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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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I'm a little disappointed that Zoat didn't include an obscure power of Grundy's- Energy Absorption.

Grundy absorbed Dr Fate's magic and the energy out of Alan's ring, it made him strong enough to bitch slap Superman and take on entire teams on his own.

So imagine how much fun coming here when any of the Grundymen could nom on Paul's energy to become even more superhumanly strong and durable....
 
Stsword said:
I'm a little disappointed that Zoat didn't include an obscure power of Grundy's- Energy Absorption.

Grundy absorbed Dr Fate's magic and the energy out of Alan's ring, it made him strong enough to bitch slap Superman and take on entire teams on his own.

So imagine how much fun coming here when any of the Grundymen could nom on Paul's energy to become even more superhumanly strong and durable....
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He may add that in the following chapters.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
"And he hasn't brought the technology to market because...?" Then again, the future of Batman Beyond does have stuff like flying cars, so presumably he eventually did. Or Luthor made it there first.
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If I'd had to guess? Cost and safety and probably some legal issues about incorporating flying cars into the infrastructure and legal system.

Just because the League(that's bankrolled by Bruce and presumably other billionaire heroes) can afford to make and use artificial gravity tech doesn't mean the "average joe" can. Odds are the manufacturing technology is currently too complicated(boosting cost), and the technology not robust enough(meaning it needs a trained, specialist technician and engineer to keep it in working order, of which there would not be many because its a very new technology) to sell commercially(much less widely). There's also legal issues like how do you incorporate flying cars into both the infrastructure and "rules of the road".

All these things take time to fix, not that much time all things considered, just 10 to 20 years to work things out(which is what happens in the DCAU timeline) but they are still issues that need to be taken into account. In the DCAU timeline, Bruce(in his mid-50s) retires in 2019(around ten years after the events of JL and JLU). By this point he already had the "Beyond" Bat-suit and presumably also the "Beyond" batmobile, so while it wasn't shown, I wouldn't be surprised if governments, airline companies and those who can afford their own aircraft were starting to field anti-gravity hovercraft by then, with the next 20 years(Batman Beyond takes place in 2039) seeing the technology be refined, the costs going down, the maintenance issue simplified to the point you don't need a degree just to do basic maintenance, and everything else needed so that a flying car becomes not just affordable but practical for a "normal person" to own and operate.
 
GhostKing 666 said:
If I'd had to guess? Cost and safety and probably some legal issues about incorporating flying cars into the infrastructure and legal system.
Just because the League(that's bankrolled by Bruce and presumably other billionaire heroes) can afford to make and use artificial gravity tech doesn't mean the "average joe" can. Odds are the manufacturing technology is currently too complicated(boosting cost), and the technology not robust enough(meaning it needs a trained, specialist technician and engineer to keep it in working order, of which there would not be many because its a very new technology) to sell commercially(much less widely). There's also legal issues like how do you incorporate flying cars into both the infrastructure and "rules of the road".
All these things take time to fix, not that much time all things considered, just 10 to 20 years to work things out(which is what happens in the DCAU timeline) but they are still issues that need to be taken into account. In the DCAU timeline, Bruce(in his mid-50s) retires in 2019(around ten years after the events of JL and JLU). By this point he already had the "Beyond" Bat-suit and presumably also the "Beyond" batmobile, so while it wasn't shown, I wouldn't be surprised if governments, airline companies and those who can afford their own aircraft were starting to field anti-gravity hovercraft by then, with the next 20 years(Batman Beyond takes place in 2039) seeing the technology be refined, the costs going down, the maintenance issue simplified to the point you don't need a degree just to do basic maintenance, and everything else needed so that a flying car becomes not just affordable but practical for a "normal person" to own and operate.
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Sort of like how we mostly have the tech for Self driving car now, but it'll take years before it'll be practical to mass produce them or how Cell phones used to expensive and rare.
But that doesn't mean Batman or other League members have shared any of their advanced tech with anyone yet. Simply that Batman and others probably will share some of it eventually.
 
Mr Zoat said:
3rd May
14:16 GMT -5

"No, I'm not suggesting that you're wrong; I'm asking for clarification. What do they say about other Sheeda? I'm working off the stories of a mad scientists who didn't actually see that much and the history of the handful of people who survived the last Harrowing."
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This should probably either be 'of a mad scientist' or 'of mad scientists'.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Thank you, corrected.

My provisional answer is that they both returned to their home parallel.
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Sorry, but does this mean that they eventually went back to - 14, which is their home universe, or that they're still on Eart 12, which is the home of the League?
 
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Vaermina said:
That's certainly one of many million dollar questions in concerns to Zoat's writing.
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Zoat has already picked some elements from the n52 that he liked or thought would be good for his story.

Some of the characters in this fic first showed up in the n52, like some of the Lanterns he recruited, as well as one New God and one recipient of that scientist scholarship in the renegade side.

