Trump Card (Worm AU) [Complete]

[Slayer Anderson]

Except they're still abusing the fact that they know her civilian identity. A fact they only know because they caused her trigger. They also had no evidence that the culprit was her beyond the fact that she had the capability to commit the crime.

Click to shrink...

Whoawhoawhoa! Hold up, are we actually trying to hold a government agency (even or especially a fictional one) to some kind of moral and ethical standard?

Piggot has received word from on-high that she needs to produce *results,* damn it! Armsmaster has *orders*! Are they going to let a little thing like the being horrible human beings get in the way of getting their job done!?

Of course not. It's a pity that Piggot hasn't reached the 'Frame Shadow Stalker for a Felony' stage of gives-no-fucks. Presumably, there's some clause, somewhere, that will let her throw Sophia straight into jail without bothering to pass go or collect 200 dollars if she commits a crime that is...'bad enough'? Maybe Sophia's been selling PRT secrets to the Yang-ban or something? I'm pretty sure a treason charge could get shit moving.

 

[Snake/Eater]

if Shadow Stalker's behavior becomes a liability to the wards,then they will have choice but to ship her to juvie before gets more people killed.

 

[Adyen]

Except they're still abusing the fact that they know her civilian identity. A fact they only know because they caused her trigger. They also had no evidence that the culprit was her beyond the fact that she had the capability to commit the crime.

This is like imposing martial law on a city and searching every home every time there's a stabbing because everyone had the capability.

Flight isn't even that uncommon a power in Worm. They aren't surrounding New Wave's homes and trying to catch them.

Even without the unwritten rules this degree of action would be harassment.

Click to shrink...

Why would it break the "Unwritten rule"? They don't have to say why they're there. Or later on, they could say that they were investigating a cape related crime, but they're the victims or something. They don't have to say WHY they're there unless they're forced to.

 

[inverted_helix]

Why would it break the "Unwritten rule"? They don't have to say why they're there. Or later on, they could say that they were investigating a cape related crime, but they're the victims or something. They don't have to say WHY they're there unless they're forced to.

Click to shrink...

They have no warrant and they did not pursue the suspect from the scene to the house. This is an illegal search on the basis that she has the capability to commit the crime. Despite the fact she has no prior criminal record.

They aren't searching New Wave's house. They're not busting down Legend's door.

What they're doing here is highly illegal. It's against the Constitution.

 

[ArisKatsaris]

People need remember that the "unwritten rules", being unwritten, are very very VERY prone to interpretation. And every side interprets them in the way it suits them.

*Unmasking* a (non-kill order, non-Birdcage bound) villain in public is a violation of the unwritten rules. But going after them in their homes, without unmasking them to the public -- well, unless the villain is known to have a different lair for his masked identity and a different one for his civilian identity, then I bet some would argue that it's the VILLAIN who wasn't properly maintaining the separation between civilian and masked identities.

Also they did NOT know the cape's civilian identity; they merely knew that Taylor was a parahuman who's powers matched the cape in question. This is a distinction which would some argue is meaningless, but in this case it means that Taylor can only complain of the violation of the unwritten rules if she admits to being the villain!

 

[Ack]

Okay; one more time.

Unwriiten rules do not mean that the PRT is bound to ignore super-powered criminal activity. It just means that they can't broadcast a set of powers, or a cape name, connected to a civilian name where the public can hear it. Also means they can't go after villains' families, if they happen to know who they are (which is why Taylor was so pissed when Tagg pulled Danny in).

They skated close to the line on this one, but given that they hadn't heard of any new Alexandria packages in town, especially ones working with a Tinker, they had a reasonable suspicion as to exactly how Taylor could have pulled off the heist, and so they decided to see if she was at hom, or catch her going there.

They weren't going to pull her in for questioning unless there was specific evidence; when Armsmaster saw a dark-clad figure matching the description of the robber, he figured the hunch had been right. But she evaded him, so he did his best to block or capture her, while gaining entry and seeing if she was indeed in the house (guns were because she had been armed at the robbery).

