Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[ses]

Turn 22, Selene scries for an Edge weapon
Turn 23, expedition
Turn 24, study artifacts
Turn 25, Biedde sacrament

You know if we end Biedde's contract rather than pay the bits we get him back just in time to be ready to take his Sacrament. And that 180 bits could pay for a lot of MITL AP in the meanwhile...

Plus of course there's 3 turns that we're doing things like visiting Tall Tale and could stumble ass-first into beating up a Worthy Opponent at any moment now that we're free of maluses. We know from Comet v Shining that the personal Edge sacrament can actually be a total dumpster trucking if you're lucky enough to run into a chump with only +25 personal combat and no rerolls. In fact I kinda wanna take an Edge attention instead of a Lantern one next turn so that we can have that bit of extra safety fighting changelings, and honestly the Lantern attention doesn't really matter for studying the important items if we're bringing a max level Lantern influence to the turn. Possibly spend Comet Feet's action on an Edge attention and our free attention on a Lantern one?

Honestly, I just feel a lot more comfortable with "go to war and at some point we'll inevitably run into an enemy who is also a worthy foe" than the whole "scry a scumbag who is also a worthy foe and hunt them down Punisher style". Like that second one is way creepier to me than the first. More action efficient too.

 

[Shaper47]

Turn 22, Selene scries for an Edge weapon

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With what lantern?

The artifact failed to get studied.

 

[Nevermort]

She does both.
End.

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It also attracts bigger and smarter Worms, whom Luna can't kill yet. Perhaps if Starswirl actually taught her Lores and warned about Worms she would have been more successful. Even with that Harmony would need to greatly expand in its strength to counter what seems to be continent sized Worms. And Harmony expansion takes over Wood which is what prompted Master to act. Since Mansus reflects Wake and vise verse in Equestria it likely corresponds to spreading Harmony to other nations, which was Twilight task in the later seasons. It is hardly doable now as our Twilight is not up to the task and between Paranoia, Evil and Ash other nations are unlikely to be up for any kind of cooperation. I imagine any kind of friendship missions with foreign dignitaries greatly increased in the difficulty, so even canon Twilight would be hard pressed to accomplish much.
Of course, there is always option to send Mareinette to befriend them

We know from Comet v Shining that the personal Edge sacrament can actually be a total dumpster trucking if you're lucky enough to run into a chump with only +25 personal combat and no rerolls. In fact I kinda wanna take an Edge attention instead of a Lantern one next turn so that we can have that bit of extra safety fighting changelings, and honestly the Lantern attention doesn't really matter for studying the important items if we're bringing a max level Lantern influence to the turn. Possibly spend Comet Feet's action on an Edge attention and our free attention on a Lantern one?

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I agree with taking Edge Influence, but not with spending Baldomare actions just so we can study more books.It pushes SH sacrament further down the line and it blocks Velvet's own SH sacrament and Moon Tower exploration both of which honestly sounds more promising than Manehattan expeditions.

 

[DelightedOne]

It also attracts bigger and smarter Worms, whom Luna can't kill yet. Perhaps if Starswirl actually taught her Lores and warned about Worms she would have been more successful.

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But Velvet taught her about the lores and she also knows about the Worms even if she doesn't remember everything. Wouldn't that by your logic mean she has a chance of making Worm hunting a net positive?

 

[Nevermort]

But Velvet taught her about the lores and she also knows about the Worms even if she doesn't remember everything. Wouldn't that by your logic mean she has a chance of making Worm hunting a net positive?

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I would not be surprised if it was how it was meant to be and Starswirl just screwed things with his disdain for Lores. But also dealing with top tier Worms is the task for Hours. Which is probably why Velvet getting Glory considered to be winning condition. For Harmony to reach similar levels of strength it likely needs to take Glory or become its equal in most ways that matter. So Harmony win would be either to keep spreading until it reaches Glory ( which is most likely its original plan) or have Velvet bring it somehow to Glory, as I assume it is more or less immobile currently.