That thing with Red Lanterns being thrown in blood to master their rage was also something that showed up in the n52 if I remember correctly.

Zoat just prefers to use elements from pre n52 because he likes them more.

It's really not that difficult to grasp, but I guess you'd have some difficulties actually trying to think.
 
Darko said:
Sorry, but does this mean that they eventually went back to - 14, which is their home universe, or that they're still on Earth 12, which is the home of the League?
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Yes, they went back.
Darko said:
Zoat has already picked some elements from the n52 that he liked or thought would be good for his story.

Some of the characters in this fic first showed up in the n52, like some of the Lanterns he recruited, as well as one New God and one recipient of that scientist scholarship in the renegade side.

That thing with Red Lanterns being thrown in blood to master their rage was also something that showed up in the n52 if I remember correctly.
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Technically true, but the Lantern books essentially ignored the fact that Nu52 was happening for quite a while. The Red Lantern books could have been pre-Nu52 until Kara turned up and people didn't know who she was.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Yes, they went back.

Technically true, but the Lantern books essentially ignored the fact that Nu52 was happening for quite a while. The Red Lantern books could have been pre-Nu52 until Kara turned up and people didn't know who she was.
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Did they go back to Earth - 14 to continue fighting the Syndicate, and because they found it difficult to fit into Earth 12, seeing as they were pretty much former criminals with some serious mental, emotional and physical scars that couldn't fit in on Earth 12?

While the Lantern things may be weird in the n52, you did stall addd the occasional element from the n52 here and there.
 
transhumansage said:
Aw dammit i wanted to find out what happened with the lawsuit
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Probably nothing.

Because contrary to what Peter thinks, he doesn't actually have the ability to sue over Batman taking the ring. That sort of thing requires a specific level of ownership proof that would be impossible for him to have gotten due to the alien nature of the ring.
 
Vaermina said:
Probably nothing.

Because contrary to what Peter thinks, he doesn't actually have the ability to sue over Batman taking the ring. That sort of thing requires a specific level of ownership proof that would be impossible for him to have gotten due to the alien nature of the ring.
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Seeing as Cadmus is most likely a thing Peter may actually have some help in getting the League to back down, because Cadmus wants to curtail the power the League has, and them no longer being able to do whatever they like because they stole something from a guy that hasn't done anything wrong is a good way for them to do it.

Peter also doesn't want to sue, according to Zoat, but just wanted to use that as the nuclear option in case the League decides to not give it back, or tries something similar in the future.

Peter may not be able to prove the ring is legally his, but if the League actually does something similar to some other guy then they may actually have proof and be able to successfully sue the League.

First lesson for the League:

Don't go stealing other people's property without a damn good reason.

Oh and he can sue them for breaking into his home without a warrant or provable cause.
 
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Vaermina said:
Probably nothing.

Because contrary to what Peter thinks, he doesn't actually have the ability to sue over Batman taking the ring. That sort of thing requires a specific level of ownership proof that would be impossible for him to have gotten due to the alien nature of the ring.
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yeah but thats not the issue. either the jlu giveback what they stole from him or batman's identity gets exposed. and as he said in the dark knight rises, the mask protects more people than just bruce wayne.
 
It may be provable. The ring isn't an inanimate object. In a court sense it may be possible to treat the ring itself as a witness, so to speak.

Of course, this runs into the issue that Wynne's ring considers its' true owner to be its' creator.
 
Darko said:
Did they go back to Earth - 14 to continue fighting the Syndicate, and because they found it difficult to fit into Earth 12, seeing as they were pretty much former criminals with some serious mental, emotional and physical scars that couldn't fit in on Earth 12?
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They went back because it's their home.
Darko said:
Peter may not be able to prove the ring is legally his, but if the League actually does something si ilar to some other guy then they may actually have 0roof and be able to successfully sue the League.
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He can prove that he's had it since he completed his citizenship application in Britain 12, because he included it in the paperwork.
 
I would be deeply unsurprised to learn there are entire civilizations farther out, both from the initial diaspora and from those spreading out to explore and claim new land. Particularly since losing an expedition member doesn't mean losing their carrying capacity
 
transhumansage said:
yeah but thats not the issue. either the jlu giveback what they stole from him or batman's identity gets exposed. and as he said in the dark knight rises, the mask protects more people than just bruce wayne.
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Peter could try, but he would get laughed out of everything since that old rumor has already been disproved by Batman and Bruce Wayne being seen in the same place at the same time.



Mr Zoat said:
He can prove that he's had it since he completed his citizenship application in Britain 12, because he included it in the paperwork.
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Which is completely meaningless unless he can prove the ring came into his position legally.

And he can't.
 