Up to this point, they were within their rights. Hot pursuit means that if you chase a suspect into private property, you can arrest them without a warrant, if you have reasonable belief that they are the person you've been chasing.

If Taylor had been not in her bedroom, or even in the house, they could have comfortably issued an arrest warrant, or at least a BOLO, based on the circumstantial evidence. If she had been caught wearing some part of the gear she used, that's an arrest right there.

But she got in and was apparently asleep when they burst in, enough to cause doubt in their minds. Hot pursuit was nullified. So they had to leave.

 

[Ack]

Trump Card

PHO Interlude

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♦Topic: New Villain Team in Town?
In: Boards ► Brockton Bay ► Cape Doings ► Villains

Lurker (Original Poster) (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Posted on January 8, 2011:

So yeah, my sources tell me that there's a new bunch of criminal capes in town. Three of them, an Alexandria package, a Tinker and maybe a teleporter. Knocked over the North Side Storage Facility last night. Gave a couple of Wards a bit of a beatdown. Got clean away, even after the PRT were on site.

(Showing Page 1 of 3)

Bagrat (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Whoa, this is the first I've heard of that. A new team? When did that happen? And a new Alexandria package?

Lurker (Original Poster) (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Well, like I said, last night. We know at least one of them was an Alexandria package, because they took on Aegis and beat the snot out of him.

GloryGirl (Verified Cape) (Cape Daughter) (New Wave)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Okay, just saying? Wasn't me.
But I did hear something about that. Who was the other Ward on site?

Lurker (Original Poster) (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
My sources say Vista. Don't worry, she's fine. Our mystery cape(s) just put a sleeper hold on her till she passed out.

ArcticWolf (Veteran Member) (Power Guru)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Okay, so that's the Alexandria package. But how do they know a Tinker and a Mover/teleporter were involved?

Lurker (Original Poster) (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Tinker because they used a Tinker tech device to get in, and apparently one of them ambushed Aegis with some sort of electrical discharge weapon, and teleporter because only one of them was seen leaving the scene - the A-package.

ArcticWolf (Veteran Member) (Power Guru)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Could the other one have been a Stranger with invisibility or something? While the Alexandria package was drawing everyone's attention, just walk out?

Lurker (Original Poster) (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Actually, that's a good point. Okay, so member three could be a Mover or a Stranger.

Bagrat (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Okay, so any other details? Costume appearance? Code names?

Lurker (Original Poster) (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Not really costumes, as far as I know. Dark clothing, head to toe. Balaclavas with goggles. One of them might have spoken with Aegis, but he's not talking about it.
​

End of Page. 1, 2, 3

(Showing Page 2 of 3)

XxVoid_CowboyxX
Replied on January 8, 2011:
So, basically, ninjas.

GloryGirl (Verified Cape) (Cape Daughter) (New Wave)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
<snerk> Ninjas. Really?

Hodor
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Hey, why not? We've already got a dragon in Brockton Bay.

ArcticWolf (Veteran Member) (Power Guru)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Hmm ... well, I can't recall offhand that combo in any other trios in the region. And a team that's that professional should be well established by now.
Looks like we've got a new team of talented amateurs, folks.

ICanHazKitty (Cape Groupie)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
So, come on, group name. We need one. Otherwise, we'll be talking about "those three capes with the Alexandria package, the Tinker and the Mover/Stranger".

XxVoid_CowboyxX
Replied on January 8, 2011:
I vote "Ninja Squad".

GloryGirl (Verified Cape) (Cape Daughter) (New Wave)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
>facepalm<

Hodor
Replied on January 8, 2011:
How about "Black Masks" until they give a name to the news?

Bagrat (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
You do realise that 'black mask' used to be a term for any criminal cape, right?