Bringing Harmony to other kingdoms just seems like something that would take too long for quest even in the best case conditions, so I imagine that Velvet would come up with some kind of shortcut for it that we may or may not like.

Regardless, even if we don't get Harmony ending I think Mareinette would be good diplomat to improve ties with other nations. After all she respect hosts and would not refuse any food offered, even if it has meat in it. She would rather enjoy it actually.

 

[DelightedOne]

So Harmony win would be either to keep spreading until it reaches Glory ( which is most likely its original plan) or have Velvet bring it somehow to Glory, as I assume it is more or less immobile currently.

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The information we got was that we needed to hide the Lights and I think it wasn't just because we had a Moth Master.

REACHING HARMONY

Another way is to reach Harmony, and teach it how to hide. The light of ponykind is what attracts the Worms to the Dreamlands, and both the light and the Dreamlands appear to be a provenance of Harmony, somehow. Gaining access to Harmony, and somehow interacting with it, might allow you to simply hide that light and protect the world.

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[Nevermort]

The information we got was that we needed to hide the Lights and I think it wasn't just because we had a Moth Master.

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Hiding from Worms is such Master-like decision that I find a notion that it is in fact Master flavored Harmony ending to be quite believable. And it also not something that Harmony itself currently intends to do , as its actions contradict it.

It is also what Wolf ending does to hide Equestria from Worms, just without negotiating with Harmony part. I kind of doubt that it just multiple endings that lead to Equestria hiding from Worms, instead of hiding just being Master preferred solution.

Also we destroyed most Moth artifacts so there is nothing to actully hide Harmony with . Well maybe Moth aligned Alicorn would be sufficient. But well, we offed Master, so the only one available is Luna. I could kind of see something like Luna reaching lvl 7 in Moth lore to be winning condition for this route, but without Master it would be very hard to pull off.

 

[DelightedOne]

And it also not something that Harmony itself currently intends to do , as its actions contradict it.

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I don't quite understand this point of view, since Harmony made Celestia to nurture(absolute good) and Luna to defend(necessary evil) I don't think it would be opposed to hiding the Lights to avoid the Worms. I could see it looking for a better way that does not involve hiding it in the future like wards, to make sure those that would need or want to live in Equestria(like the the Outsider that was Luna and Celestia) could see the Lights and get close to the border but considering this is the best option we have at the moment I doubt it would disagree.

It is also what Wolf ending does to hide Equestria from Worms, just without negotiating with Harmony part. I kind of doubt that it just multiple endings that lead to Equestria hiding from Worms, instead of hiding just being Master preferred solution.

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Nononononononononononononononononono. The Wolf douses the Lights, ends them, puts the Fires of Harmony out.

To be fair besides the Master we got that information from a QM message too so I guess it could be the only viable option at the moment.

Also we destroyed most Moth artifacts so there is nothing to actully hide Harmony with

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One more reason to go for Moth 6?

 

[Nevermort]

I don't quite understand this point of view, since Harmony made Celestia to nurture(absolute good) and Luna to defend(necessary evil) I don't think it would be opposed to hiding the Lights to avoid the Worms. I could see it looking for a better way that does not involve hiding it in the future like wards, to make sure those that would need or want to live in Equestria(like the the Outsider that was Luna and Celestia) could see the Lights and get close to the border but considering this is the best option we have at the moment I doubt it would disagree.


Nononononononononononononononononono. The Wolf douses the Lights, ends them, puts the Fires of Harmony out.

To be fair besides the Master we got that information from a QM message too so I guess it could be the only viable option at the moment.


One more reason to go for Moth 6?

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We don't know much about Harmony, but currently I view it more like concept than persona. Harmony actions spread harmony, and it quite possible that it just can't stop on its own. Like child can't stop growing. Or like Moth that flew to burn in the Glory. Luna and Celestia were necessary to defeat Discord and to establish and defend Equestria but those are all actions necessary to increasing Harmony. If Harmony is anything like Hours then they just can't take actions that are contrary to their nature.
You tell Harmony to stop glowing so bright and it either don't understand you or informs you that it have no clue how to do it.

