• The site has now migrated to Xenforo 2. If you see any issues with the forum operation, please post them in the feedback thread.
  • Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
  • For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
  • Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
  • Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
  • The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Is the syndicate doing a minority rule? Or are they staying as criminal elements rather than governmental?
 
Mr Zoat said:
"The Crime Syndicate needs an ideology. Even if it's just feudalism. Some reason to make its members stick together and stay orderly beyond simple gratification and personal safety. Some rules for everyone to follow, including the Management. Or some way to convince everyone to accept a binding geas, which was Zorina's preferred option. We need… Something that can unify people. Any ideas?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Shouldn't that just say 'Syndicate'? Baul specifically said that's what they called themselves when Paul called them the Crime Syndicate.

Chojin Patriarch said:
...Who's Mary again, and why is she so... Bloody-minded? No, wait... Superwoman's sidekick?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Technically, she's Superwoman's other half. They somehow got split, but Mary still has her powers and doesn't become an adult anymore.
 
Duke Long said:
'let them'
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thank you, corrected.
I would be shocked if his plan was to leave the ash cloud in place for a couple of weeks with only that one area cleared. I agree that I'm not sure how feasible his plan is, but the idea that he's going to leave the global cloud in place just doesn't seem possible. He'd be condemning them all to starving and warring for a couple of weeks, and while he totally would do that if he had something better to do, I don't think he does.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's actually quite hard for people at that level of technology to make war upon each other. Organising, building up supplies and then moving take a long time.
Dakkan Sall said:
I'm guessing this should be "ideal" rather than "idea"?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, that's correct. No big idea. No guiding idea.
DAT_NOOB said:
Is the syndicate doing a minority rule? Or are they staying as criminal elements rather than governmental?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The rulers are always a minority.
Ngamer11 said:
Shouldn't that just say 'Syndicate'? Baul specifically said that's what they called themselves when Paul called them the Crime Syndicate.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thank you, corrected.
 
Are you seriously telling me to believe that the supervillains are not doing a colonialism on a massive scale and squeezing the locals like a lord would a peasant?
 
Mr Zoat said:
Meanwhile, on Earth -14
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah Baul. One of the least successful versions of Paul.

Wonder if he managed to beg borrow or steal a lantern on his space honeymoon?

"Why not let them fight it out, and kill the survivors we don't like?" Mary smiles as the rest stare.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A decent suggestion. These are after all a bunch of violent narcissists, even if regular Paul did manage to relocate them somewhere their violence can temporarily be useful. Thinning the herd is no bad thing. Although it would be better to be selective in which they kill rather than taking the lazy way out.
 
Rafin said:
Are you seriously telling me to believe that the supervillains are not doing a colonialism on a massive scale and squeezing the locals like a lord would a peasant?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Rob a man of everything he has today, and he has nothing tomorrow.

Get things running day to day while skimming a chunk off the top, and you can keep skimming.

Squeeze too hard and you break bones.

BL here convinced em to do it the second way, now he's trying to convince them to stay on the second way.
 
DAT_NOOB said:
Haha, very funny.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thank you, I'm here all night.

Try the veal.

It's the closest you can legally get to eating a Frenchman.
The question still stands are they government or still criminal elements?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are very briefly non-Syndicate criminal elements.
And can non-superpowered locals hold office?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sure, the Syndicate need administrators. And there are plenty of Syndicate members who don't really have super powers. If you mean 'are there elected officials outside of Syndicate control', no.
Rafin said:
Are you seriously telling me to believe that the supervillains are not doing a colonialism on a massive scale and squeezing the locals like a lord would a peasant?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, because the total number of Made Men isn't actually all that large. There aren't enough of them to colonise an area. If you give someone a choice of 'you can have this plantation owner ruling over you' and 'you can have this American supervillain ruling over you, and you'll pay less and have more security' then quite a few people will go for the second. Not all, but I can't list the counterexamples on this site.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
Let me guess, the Kents ran produce markets with an iron fist? :p
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think it was once mentioned that they once brought in undocumented immigrants to work drug farms.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Who's Mary again, and why is she so... Bloody-minded? No, wait... Superwoman's sidekick?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's a bit weirder than that.

