On a Pale Horse (Umamusume/Youjo Senki)

[Winged One]

Shirogane wouldn't be allowed to breed and have her offspring registered as a Thoroughbred, due to the closed stud book requirements.

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So what I'm getting from this is that the fragility of throughbred horses is the result of an absolutely gratutious amount of horse incest.

 

[arky4444]

So what I'm getting from this is that the fragility of throughbred horses is the result of an absolutely gratutious amount of horse incest.

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Three. Foundational. Sires.

 

[Winged One]

There's a major issue with this "fact" in that Uma don't have to have lineage to be born; they can just pop up from human parents. It just simply makes much more sense that any Uma of sufficient talent and backing would be able to race. To not let them would be a textbook case of racism.

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Yes. But you said there was an issue with applying it to an Uma timeline?

Three. Foundational. Sires.

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...that's exactly what it sounds like, isn't it.

 

[The Castle of Jutland]

Three. Foundational. Sires.

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Eh, there's also the thousand more horses imported that also started their own lineages. Yeah the three are the most famous and important, but their not the only ones.

So what I'm getting from this is that the fragility of throughbred horses is the result of an absolutely gratutious amount of horse incest.

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Part of it is the incest, but it's majorly the whole "bred for speed and power" thing. Horses can only be so big and fast before their bodies breakdown/can't support itself.

And because it's the successful horses* that become the most prolific breeders, well, imagine if that horse had a particular "defect" or genetic disease. Or was famously frail like the Sunday Silence line is.

Seriously if I recall correctly there's a genetic disease that's rampant in American racehorses because a highly successful one had it and was then bred with every possible horse and so on.

Now as for Shirogane? I swear Wrandma once mentioned the "irl" Shirogane would be a half thoroughbred and not a "pure" warhorse. Could be wrong though.


* Generally, occasionally you'll find "duds" whose lineages don't really offer anything, has trouble breeding or their offspring don't really succeed.

Oguri Cap famously has had shit offspring.

 

[AngstyAceAnon]

I think I watched a video about the mejijo farm falling due to having spec too much in stam horse while everyone else was maxing speed. ( It was probably because they weren't selling horses until the rep plummeted.)

There's so many reasons why Shiro would be the popular horse for breeding. The quantity of races is probably the most appealing part. Also a horse with no health issues absolutely. Eats less with her temperament like damn. It's still a Big gamble though. But the payout could be huge.

Locks in on g1 due to money would be markup as an individual trait. Scaring other horses and other weird behaviors probably won't be passed on.But what if.

 

[TheSmallSauce]

I think I watched a video about the mejijo farm falling due to having spec too much in stam horse while everyone else was maxing speed.

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The Mejiro farm was already declining due to the prominence of imported stallions like Sunday Silence and Tony Bin, then they got smashed with the fallout of a volcanic eruption. It's ironic, but actually the most successful offspring of the Mejiro family are from breeding into the Sunday Silence bloodline through Stay Gold covering McQueen's daughters.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the thread already, a few pages back, but there is still one horse bearing the Mejiro name: Mejiro Piola, one of Dober's granddaughters. She hasn't had a very successful career so far, her highest placing being 2nd twice and as of her three year old season she's been moved to dirt. She raced on the 2nd of May and placed 13th... for the second time in a row, so the comeback isn't looking likely.

There's so many reasons why Shiro would be the popular horse for breeding. The quantity of races is probably the most appealing part. Also a horse with no health issues absolutely. Eats less with her temperament like damn. It's still a Big gamble though. But the payout could be huge.

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Her appeal is probably the same as Stay Gold's, which is the reputation for durability. Stego ran 50 races over 5 years and 20 of those races were G1s, Shiro will probably have an uncannily similar career trajectory, though it remains to be seen if she will have to wait until the very end of her career to get her G1. Also being a popular broodmare and a popular stallion are two very different situations, and I imagine Shiro will be quite an old horse by the time she retires, so she'll probably not have that many offspring. Which is fine actually, older Shiro being murderously protective of her only child is something that just fits for me; a normally well-behaved and intelligent horse who becomes unruly when you try and separate her from her kid, who eventually escapes her enclosure to go looking for her child once they get sold off to another owner. Hmm, maybe she won't be a popular broodmare after all, can you imagine the nightmare of trying to find and contain a horse that seems to be able to read and is feeling spiteful from having her child kidnapped.