Maybe we can teach it through Luna, but without Master to give us Lessons it looks like quite difficult task.

Alternatively as it showed ability to turn ponies (Cadance) and even Outsiders (Luna and Celestia) into Alicorns, no reason it can't do the same to the willing Name. Master was the most willing to take change, but I think there may be a few more Names who would be okay with it. It would probably be faster than teaching Luna too, although it would not help with Moth Lore much, but as I mentioned I think that any Lore (if we had different Lore Master) would have its own solution, or at least would have offered its own way to hide Harmony if it is indeed only option.

Forge Name is usually okay with the change, although for increased closeness with Harmony it may be better for Luna to build them. I also don't think that in Luna case they would take child form. Both she and DoA direct most of their love toward sisters, so in Luna's case they may look like young robot Celestia instead. Or maybe batpony if they even exist in this quest . In DoA case probably snakepony. Also if DoA is doing summoning we need to ask Silky to help with Knock part, for increased Harmony connection of course. And to make Silky faction unstoppable.

Mareinette could maybe do it too?Very unlikely but if Cadance is wildly successful, then maybe? Friendship Princess Mareinette is as unlikely as its funny.

 

[DelightedOne]

You tell Harmony to stop glowing so bright and it either don't understand you or informs you that it have no clue how to do it.

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But the thing we want isn't "stop glowing"(that is Wolf business) it is "hide yourself so the predators can't find us", if we could raise a wall or curtain that stops the Light from leaking out of the World it would be enough.

Alternatively as it showed ability to turn ponies (Cadance) and even Outsiders (Luna and Celestia) into Alicorns, no reason it can't do the same to the willing Name.

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Ascension doesn't feel like something to be done on the spot like that(like lore Ascensions you need to do a couple of things first), but with direct access to Harmony I guess the Names could be reformed like the changelings. I still think the theory of Harmony being a reborn form of the gods-from-Light fits, even if they are not conscious and are just machines there should be some awareness of the World since Velvet has been noticed before, Luna's first parents knew to see her(and also could) and Harmony powered the Rite of the Mother and Father.

 

[Nevermort]

But the thing we want isn't "stop glowing"(that is Wolf business) it is "hide yourself so the predators can't find us", if we could raise a wall or curtain that stops the Light from leaking out of the World it would be enough.

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Citation that you have given in the earlier post directly mentions teaching Harmony to hide. And if Master had power to simply cover it he would have done it immediately, no need to ask Harmony about it.

Also Wolf does not eat Harmony. It is Glory that goes dark. Harmony is still around as we saw with cutie marks still appearing. It just constantly being stopped from spreading, starved so it can't grow.

Ascension doesn't feel like something to be done on the spot like that(like lore Ascensions you need to do a couple of things first), but with direct access to Harmony I guess the Names could be reformed like the changelings.

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Well if Cadance does not work, we can steal elements of Harmony (gems I mean), gather Mane 6 and find someone to blast with it. If Mareinette poses as Twilight during the charging process all Harmony power from the rest will go to her. No one knows what happens next, but it sure will be valuable for science.

I still think the theory of Harmony being a reborn form of the gods-from-Light fits, even if they are not conscious and are just machines there should be some awareness of the World since Velvet has been noticed before, Luna's first parents knew to see her(and also could) and Harmony powered the Rite of the Mother and Father.

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I don't really argue against possibility of Harmony being conscious. It could even be super intelligent. But being intelligent and being able to go against its nature are two different things. Moth was intelligent and still flew to the Glory. Master wanted for Harmony to change him, so they can change Harmony from within, which is suitable approach for Moth. Forge Name may just need to hammer at it for a few days assuming it allowed to do so.

 

[DelightedOne]

Citation that you have given in the earlier post directly mentions teaching Harmony to hide. And if Master had power to simply cover it he would have done it immediately, no need to ask Harmony about it.

