Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

[Viterbi]

So, post-Pantheon player confirmed: The Smuggest Panopticon of Tattletopia.

 

[Tamoline]

Huh. Just realised something. In the two prominent pairbond cases - Amelia/Taylor and Minerva/Alexandria - after both formed/were forming, participants either broke away from existing allegiances to form their own powerbloc (Amelia, Lisa, Taylor) or were at least strongly tempted to (Alexandra). Granted in both cases there were *reasons*... but still. It's a coincidence. If a pairbond has formed/is forming between Chevalier and Vicky, will we see history repeat? We're already seeing some stress there between them and their leadership. Will the prophesied five factions be based about five pairbonds?

Edit - Scratch that. Presumably not, because Amelia and Taylor will end up on different sides. But still, the correlation is intriguing.

 

[Sheaman3773]

Holy fuck Taylor, bipolar much? Her actions here kind of disgust me.

It's like telling someone you love them, but if they piss you off you'll have them raped.

I don't think I like Taylor anymore.

Click to shrink...

It certainly felt excessive to me as well.

But I'm pretty sure she was saying "While you were one of us, the kind of shit you were pulling was tolerable, barely. Now that you're leaving? I'll treat it like it was any other hostile force screwing with my team. Don't make me do that."

Which is...better, and arguably necessary, given the level they operate at.

 

[Snake/Eater]

I have question.

Another classroom of the mind special

Snake/Eater talking while wearing a dunce hat:is Dragon and Deviant's relationship caused by pairbonding or is it just a normal relationship.

 

[dasstan]

Holy fuck Taylor, bipolar much? Her actions here kind of disgust me.

It's like telling someone you love them, but if they piss you off you'll have them raped.

I don't think I like Taylor anymore.

Click to shrink...

Fortunately for you, that isn't Taylor.

is Dragon and Deviant's relationship caused by pairbonding or is it just a normal relationship.

Click to shrink...

I don't think there is a power interaction cross over between them. All the pairs we've seen have a thinker aspect, and neither Defiant nor Dragon have thinker powers. Dragon can emulate them by virtue of never sleeping/having a computerized memory etc, but that's pure technology, not spacewhale related.

 

[Peanuckle]

I didn't get any of the hostility some people are feeling. Lisa's leaving, but set them up with an acceptable replacement. She doesn't have any plans to stab Pantheon in the back. It seems to me like it was as good of a split as possible.

 

[Deathwings]

Holy fuck Taylor, bipolar much? Her actions here kind of disgust me.

It's like telling someone you love them, but if they piss you off you'll have them raped.

I don't think I like Taylor anymore.

Click to shrink...

That's called being professional. What Taylor told Lisa is that yes, she does love her, but now that Lisa has actively gone out her way to cut ties (IRONY) she no longer get special treatment.

Considering Lisa's behavior while she was on the team, that's fully warranted.

Seriously, the way some of you guys keep going as if Lisa was the Ultimate Victim Wooby is starting to look downright delusional.

 

[CptTagon]

expect I might

Click to shrink...

you

Is not

Click to shrink...

Is

I do hope Lisa and Taylor stay in touch. I always liked how close the two of them were in canon.

 

[Snake/Eater]

She waited, watching, letting me know that the choice was mine and she'd support me either way. But I'd already made my decision, it was no longer my job to protect them. I reached out and took Rebecca's hand, then we moved through the gateway.

Click to shrink...

For this Chapter i'm posting Shannon Saunders's "Atlas"

Spoiler: Atlas

 

[Ack]

Uh ... in that meeting, did everyone know that Alexandria was Rebecca Costa-Brown? Such as, well, Dragon ... and Defiant? And the members of Pantheon present?

Because this:

Hey, Rebecca, I know it's short notice but do you think you can give me a lift?"

Click to shrink...

would have outed her if they didn't.

 

[oneeyedpike]

Lisa pretty much sabotaged the team to the point where Taylia would have to fire her, because she couldn't just sit down and talk about her problems. She deserves whatever shit she gets.

Lisa's sort of really annoyed me, because it seems she's keeping on buying into her own hype that she's the smartest person in the room and all her ideas are great even after knowing what that results in. Taylor's thoughts about her relationship with Lisa being inequal because of the suicide thing is honestly seeming less paranoid, because Lisa seems to be hitting all the buttons of not actually respecting Taylors ability to make decisions or basically anyone besides Alexandria because she's another thinker.