Better yet, never mind the fact that she escaped her enclosure and seems to be completely evading local law enforcement, she's also somehow faster years into retirement than she ever was in her prime. I imagine it would be pleasantly confusing as the one who purchased her foal though, because one morning JRA Hall of Fame horse Shirogane Orzel is just in your backyard looking after her kid. It's a buy-one-the-other-one-chases-you-down deal.

 

[Tiypo]

Yes. But you said there was an issue with applying it to an Uma timeline?

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There's also the fact that those "3 foundational sires" aren't historical figures in the uma-verse; they are goddesses. Names like "Thoroughbred" wouldn't be reflective of that, as claiming so would be to claim divine lineage.

Though that would be a funny origin of the word. A traceable lineage to some Uma queen in Europe that did claim such before getting forced off the throne of her kingdom because she was too damn obsessed with running fast and having sex to bother running the country. Legendary for just how many different consorts she managed to get knocked up by, getting "Thoroughly bred".

 

[eager slacker]

Her appeal is probably the same as Stay Gold's, which is the reputation for durability. Stego ran 50 races over 5 years and 20 of those races were G1s, Shiro will probably have an uncannily similar career trajectory, though it remains to be seen if she will have to wait until the very end of her career to get her G1. Also being a popular broodmare and a popular stallion are two very different situations, and I imagine Shiro will be quite an old horse by the time she retires, so she'll probably not have that many offspring. Which is fine actually, older Shiro being murderously protective of her only child is something that just fits for me; a normally well-behaved and intelligent horse who becomes unruly when you try and separate her from her kid, who eventually escapes her enclosure to go looking for her child once they get sold off to another owner. Hmm, maybe she won't be a popular broodmare after all, can you imagine the nightmare of trying to find and contain a horse that seems to be able to read and is feeling spiteful from having her child kidnapped.

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Whatever team has her would race her for three years but I think that people would notice her performance and have interest in breeding her. This isn't like WWII Imperial Japan where you let your aces die out without replacements. They would breed her with other promising studs and take interest in what results from the offspring. If they had similar inheritable durability then the entire racing community would love to have that trait permeate the industry for everyone's self interest in the long run. Hell the ranch would likely make more money breeding her than from her racing.

 

[Jomasten]

It's too bad we're in the SFW section and not in the NSFW part, with all this talks about breeding

 

[FluffyVoid]

Better yet, never mind the fact that she escaped her enclosure and seems to be completely evading local law enforcement, she's also somehow faster years into retirement than she ever was in her prime. I imagine it would be pleasantly confusing as the one who purchased her foal though, because one morning JRA Hall of Fame horse Shirogane Orzel is just in your backyard looking after her kid. It's a buy-one-the-other-one-chases-you-down deal.

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I can already imagine Shiro suddenly braking into a race just to run next to her kid the whole way through.

 

[TheSmallSauce]

Whatever team has her would race her for three years but I think that people would notice her performance and have interest in breeding her. This isn't like WWII Imperial Japan where you let your aces die out without replacements. They would breed her with other promising studs and take interest in what results from the offspring. If they had similar inheritable durability then the entire racing community would love to have that trait permeate the industry for everyone's self interest in the long run. Hell the ranch would likely make more money breeding her than from her racing.

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Consider: Her owner/team doesn't want to put her up as a broodmare. There are plenty of eccentric owners in the industry after all, maybe Shiro's just happens to be very protective of her and want to see her win a G1 before they retire her.

---

Suzuki Shigeru leaned back into his armchair as a deep sigh escaped him. Life had been kind to him, it was a thought he had very often nowadays, having been blessed with a loving wife and a wonderful daughter. That the restaurant was doing better than ever was a distant afterthought; Shirogane had earned enough racing to see both him and Kat retired five times over. There was really only one issue that seemed to hang like a dark cloud around him, casting an unpleasant shadow over his good moods.

