Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic

[OverReactionGuy]

Some people are calling for Michigan to be closed again, and my city is apparently the epicenter...again. Something about our covid is very high or something.

Got my vaccine shot yesterday. The first one.

Symptoms for the first shot include a sore arm that only hurts when you move it, a sinus headache, tiredness and dry mouth.

The second shot is probably going to kick my ass.

 

[Aleh]

Some people are calling for Michigan to be closed again, and my city is apparently the epicenter...again. Something about our covid is very high or something.

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Courtesy of CovidActNow.org, here is a chart of Michigan's COVID rates over time:

Spoiler: Image

"Very high" is a bit of an understatement -- the virus is spreading uncontrolled there. Makes me wonder what changed in late February.

Here is a map of the country, based on a color-coded breakdown of COVID rates:

Spoiler: A big-ass Map

As you can see, the situation in Michigan is... pretty bad. Yeah, there's that bit of Northern Texas (and parts of Alaska), but those tend to be the most rural counties; the current record-holder for cases per 100k of population is Yakutat, Alaska... whose stunning rate of 1,505.1 cases per 100k of population is caused by a grand total of nine people getting the virus (out, apparently, 598). That dark splotch in Texas is generally similar.

Michigan, however, is a massive clusterfuck.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

"Very high" is a bit of an understatement -- the virus is spreading uncontrolled there. Makes me wonder what changed in late February.

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I can tell you from personal experience.

People are being lazy jackasses.

When I was out to get my vaccine saw multiple people not even wear their mask right until they were made to fix it.

-edit-

I mean seriously, it's not rocket science that your mask is supposed to cover your damn nose.

 

[Highlord]

I mean seriously, it's not rocket science that your mask is supposed to cover your damn nose.

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You dealing with hordes of drooling idiots whos grasp of public health begins and ends with "DON'T TRED ON ME MUH FREEDUMBS." So yes, for them it is rocket science, and brain surgery at the same time. Both of which are completely beyond the capabilities of the smooth, pebble-sized brains that constantly tells them "Uhhhh, edecated folk seys mask gud so mask really bad bekuz muh flag phplbbbt no ELITE gets to tell ME what to DO!"

I live with one of these fucking morons, so I know exactly how their "minds" work, and what you're dealing with.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Got the first Pfizer shot. No side effects thus far, once I get the second shot I hope I can quell some of my paranoia because paranoia is hard to live with.

 

[evildice]

 

[MadGreenSon]

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Strangely, I've lost weight because I'm cooking more and eating out less and I tend to cook leaner and more healthy.

 

[Aleh]

Today in massive assholes, I submit this guy.

To quote:

Days before the outbreak at the company where he worked, the 40-year-old displayed Covid-19 symptoms but refused to go home despite colleagues suggesting this, according to police.

Showing no improvement after work, he went for a PCR test before visiting a gym and returning to work the next day.

Although his bosses told him to go home after he allegedly showed a temperature of 40C, the man refused.

He walked around his workplace, lowering his face mask and coughing on colleagues, telling them: "I'm going to infect you all with the coronavirus", according to police.

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He, of course, came out positive. Five of his co-workers (and three of their family members) apparently caught COVID as a direct result of his actions. Three more people caught it at the gym.

As of last I heard, he was released pending trial.

 

[bryanfran36]

The Philippines just surpassed the 1 million mark in total cases today.

I don't know what to feel.

 

[MadGreenSon]

The Philippines just surpassed the 1 million mark in total cases today.

I don't know what to feel.

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It's a bad feeling, yes.

 

[bryanfran36]

It's a bad feeling, yes.

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Yeah.

Sure, about 925,000 recovered... But damn we had to reach that milestone.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Yeah.

Sure, about 925,000 recovered... But damn we had to reach that milestone.

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From what I understand, there's also been difficulty with a vaccine rollout there too?

 

[bryanfran36]

From what I understand, there's also been difficulty with a vaccine rollout there too?

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Yes, we don't have sufficient storage space and infrastructure throughout the country to ensure speedy and smooth rollout of vaccines.

Everything needed is concentrated in Manila, a weakness that's been biting us in the ass.