 

[Snake/Eater]

What happens if Gemini combined Taylor, Coil and Dinah's thinker powers?

 

[Tamoline]

I didn't get any of the hostility some people are feeling. Lisa's leaving, but set them up with an acceptable replacement. She doesn't have any plans to stab Pantheon in the back. It seems to me like it was as good of a split as possible.

Click to shrink...

As good a split as possible would have been Lisa saying, "You know guys, I just can't keep working here. Here's an orderly plan to select a successor - I suggest Dragon - and here's a reasonable timetable in which I can bring them up to speed before leaving." The fact that Lisa didn't think she could stand up to Taylor's pleading to not go is on Lisa, not anyone else. This isn't just a gang of friends, this is the government of a planet, and Lisa screwed the pooch for everyone, not just herself.

A few highlights:
Dramatically worsened for no good reason their relationship with the PRT, a major power that could still potentially take Pantheon down.

Exacerberated tensions within the group, leading to some members leaving.

Betrayed the trust that, as a Thinker, everyone in Pantheon and who *dealt* with Pantheon had to extend to Lisa - the fact that she might have learned their personal and political secrets just by dealing with her. Presumably that's been kept in check by the fact that they thought they could trust Pantheon, but, hey, Lisa's just proven that she's willing to screw the group she's part of at the drop of a hat, including someone everyone thought was her best friend. How can *anyone* trust that anything she's learned is going to remain secret now.

And if they don't go through everything she's ever touched with a fine tooth comb, then they're being overly generous and naive. Like I said in a previous post, I don't exactly think Lisa's leaving Pantheon to do nothing, so finding out if she's siphoned off funds and/or left any organisational timebombs is something they'd better do *now* rather than later. What a pity that she chose to do this *now* when they can't afford to spend the time worrying about this kind of thing instead of the next Endbringer attack. I don't think *that's* a coincidence, either.

I don't hate Lisa - I kind of actually like her - but Pantheon really should view her as neutral to them. At *best*. And I can definitely see the point of view of anyone in or allied to Pantheon who would view in a less than favourable light.

 

[B.B. Rain]

Sooo...Awkward question, but what's going to be done with the setup for Lisa's back-up that Pantheon still has?

 

[dasstan]

What happens if Gemini combined Taylor, Coil and Dinah's thinker powers?

Click to shrink...

Nothing, cause Gemini can only do two powers at once. Would be interesting to see if Gemini can get around that little tidbit by using Chevalier to combine two parahumans into one, and then copying the gestalt being...

You'd have to combine Taylor with Dinah, though, since combining either of those two with Coil runs the risk of either undoing the brainworm, adding the brainworm to whoever is merged with Coil, or forcing Dinah to experience brain merger with the guy that addicted her to drugs and kept her locked in the basement. Taylor could handle it the squick, though.

Dramatically worsened for no good reason their relationship with the PRT, a major power that could still potentially take Pantheon down.

Click to shrink...

That last bit is just patently false. Not only because it would take the United States declaring war against Avalon to do it, but because the PRT does not have the resources to go against Pantheon. The closest thing they have to level the field is the very same suits Pantheon made for them. The ones that Taylor can casually override if she needs to.

Presumably that's been kept in check by the fact that they thought they could trust Pantheon, but, hey, Lisa's just proven that she's willing to screw the group she's part of at the drop of a hat, including someone everyone thought was her best friend. How can *anyone* trust that anything she's learned is going to remain secret now.

Click to shrink...

Lisa has been thinking about this for a long time. This is hardly a decision she came to after waking up one day. Besides, the worlds at large are not going to be aware that Lisa has manipulated Pantheon. A select few are aware that Lisa created a situation where firing her was the only possible outcome, but you can be sure that the spin machine is going to come out with something that sounds favorable towards all parties. "Pantheon has outgrown the scope of Minerva's abilities, so she has decided to move into the role of a consultant."

And if they don't go through everything she's ever touched with a fine tooth comb, then they're being overly generous and naive. Like I said in a previous post, I don't exactly think Lisa's leaving Pantheon to do nothing, so finding out if she's siphoned off funds and/or left any organisational timebombs is something they'd better do *now* rather than later. What a pity that she chose to do this *now* when they can't afford to spend the time worrying about this kind of thing instead of the next Endbringer attack. I don't think *that's* a coincidence, either.

Click to shrink...

Nothing we've seen suggests that Lisa is going to sabotage the organization in the long run. She knows that Scion is the goal. Pantheon provides one of the only potential ways of fighting him.