It had started innocent enough, with the occasional letter addressed to his daughter that he reasonably assumed was fan mail, Shiro was getting popular enough for that now that she was in her senior year. Though as the year went on, the quantity of mail seemed to increase at an exponential rate. It was around July that he had really gotten worried though, especially after an incident with unscrupulous paparazzi had resulted in a picture of his daughter and her team from their summer training camp somehow getting out. Tracen had responded swiftly and ruthlessly, so ultimately he had relented on taking action himself, but the whole situation had left him on edge.

After the beach fiasco, the fan mail had doubled in intensity and though he might be old and a little out of touch with the most recent trends, he was still fairly certain that fan mail usually didn't come in scented envelopes. As it turned out, most of the letters hadn't been fan mail and his daughter was in fact more than just a little popular as she often liked to say.

So, here Suzuki Shigeru sat, turning over the latest love letter to his precious little girl in his hands. It was hard to tell with Shiro, but she hadn't really displayed any interest in boys, or at least he hadn't noticed any interest. Kat had also suggested that maybe their daughter's preferences lay in the other direction altogether.

Regardless, boy or girl, Shigeru was faced with the daunting realization that all girl dads must eventually face:

"Someone wants to date my daughter."

Even saying the words out loud made him feel... Oddly aggravated. Call it helicopter parenting or protective instincts, Shigeru found that he didn't really care much for the reason... These unknown, no-good, conniving nags would have to go through him first if they wanted to date his little girl!

 

[WrandmWaffles]

Haru Urara could probably have won some races, but that would be counterproductive for all parties involved so they didn't really try.

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Given that she was reported to often want to keep running around the track after the race, it's possible she actually had a better proficiency for long races, and her owner was deliberately putting in races she was less suited for to keep her reputation.

Plus, the idea that Shiro thinks Haru is better than she lets on is funny to me.

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She has to rationalize why the silly uma who doesn't seem to be that good at academics or racing got into a prestigious school. Most others umas her age wouldn't question it too much but Shirogane is a bit more suspicious of adults than most of her peers, so she'd wonder if Haru Urara has a very wealthy family or is related to yakuza.

If Mt Arata is from outside Japan, shouldn't she be worried about being chopped into steak tartare instead?

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She may be from outside Japan, but she was currently in Japan getting chased down.

Now a G1 race she'll probably be crushing is the Spring Tenno Sho, a 3200 meters long race. That one she has in the bag.

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She would probably have a harder time winning the 1999 Spring Tenno Sho because Special Week and Mejiro Bright are just that strong, both finishing within 1 second of the record previously set in 1997 by Mayano Top Gun.

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Yeah it will be quite contentious, since the Golden Generation has a few strong stayers, like Special Week and Seiun Sky, with Mejiro Bright being a very strong stayer as well. Grass Wonder is pretty good at distance too.

The Stayers Stakes is 3600m and might be renamed to the White Silver Stayers Stakes after Shiro is done.

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But yeah this is the race that Shiro would not have much competition for, especially since most of the stronger racers don't participate in it, at least in 1998. On the other hand, with Shirogane participating, some of her classmates might want a go at it at some point to try and beat her at her best race.

I have an image of Shiro running a damn car down to rescue her friend suck in my head.

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Shirogane's capacity for violence at speed remains yet unknown to most people at this time.

Deranged lunatics inspiring those crazy enough to do the unthinkable.

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One funny thing is that Shirogane might end up inspiring Vodka (uma Vodka would be around 5 years old at the time) to run for some of the Classic Races.

I'm just not sure why Shiro would even want to race internationally.

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She may get tapped to accompany some of the other runners that go abroad because of her skill set, as well as good language skills. She'd probably visit Poland to meet family, and maybe the government would want her to run a race as a diplomatic thing, but she doesn't have much incentive to run there long term.

if people learn from an interview she's got the Empress at her residence frequently being an excellent senpai even not as an official title people will be joking about the Imperial Scion.

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Given her friendship with both Air Groove and Mejiro Dober, both of whom won the Yushun Himba in their classic years, if she also wins the Yushun Himba there might be some jokes about nepotism, or more seriously a point about how having good mentors is helpful.

