. The one time he started winning a fight, that was also a losing move. He didn't even get to fight Boba Fett, not that he counts as a non-mook since he got taken out by a blind guy that didn't even know he was there.

Even when he won fights, it was because he had backup, not because he was just that damn good.

Death Star I? If Han hadn't come back, Luke would have been vaporized by his Dad.
Jabba's sail barge? Leia handled Jabba, blind Han kicked Fett's ass, and he was being backed up by the most powerful war droid from the Clone Wars: R2-D2*. Chewie and Lando were there too.

The one time Luke got to actually kick some ass on his own was during the Battle of Hoth when he crashed his speeder and took out an AT-AT with the ballsiest move seen on a battlefield since the Clone Wars. He then spent most of the rest of the movie getting abused by Muppet or getting a giant plate of his own ass handed to him by Darth Vader. Which is likely his punishment for looking cool for once.

Oh! And during Jedi he made a grown man cry by killing his beloved pet. So there's that.

*Full name: R2 FUCKING D2

 

[Aleph]

I realize you have chosen to die on this hill, and I can respect that. But clarify for me, are you saying that Luke, who had three years after being shown beyond all doubt that he both has the Force and it is capable of some amazing shit being able to, with great effort, pull his lightsaber a few feet is the same as Rey doing mind tricks and lightsaber fighting and all the rest with no instruction or time to try and practice anything?

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Did you watch the Wampa scene? It's pretty clear that this is not Luke using a well-honed skill that he's developed through three years of practice. It's him trusting in the Force in a life-or-death moment. It's a pivotal moment in his character arc that's reflected on Dagobah.

If Luke knew beyond all doubt that the Force can do amazing shit, why is he so skeptical when Yoda tells him to lift the X-Wing? He doesn't just protest that it's too big for him to lift now, he protests that it's impossible - and when Yoda does it, he doesn't go "well, you're a master, I'm not," he's dumbfounded. Luke doesn't believe and that's why he fails. In the cave he believed and that's why he succeeded.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Did you watch the Wampa scene? It's pretty clear that this is not Luke using a well-honed skill that he's developed through three years of practice. It's him trusting in the Force in a life-or-death moment. It's a pivotal moment in his character arc that's reflected on Dagobah.

If Luke knew beyond all doubt that the Force can do amazing shit, why is he so skeptical when Yoda tells him to lift the X-Wing? He doesn't just protest that it's too big for him to lift now, he protests that it's impossible - and when Yoda does it, he doesn't go "well, you're a master, I'm not," he's dumbfounded. Luke doesn't believe and that's why he fails. In the cave he believed and that's why he succeeded.

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I think you're taking more away from that than I intended. Luke knew the Force was a thing that he had access to and knew the Force could do amazing shit. Like let him block blasterfire and whatever else Ben showed him on the trip to Alderaan. I don't know about you, but I think the shit Luke knew about up to that point was pretty fucking amazing.

 

[Aleph]

I think you're taking more away from that than I intended. Luke knew the Force was a thing that he had access to and knew the Force could do amazing shit. Like let him block blasterfire and whatever else Ben showed him on the trip to Alderaan. I don't know about you, but I think the shit Luke knew about up to that point was pretty fucking amazing.

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Really? Because he clearly didn't believe it was possible to move an X-Wing, and I think it was pretty clear that he didn't even know he could pull the Lightsaber when he did. Watch the scene again - he tries to dig his legs out, then reaches for it physically twice, then gives up for a moment. Then the music picks up and he finally makes the leap of faith to pull it. That's not the behavior of someone who's used to thinking about the Force as an amazing tool.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Really? Because he clearly didn't believe it was possible to move an X-Wing, and I think it was pretty clear that he didn't even know he could pull the Lightsaber when he did. Watch the scene again - he tries to dig his legs out, then reaches for it physically twice, then gives up for a moment. Then the music picks up and he finally makes the leap of faith to pull it. That's not the behavior of someone who's used to thinking about the Force as an amazing tool.

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It such a minor point I'm unwilling to waste any more text on it. Consider it a "win" for you, if you want.

 

[rick1497]

Ben used a Mind Trick on Storm Trooper. Affected physical brain of of other person to create mental compulsion.

Mind is not some supernatural phenomenon that exist outside physical world.

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Effected the mind of someone. That is different from effecting an object.

I need to ask you if you've watched the entire Original Star Wars Trilogy.

Because if so, I will need to refer you to the Dagoba scene with Yoda.

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You mean the scene that happened after Luke used telekinesis? Because I really don't see how this is relevant when it came after Luke's first use of telekinesis.

I realize you have chosen to die on this hill, and I can respect that. But clarify for me, are you saying that Luke, who had three years after being shown beyond all doubt that he both has the Force and it is capable of some amazing shit being able to, with great effort, pull his lightsaber a few feet is the same as Rey doing mind tricks and lightsaber fighting and all the rest with no instruction or time to try and practice anything?