As to the emboldened: Of course it isn't a coincidence. She set it up so they'd have to fire her. No extra time to look over things, or think up a way to talk her around. Making sure they have more important things to worry about is part of that.

I don't hate Lisa - I kind of actually like her - but Pantheon really should view her as neutral to them. At *best*. And I can definitely see the point of view of anyone in or allied to Pantheon who would view in a less than favourable light.

Click to shrink...

If only that point has been brought up in the chapter...

Good, she's alert to the possibility that I won't necessarily be working in their best interests in the future. That's something they need to be aware of.

Click to shrink...

 

[Divabot]

I'm an AI researcher

Click to shrink...

Do tell - which variety? (Real AI work, or hypothetical AI work?)

 

[Snake/Eater]

We need a "Let it go" omake staring Lisa,Taylor and Dragon with a cameo of Taylia like this Parody....

 

[Tamoline]

The PRT being a major power

Click to shrink...

That last bit is just patently false. Not only because it would take the United States declaring war against Avalon to do it, but because the PRT does not have the resources to go against Pantheon. The closest thing they have to level the field is the very same suits Pantheon made for them. The ones that Taylor can casually override if she needs to.

Click to shrink...

Possibly not by direct action. But just getting to the point of conflict with the PRT/US would stress the loyalties of a lot of Pantheon's capes, quite possibly to the point of breaking, quite possibly to the point of destroying Pantheon. Sure Riley would stick with whatever Amelia decided to do, and Taylor too, probably. But the rest? Uncertain, very uncertain if it came down to it.

And, again, as far as we (and the rest of Pantheon) know, this deterioration of the relationship between the PRT and Pantheon is pointless, barring Lisa's internal psychodrama. (Lisa almost undoubtedly *did* have another motive for this, but as she took pains to remind everyone, her motives in this as in everything else she's done since she decided to leave Pantheon cannot be assumed to be in Pantheon's best interests.

Lisa has been thinking about this for a long time. This is hardly a decision she came to after waking up one day. Besides, the worlds at large are not going to be aware that Lisa has manipulated Pantheon. A select few are aware that Lisa created a situation where firing her was the only possible outcome, but you can be sure that the spin machine is going to come out with something that sounds favorable towards all parties. "Pantheon has outgrown the scope of Minerva's abilities, so she has decided to move into the role of a consultant."

Click to shrink...

You are being a *lot* more generous with this than I am. Yes, Lisa has undoubtedly spent a long time thinking this over. She still chose to fuck Pantheon over for her own emotional needs rather than deal with this professionally. And, again, as she reminded everyone, she can no longer be counted on to act in Pantheon's best interests, and they (and we) can't know how far back she decided that would be the case. And if you think that this shitstorm is going to remain private- well, just remember that her plan was to make a public mess so they'd be forced to fire her. Maybe no one in the room will say what happened. Maybe no one they tell will tell anyone else. But Crystal's team are going to want to know why the hell they got dropped into a situation in which at least one of them died and Lisa's pretty much going to have to be the scapegoat for that, and that's far too many people at that point. Not to mention all the other thinkers other powers have aimed at Pantheon.

If at least the bare bones of what happened doesn't get out, then it sure as hell isn't because Lisa tried too hard to stop that from happening. That was pretty much her plan, after all.

Nothing we've seen suggests that Lisa is going to sabotage the organization in the long run. She knows that Scion is the goal. Pantheon provides one of the only potential ways of fighting him.

Click to shrink...

Nothing we've seen says that she cares overly much about what happens to Pantheon from now on. I mean, telling them that their dimensional defences aren't as strong as they think costs her literally nothing, but she's not going to do it anyway. And, presumably, doesn't care how many lives are lost when and if Cauldron or someone else takes advantage of those weaknesses. Note that - depending on whether Pantheon has offsite backups of personality data - this could easily mean perma-death for members of Pantheon.

And Lisa demonstrably gives not one shit.

As to the emboldened: Of course it isn't a coincidence. She set it up so they'd have to fire her. No extra time to look over things, or think up a way to talk her around. Making sure they have more important things to worry about is part of that.

Click to shrink...

And, y'know, also being the time when they can least afford any distribution to the workflow in the prep for the next Endbringer. Yes, it's more convenient for Lisa. Such a pity that said convenience could easily cost lives.

 

[Viterbi]

Do tell - which variety? (Real AI work, or hypothetical AI work?)