Hodor
Replied on January 8, 2011:
So? It fits.
​

End of Page. 1, 2, 3

(Showing Page 3 of 3)

Lurker (Original Poster) (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
And it's better than "Ninja Squad".

XxVoid_CowboyxX
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Hey, what's wrong with Ninja Squad?

ArcticWolf (Veteran Member) (Power Guru)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
We're not calling them Ninja Squad.

Bagrat (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
So, not to change the subject, but have they released information about how much the Black Masks got away with?

XxVoid_CowboyxX
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Ninja Squad.

Lurker (Original Poster) (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Not a specific figure, but the number is large. We're talking maybe seven digits here. The Black Masks apparently got into a secure vault, inside the premises, without tripping an alarm or even using the combination. Some really specialised components. So yeah, their Tinker is in hog heaven right now.

XxVoid_CowboyxX
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Ninja Squad!

Bagrat (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
So to figure out who the Black Masks really are, or who they're working for, all we have to do is sit back and wait for the next big Tinker tech device to be unleashed on Brockton Bay.
Joy.
I might go visit my aunt. In Fort Lauderdale.

Hodor
Replied on January 8, 2011:
I, for one, welcome our new Tinker overlords.

Lurker (Original Poster) (The Guy In The Know) (Veteran Member)
Replied on January 8, 2011:
Hahahahaha.
​

End of Page. 1, 2, 3

<><>​

Alexandria sat back from the computer, and put her face in her hands.


End of Interlude

Part Eleven

 

[inverted_helix]

Up to this point, they were within their rights. Hot pursuit means that if you chase a suspect into private property, you can arrest them without a warrant, if you have reasonable belief that they are the person you've been chasing.

Click to shrink...

They did not see her entering the house. Hot pursuit did not give them the right to enter that house. It could have given them right to enter the house where Armsmaster last saw that dark suited figure, but not the Hebert house.

They also had no evidence to cause them to think that it was Taylor. Only their knowledge that she could have been capable of committing the crime. Any of New Wave would have been capable but they weren't harassed.

This is like sending patrols to check the house of a locksmith in town any time a specific lock is picked to burglarize a house despite that locksmith having no criminal record. Even worse still this a locksmith that one of your officers assaulted in the past.

But it's worse because Taylor can theoretically have any power so are they just going to swing by to check her house any time any parahuman crime is committed?

This doesn't even need to be related to a cape to be illegal. Taylor has no criminal record at this point. This is a ridiculously clear cut case of police harassment. This is the sort of thing legendary court settlements are made of.

 

[Ack]

They had circumstantial evidence to believe that it might be Taylor, Taylor has motive to be pissed off enough at the PRT to commit crimes, and Armsmaster saw someone he suspected to be Taylor, heading for her house.

If they had then searched for evidence once they were in there, that would have been thrown out. But as soon as it was made clear that she was not obviously the person that they were pursuing, and there was no evidence in plain view to say that she was, they had to leave.

As she pointed out, she can't really hit the PRT for it, because her status as a cape is hanging in the breeze. However, nor can the PRT press harder, because 'harassment' is what would come up if they did.

 

[Sheaman3773]

Unwriiten rules do not mean that the PRT is bound to ignore super-powered criminal activity. It just means that they can't broadcast a set of powers, or a cape name, connected to a civilian name where the public can hear it. Also means they can't go after villains' families, if they happen to know who they are (which is why Taylor was so pissed when Tagg pulled Danny in).

Click to shrink...

I don't know if you're speaking to a subset of people including me or not, but my understanding is that so long as your identity is not out, like Bitch's was, part of the unwritten rules included not acting on any knowledge you have on anyone's ID. You shouldn't know their IDs, but if you do, you don't act on the knowledge, period.

By going to her house after this crime, they're acting on their knowledge of her powers, her identity. Which is against the rules as I know them, though not as you are explaining them.

Again, not talking about anything after AM saw her, just him heading there in the first place.