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He would if he could reach it, but Harmony is somewhere no one knows and can only be reached by using Selene and Celestia.

 

[Nevermort]

He would if he could reach it, but Harmony is somewhere no one knows and can only be reached by using Selene and Celestia.

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Worms arrive at Dreamlands because Dreamland is the thing that glows. Master had access to Dreamscape, if he was able to cover it he would have done it. The fact that it was Dreamscape that encroached on Woods instead of the other way around indicates that Harmony was already too strong for Master to cover it. If Master was unable to cover Dreamlands not much reason to believe that he would have been able to do it with access to Harmony, especially if it involved cutting it from Dreamscape. Unless it is like maintenance access and in this case it is again similar to changing Harmony.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

The woods used to cover the Dreamlands. The protections weakening is why they did not, even back in Luna's birth time.

 

[Nevermort]

I think Woods covered Mansus and Glory, but Dreamlands appeared later and Woods weren't able to spread there.

Or, if say Woods covered Dreamlands at any point of time and then for some reason stopped being able to do it, Harmony is still most likely culprit. Because I think Master was not aware about Worms in Dreamland before Velvet told him. So they can't be the reason.

Wards are in place to keep Worms away. I am not sure if they have any hiding function, more likely it was Woods role, which they weren't able to carry due to Dreamlands

 

[Greymere]

The woods used to cover the Dreamlands. The protections weakening is why they did not, even back in Luna's birth time.

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No they didn't. The entrance to the Dreamlands is well outside the boundary of the Woods. As in, for the Woods to have covered the Dreamlands, the Woods would have stretched to the crossroads and then some, which we've never been shown was the case.

 

[Pittauro]

We failed the first time in trying to buy an Edge weapon and got pocket sand instead, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was impossible in principle? We could put a Selene AP to scry for "An expedition containing an Edge weapon", after all she gets access to the Lantern 4 artifact next turn if we choose to study it iirc, and it's not a scry that likely needs big dick Baldomare scry numbers. Even just an artifact that gives a +5 artifact bonus would help MASSIVELY in Biedde's invitation, and considering the bonus that the SH artifact gives to study rolls it doesn't seem out of the question. That might be a worthy AP if we end up not wanting to Soothe the Night.

Man in hindsight spending that Jade AP on memory of light was a mistake. She's probably going to need a rest month turn 23, which means we dont get another Jade action till turn 24. Can someone remind me if "Ask Jade/Comet to do a Calling of Influence on Velvet" is a valid action? Or is Calling of Influence self-only? Jade's Lantern 4 and reroll is probably a more sensible use of resources when expedition spam starts bringing a flow of artifact studying to our table rather than a Baldomare action for a max level influence that only lasts a turn. Kind of overkill in terms of resources spent when we dont have multiple critical-importance studies to do in the same turn.

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Good point on the Edge weapon, Though I'm not 100% sure we want to wait.

We'd need Turn 22 to study the Lantern Artifact, Turn 23 to scry for the Edge Artifact, and then turn 24 to get it... and presumably do the Sacrament that same turn.

We might just be better off taking a risk and doing the Sacrament earlier, withj just 2 or 3 AotL to help.

As for Jade... we COULD just NOT give her the "rest" month. We're on a tight enough AP budget that I wouldn't even feel bad about it.

You know Level 6 is... actually not out of reach within the scope of the remaining time for one or two Lores? That's three turns of a Befriended name doing nothing but lessons, less any incidental scraps from Expedition loot or Mansus. Very expensive but possible! Honestly less expensive than going from 4 to 5. Consider that we're spending two Mareinette actions for the sake of the Moth sacrament and that doesn't even include the Moth scraps. If we find another level 7 book in a high level expedition that's two scraps at level 5: at which point two full turns of a Befriended Name's lessons start to look like a good deal for the sake of Level 6.