Vaermina said:
Peter could try, but he would get laughed out of everything since that old rumor has already been disproved by Batman and Bruce Wayne being seen in the same place at the same time
.
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And if Cadmus exists and is willing to help him then he can prove that Bruce and Batman are the same guy.

He also has access to advanced tech and brilliant minds that can help him prove it.

He can also cast doubt and say that the previous times they saw them in the same room it was really Manhunter in his form, or some lookalike, or a robot.

The courts are probably going to take the word of the guy that provides their country with electricity a lot more seriously than they do a lot of other people that come in claiming Bruce and Batman are the same guy.

Vaermina said:
Which is completely meaningless unless he can prove the ring came into his position legally.

And he can't.
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Why are you criticising what Zoat is stating when he can't read what you say due to blocking you when you said he was wrong about what happened in his story, even though he wrote the thing and you refused to stop your insinuations even when he provided you with proof that you were wrong?

It seems like you're trying to make yourself seem smart by lecturing a deaf guy who can't hear that what you're saying is utter shit.

It's just pathetic at this point.

Zoat can just make it so that the laws in Britain on Earth 12 allow him to own the ring if the previous owner does not come in to challenge that claim.

Hinon of Earth 12 may be in a coma, or she may not exist and Peter got his ring from another version of a DC universe, so her trying to challenge him on who owns it may be somewhat difficult.

Peter could also have a recording in which the ring states it chose him as its wielder, so that would most likely settle whether or not he got it legally.
 
Darko said:
And if Cadmus exists and is willing to help him then he can prove that Bruce and Batman are the same guy.
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Cadmus was already destroyed, check the timeline.

He also has access to advanced tech and brilliant minds that can help him prove it.
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He could certainly try, but without access to his ring he has no way to beat the leagues security.

He can also cast doubt and say that the previous times they saw them in the same room it was really Manhunter in his form, or some lookalike, or a robot.
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Only the local equivalent to the national enquirer would pick that up.

The courts are probably going to take the word of the guy that provides their country with electricity a lot more seriously than they do a lot of other people that come in claiming Bruce and Batman are the same guy.
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Not really, he would need really hard proof before the courts wouldn't just toss the claim out.
 
Cadmus still exists at this point, and there are references to Waller building the suicide squad.

Amanda Waller is still a respected member of the government, and Peter could call her to testify about Bruce's identity if nothing else there...

And I half expect him to have this conversation on tape...

On top of that, there is proof that batman broke into Peter's home, meaning that, if nothing else, that's another crime. They admitted they at they took the ring, that's another felony because it's alien tech and worth quite a bit there. The rest of the league handled it and passed it on to the Guardians, that's handling stolen property. From the conversation, the league does not dispute those, which means that they cannot argue against those as facts.

And having alien technology is not a crime, and they made zero accusations about him having illegally acquired the ring...they would also need to prove that the Guardians were the ones to make the ring in the first place to make the claim of returning it to the owner. And they could, probably force Wonder Woman's involvement with the lasso. To prove the facts of the case...
 
Vaermina said:
Cadmus was already destroyed, check the timeline.


He could certainly try, but without access to his ring he has no way to beat the leagues security.


Only the local equivalent to the national enquirer would pick that up.


Not really, he would need really hard proof before the courts wouldn't just toss the claim out.
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Even if Cadmus was destroyed, governments would still be wary of the League, but now they would hesitate before sending an army of metahumans to attack them, but taking legal action against them may be something they are wiling to do.

He may not have his ring, but in case you've forgotten, which I'm sure you have, he has at least dozens of scientifically gifted people working for him, who may be able to beat League security.

The Leagues security has been beaten before, and it didn't require a power ring.

Other newspapers could decide to pick it up, due to the fact that it is an interesting story with great ramifications.

And Peter could also just buy newspaper companies, respectable ones, and have them publish it.

Peter could easily be recording his meeting with the League, where they admitted they stole his ring and gave it to someone else, using some of his advanced tech, that the League can't detect due to its nature.

The courts would also be hesitant to just toss away the case of the guy that's supplying multiple countries with electricity, and who has a small army of supervillains working for him.

They may be okay with the League punching ordinary crooks in the face and arresting them, but they may draw the line at the League breaking into the homes of productive, and wealthy, members of society and stealing their property without good cause.

The League in Earth 12 has no charter with the UN that allows then to do this, or any charter really.

If you say that they do have a charter then leave actual evidence like a link to it, because your word is shit.

Peter and the courts could also ask that Wonder Woman uses her Lasso on both Peter and Batman to see if the ring was really stolen, and if both she and Bats refuse that, well, then people will become suspicious of them.
 
Faed Away (part 2)
  • Threadmarks
    • 4th May
    18:51 GMT -5

    "This.. way."

    Anarawd leads us through the desertified land that was once farmed by the Columbians. Scraggly grass sprouts through the dried plates of soil on the ground, and dead trees act as the only windbreak. A few miles away I can see the sea for the first time since coming to this planet, surf eating away at a shore with nothing to anchor it in place.