The Amezou rumors in 1998 had rattled Shirogane Orzel's owners much more than they publically let on. They were not blind, and it was hard to believe that the 16-hand-tall Omen would sire a foal on the 16-hand-tall Hokuto Venus, and end up with a foal as short as the 14.3-hand-tall Shirogane Orzel. Shirogane Orzel had passed all of the lineage tests, though, so what was there left to do?

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This is a pretty good way of explaining how horse Shirogane could have come about. An additional wrinkle could be that due to her size, she had been written off by the original farm and handed off to a different, smaller one that was struggling financially, so they gambled on what they hoped would be another Tamamo Cross. This would also separate the stable from fault by an additional degree, which gives the JRA more reason to do some adjustments quietly, because the new stable would have had no way possible way of knowing what had happened, while if it was the original stable there would be some potential room for doubt.

Though...with that kind of background, and some things that happen during her career, Shirogane might have ended up as an Umamusume protagonist in the alt reality. Doubly funny if it's an otome game where there are umamusuko as well as umamusume.

Hokuto Venus (JPN) by Maruzensky (JPN)

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Is there a particular reason you picked this mare to be her mother, aside from the color?

Monogramm (USA)

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Having that found out would probably actually increase her value as a broodmare for Arabian horses by quite a lot.

The results showed that Hokuto Venus was related to Shirogane Orzel as expected

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This would have been truly outrageous if she found not to be related to the mare she foaled out of.

I don´t think anyone would want such a legendary horse (bu that part of the story) to not be allowed to have foals, other lineages would kill to have those Terminator like, stamina genes in their lineage.

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She would likely be still sought after, but not by thoroughbreds. A couple of her offspring could theoretically run in some steeplechase races or some endurance races, but they would not be allowed in thoroughbred racing. Probably.

I do wonder how all of this would be translated to the Uma world... did shirogane mom cheated?

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I've basically represented this by her having two human parents instead of having an uma mom. It marks her as having an unusual parentage for a racer.

It just simply makes much more sense that any Uma of sufficient talent and backing would be able to race.

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And given part of the umamusume world is a sort of 'what if' a certain horse was allowed to run a certain race (Maruzensky, Seeking the Pearl) or what if a horse didn't get injured/die (Silence Suzuka), it would fit for umamusume Shirogane Orzel to have a storyline about not qualifing to run in the usual way.

I imagine Shiro will be quite an old horse by the time she retires, so she'll probably not have that many offspring. Which is fine actually, older Shiro being murderously protective of her only child is something that just fits for me; a normally well-behaved and intelligent horse who becomes unruly when you try and separate her from her kid, who eventually escapes her enclosure to go looking for her child once they get sold off to another owner. Hmm, maybe she won't be a popular broodmare after all, can you imagine the nightmare of trying to find and contain a horse that seems to be able to read and is feeling spiteful from having her child kidnapped.

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While Shirogane the horse would be a dedicated parent, she would also be smart enough to understand that her offspring are slated to be given racing jobs, so she'd try and train her offspring to be more prepared for their future careers, to the point where her handlers wouldn't have to wean her foals because she does it herself, and when they are put to training, the trainers find them already halfway trained.

Depending on the parentage though, her foals might be a lot more difficult to handle when isn't around.

Better yet, never mind the fact that she escaped her enclosure and seems to be completely evading local law enforcement, she's also somehow faster years into retirement than she ever was in her prime.

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They discover Shirogane's best surface is concrete, lol.

I can already imagine Shiro suddenly braking into a race just to run next to her kid the whole way through.

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Even funnier, horse Shirogane escapes her pen, steals some money, and tries to buy a ticket to see her foals run.

 

[SiegfriedisPower]

Even funnier, horse Shirogane escapes her pen, steals some money, and tries to buy a ticket to see her foals run.

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It's not stealing if she made that money herself.

 

[Miriallia]

It's not stealing if she made that money herself.

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She is indeed mearly collecting what is owed to her rightfully.

 

[FluffyVoid]

Even funnier, horse Shirogane escapes her pen, steals some money, and tries to buy a ticket to see her foals run.

