With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

NightmareWarden · 2026-08-12T07:25:54+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Fagging

25th September 2013
10:36 GMT +3

The last Grayven arc ended in August of 2013 in-universe. He released the Spectre from bondage, made contact with the Knights of Passage, and his primary Awakened bodyguards had a bit of a crisis of faith? It is hard to summarize how they were shaken up by the illusion-filled world's trials. In the story-only thread, that arc stretched from Feb 2026 to Mar 2026. Last year there were snippets of Wilson with the changelings, some other Equestria things (multiple Discords and three more little alicorns), and a flashforward to 2017 Grayven in a reimagined DCEU/Snyderverse setting back in March 2015.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-08-12T07:39:41+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Fagging

25th September 2013
10:36 GMT +3

Oh, that title is going to get comments, especially by people who don't recognise the term or click the link. I barely remembered the term from old English children's novels. And we get to start out with a Renegade scene. This will be a treat.

Hm.

I look around as I amble through the presidential palace. More g-elves than I'm used to seeing around my own home, but as Father's visit demonstrated, there's not much they could do against things that could actually get inside. But here, things are a little different.

Ah! An actual human, g-gnome ensconced on his shoulder. A government worker, then. He briefly looks at me, blinks, and then gets on with whatever he was supposed to be doing. Though the g-gnome turns its head around to watch me until I'm out of sight.

Impressive to see the integration of Genomorphs into the local government structure. I wonder if anyone has feelings on that matter?

Mostly positive, I would expect...

As a British person, I find something very satisfying about fixing Africa's shit. From abolishing slavery and building modern infrastructure two hundred years ago, to abolishing rampant corruption and… Well, slavery, today. A fully Light-endorsed project that the League wouldn't dare have anything to do with, but which nonetheless improves the lives of millions of people. And at the same time advances the interests of the Light. A lot of the people who are benefiting from the improved economic opportunities and educational systems we've been able to implement will find work in the E.D.F. or in humanity's first off-world colonies, paid for by actually running the place competently.

At least this Light is operating as a benevolent dictatorship, in the truest sense of the term. No lining their own pockets off corruption, no blatant mass-murders to satisfy a President-for-Life's paranoia murder-boner... Just a better life for everyone, provided by a mailed fist offering a hand up.

And now, I'll add in my best guesses at Mother Box's comments. A little fan-ficcy, but hey...

As a de facto dictatorship, with loyalty and moral probity enforced by magic and telepathy and backed by overwhelming military force. What's the line..?

Ping.

"I'm surprised you don't have them all memorised, Grayven." I suppose the enforcement helps to weed out the corrupt, the insane and the perverse, raising the quality of the government considerably.

If I could remember it then I wouldn't be asking, would I? Something like, 'The only people who objected were those with strong beliefs concerning personal liberty, but that is never the majority of people'. I think it was on the wall of the Religious Education classroom in Willingdon.

Ping.

"And what makes you so different to those leaders that person was writing about, Grayven?" Ultimately, people are surprisingly willing to sacrifice freedom in return for comfort. And being able to live without the threat of civil war is definitely comfortable.

Oh, that's easy. The difference is that I'm right.

Ping.

"A rare occasion. I should mark the date." Sadly, thinking you're right and actually being right can involve a considerable gap between those positions.

"Hah!"

A couple of other people turn to look at me, and then return to what they were doing.

Yeah, when the giant grey man laughs out loud for no reason, best you not attract his attention.

I mean, I was, but it's true. Freedom around here means another civil war over which thief gets to rule them. Another constitution enabling another dictator. Another burning down of what little we managed to build.

Ping.

"To borrow a phrase, 'What do you mean 'we', kemosabe?'" Ah, the Renegade's tendency to consider his holdings as part of himself, and thus their achievements are his...

Fine, they managed to build. I'm empathising. I thought that's what you wanted?

Ping.

"It's a start. I still think they might have preferred some say in the matter. The freedom of choice..."

Well… Choose, because as far as I can see this is the only way they're going to get it. If what they have was working, we wouldn't be required.

Ping.

"I suppose you're correct about that part. But was this much interference required?"

Alright, not required, but… Ah, it's not the right quote, but… 'The only freedom left to my people is the freedom to starve. The freedom to die, the freedom to live in a world of chaos. Should I allow that freedom? I think not. I think not.'

…ping.

"Somehow, i don't think that quote means quite what you are using it to say..." I suppose forcing people to live when they might prefer death is a little tyrannical. Fitting, given the source of the quote.