They did not see her entering the house. Hot pursuit did not give them the right to enter that house. It could have given them right to enter the house where Armsmaster last saw that dark suited figure, but not the Hebert house.

They also had no evidence to cause them to think that it was Taylor. Only their knowledge that she could have been capable of committing the crime. Any of New Wave would have been capable but they weren't harassed.

Click to shrink...

That seems to make sense, but I'm not an expert /shrug

We really need a lawyer openly on these boards



Also, nice PHO interlude

 

[Ack]

I don't know if you're speaking to a subset of people including me or not, but my understanding is that so long as your identity is not out, like Bitch's was, part of the unwritten rules included not acting on any knowledge you have on anyone's ID. You shouldn't know their IDs, but if you do, you don't act on the knowledge, period.

By going to her house after this crime, they're acting on their knowledge of her powers, her identity. Which is against the rules as I know them, though not as you are explaining them.

Again, not talking about anything after AM saw her, just him heading there in the first place.

That seems to make sense, but I'm not an expert /shrug

We really need a lawyer openly on these boards



Also, nice PHO interlude

Click to shrink...

Given that she doesn't have a cape identity at this point, there's room to argue that she can't really hide behind the unwritten rules.

If she did have a criminal cape identity, and she carried out the theft in the same manner, they would do their best to pin it on the cape identity. But as she doesn't have one, are they just supposed to ignore it? Because that leaves a huge loophole for supervillains to exploit.

 

[evildice]

If she did have a criminal cape identity, and she carried out the theft in the same manner, they would do their best to pin it on the cape identity. But as she doesn't have one, are they just supposed to ignore it? Because that leaves a huge loophole for supervillains to exploit.

Click to shrink...

I'm actually kind of surprised nobody in canon thought to do basically that by simply changing cape identities whenever the heat got too high.

 

[Chojomeka]

Heh poor Greg nobody likes your naming scheme

 

[Ack]

I'm actually kind of surprised nobody in canon thought to do basically that by simply changing cape identities whenever the heat got too high.

Click to shrink...

What, like Defiant?

 

[evildice]

What, like Defiant?

Click to shrink...

Heh. But no, not like Defiant, nor Assault, nor Weaver.

I mean a change in ID to fool the PRT / Protectorate, not a change in ID purely for PR which fools nobody in power.

 

[Navrin]

Generally not possible for capes without crippling their superpower's effectiveness.

 

[Ack]

Generally not possible for capes without crippling their superpower's effectiveness.

Click to shrink...

Basically, yeah. "Wow, Gadgetmaster is using the exact same devices as Machine Man did last week. And no-one's seen Machine Man since he blew up that school bus and the PRT put a kill order on his head!"

 

[inverted_helix]

I'm actually kind of surprised nobody in canon thought to do basically that by simply changing cape identities whenever the heat got too high.

Click to shrink...

You mean Regent.

Generally not possible for capes without crippling their superpower's effectiveness.

Click to shrink...

Who really did cripple his power's effectiveness.

They had circumstantial evidence to believe that it might be Taylor, Taylor has motive to be pissed off enough at the PRT to commit crimes, and Armsmaster saw someone he suspected to be Taylor, heading for her house.

Click to shrink...

They had no evidence that it might be Taylor. Even circumstantial evidence would have been handy to have but they didn't have that.

It could have been any number of people with Alexandria packages. Or an even larger number of people that could fly considering they really can't know it was someone with a brute rating on top of it since it didn't come down to a fight with Aegis, he never got a serious blow on her to say that she had a brute rating at all.

They went after her solely because she has the power set to do it, but there was no evidence at all. Like I said, it's going to harass a locksmith because a lock had been picked. Despite the fact that many other people know how to pick locks.

Being pissed off at the police is not going to count as motive to commit general crimes in pretty much any court of law. That would be motive for a crime against the police. Not for any crime they care to try to pin on her.