Factories? Manila.

Important government institutions and bureaucracy to do important paperwork? Manila. (You're shit out of luck if you're in a regional province)

Supply centres and trade hubs? Manila. Hells, even Cebu and Davao need their trade flow come from Manila before reaching other provinces like where I am.

 

[Aleh]

Meanwhile, Miami is host to one of the most blatantly antivax schools I've ever heard of -- one that recently made headlines by... well...

Here's the NYT headline: "A private school in Miami, citing false claims, bars vaccinated teachers from contact with students."

Or The Hill: "Miami private school, citing false claims, tells vaccinated teachers they can't be around students."

To lightly paraphrase, "It is our policy, to the extent possible, not to employ anyone who has taken the experimental COVID-19 injection until further information is known," about whether or not, among other things, whether or not vaccinated people "may be transmitting something from their bodies" that "impact[s] unvaccinated individuals."

Their claims are ridiculous. E.g.: "Tens of thousands of women all over the world have recently been reporting adverse reproductive issues from being in close proximity with those who have received any one of the COVID-19 injections."

This is technically legal: Centner Academy is a private school, and Florida is an "at-will" state.

When CBS requested an interview, Centner Academy simply sent an e-mail back. Said letter stated: "We're doing what we think is in the best interest of the children because children shouldn't be around teachers who are vaccinated."

While it may be technically legal, the teachers' unions are predictably unhappy. For instance, here's United Teachers of Dade on the subject:

While Florida State Senator Manny Diaz, Jr. takes a lap over defunding public education, we find it appalling that Florida has once again made national headlines for the lack of accountability these for-profit owners enjoy when using our taxpayer dollars.

As shamefully seen by the actions of the illegally run and uncertified Centner Academy, these schools not only teach misinformation and peddle propaganda, they punish teachers who try to protect themselves and their families. We are horrified by the unsafe conditions and labor violations that colleagues at schools such as this one have to endure due to lack of union representation and contract rights...

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Of course, Centner's website contradicts this claim, citing certification and accreditation from multiple relevant authorities.

Here's a letter they sent out to parents, just in case you think I'm making their woo-woo approach to things up or exaggerating. Twitter has, unfortunately, removed the copy I had of the letter to employees.

Further coverage is available from the Miami Herald, Washington Post, NBC Miami, Yahoo News, the Portland Press Herald, WRAL Raleigh, the Huffington Post, Science Magazine, Insider, and a host more places if you use Google.

At some point, I might do a bit of a deep dive on their site. The place is... impressive... and not in a good way.

Edit: Okay. I keep editing over a formatting issue. I keep trying word censors and the like, but can't get the parser to correctly interpret that bit as a literal string, and Google isn't helping. I'll ask about on IRC later when people are actually on.

Edit 2: Okay. Finally figured it out. Redone using the Plain and /Plain tags. This was a massive PITA.

 

[AllyDoodle]

Whelp while Western Australia isn't in lockdown anymore, we still have to wear masks until next Saturday at least.

Fuuuuuun.

 

[alethiophile]

How long do COVID antibodies last?

When I got screened to participate in a vaccine study, the doctors told me all of mine would have been gone in less than two months, and the mRNA vaccine was supposed to do a time-release specifically to increase the duration of the immune system's defenses.

Like, they don't check if you've ever had it, they can only check if you currently have it because its markers disappear from your system too quickly.

It's not like chicken pox.

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Antibody levels aren't identical to degree of immune protection -- the immune system has a memory, even once the antibodies have all gone the body can create them quickly again if it sees covid viruses. So you can't tell how long the acquired immunity lasts by doing an antibody test.

I don't think there are any great studies about how long covid immunity (either vaccine-derived or natural) lasts. Currently it seems plausible that the vaccines are slightly more effective than natural infection, but natural infection is still very effective. Generally speaking, if someone has already had covid then there's no pressing requirement that they get a vaccine (though it might be a good idea).

 

[Pez]

Family friend received his second vaccine shot a little over month ago. Last week, he tested positive. I don't know which brand, but it must have been Moderna or Pfizer. I believe he qualifies as immune system compromised, but still... Real shame that, even with the vaccine, you can still get it.