Apparently the adult Superwoman was how Mary would look when she transformed, but somehow they separated and the adult version gained supremacy.
 
Rafin said:
Are you seriously telling me to believe that the supervillains are not doing a colonialism on a massive scale and squeezing the locals like a lord would a peasant?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The ones who didn't have the self control to go along with Baul and Paul's scheme, or weren't scared enough to stay in line, already died or got caught during their war with the American government.
 
Pinklestia said:
Also you can be legit and evil, like the Colonial Spanish Empire that used to rule a lot of the American Continental to get all the gold and silver.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Spanish Empire were 'evil' by the standard of the modern day (some historians largely outside of Spain) but their ideology was exploration and Catholic evangelicalism. They believed that they had a God given mission to convert the natives and explore the New World.

What Baul is saying is that the Made Men doesn't have that central ideology to unite them is the problem, if it helps I'd suggest some type of metahuman nationalism. Rome believed that they founded by the refugees of ancient Troy, I can't see why the new Management doesn't make up a similar new mythology.
 
Ngamer11 said:
Can you explain it then? Because I don't get it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A scud is a type of extremely cheap and extremely stupid rocket that can't fly straight or aim for shit, but it blows up real good. They were used as missile en masse because they costs a hundredth to make and were faster to build than smart munitions. Why have one expensive smart bomb when you can just throw a thousand dumb ones and know you'll hit what you're aiming at eventually and then all the misses are just bonus collateral damage anyways.
 
0zymandias said:
The Spanish Empire were 'evil' by the standard of the modern day
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They were evil for any country that wasn't Spain, but they also were wasting a lot of gold and silver, so money dear boy.

I could mention the Brtish and the Opium Wars that even by the standards of the era it happened it was all kinds of fucked up
 
Pinklestia said:
They were evil for any country that wasn't Spain, but they also were wasting a lot of gold and silver, so money dear boy.

I could mention the Brtish and the Opium Wars that even by the standards of the era it happened it was all kinds of fucked up
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Colonism of the type of the early Spanish Empire was quite literally the first of its kind and they had no one they could learn from. It was brutal exploitation and wasteful in human lives but applying 21st century morals to 15th century countries is rarely an effective method of analysing history. As for wasting gold and silver, the Spanish Empire was a medieval empire with a financial and logistic system that would absolutely seem laughably inefficient to us.

The Opium Wars started by the EIC and later supported by the British government of the time had their opponents and supporters as does any government policy does, then and now. The same way we have anti-war and anti-capitalist protesters today is the same way there existed anti war and anti capitalist protesters in past years, even if they called themselves something else. Not a small portion of people consider both Gulf Wars, and Afghanistan War as 'evil' and 'fucked' up.
 
Vaermina said:
Given at this point the main Paul has made things worse by a rather large amount, I would say Baul is actually one of the more successful version.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Has Paul made things worse? Earth may be in worse shape but hasn't main Paul helped multiple worlds a great deal with the peace in Vega and forming the Orange Corp to fight the Reach?

Pinklestia said:
Grayven seems to be the more successful in reforming bad guys save for the version in DC whose ring is dead.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Pinklestia said:
Probably because he is not getting mind fucked by a power ring?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Or because he is concentrating on reforming supervillains instead spreading his efforts in multiple directions.
 
Last edited:
Darinby said:
Has Paul made things worse?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

For Earth yes, for the rest of the universe? Hard to tell yet.

Do notice that while Grayven is the neutral ending, the author never said Oh El is the good ending.

Darinby said:
Or because he is concentrating on reforming supervillains instead spreading his efforts in multiple directions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Honesty If most supervillains of Earth worked together they would make Power Rings look like mere toys.
 
Darinby said:
Has Paul made things worse? Earth may be in worse shape but hasn't main Paul helped multiple worlds a great deal with the peace in Vega and forming the Orange Corp to fight the Reach?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Absolutely.