Here's another thing I realized: Luke was a pussy. I mean seriously, he lost fights all the time when he was put up against non-mooks. The one time he started winning a fight, that was also a losing move. He didn't even get to fight Boba Fett, not that he counts as a non-mook since he got taken out by a blind guy that didn't even know he was there.

Even when he won fights, it was because he had backup, not because he was just that damn good.

Death Star I? If Han hadn't come back, Luke would have been vaporized by his Dad.
Jabba's sail barge? Leia handled Jabba, blind Han kicked Fett's ass, and he was being backed up by the most powerful war droid from the Clone Wars: R2-D2*. Chewie and Lando were there too.

The one time Luke got to actually kick some ass on his own was during the Battle of Hoth when he crashed his speeder and took out an AT-AT with the ballsiest move seen on a battlefield since the Clone Wars. He then spent most of the rest of the movie getting abused by Muppet or getting a giant plate of his own ass handed to him by Darth Vader. Which is likely his punishment for looking cool for once.

Oh! And during Jedi he made a grown man cry by killing his beloved pet. So there's that.

*Full name: R2 FUCKING D2

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Rey was also told that she had the force. She had no reason to doubt that. And Luke had no reason to believe that telekinesis was possible. And his three years was just him stumbling around in the dark with no clue that such a thing could be possible. His training was barely existent. Would you expect someone who had been shown addition and than left alone for a couple years to suddenly be capable of quadratic equations?

The fact is, both of them have pulled off feats that they really shouldn't have been capable of with how little training they had.

Rey actually had some preexisting melee training. Is having staff training convert to lightsaber skill dumb? Yes. But at least it give a reason for her to have some skill. Luke, meenwhile, managed to best Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi despite having, as far as I can tell, zero lightsaber training. Ben only had him sensing stuff, so at most that would be a bit of blocking, and Yoda focused on physical conditioning and using the force, no actual swordsmanship. So how, exactly, did he manage to defeat the man who hunted down and killed Jedi after the rise of the empire?

And another thing. Rey didn't defeat Kylo in a fair fight. Kylo was already wounded from Chewie shooting him, and even than, she still needed Finn's help. And that's before we even get into the fact that Kylo is much less of a threat than Darth Vader.

As for Luke losing fights against non mooks, he barely had any fights with non mooks. He had two fights with Darth Vader and one with a Rancor. Of those three fights, he won two of them. One without his lightsaber. Or three out of four if you count the ATAT he destroyed as a non mook instead of an elite mook. So, by all the time, do you mean once?

Looking at the rest of your post, and I really have to question your logic on some of them.

Death Star 1: that wasn't a fight. That was a battle. And both sides had people involved there. So, if you want to remove Han, you would have to remove Vader as well, and Luke still wins.

Jabba's palace: why, exactly, would he go there alone? It makes no sense for him to do so. You're calling him a pussy because he didn't slaughter an entire palace single handedly. Also, his "backup" from R2D2 was getting his lightsaber. Nothing more than a method of smuggling his lightsaber in. The fighting he did was all him.

 

[Biigoh]

You mean the scene that happened after Luke used telekinesis? Because I really don't see how this is relevant when it came after Luke's first use of telekinesis.

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Dude... given that he didn't know what the force could do... like an entire generation went without any actual force users going about... all he has are legends.

He worked in the dark and went with his "instincts"... and up to that point, he didn't need telekinesis... not in a spaceship.

 

[rick1497]

Dude... given that he didn't know what the force could do... like an entire generation went without any actual force users going about... all he has are legends.

He worked in the dark and went with his "instincts"... and up to that point, he didn't need telekinesis... not in a spaceship.

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That depends on there being legends of Jedi using telekinesis. Considering that I don't think Luke had even heard of the Jedi before Ben told him, I'm doubting that there are many legends left. And he didn't have the time required to find any that still existed.

Also, if Luke can go with his instincts, than why can't Rey?

 

[MadGreenSon]

Also, if Luke can go with his instincts, than why can't Rey?

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If Luke can deal with actual adversity, setbacks, and personal weakness, why can't Rey? Why does she need to be pampered by plot contrivances? What about her is so weak that she needs that kind of treatment?

 

[rick1497]

If Luke can deal with actual adversity, setbacks, and personal weakness, why can't Rey? Why does she need to be pampered by plot contrivances? What about her is so weak that she needs that kind of treatment?

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1: subpar writing does not make a character a Mary Sue. Them being unnaturally perfect makes them a Mary Sue, and Rey has no such qualities that are not also possessed by Luke.

2: she did face adversity, setbacks, and personal weakness. For example, she couldn't even defeat a heavily wounded Kylo Ren alone. Or what about the fact that Luke refused to train her at first? Or that her plan to redeam Kylo completely failed. Or that time she was captured. Or her entire life as an orphan on a desert planet.