 

[Blacksoul]

Family friend received his second vaccine shot a little over month ago. Last week, he tested positive. I don't know which brand, but it must have been Moderna or Pfizer. I believe he qualifies as immune system compromised, but still... Real shame that, even with the vaccine, you can still get it.

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There is never a 100% effective vaccine, but unless this is one of the fringe cases that have a bad reaction that family friend has much better odds of not suffering the more severe effects of covid now.

 

[litaispe]

Even for non-immune system compromised individuals, the various COVID-19 vaccine actual efficiency is vastly lower than what people are used to. Worse, the effective immunization rate needed for herd immunity is bloody high to.

 

[Aleh]

Even for non-immune system compromised individuals, the various COVID-19 vaccine actual efficiency is vastly lower than what people are used to. Worse, the effective immunization rate needed for herd immunity is bloody high to.

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*Cough* No. Sorry, but this is flat-out wrong.

 

[rocket501]

Even for non-immune system compromised individuals, the various COVID-19 vaccine actual efficiency is vastly lower than what people are used to. Worse, the effective immunization rate needed for herd immunity is bloody high to.

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On average, the flu vaccine is 40-60% effective. The Johnson and Johnson vaccine is over 65% effective in preventing COVID and the Moderna and Pfizer are both over 90%. This is amazingly effective. However, even the less-effective vaccines still will generally mean that if you do get COVID, the symptoms are much less severe and you have a lower odds of even having to go to the hospital and vastly lower risk of death as well. Even 90%+ is not 100%, so still take some precautions especially when in public. I'd continue wearing my mask (partly to set a good example) and maintain some distancing and not over expose myself until community spread starts to die down.

 

[MadGreenSon]

On average, the flu vaccine is 40-60% effective. The Johnson and Johnson vaccine is over 65% effective in preventing COVID and the Moderna and Pfizer are both over 90%. This is amazingly effective. However, even the less-effective vaccines still will generally mean that if you do get COVID, the symptons are much less sever and you have a lower odds of even having to go to the hospital and vastly lower risk of death as well.

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Sounds good to me. I mean sure, I'd prefer total immunity, but I'm old enough and ex-smoker enough to have serious fucking anxiety about the idea of getting it. Been living under serious paranoia protocols for a year now.

 

[Eisen]

Well, as they say. Prevention is better than damage control. Less headaches to worry about later.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

Even for non-immune system compromised individuals, the various COVID-19 vaccine actual efficiency is vastly lower than what people are used to. Worse, the effective immunization rate needed for herd immunity is bloody high to.

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I'm going to repeat what I said last time this came up.

If you are going to make claims like this take your time to ensure that they are accurate, and that you are not baiting Rule 8 topics. Reporting facts about what is happening is one thing, if those facts are accurate, and speculating as to political motives is another. Kindly do not do the latter.

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Since you're not politics baiting I won't be kicking you out just for this much, but this is a topic that needs to be treated seriously and idle claims such as this one will be met with a very high level of scrutiny.

 

[litaispe]

*Cough* No. Sorry, but this is flat-out wrong.

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For most people; vaccines are given during childhood and then basically never again beyond rare booster shots or before international travelling.

Society has essentially spent many decades, to beat into people to ignore influenza as a serious disease. The "flu jab" is often never talked in terms of vaccination, and absolutely never pushed like a mass vaccination program actually would be.

On average, the flu vaccine is 40-60% effective.

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The influenza mutates heavily, and the medical profession essentially need to guess which strain is going to be dominant via genome sequencing a head of time. A huge limiter on influenza vaccine efficiency is the the vaccine targeting the right strain(s)!

Since you're not politics baiting I won't be kicking you out just for this much, but this is a topic that needs to be treated seriously and idle claims such as this one will be met with a very high level of scrutiny.

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I'll definitely attempt to be clear in the future.

The WHO only lists influenza as seasonal in the fact-sheet sidebar; https://www.who.int/health-topics/vaccines-and-immunization

Measles, mumps, rubella, varicella (aka chicken pox aka shingles), HPV are all essentially near-life-time immunity without reoccurring jabs.

