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Cu-nosuba: God’s Blessing on This Lancer’s Holy Grail War!

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Cherry Lover said:
No, I'm kinda sick of people using Sakura as a throwaway enemy to just murder in cold blood and then forget about. Whilst Rin never gets that kind of treatment.
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Dude, I like her too but you wanna know why? Because she canonically can become a threat on that level if her emotions get fucked with enough. Rin? The worst we see from her is being mildly callous
 
Frakir's brother said:
Dude, I like her too but you wanna know why? Because she canonically can become a threat on that level if her emotions get fucked with enough. Rin? The worst we see from her is being mildly callous
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Eh, Rin can absolutely end up as an enemy if you push her the right way. Sure, she's not dangerous on the level Sakura is, but I've seen plenty of people just casually killing Sakura off in a way they never do for Rin. And Medusa not caring that Sakura got killed is just completely ludicrous, canonically she'll protect Sakura to the end, no matter what she's doing.

alextheconqueror said:
Cherry, you forget something very important, this is a fucking comedy, it doesn't need to make sense all the time it just needs to be funny
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Yes, because murdering an abuse victim is so funny, right? If it was actually a comedic scene, you might have a point, but I don't see anything actually comedic about any of what happened there.
 
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Cherry Lover said:
Eh, Rin can absolutely end up as an enemy if you push her the right way. Sure, she's not dangerous on the level Sakura is, but I've seen plenty of people just casually killing Sakura off in a way they never do for Rin. And Medusa not caring that Sakura got killed is just completely ludicrous, canonically she'll protect Sakura to the end, no matter what she's doing.
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The Medusa thing is bad characterization yes. As for your point on Rin, that's the thing Rin can be an enemy but she's not a threat to the innocent in the same way Sakura canonically can be. HF turns lots of people into Teemu Kiritsugu. People can forgive attempted murder on the protagonist, but mass death on the scale of a natural disaster?
 
Cherry Lover said:
Yes, because murdering an abuse victim is so funny, right? If it was actually a comedic scene, you might have a point, but I don't see anything actually comedic about any of what happened there.
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Did we read the same scene? Everything in the chapter was comedy coded, since the dread of Cu being the one to do the job instead of Scathatch seeing how much he jobbed, Kazuma using steal without expecting that Shishou was going commando, Gudako being a dealer of kinky clothes and "Becoming the waifu", Eris peeking into Kazuma and Rin private time without knowing and many more, even the last part had jokes and avoiding to have serious moments, even the reveal of Dark Sakura was a joke
 
Frakir's brother said:
The Medusa thing is bad characterization yes. As for your point on Rin, that's the thing Rin can be an enemy but she's not a threat to the innocent in the same way Sakura canonically can be. HF turns lots of people into Teemu Kiritsugu. People can forgive attempted murder on the protagonist, but mass death on the scale of a natural disaster?
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Yeah, I know, a lot of the fanbase are edgelords who want to murder an innocent abuse victim because of things she had no control over, and will intentionally make those things happen to give themselves an excuse to murder her in their fic.

alextheconqueror said:
Did we read the same scene? Everything in the chapter was comedy coded, since the dread of Cu being the one to do the job instead of Scathatch seeing how much he jobbed, Kazuma using steal without expecting that Shishou was going commando, Gudako being a dealer of kinky clothes and "Becoming the waifu", Eris peeking into Kazuma and Rin private time without knowing and many more, even the last part had jokes and avoiding to have serious moments, even the reveal of Dark Sakura was a joke
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Yeah, not saying there wasn't comedy in the chapter, but murdering Sakura is definitely not comedic. Not that I'm ever going to find something like that funny, because the "joke" is entirely at Sakura's expense, whilst everyone else gets to carry on as normal.
 
Cherry Lover said:
Yeah, I know, a lot of the fanbase are edgelords who want to murder an innocent abuse victim because of things she had no control over, and will intentionally make those things happen to give themselves an excuse to murder her in their fic.
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You see, that's where I disagree. I'm not gonna claim Sakura deserves it, but she's not at a level I would call "innocent abuse victim". At some point lashing out and killing people removes the innocent status, even even though she shouldn't be killed because of it. Assuming that non-lethal options exist of course.
 