Click to shrink...

Mainly academic stuff. Mid-future; not yet directly applicable, but also not pie-in-the-sky. Current state of the technology is about where autonomous vehicles were around the time of the DARPA Grand Challenge. So generally fun stuff.

 

[dasstan]

Possibly not by direct action. But just getting to the point of conflict with the PRT/US would stress the loyalties of a lot of Pantheon's capes, quite possibly to the point of breaking, quite possibly to the point of destroying Pantheon. Sure Riley would stick with whatever Amelia decided to do, and Taylor too, probably. But the rest? Uncertain, very uncertain if it came down to it.

And, again, as far as we (and the rest of Pantheon) know, this deterioration of the relationship between the PRT and Pantheon, barring Lisa's internal psychodrama. (Lisa almost undoubtedly *did* have another motive for this, but as she took pains to remind everyone, her motives in this as in everything else she's done since she decided to leave Pantheon cannot be assumed to be in Pantheon's best interests.

Click to shrink...

You're assuming that a few minor disagreements between the PRT and Pantheon is enough to cause sufficient fall-out between the groups. It's...really not. Especially not for an up-and-coming international power. It's politics, plain and simple. Pantheon is the new hot shit, the occasional moment when they run roughshod over the PRT is the growing pains of a world power.

You're also equating the PRT with the entirety of the US. A lot, if not most, of Pantheon's membership comes from Rogues or reformed villains. If this were enough to cause a break between the two organizations, I think most of the members would go "Never did like them much, anyway," and continue business as usual. As for the government of the United States in general, they are dependent on Pantheon for portals. So long as that remains true, Pantheon can get away with a lot.

Now as to Lisa not having Pantheon's best interests in mind... I don't disagree that it could be a problem, but I also don't think that you're thinking her motivation all the way through. Actively sabotaging Pantheon is stupid. Lisa knows it's stupid. Lisa knows that the work Pantheon is doing is one of the best hopes for defeating Scion. I think that Lisa would make good choices, but not the best possible choices, thus making a mess while still advancing Pantheon's agenda.

You are being a *lot* more generous with this than I am. Yes, Lisa has undoubtedly spent a long time thinking this over. She still chose to fuck Pantheon over for her own emotional needs rather than deal with this professionally. And, again, as she reminded everyone, she can no longer be counted on to act in Pantheon's best interests, and they (and we) can't know how far back she decided that would be the case. And if you think that this shitstorm is going to remain private- well, just remember that her plan was to make a public mess so they'd be forced to fire her. Maybe no one in the room will say what happened. Maybe no one they tell will tell anyone else. But Crystal's team are going to want to know why the hell they got dropped into a situation in which at least one of them died and Lisa's pretty much going to have to be the scapegoat for that, and that's far too many people at that point. Not to mention all the other thinkers other powers have aimed at Pantheon.

If at least the bare bones of what happened doesn't get out, then it sure as hell isn't because Lisa tried too hard to stop that from happening. That was pretty much her plan, after all.

Click to shrink...

We see public governmental and company fuck ups all the time. Very rarely do we ever find out the full extent of a fuckup. The upper echelon of Pantheon will know what happened. The lower echelon will get something along the lines of "Lisa fucked up, and Dragon can do a better job. We let Lisa go." The public will get a 'different visions of the future' and 'parted on good terms' and 'look forward to working together in the future' and 'we wish Minerva the best in whatever she chooses to do' and 'Minerva is still dedicated to seeing the last of the Endbringers.'

It's the nature of PR. The public won't know the truth unless someone in-the-know actively leaks it. And it's the nature of backroom deals that the only people that will know the whole truth will be known to one another. If the whole truth comes out, it will be because Taylia or Lisecca want it known... And I'll doubt they'll want it known because it will undermine both Pantheon, and wherever Lisa goes on to work. Unless she goes on to work with Cauldron, since they're secret.

As to the thinkers... Power Interactions make them rather unreliable. Most of the players involved have power interactions.

Nothing we've seen says that she cares overly much about what happens to Pantheon from now on. I mean, telling them that their dimensional defences aren't as strong as they think costs her literally nothing, but she's not going to do it anyway. And, presumably, doesn't care how many lives are lost when and if Cauldron or someone else takes advantage of those weaknesses. Note that - depending on whether Pantheon has offsite backups of personality data - this could easily mean perma-death for members of Pantheon.

And Lisa demonstrably gives not one shit.