Yes, there are a number of vaccines which often only provide immunity for a few years, but often these only matter when travelling internationally.

As for my statement for the effective immunization rate; COVID-19 is a highly infectious coronavirus. Immunity to most coronaviruses only last a few years at most, and as such COVID-19 immunity is very unlikely to last a life-time.

This means not just vaccination large number of people, but accepting society is going to need to keep vaccinating a large number of people for a very long time to come.

 

[Aleh]

For most people; vaccines are given during childhood and then basically never again beyond rare booster shots or before international travelling.

Society has essentially spent many decades, to beat into people to ignore influenza as a serious disease. The "flu jab" is often never talked in terms of vaccination, and absolutely never pushed like a mass vaccination program actually would be.

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TDaP requires a booster once per decade. More importantly, this isn't what you argued:

Even for non-immune system compromised individuals, the various COVID-19 vaccine actual efficiency is vastly lower than what people are used to. Worse, the effective immunization rate needed for herd immunity is bloody high to.

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Now, efficacy, effectiveness, and efficiency are all words with highly-specific meanings in medicine. You're not exactly speaking with the sort of technical precision I'd expect from, say, a doctor, so I couldn't be sure exactly what you meant... but the COVID vaccines are not appreciably less effective, less efficacious, or less efficient than most vaccines in common use.

Given the overall costs of COVID, including in medical expenses from things like hospitalization, the COVID vaccines are actually a lot more efficient than just about any of the others in common use.

Measles, mumps, rubella, varicella (aka chicken pox aka shingles), HPV are all essentially near-life-time immunity without reoccurring jabs.

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Measles, mumps, and varicella are from the same family of viruses. Rubella is famous for acting like one of them (hence its nickname of "German measles").

Yes, there are a number of vaccines which often only provide immunity for a few years, but often these only matter when travelling internationally.

As for my statement for the effective immunization rate; COVID-19 is a highly infectious coronavirus. Immunity to most coronaviruses only last a few years at most, and as such COVID-19 immunity is very unlikely to last a life-time.

This means not just vaccination large number of people, but accepting society is going to need to keep vaccinating a large number of people for a very long time to come.

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This bit is basically assuming things that are not in evidence. COVID itself has only been around for a bit under a year and a half, and has only been taken seriously (for the current value of "seriously") for the last year. The vaccines have been around for considerably less time, even as investigational candidates. Your initial statement was phrased as a statement of fact about the vaccine's usefulness.

It's true that we need to be prepared for the possibility of the vaccine-induced immunity fading. That is, however, all we need to be prepared for: Even the first, experimental injections have yet to fade.

 

[OverMaster]

I might have the bug now. Hard to say since I had to soak myself with icy rain two days in the way to the job, so it might just be a very bad cold, it's happened to me before. But I feel awful, with chills all over, a runny nose, back and head aches, and fever.

Just in case, it's been nice. Thanks for everything.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

I might have the bug now. Hard to say since I had to soak myself with icy rain two days in the way to the job, so it might just be a very bad cold, it's happened to me before. But I feel awful, with chills all over, a runny nose, back and head aches, and fever.

Just in case, it's been nice. Thanks for everything.

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Take care of yourself as much as you can.


Generic advice (ignore as appropriate):

Contact a doctor if at all possible for advice. If you have someone who can help you out (getting shopping/supplies), maybe considering asking. Drink fluids and rest. Apparently medication for fevers can help with your fever, maybe try that if available.

 

[Amazon Climber]

Got my second vaccine yesterday. So far, the only side effect is pain in my arm that I'm probably exacerbating by typing, but what else am I suooozed to do at 6 in the morning when I can't sleep because my arm keeps waking me up?

Good luck to everyone still waiting on theirs.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

Is it possible to get covid over the phone? I know it isn't but damn just got a wrong number.

Dude sounded like he was on his deaths door and kept saying he remembers the church and he will be there this sunday or something since he missed an appointment or whatever. So either this guy is about to die or he's going to go to church sounding like he got full blown fuck you covid.

I don't know what to feel about that.

-edit-

On my voicemail of course since I have a policy born from many of scammer and robot call to never pick up the phone if I don't know the number.