Frakir's brother said:
You see, that's where I disagree. I'm not gonna claim Sakura deserves it, but she's not at a level I would call "innocent abuse victim". At some point lashing out and killing people removes the innocent status, even even though she shouldn't be killed because of it. Assuming that non-lethal options exist of course.
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Sakura isn't "lashing out", though, she's got no conscious control of anything that's happening, nor is it being done out of malice, but rather an instinctual need for magical energy. The only time you can even remotely claim she's "lashing out" is as Dark Sakura, and Dark Sakura doesn't actually kill anyone besides Shinji, Zouken and Kotomine. Not to mention that she's very obviously insane by that point.
 
Cherry Lover said:
Yeah, not saying there wasn't comedy in the chapter, but murdering Sakura is definitely not comedic. Not that I'm ever going to find something like that funny, because the "joke" is entirely at Sakura's expense, whilst everyone else gets to carry on as normal.
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I think it's because you see everything related to Sakura in a too serious lense, wich is fair but is no reason to make a fuss
 
alextheconqueror said:
I think it's because you see everything related to Sakura in a too serious lense, wich is fair but is no reason to make a fuss
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Eh, at best Sakura is just there to provide an excuse for comedy and maybe to act as the butt of the joke (and a very nasty joke at that) on occasion. Obviously, yes, I don't find it funny because it's Sakura, but I also find the whole plot aspect very distasteful, especially given that no-one seems to care (which isn't even played for comedy, it's just not mentioned).
 
Cherry Lover said:
Eh, at best Sakura is just there to provide an excuse for comedy and maybe to act as the butt of the joke (and a very nasty joke at that) on occasion. Obviously, yes, I don't find it funny because it's Sakura, but I also find the whole plot aspect very distasteful, especially given that no-one seems to care (which isn't even played for comedy, it's just not mentioned).
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Her death wasn't meant to be comedic or apathetic...I admit I am a little tunnel visioned on endings so this, along with Medusa's part, was underdeveloped
 
Cherry Lover said:
Eh, at best Sakura is just there to provide an excuse for comedy and maybe to act as the butt of the joke (and a very nasty joke at that) on occasion. Obviously, yes, I don't find it funny because it's Sakura, but I also find the whole plot aspect very distasteful, especially given that no-one seems to care (which isn't even played for comedy, it's just not mentioned).
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Davos said:
Her death wasn't meant to be comedic or apathetic...I admit I am a little tunnel visioned on endings so this, along with Medusa's part, was underdeveloped
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Don't worry about it, this shit happens. like more usually than you can expect
 
Ring is going to fit right with kazuma party. Now the main question how the rest will feel about her joining them.
Will also be funny if she accidentally seduced the party to join with her fun times with kazuma
 
Cherry Lover said:
Sakura isn't "lashing out", though, she's got no conscious control of anything that's happening, nor is it being done out of malice, but rather an instinctual need for magical energy. The only time you can even remotely claim she's "lashing out" is as Dark Sakura, and Dark Sakura doesn't actually kill anyone besides Shinji, Zouken and Kotomine. Not to mention that she's very obviously insane by that point.
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Yeah, I worded it badly. The thing is, she's the direct cause of lots of deaths, even if she isn't responsible for the root cause. I like her and want her to have a happy end whenever possible, it's just that the hurdle is quite a bit higher compared to Rin or even Arturia. If done honestly it's harder to save her than Illya even, so I know more than a few decide to just give her a clean death instead of trying to twist things to work out. No excuse for that here though, except that they didn't know about it, Medea could have fixed Sakura up quite well
 
Frakir's brother said:
Yeah, I worded it badly. The thing is, she's the direct cause of lots of deaths, even if she isn't responsible for the root cause. I like her and want her to have a happy end whenever possible, it's just that the hurdle is quite a bit higher compared to Rin or even Arturia. If done honestly it's harder to save her than Illya even, so I know more than a few decide to just give her a clean death instead of trying to twist things to work out. No excuse for that here though, except that they didn't know about it, Medea could have fixed Sakura up quite well
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Eh, honestly, if you don't want to deal with the issues surrounding Dark Sakura, you just don't have Dark Sakura trigger at all. There's no real reason why an author ever needs to kill her off, even if they don't have a plan for saving her. It's just that some people like being edgy and, for those people, Sakura is a perfect target for that edginess because of her situation.

I'm not sure I'd agree she's harder to save than Illya, though. We have no canonically-defined way to actually save Illya, and most of the means people could logically use to save her apply just as well to Sakura.
 
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