    It looks like some combination of the passage of hundreds of years, hostile spellcraft and the elements have destroyed whatever the first generation built here. I'm a little surprised that there isn't some sort of monument here, but I suppose that would be somewhat out of character for the practical Columbians to build something they didn't have a material need for.

    "How did it get like this? I mean, this whole continent has been pretty heavily forested."

    Our guide, a local man named Peter, shrugs.

    "Which part? This land is not a joyful place."

    "The soil. If this happened in Melmoth's era, it should have recovered by now."

    Abednego considers my question. "I think it started with rampaging Sheeda-beasts." He pats his spider on the head. "They be wont to run riot when unbound."

    "And that damages the soil?"

    "Much of their bodies are poisonous, and their habits are destructive. They are made for our labour, not to be a free part of Creation. The soil needs creatures to maintain it, and they were not proof against such things."

    "Al.. right."

    "We lack goodly records of the fight with Melmoth, but battle magics which drain vitality come natural to such as us."

    Anarawd twitches, earning a curious narrowing of the eyes from Abednego.

    "Some part of this could be from then, but I suspect that the greater part of it is more recent." Peter glares at the back of Abednego's head. "How long ago was it, witch-man?"

    "Eighty years, or thereabouts."

    "What was?"

    Peter glowers. "An unwise warlock came here, searching for the means to undo the changes her body had gone through. Witch-hunters followed and found our town."

    "Your town? Did they scout the area?"

    "Nay. We used to live here. 'Tis the obvious thing to do, when you are no longer welcome in Columbia. The Sheeda-beasts live here in larger numbers than anywhere else, and there is the lure of finding relics. We gave the warlock refuge… But we did not spot the witch-hunters."

    "And they did this? Or… No. They went back and got friends."

    Abednego sighs. "Aye. That was the last time the might of Columbia was roused in wrath."

    I look around the blasted landscape.

    "Alright. An indiscriminate bombardment… Because the Columbians didn't know exactly what you had or-."

    "Or they did not care."

    "This is a pretty enthusiastic bombardment. I've only seen long arms with enchanted bullets."

    Abednego raises his right arm and points to a.. shallow pond a short distance away.

    "Witch-hunters mostly hunt warlocks and Sheeda-beasts, or apprehend more common criminals. But some have knowledge of true battle magics. They are not much called for…"

    "The first our grandparents knew of it, the mere touch of the land burned all who stood upon it."

    "Didn't they have defences?"

    "Aye, wards to detect the beasts, or tell us when a new warlock was coming in case they were one of the truly mad. We remember Klarion even now."

    "Good news on that score."

    "We know that he left these lands."

    "No, I mean that he's dead. I was part of the team that finished him."

    "That is good news. But what one madman did, another can do as well."

    "There's a way around that, but… Yes."

    He frowns. "What way?"

    "There's a limit on the number of Lords of Chaos who can be active in a particular area. If someone who isn't a criminal lunatic does it and then sticks around, you don't have to worry about someone who is doing it." I frown. "Um, sorry. Off-topic. So they weren't prepared for a Columbian attack?"

    "No. They were not. Our protections are somewhat stronger, now. And we too study the magic of war."

    "I've offered to just move all your people to somewhere else on the planet."

    "Would that stop the Columbians coming for us?"

    "It would make it far harder for them, and give you time to entrench yourselves."

    "And our crops? And our beasts?"

    "Crops I can move. Beasts… You'd have to make arrangements for them, but yes."

    "And what would it cost us?"

    "You wouldn't be here to pick up anyone who goes warlock in the future. You wouldn't have access to-" I look around again. "-this place, but if you weren't getting much out of it anyway-."

    "If they were not getting much out of it then they were not looking correctly."

    Anarawd raises his hands and gestures, a thin tower that looks like it was grown from coral shimmering into view. Peter and Abednego both blink, staring at it.

    "Dark Melmoth may have hidden his tools from human eyes, but he made little effort to hide them from ours. Or perhaps he did, and time or his death has unmade them."

    Mr Yao lays his right hand on the door, humming quietly for a moment.

    "And what lays within?"

    "My salvation." I frown as Anarawd looks around the group. "You will not defeat the Harrowing. Your future is in our blood. But the Queen will have my body given to the digestion vats if I return as I am now. My only way to buy myself back into her good graces is to discover Dark Melmoth's plans, and convey that information to her. My colleagues and I did not do more than a brief survey of the outer parts. We felt that the reward did not outweigh the risk. But if what you want is in here then our interests coincide."

    I narrow my eyes-. Looks like he's telling the truth, and the witch-people went over him for arcane defences so I suspect that it's genuine. I nod to Mr Yao.

    "As you say. Take us inside, and show us what you have found so far."
     
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