If they had then searched for evidence once they were in there, that would have been thrown out. But as soon as it was made clear that she was not obviously the person that they were pursuing, and there was no evidence in plain view to say that she was, they had to leave.

Click to shrink...

For hot pursuit to apply in the United States he'd have needed to see the suspect entering that specific house. Seeing her in the area is not enough.

 

[Grell23]

Eh to me it's a case of "And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for your pesky expert use of powers common sense and more Chutzpah then Mel Brooks on a bender."

*If* the PRT had managed to chase Taylor into her home (hot pursuit) and catch her in the gear she was seen in (or seen the gear for that matter) then Taylor is screwed. Into whatever situation we want you in or X horrible thing happens. (Wards or jail for example.)

But! Taylor combined brilliant parkour, her goggles ability to spot capes & a generous helping of luck to sneak into her own room. There she kept her head, stripped and hid all evidence of being out and about and proceeded to act and social engineer like a trooper.

Best part of the whole thing? Even if they hadn't done this (i.e. not seen her in the 1st place or Piggot never gave the order) she still loathes the PRT so all this did was make Piggot seem like a flipping moron who risked huge amounts of bad PR for zip results.

Now I'm just going to sit back and imagine what 7 figures of tinker goodies can make that will either slide under the PRTs radar or be so mind bogglingly useful that noone questions how and where they got the materials.


(Oh and wait to see the inevitable backstabbing and shuffling at the local PRT.)

 

[Ack]

You mean Regent.
Who really did cripple his power's effectiveness.
They had no evidence that it might be Taylor. Even circumstantial evidence would have been handy to have but they didn't have that.

It could have been any number of people with Alexandria packages. Or an even larger number of people that could fly considering they really can't know it was someone with a brute rating on top of it since it didn't come down to a fight with Aegis, he never got a serious blow on her to say that she had a brute rating at all.

They went after her solely because she has the power set to do it, but there was no evidence at all. Like I said, it's going to harass a locksmith because a lock had been picked. Despite the fact that many other people know how to pick locks.

Being pissed off at the police is not going to count as motive to commit general crimes in pretty much any court of law. That would be motive for a crime against the police. Not for any crime they care to try to pin on her.

For hot pursuit to apply in the United States he'd have needed to see the suspect entering that specific house. Seeing her in the area is not enough.

Click to shrink...

For whatever reason, Taylor was a suspect. (The reason he was being sent to her house in the first place.)
He saw a suspicious figure, which could have been Taylor, near her house, heading toward it.
They were already going to inquire of Danny if Taylor was home, after putting a perimeter around it.
After Armsmaster spotted her then lost sight of her again, they decided to step it up, and see if a) she wasn't home, or b) she was there, with evidence.
No, they didn't see her enter the house, but said house was connected to her, and she was already under suspicion, and the suspicious figure had been seen nearby, moving in this direction.
So they threw the dice, and made the gamble.
Okay, so they lost, but if she had been still getting that gear off, or if anything had been in the open ... she would have been screwed. They would have had a righteous bust.
As it is, egg is now on faces, but that's what happens when you gamble and lose.

 

[evildice]

You mean Regent.
Who really did cripple his power's effectiveness.

Click to shrink...

His name change fooled nobody in power, so not really. But I guess he's the closest in canon.

As it is, egg is now on faces, but that's what happens when you gamble and lose.

Click to shrink...

It strikes me that Taylor is in exactly the right headspace to hear Lisa's "cops & robbers" speech.

Or to give someone else that speech.

 

[esotericist]

It strikes me that Taylor is in exactly the right headspace to hear Lisa's "cops & robbers" speech.

Click to shrink...

I'm all of the looking forward to Taylor meeting Lisa, for the record.

 

[Sheaman3773]

Given that she doesn't have a cape identity at this point, there's room to argue that she can't really hide behind the unwritten rules.