Heck, Rey hasn't even had that many victories. IIRC, her some total for victories was stealing a massively obsolete spaceship from what was practically a garbage dump, getting out of being tied up, running away from Kylo, and lifting some rocks.

 

[Terthna]

What was this about? Was there something in the news about it?

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Last week, a woman by the name of Grace Randolph did a video detailing information she says she received from a source at Pinewood Studios. Here's a quote:

There was a call, a secret conference call with all the top Star Wars brass in attendance, the kind of call where, apparently, security guards stand outside the different conference room doors and makes sure that no one eavesdrops. But here's the kicker. Top brass at not only Star Wars, but also Marvel and Pixar, were also in on the call, but listening only, likely at the request of Bob Iger, who wants their advice on how to fix this s--tshow. And yes, he does know it's a s--tshow. Evidence? The word that he wants Kathleen Kennedy out. He actually does, but, nobody will take her job. Several have been approached, but turned down, including J.J. Abrams, who turned it down flat and didn't even hesitate.

Why does nobody wanna run Star Wars? Well, it's probably pretty obvious for many of you, but let me spell it out for you. And that's in risk-averse Hollywood, nobody wants to run a house divided, which apparently is what Kathleen Kennedy has created. It's divided between her loyalists, which she brought in and wear those "Force is Female" t-shirts, and the loyalists to the brand itself that were there before Kathleen."

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If this is true, it would do a lot to explain the recent changes at Lucasfilm.

 

[MizMahem]

Last week, a woman by the name of Grace Randolph did a video detailing information she says she received from a source at Pinewood Studios.

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I don't buy it. Not that she might be on the way out, that's plausible. But I don't see it happening like this. I mean, I've never been in a Hollywood management meeting, but I've been in a few others. And the idea of the company CEO discussing the firing of another member of the senior management team just seems implausible and unprofessional. Just wouldn't happen, especially at these levels. If he wanted to fire her, he would discuss it with very few people to get some advice on it. Then just do it. It wouldn't be a subject of a large omnibus meeting like this. Because he doesn't need their support or approval to do it. He's the CEO, the only persons he answers to is the board (Bob Iger is also chairman of the board BTW).

Now, if the situation was somehow different. Say she had decided to resign or retire or move to something else and they were discussing replacement options, then this would make more sense. Perhaps that is what is happening and the details got lost in translation.

 

[точное попадание]

A bit late to the party, but bluntly put I'm going to vote with my wallet. Due to the Last Jedi I'm going to wait until Solo is in a discount bin somewhere before I will consider buying it. Might even settle for a pirated version.

Subversion is fine, but there still needs to be a story worth watching and frankly, there wasn't.

 

[Terthna]

I don't buy it. Not that she might be on the way out, that's plausible. But I don't see it happening like this. I mean, I've never been in a Hollywood management meeting, but I've been in a few others. And the idea of the company CEO discussing the firing of another member of the senior management team just seems implausible and unprofessional. Just wouldn't happen, especially at these levels. If he wanted to fire her, he would discuss it with very few people to get some advice on it. Then just do it. It wouldn't be a subject of a large omnibus meeting like this. Because he doesn't need their support or approval to do it. He's the CEO, the only persons he answers to is the board (Bob Iger is also chairman of the board BTW).

Now, if the situation was somehow different. Say she had decided to resign or retire or move to something else and they were discussing replacement options, then this would make more sense. Perhaps that is what is happening and the details got lost in translation.

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I think you're misunderstanding the point of the meeting; he wasn't looking for anyone's approval or support (outside of possibly their advice on how to fix the mess the Star Wars franchise had become) they were mostly there to be witnesses to Kathleen Kennedy's reprimanding, to make it as humiliating as possible for her. This sort of thing happens when upper management feels that their subordinates have "gone off the reservation", so to speak, in a way that costs the company a lot of money; which is what has demonstrably happened with Kathleen Kennedy's stewardship of the Star Wars franchise. Every Star Wars movie that she has overseen has made less profit than the last, to the point where Solo has now failed to break even at the box office. Besides; I just pointed out that they can't fire her, because nobody is willing to replace her. Their only option right now is to cripple her ego, and make her aware that her behavior up until this point will no longer be tolerated. This is an absolute disaster, and Bob Iger is in damage control mode now. If Episode 9 fails to make more money than Episode 8, then Star Wars will officially become a dying franchise, and Disney will have wasted billions acquiring it in the first place. Their only option at that point would be to shelve it, and try again in another ten to twenty years.

Or at least, that's my interpretation; if this actually happened. I could be wrong, but regardless; if it did, I seriously doubt that it had anything to do with what Kathleen Kennedy wants.

 

[aabbcc]

Their only option at that point would be to shelve it, and try again in another ten to twenty years.

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Or pull a reboot and just ditch the trilogy.