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Well at least Shiro's Uma daughter will know that her mom supports her sporting career.

 

[Ethenion]

The John Mulaney "Horse loose in a hospital" story would be especially funny if it was Shirogane breaking out of her enclosure to check on her Trainer/Rider and demand more races.

 

[nervousone]

Well at least Shiro's Uma daughter will know that her mom supports her sporting career.

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Like she's going to miss her spawn winning the Sextuple crown /s

 

[The Castle of Jutland]

Huh, so Shirogane could found a club with Gentildonna for overprotective and proud horse/uma mothers?

 

[Stracio]

She would likely be still sought after, but not by thoroughbreds. A couple of her offspring could theoretically run in some steeplechase races or some endurance races, but they would not be allowed in thoroughbred racing. Probably.

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I looked this up, and as far as the UK is concerned, non-Thoroughbreds can race in Thoroughbred races as long as the horse in question is registered in a studbook.

The requirement to race is that the horse be registered in either
i) the GSB (which is for TBs), or one of it's sister studbooks world wide that is a member of the ISBC.
ii) Weatherbys' NON-THOROUGHBRED REGISTER.
iii) The AQPS register.

Obviously both ii) and iii) are

NOT

Thoroughbreds.

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The question is not whether non-Thoroughbreds should be allowed to race against TBs or not. It's "Why the hell would you want to pit a non-TB horse against a TB?" as a non-TB horse would be at a disadvantage in the format.

With that out of the way, Shirogane could become THE broodmare of modern Thoroughbred horseracing in this world as her genes would be sought after. After all, while a Thoroughbred's lineage can be traced to one of the three founding sirelines (Byerley Turk, Darley Arabian, Godolphin Barb), the mares they mated to start the Thoroughbred lines weren't Thoroughbreds.

If Shirogane's counterpart was a stallion instead, his line could eventually be treated as the modern founding sireline of Thoroughbreds. Also helps that Stallion!Shirogane is still related to Maruzensky.

Really the only issue is whether Shirogane is conceived naturally or not, as this is the only thing that would disqualify Shirogane from competing.

 

[FluffyVoid]

The question is not whether non-Thoroughbreds should be allowed to race against TBs or not. It's "Why the hell would you want to pit a non-TB horse against a TB?" as a non-TB horse would be at a disadvantage in the format.

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[Centergg]

Even funnier, horse Shirogane escapes her pen, steals some money, and tries to buy a ticket to see her foals run.

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Shiro places money on the counter with her mouth. Money is tightly packed in some paper.
In neat cursive on the paper :"No one is gonna believe you. Now, give me That ticket."

 

[JKD_666]

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Exactly this. In that particular negaverse, Shiro would've changed the entire horse racing scene forever. Her legacy would endure long after she was gone. Because everytime some anons start arguing and one talks about TB's superiority in racing, the other one would just bring up a photo of Shirogane.

 

[Rock1244]

Shirogane's capacity for violence at speed remains yet unknown to most people at this time.

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You previously wrote that the theoretical horse Shirogane stomped a bear to death—perhaps during a uma summer training camp. Could there have been a bear warning in the area that, for some reason, the camp didn't receive?
One of the hunters rushes to the director to warn of the danger in the area, and then they hear the panicked screams and see the students fleeing.
Then someone screams, "Where is Shiro?" The hunter runs over desperately hoping to save the innocent young Uma and finds her with the dead bear.

A week later, the restaurant receives a letter and a box from Shiro; she writes that the training camp was fun and that she has sent a souvenir from the camp. They open the box, and inside is a very fine bearskin rug.

 

[Tonyloco]

It's not stealing if she made that money herself.

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I can imagine the scene, since In japan they have few few ticket sellers most of them are machines, she would either have to slip by to get there or get someone to buy the tickets for the trip.

I can actually imagine her getting a kid to take her to the races, that would he hilarious since by now she would be famous enough to be recognized by fans.
And being smart enough to know which Trains or Subway to take to get there (I took me a few weeks to get used to it without using apps too much when i was there) would speak volumens about her smarts.

Hey Hiro we got a Horse in the Car +3.