Putting aside the Earth Issue, his clearing of Vega handed Grayven multiple armies that he has since used to wipe out dozens of planets. And creating the Orange Lantern Corp was at the cost of the much more effective Green Lanterns going to war with The Reach.
 
Meanwhile, on Earth -14
  • Threadmarks
    • Meanwhile, on Earth -14

    21st January 2013
    12:58 GMT +2

    "Back already?"

    I switch back from my 'work costume' to something a little more appropriate for the home. "I think they need a little while." Sounds like Zorina's in her workshop, so I head in that direction. "And Jackie and Arrowette showed up hung over."

    "How did Raquel look?"

    "Better. She actually voluntarily spoke in order to ask questions." I hold out my right hand to the workshop door and let the wards confirm my identity. "But I think that's her limit."

    The locks unlock and the door swings open, prompting Zorina to look up from where she's working on the tubes attached to Madness Marine's head. One of the projects that's allowed me to pretend to be a 'better' villain than I am, increase my personal power and social influence.

    Carlyle shudders as a new batch of Hope flows from the Mask and into the tubing, and through them into the device which squirts into the vials for distribution. Bit of a shame there's only one Medusa Mask as that limits production, but I'm sure we'll work out a way around that eventually.

    Pure hope: an entirely legal high with a positive effect on a person's wellbeing as well as recharging the ring while looking dodgy as heck. A perfectly squared circle.

    "Naelc."

    Zorina-. My.. wife shimmers as her magic removes small amounts of blood and oil from her navy blue Howie laboratory coat and skin, as well as removing unwanted arcane energies which might have attached to her during her work. That done, she walks towards me with a contented smile on her face. I find myself smiling too as I move towards her in return. We embrace, her arms going around my back and mine going around her shoulders.

    I didn't love her when we married, but somewhere along the line-.

    "Ghhhagh?" My head jerks around immediately. "Aaaaynnnyyaa?"

    "She's fine, darling." Zorina pulls away, walking over to the crib and bending over to smile at Zita. "Daddy's a big worry-wart, isn't he?"

    "Mmmeuuaaagh."

    I come up behind her, looking over her shoulder at our daughter. No idea what version of the family magic she'll end up with, but she managed to dodge comic-Jade's problem of having ring-coloured skin. She sees me and smiles, haphazardly waving her flabby little arms…

    "Hi Zita!" I can feel myself grinning. "Hi Zita! Hi..!"

    "Eeeeeghuuuh!"

    Zorina reaches into the crib and picks up my-. Our daughter, carefully supporting her head as she pulls her up to her chest. Zita flops against her, hands weakly reaching to grip Zorina's coat.

    "Sutats? Not hungry, doesn't need to be changed and doesn't need to sleep."

    "I can read to her if you need to keep working here?"

    "Is that a dig?"

    "A dig?" She nods towards the corner of the room while keeping her eyes on our daughter. I follow her-. An exercise mat, water bottle, small dumbbells and a skipping rope. Zorina has been merciless towards her baby weight, and… "No! No, I meant-."

    She snorts. "I know, silly."

    "Not that I don't appreciate your efforts, but I know you can be sensitive about-."

    She giggles, wrapping her free arm around me so that Zita is touching both of us. "You must be the worst supervillain ever. The best… Bad supervillain ever?"

    "I prefer anti-villain, and I hope so. Any messages while I was out?"

    "Grandmother's people sent a message. They think that there's an auspicious time to introduce Zita to the coven."

    "Should you be… Telling me about that?"

    "I think it's one of those 'test-of-loyalty' things."

    "I literally can't imagine you failing a test."

    "No, I pass because I'm loyal to my husband and daughter. I've been to coven meetings before and they're not that interesting. It's just a bunch of old women gathered around a fire pit and evoking demons. There probably won't even be any blood."

    "How dull."