Click to shrink...

It costs her a resource. Informing them about the anti-Doormaker defenses not working means that she loses an easy means of gathering information, as well as emergency transport if she ever needs it. Besides, Pantheon has an entire other planet. If they don't have backups for their backups, they're kind of asking for it.

And unlike your next point, doing this actually does take away from the Endbringer Prep. They'd have to take the tinkers off whatever it is they are doing and direct them to improve/reinvent better dimensional tech.

I'm not saying it's a nice move on her part, but she also has to think about her own future.

And, y'know, also being the time when they can least afford any distribution to the workflow in the prep for the next Endbringer. Yes, it's more convenient for Lisa. Such a pity that said convenience could easily cost lives.

Click to shrink...

It's not like they have to take anyone off the Endbringer duties to look into past decisions? The tinkers continue tinkering, the Zerg will be grown. Lisa being there or not being there has no impact on the prep.

 

[Daunmi]

Edit - Scratch that. Presumably not, because Amelia and Taylor will end up on different sides. But still, the correlation is intriguing.

Click to shrink...

We don't actually know it that end game situation is even still in play. We've been told that the Taylia link has been messing with every precog, including Dinah, and now we're throwing another one at them. So you could be right.

 

[Tamoline]

Honestly, I don't think that anything Lisa's done is crippling, or deserving of death or mental tampering or whatever. But I do think she abused her position and the trust vested in her to get herself out of a place she volunteered for, and she made sure that Pantheon paid the - entirely avoidable - costs for it. Sure, each of the things I listed above probably isn't that big - though I'd be somewhat surprised if the weakness in dimensional defences doesn't come back to bite Pantheon at some point - but each of them also had a cost, whether in political capital or internal morale. And Lisa inflicted those costs with forethought.

Not that I don't sympathise with where she's coming from, of course. Or at least where I think she's coming from - like I've said, it's really hard to know her actual gameplan at the moment.

 

[Snake/Eater]

I can't Believe nobody noticed that Lisa and Alexandria held Hands....

 

[Swingline#57]

I didn't get any of the hostility some people are feeling. Lisa's leaving, but set them up with an acceptable replacement. She doesn't have any plans to stab Pantheon in the back. It seems to me like it was as good of a split as possible.

Click to shrink...

She already has. Repeatedly.

 

[cosoco]

defaut

Click to shrink...

default

Collin

Click to shrink...

Colin

but a defense nonetheless"

Click to shrink...

but a defense nonetheless."

Allow her join fully with

Click to shrink...

Allow her to join fully with

Khepri pressed on. "And you knew that going in. But more important to you than your life, I think, there was your reputation. You arranged to leak your breakdown after Leviathan to the press. You guaranteed your name would be synonymous with corruption and insanity. Treason, even."

Click to shrink...

I'm having trouble thinking of what Khepri is talking about. Wasn't it Behemoth and Simurgh? Or am I thinking of a different incident?

 

[Prince Charon]

Sooo...Awkward question, but what's going to be done with the setup for Lisa's back-up that Pantheon still has?

Click to shrink...

I suspect we won't find out until it becomes relevant in-story (e.g., if Alexandria survives an assassination attempt that Lisa doesn't).

As for Lisa's behavior, I would be more likely to blame her if I considered her fully sane. Under the circumstances, I don't think she qualifies, but then, she's hardly the only one. She wasn't even the most dangerous crazy person in Pantheon (that would be Amelia, though Taylor is a close second).

 

[Jurily]

Time to wake up a Lisa clone!

 

[TanaNari]

I can't Believe nobody noticed that Lisa and Alexandria held Hands....

Click to shrink...

Much fanservice. No appreciation. I gave my readers everything they've been anticipating for weeks... but I ruined it at the same time.

Truly, I have learned to Worm.

I'm having trouble thinking of what Khepri is talking about.

Click to shrink...

Canon. Leviathan. In Amelia, the revealing of Armsmaster's rant.

 

[Jurily]

Truly, I have learned to Worm.

Click to shrink...

Close, but not quite yet. You still need to live up to the whole voluntary brain surgery right next to the Simurgh thing.

May I suggest CelestAI!Dragon?

 

[SirKaid]

Is it just me, or is Lisa leaving the weakness in the dimensional defences around in case someone needs to kill Pantheon? I mean, I would make the same argument toward being cautious about them as I would about being cautious of Dragon Unchained - they're too dangerous to be totally unchecked.