Certainly, but tell me that I'm wrong. We tried it, the result was starvation, rolling blackouts -sorry, 'load shedding'- and leaders whose wives shopped in foreign countries with foreign currency while the ruled got to enjoy hyperinflation.

Ping.

"You can't blame yourself for the actions of people like that." I assume this is before he stepped in with external oversight and anti-corruption measures.

But there are always people like that. A functioning society needs a way to keep them away from the levers of power, and if they can't do that, then to ensure that no such levers exist in the first place. And the next part of the quote is 'Do I reserve for myself the freedom I deny to others? I do not. I sit here within my cage and I am but a servant. I, who am master of all that I see.'

After all, the classic line of 'Those who seek power the most are often the least suited to wield it' fits quite well here too.

Ping.

"A pithy line. But do you really believe in it's correctness?"

I… Used to, but then I thought about it and it became obvious that while he said it was about anarchy against fascism, the fascists were depicted as purely self-interested rather than ideologically motivated, he didn't show the nuclear war or the strain it put on society which led to them coming to power in the first place, and at the end where what's left of civilisation collapses as the result of his actions the story ends before people start starving. It was dishonest.

The drawback of keeping the story so tightly focused on the 'heroes and villains' of the tale, and not on the wider setting.

Ping.

"Perhaps we can hope that human nature may change for the better, given a good example..." If only...

Maybe it can. Maybe it can, once better habits are injected into the national psyche. I doubt it, but it's possible. Besides, this is what I'm for, isn't it?

Ping.

"Is that all this is about? Living up to your Godname? Is that why..?" To be fair to both of them, we readers don't have a full understanding of how a Godname impacts upon the bearer of it. For instance, how much it aligns with the nature of their character or how it forces that character into a fitting shape.

No, it's not why I'm doing it, but it's why I believe that this is Source-approved, at least to a degree.

Ping.

"...I can't really contest that point, I suppose. But at least I can argue about it." He feels at ease because this aligns with his stated Godname of Conquest, yes. But the specific aspect of it... That's a little more malleable, I suppose.

And that's why I talk to you.

Ping.

"I'm the only person who can understand, really." I doubt Scot Free would be able to follow the concepts discussed, especially since they're almost antithetical to his aspect of Freedom. And Barda would probably find it sensible...

Exactly.

Two guards and a secretary stare at me as I enter the front office. The g-elves give me a quick look and then go inert.

Of course. They can tell he's here for a purpose, and standing in his way would be foolish.

"Good morning everyone. I'm here to see the president." I stroll through the outer office, my pace not changing in the slightest. "I'll see myself in."

"She… Is expecting you."

Good to see them being reasonable. And much liek the Juggernaut, stopping a New God in motion is no easy task...

I turn my head slightly, intending to congratulate the secretary on his rapid recovery… But then I notice that the g-gnome's eyes are glowing. Ah well. He'll learn. Or he'll find a new job.

I tap the door twice with my right forefinger, and then open the door.

The g-nome taking direct control, I see. Useful for greasing the wheels.

Newly anointed President of Madagascar Jade Nguyen regards me levelly. "Grayven."

"Madam President! Congratulation on your victory."

Ah, they've come so far from their early days. No hard feelings about her trying to kill him, of course.

"I was the only candidate who wasn't disqualified."

"Even better! People voted for you, and you're provably not corrupt!"

~~Some of that could have been cultural inertia. 'She's the only candidate? Nothing new, then.~~'

Right, multiple candidates. Still it does make it easier. 'Huh, she's not a crook, as far as anyone knows? Sound good to me'

"I'm an assassin."

"You do your own dirty work! You're practically proletarian."

She sighs. "Is this your fault?"

So he didn't ask her to run? Or did he drop a casual hint and she picked up on the subtext...

I sit down on the floor in front of her desk, my face still level with hers. "Not directly. I mean, you've got my confidence. You've proven yourself to be an effective political agent, and I'm happy to fast track whatever trade arrangements you want. But I never specifically said 'Make Jade president' or anything like that."

They joy of a dictatorship. No arguing with a parliamentary body, no committees to brief and cajole... Just 'I want this done' and people get on it.

"Okay."

"I was laughing quite a bit when I found out, though. Have you told Paula yet?"

Wonder if it's giving Artemis any amusement, too. She's too mature now for it to trigger any inferiority complexes, since she basically rules the Sheeda future alongside the Renegade...

"Yes." She looks out of the window, across her new domain. "I think she thought I was assassinating people for you."