Yeah don´t worry that´s Shirogane she´s going to the Tokyo Racecourse to watch her kid race, she should be back in the afternoon.

But man shouldn't we be worried about someone stealing, her?

Dude she's known for killing a bear that got into her farm once, no one is foolish enough to bother her.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Racecourse

 

[arky4444]

Is there a particular reason you picked this mare to be her mother, aside from the color?

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I wanted to find a gray mare that historically was having foals during the right timeframe while being owned by a not-so-great farm with a history of seeking foreign studs. Hokuto Venus fit the bill, and also had some coincidences that tickled my funny bone. RIP Hokuto Brave by Dancing Brave (USA), 0 wins/0 starts, butterflied away for my writing exercise.

Having that found out would probably actually increase her value as a broodmare for Arabian horses by quite a lot.

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Western Arabian organizations are just as snobby about their closed stud books as the Thoroughbred clubs.

This would have been truly outrageous if she found not to be related to the mare she foaled out of.

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Pedigree fraud via embryo implantation exists. I learned WAY TOO MUCH about Thoroughbred breeding shenanigans while researching for this bit.

 

[Pethrai D’arkos]

I can imagine the scene, since In japan they have few few ticket sellers most of them are machines, she would either have to slip by to get there or get someone to buy the tickets for the trip.

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Nah see, that's even better. Because now she just has to work the machine and there's no pesky humans who might refuse to sell a ticket to a horse.

Edit: eventually someone is going to have to review the security footage and watch this horse operate a card reader, and then store the ticket it spits out in clearly improvised saddlebags.

 

[Jomasten]

A week later, the restaurant receives a letter and a box from Shiro; she writes that the training camp was fun and that she has sent a souvenir from the camp. They open the box, and inside is a very fine bearskin rug.

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She also writes that bear meat is surprisingly pungent, but prepared right, actually tastes really good.

 

[arky4444]

Additionally, Kurifuji, an undefeated Thoroughbred racemare in the mid-1940s, is occasionally referred to as an unofficial Triple Crown winner, as she won the unusual combination of the Tōkyō Yūshun, Yūshun Himba and Kikuka-shō in 1943.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Crown_of_Thoroughbred_Racing_(Japan)

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What isn't mentioned here is that the Yushun Himba and Kikuka Sho were run at different dates back then, compared to now.

This article about Kurifuji (https://www.yushunweb.jp/story/story56/2450/) gives the specific dates that she ran for the three races:
6/6/1943 (same as now) - Tokyo Yushun
10/3/1943 (instead of mid-late May) - Yushun Himba
11/14/1943 (instead of late October) - Kikuka Sho

So while Kurifuji was strong, she wasn't running G1s back-to-back with no break when she ran the Derby and the Himba in the same year.

EDIT: People would absolutely be rooting for IRL Shirogane to win the Derby if she wins the Himba because they will want to see some semblance of the second coming of Kurifuji. Pulling it off within a week of each other is just the cherry on top. Unfortunately it most likely won't happen because of Special Week. Shirogane winning the Kikuka Sho later would just be rubbing salt in the wound for fans.

 

[drake_azathoth]

Nah see, that's even better. Because now she just has to work the machine and there's no pesky humans who might refuse to sell a ticket to a horse.

Edit: eventually someone is going to have to review the security footage and watch this horse operate a card reader, and then store the ticket it spits out in clearly improvised saddlebags.

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That would be perfect. Her trainers actually keep some money in a 'secured' display case near Shirogane's stall where she can see it because it keeps her calm. One day the money is stolen and there's a big furor as people try to find out who stole it, then they discover race tickets and the remainder of the money in her stall. The cameras show nothing. They initially conclude it's a prank.

The stable owner is upset about someone messing with the horses for a prank though, so they trace back the tickets to an automatic vendor near the stable, and manage to persuade a restaurant owner nearby to go over the exterior camera footage. Cue Shirogane on camera, who had somehow escaped her stall, bought tickets to her foal's race, and returned with none the wiser.

 

[The Castle of Jutland]

This is starting to sound more and more like saurfang facts* but in regards to intelligence rather than super violence.


* Also known as Chuck Norris facts for the less cultured.