With Selene taking over any Scry needs, I can kinda see us going for Level 6 in Secret Histories. If we wind up getting a scrap or two worth of studyables or Mansus scraps I think we should go for it, since the level 6 benefit seems to be "reroll for ALL checks of that lore" (we've seen Mareinette get rerolls on multiple Grail checks in the same turn, during the Assault on Copper). We have to do a solo Mansus expedition that's notably harder than Red Church to win the game, and Red Church kicked our ass. We cant get a victory in the sort of abridged timeframe some people are talking about committing to: we had to lucksack our way past a CD 120 Lantern check just to find the front door, and there's no indication that the expedition itself wont be just as bad.

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...now that I think about it... With Axe giving Knock Lessons and having TWO actions per turn, we COULD in theory get Knock 6 fairly quickly.

@OurLadyOfWires now that Axe is "friendly", I don't suppose she'd tell us WHAT Knock 6 does? You know, to judge if it's worth using... 6 of her actions to reach it in time for All In.

That said, Axe actions are pretty valuable, as she's our best Expedition Name! Mareinette might arguably be said to be better (+40 instead of +50, BUT +60 for social obstacles compared to Axe's +10, not counting the Lores themselves).

Well, Biedde is better IN COMBAT, but outside of that he's third place.

...oh, the things we could do with a befriended Baldomare though...

for lvl 6, we also saw Biedde rerolling I think one in two rolls, which is PROBABLY due to Edge 6. And yeah, rerolling more things makes sense for Lore 6.

Oh, and technically we don't KNOW that the Malleary is harder than Red Church. For all we know the Malleary is actually safe-ish (unlikely, but technically possible) in comparison.

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@OurLadyOfWires Question: can Risen prepare AotL rituals for us? Specifically for Edge.

 

[ses]

Good point on the Edge weapon, Though I'm not 100% sure we want to wait.

We'd need Turn 22 to study the Lantern Artifact, Turn 23 to scry for the Edge Artifact, and then turn 24 to get it... and presumably do the Sacrament that same turn.

We might just be better off taking a risk and doing the Sacrament earlier, withj just 2 or 3 AotL to help.

As for Jade... we COULD just NOT give her the "rest" month. We're on a tight enough AP budget that I wouldn't even feel bad about it.

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Presumably Selene can use the Lantern artifact on turn 22 if we study the artifact on turn 22. Jade is irrelevant as her turn 22 AP is already spent and she's locked out of turn 22. We would study artifact and do Selene scry on turn 22, turn 23 to fetch it, turn 24 to study it and then do the Sacrament the same turn as we studied it. You forgot we'd need to study the artifact to use it and that cancelled out the fact that Selene can scry on turn 22.

@OurLadyOfWires now that Axe is "friendly", I don't suppose she'd tell us WHAT Knock 6 does? You know, to judge if it's worth using... 6 of her actions to reach it in time for All In.

That said, Axe actions are pretty valuable, as she's our best Expedition Name! Mareinette might arguably be said to be better (+40 instead of +50, BUT +60 for social obstacles compared to Axe's +10, not counting the Lores themselves).

Well, Biedde is better IN COMBAT, but outside of that he's third place.

...oh, the things we could do with a befriended Baldomare though...

for lvl 6, we also saw Biedde rerolling I think one in two rolls, which is PROBABLY due to Edge 6. And yeah, rerolling more things makes sense for Lore 6.

Oh, and technically we don't KNOW that the Malleary is harder than Red Church. For all we know the Malleary is actually safe-ish (unlikely, but technically possible) in comparison.

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We know what Knock 6 does, it gives rerolls to all checks of the lore instead of 1/month. We've already seen the effect in action.

And we have an extremely good idea of what Malleary is like: Ruined Church was a gauntlet of checks of just about every lore at the exact same CD as the Mansus hurdles immediately before and after it on the same floor.

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience Crossover - Mature - Users' Choice!

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The Mansus rolls before and after the Church were all exactly CD 100, as were the rolls inside the Church themselves. Therefore we can expect the Malleary to be a gauntlet of varied lore checks at the exact same CD as the roll we made on the same floor as it: which was the 120 Lantern CD check we just made.