"She was please that you weren't though, right?"

And really, her ordering people's deaths wouldn't be unusual for the average president around there. The reasons would be, though.

"She was delighted." Her brow is decorated with a shallow furrow. "I'm not sure that she's.. ever been quite that happy about something I'm doing."

"I assume that she's coming to the inauguration?"

At least Jade can personally manage the security, given she'd be familiar with every possible assassination route a dissident could imagine.

"If I have to have one."

"You should. You have to pay all the people who'd be required anyway, and given that you got the job because everyone else was arrested for corruption, it would probably be a good idea if people could hear you speak."

If nothing else, she might get a funny reaction of 'Well, at least she's easier on the eyes than the average bastard in office.'

"I can't tell them what my manifesto is if I don't have-." She nods. "That's why you're here."

I take folders containing every bit of economic and social data on the island I could gather out of subspace and bless my vassal in my name.

"Of course that's why I'm here. Let's get to work.

Putting his powers to good use to navigate the complexity of an unfamiliar nation, I see.

I see the Renegade hasn't been lazing around since last we saw him. Madagascar, eh? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. As for the episode title... I wouldn't be surprised if the episode's main plot dealt with the rookie heroes learning the ropes from their mentors, often by doing the less-dangerous but less-glamorous tasks said mentors manage.

Frozen20XX · 2026-08-12T08:12:27+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
Impressive to see the integration of Genomorphs into the local government structure. I wonder if anyone has feelings on that matter?

Dubbliex probably approves.

Speaking of g-gnomes, wonder if that whole incident with Kraig happened in either Paragon or Renegade timelines.

At least this Light is operating as a benevolent dictatorship, in the truest sense of the term. No lining their own pockets off corruption, no blatant mass-murders to satisfy a President-for-Life's paranoia murder-boner... Just a better life for everyone, provided by a mailed fist offering a hand up.

Savage, Ra's and Brain could have gotten this had they been less evil. Now they spend their time in a ring unless Grayven needs them for anything.

Mr Zoat · 2026-08-12T08:31:38+0100

Darko said:
"pleased"

Ngamer11 said:
I assume only some of these words should be italicized rather than most of them?

Darko said:
The link for this chapter lacks the (supplementary, Renegade option).

Thank you, corrected.

EgyptianDio · 2026-08-12T08:40:38+0100

Huh... nice to see Grayven and Jade can still have semi-civilized conversations after everything.

Mr Zoat · 2026-08-12T08:44:00+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
Impressive to see the integration of Genomorphs into the local government structure. I wonder if anyone has feelings on that matter?

Which part of your previous sentence did you not understand?

"And what makes you so different to those leaders Mister Mill was writing about, Grayven?" The quote is by John Stuart Mill, of 'On liberty' fame.

I can't find it on the link provided.

Some of that could have been cultural inertia. 'She's the only candidate? Nothing new, then.'

No, they usually have multiple candidates. That's why each election results in a civil war. No one has a civil war with themselves.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-08-12T09:12:50+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Which part of your previous sentence did you not understand?

I mean, they can work with them but still have opinions, good or bad.

I can't find it on the link provided.

Huh. Well, that's what Google provided when I searched for the quote. I'll remove any specific source, then.

No, they usually have multiple candidates. That's why each election results in a civil war. No one has a civil war with themselves.

To be fair, I was basing that on more typical sorts of dictatorships where elections are mostly for show...

hkim · 2026-08-12T09:27:27+0100

DAT_NOOB said:
I wonder what motivated her to run in the first place.

She probably got a look at Grayven's plans and had a sensible reaction. Sadly, she didn't run fast enough.

BR549 · 2026-08-12T10:11:06+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
To be fair, I was basing that on more typical sorts of dictatorships where elections are mostly for show...

Being mindful of Rule 8, although this goes back well, well, WELL before that's cutoff...

It's not the 'one man, one vote, one time' sort of dictatorship. It's the 'An election is held. Each tribe nominates their own candidate and votes for their own candidate, and the winner immediately starts trying to wipe out all the other tribes while declaring himself President for Life. When somebody finally steps in and puts their foot down, repeat the process from the start' sort of dictatorship.

Hence, Grayven's musing that the Light arranging to install their own form of more benevolent dictatorship (with Jade dragged kicking and screaming into the big chair) is, while still a dictatorship, a marked improvement.

I just hope Jade's crash course of required reading includes the complete works of Lord Havelock Vetinari...

(...speaking of, I forget if we ever established whether or not a Paul was tossed onto the Disc?)

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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