If she did have a criminal cape identity, and she carried out the theft in the same manner, they would do their best to pin it on the cape identity. But as she doesn't have one, are they just supposed to ignore it? Because that leaves a huge loophole for supervillains to exploit.

Click to shrink...

They build profiles for capes. Even if they avoided a cape name and signature costume, the use of the power would have to be the same, and that would be enough to create a profile. As we saw in canon, even if you don't have a name, they're not hesitant to give one to you.

In short, it only seems like it would be a loophole if they knew who you were and you were just starting your criminal career.

An interesting point nevertheless.

 

[Adyen]

I'm all of the looking forward to Taylor meeting Lisa, for the record.

Click to shrink...

It doesn't feel like it would happen unless the Bombings happens again (which I actually doubt). U+L were never really shown on screen when Taylor was with the Undersiders, so it makes more sense if they were working in different spheres of influence.

 

[inverted_helix]

For whatever reason, Taylor was a suspect. (The reason he was being sent to her house in the first place.)

Click to shrink...

There was no reason for her to be the suspect. No evidence justifying it beyond any other cape that could have done it.

Okay, so they lost, but if she had been still getting that gear off, or if anything had been in the open ... she would have been screwed. They would have had a righteous bust.

Click to shrink...

No, Hot Pursuit doesn't allow the search if you did not see them enter the house. It would have been illegal search and any evidence derived would be tainted and unusable in the court of law. Even if they'd caught her in the whole outfit with the stolen goods the evidence would be stricken from the records because it was unlawfully collected.

This is pretty much the most obvious case of police harassment a lawyer can ask for. This is the kind of case that legends are made of. She could make enough money off the lawsuit to just move to another state and change her name and retire, at fifteen.

 

[Adyen]

This is pretty much the most obvious case of police harassment a lawyer can ask for. This is the kind of case that legends are made of. She could make enough money off the lawsuit to just move to another state and change her name and retire, at fifteen.

Click to shrink...

Eh. Well, you probably know the laws better than I do, though maybe Ack can ping legalities off you if you're so sure of law-related things.

But like I suggested elsewhere, the PRT Quest makes me think that the PRT isn't a government agency and thus isn't bound by the same laws due to changes brought upon by the existence of para-humans. We already know they have more power with things like Master/Stranger protocols, so so it's entirely possible that they PRT was given more power when dealing with capes (as that is their only jurisdiction).

 

[Ack]

I've added a little to Part 10, and also to the end of the interlude.

I'm trying to get to the point of "We think she might have gotten into the house, so we're going in after her" but not so far as "we know for a fact it was her, so we can arrest her".

 

[Alterego9]

♦Topic: New Villain Team in Town?
In: Boards ► Cape Doings ► Villains

Click to shrink...

You might want to add a "Brockton Bay" somewhere into that thread designation.

 

[doomlord9]

It doesn't feel like it would happen unless the Bombings happens again (which I actually doubt). U+L were never really shown on screen when Taylor was with the Undersiders, so it makes more sense if they were working in different spheres of influence.

Click to shrink...

My thought on this way back when was for them to randomly meet in their civvies. Taylor ID's her via her power, Lisa knows that she knows, Taylor knows that she knows that she knows, this continues until either Taylor forces her power away from Lisa to break the feedback loop or they accept it and make a plan that would make Alexander the Great and Sun Tzu weep from the beauty and complexity it contains. Of course to everyone else it appear that they stared at each other for a couple minutes while having minor muscle spasms before shaking hands and going back to doing whatever they were doing.

Oh....fuck, I just had a bad thought. The PRT knows alot about Taylor and her power, well more than enough for all of Coil's moles to make him be interested in either killing her so she can't be a threat by discovering exactly how his power works or to possibly have her kidnapped and given the Dinah treatment right next to her so he can double-down on what he can do.

 

[Ack]

You might want to add a "Brockton Bay" somewhere into that thread designation.

Click to shrink...

Better?