    "The Zatara Family is a family, and you and Zita are my family." She looks up to nuzzle my face. "And you're much more important to me than some wizened hags in a cave in Aquileia or some cousin I share an ancestor with thirty generations ago. Oh, but don't call them hags outside of this room."

    "I won't. Is it dangerous?"

    "No, no." She looks down, smiling at Zita as she reaches for her face and rocking her back and forth. "They'll just perform an augury."

    "How will they perform an augury without blood?"

    "They get the animal from the local butcher already bled. It saves a lot of effort with the clean-up and doesn't affect the augury at all. But it's mostly about introducing the new Zatara to their doting great aunts. The augury's just an excuse."

    "So I don't need to worry about them sticking pins in a me-shaped doll?"

    "Paul." She moves her free hand to my right cheek. "You're part of the family. All those pins are just there to help."

    "Uubababah?"

    "Uuuuuh."

    I turn my head to look at our 'emotion cow'. "Should Zita be in here with him?"

    "Why not? He can't move with a broken neck."

    "I'm not suggesting that we keep our occupation secret from her or anything, but it might help if we wait to do a full introduction until she's old enough to be able to put it in the proper context. You know, 'this person did this and that's why we're doing this' rather than 'sometimes Mummy and Daddy do this to people'."

    "Daddy didn't do that with me."

    "I… I think, darling, that this is one of those disconnects that someone raised in a supervillain household has from people who weren't."

    She nods. "That's the second one in this conversation."

    "What was the first?"

    "You offered to look after Zita while I kept working."

    "Yes?"

    She sighs, resting the side of her face against my chest. "In the Zatara family, that's the mother's job. Daddy raised me after Mommy died, but that's unusual. I know you didn't mean to imply that I'm a bad mother-"

    "No, of course not."

    "-but that's what it would have sounded like to another Zatara. And I want Zita to grow up in a more traditional household. Because…" She sighs. "We're doing a lot of things that… Change the way supervillainy works. And if that means that you have to be alpha-dominant in public so our people respect you more, then that's what you need to do. I know you respect me. You don't have to assume that I'm going to forget."

    "Obey the small rules so you can break the big ones."

    "That's from Nineteen Eight-Four, isn't it?" I nod, though it didn't work in the long run for the character who tried it. "And… I want to make it easier for Zita to fit in with the family. Mommy… Dying, meant that I never got that chance."

    "Okay. I'll… Try that. Can we go and play with her together? Or do I need to tell you to get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich?"

    She nods. "What do you want in it?"

    …

    Um.
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • Mr Zoat said:
    The locks unlock and the door swings open, prompting Zorina to look up from where she's working on the tubes attached to Madness Marine's head. One of the projects that's allowed me to pretend to be a 'better' villain than I am, increase my personal power and social influence.

    Carlyle shudders as a new batch of Hope flows from the Mask and into the tubing, and through them into the device which squirts into the vials for distribution. Bit of a shame there's only one Medusa Mask as that limits production, but I'm sure we'll work out a way around that eventually.

    Pure hope: an entirely legal high with a positive effect on a person's wellbeing as well as recharging the ring while looking dodgy as heck. A perfectly squared circle.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Is there a particular reason for them to pick this guy as the person to supply the Hope drug? Also, Madness Marine is an interesting name for a superhero, unless he's one of the more radical ones. Also, this shows that Baul now has a good idea on how to do bad things to introduce positive effects. I hope Paul and Baul will swap notes again in the future.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "No, I pass because I'm loyal to my husband and daughter. I've been to coven meeting before and they're not that interesting. It's just a bunch of old women gathered around a fire pit and evoking demons. There probably won't even be any blood."
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    That should say 'meetings'.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "Paul." She moves her free hand to my right cheek. "You're part of the family. All those pins are just there to help."
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    So Zorina remembered that Zatanna called OL by his real name, so now she can call Baul that when in private. Does anyone else in the Syndicate know his first name?
     
    Reader mode
    You must log in or register to reply here.

    Users who are viewing this thread

  • ... and 9 more.
    • Total: 83 (members: 22, guests: 61)
    Back
    Top