Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Pittauro]

No. No buying books Pittauro. They use up all our bits that way when there are perfectly serviceable expeditions to finance instead for less cost and greater rewards. Also for rituals. And reagents. And a Sacrament.

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you ARE right, BUT with expeditions we don't get to pick the rewards.

They're on average FAR more cost-efficient, considering that (for our best example) we got 720 bits worth of stuff from Canterlot part 2 at the price of an Axe action AND 63 bits, BUT we kinda need Heart specifically if we want the All-4.

Among other things, it would also allow us to save an action in training Selene together with our family, so we'd be paying 60 bits, a servant action we have little use for otherwise (unless we want to build up the prison for Jade's house in case we manage to capture Copper? That sounds suspicious to do though. I suppose COMET could do it instead? or Mareinette, actually, she'd be good at it, she likely has experience),

Mostly right now I'm leaning for

1) 60 bits healing option, to not give up actions. HOPEFULLY Cadance or Stormchaser will pay for us.
2) Mareinette grail influence, and most of our actions (if not all of them) on social.
3)Servants on searching for books. We buy ONLY, if they find them, Heart 3 books and expedition books

I'm not quite sure in terms of follower actions though.

We probably want to deal with Copper. We probably want to send either Comet or Selene to get the grave book (cheap, good to progress with Baldomare).

We probably can't afford to do actual expeditions to the Hive or canterlot part 3 right now.

We might want to summon Mares in the Light, if we have the bits for it. Rarity should either work or do commission if she can afford it.

I'm kinda waiting to see exactly how many bits we have to plan.

 

[Greymere]

I think we already knew that. Why wouldn't they have the standard edge 4 power?

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We knew Names did, but not if lesser spirits did.

 

[Bakkasama]

it also sends the message we'll retaliate against attackers, and also that we survived.

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How doesit send the message that we will retaliate to the public? If we send our Names to deal with Copper we can't claim credit and if we send the Bureau without knowledge of the lores they are going to get slaughtered. The only message it sends is that the commisioner was almost killed and there is no bodies to show for it (since Mareinette ate them). The message it sends is that the attack almost succeeded, which means that another one could work. That applies not only to Copper but to any noble who is both pissed and stupid at the new status quo.

Being able to point the bureau at Copper and upgrading the guard option sounds nice, but if we are going to deal with her via assassination, then it is going to be wasted effort. The one benefit would be if we have them raid the base after we do to launder the lores, but we can do that with the changeling protohive.

Edit: I mean, if we are going to solve the Copper situation on our own, discreetly, I don't think it is worth it to announce that we were attacked because as far as Celestia, the public and the Bureau are concerned, the attackers will get away with it. I am not sure I like the benefits of it more than I dislike the possible consequences.

 

[DelightedOne]

Voting is open, right? It has been twelve hours already so I'll assume it is.

[X] There has been an attempt against the Commissioner's life.

[X] Time

I also had a random thought: is it possible the Knock 2 Artifact from Beneath the Royal Castle part 1 is the key to the warded door? Might want to study it if it is.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Unfortunately this means it it basically impossible to do the knock Sacrament before Ax gets pulled back to the Manaus.

 

[Greymere]

How doesit send the message that we will retaliate to the public? If we send our Names to deal with Copper we can't claim credit and if we send the Bureau without knowledge of the lores they are going to get slaughtered. The only message it sends is that the commisioner was almost killed and there is no bodies to show for it (since Mareinette ate them). The message it sends is that the attack almost succeeded, which means that another one could work. That applies not only to Copper but to any noble who is both pissed and stupid at the new status quo.

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I mean, even if we take out Copper, there's still an entire-ass cult who knows how to do things like summon Windigos in Manehattan. Possibly even multiple cults if the main one ends up fragmenting. Probably should also deal with that, and I don't think mass-murder is our preferred solution.

 

[spiderhellian]

Just pay 60 bits, and that's 2 automatic healed points. We don't need to give up actions or anything else then

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We do need to spend one action to roll two healing dice (even if we spend the bits to make sure they auto succeed).

Without an action we can only heal one wound.

 

[Greymere]

Though I guess, if we wanted the Bureau to specifically be able to catch Copper, we could probably set a goal for "assault an opponent" that's like... laying down a trail that leads directly to the cult? Basically making it very easy for our detectives to pick up the trail. Can we do something like that @OurLadyOfWires? Or like, have our Names assist the investigation indirectly somehow (as in, no direct contact btwn a Name and an agent).

(after they destroy anything incriminating against us, of course)

And then once we're healed, we can help out.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

If we tell the investigators to look into a foe they can succeed pretty much automatically as Velvet will push in the correct direction.

 

[Bakkasama]

I mean, even if we take out Copper, there's still an entire-ass cult who knows how to do things like summon Windigos in Manehattan. Possibly even multiple cults if the main one ends up fragmenting. Probably should also deal with that, and I don't think mass-murder is our preferred solution.

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Considering that Ashen Ghouls are very easy to summon and relatively easy to find, mass murdering cultists is starting to sound appealing (even if realistically it would probably push more ponies to summon them for self defense)

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

You know, that's a good point. @OurLadyOfWires , what would happen if we gained a Lore Scrap in our current state? Does it just vanish into the aether, does it get banked until we are no longer dancing, or do we have to experiment to find out?

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Oh yeah, @OurLadyOfWires, you may have already mentioned it and I just missed it, but what happens if we gain a Lore scrap this turn, e.g. from asking DoA for a Lore lesson? Would we retain it once our Lore levels go back up, putting us at 4/4?

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You can gain scraps of Lore just fine.

Of course, getting the scraps will be harder because you don't have the high lantern to study and stuff. But if you gain scraps, they go into your character sheet as normal. You just won't benefit from them until you stop dancing with death.

EDIT: You also write manifests if you read books. Narratively, you will just circle back and commit your lessons into writing later, after you get better. But this is specifically the effect of "books you read enter your Library". You still can't write manifests on your own, because you have no Lores.

Oh, the rerolls of Edge are actually 5th Ed DND advantages.
Fare enough!

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That's a better way to put it, yeah. I'll go rephrase the Edge re-roll on your sheet.

Won't use the term "advantage" because not everyone played DnD. But saying that you "roll twice" instead of the usual "re-roll" term ought to make it clearer.

Actually, another thought that occurred to me: how do the detectives make the connection that Copper is who they must investigate, since they have no idea who she is right now, as far as we know? Though I suppose she might be in their files of bad ponies somewhere. Is there evidence to implicate Copper at the "crime scene"? Or do we have to tell them we know it was Copper who attacked us? And how do we explain that we know it's her? I feel like we would need to be very careful with what we say there, but the option doesn't seem fussed about this, or at least doesn't mention this.

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Don't worry about it.

Having them investigate Copper will be your final objective with that action. But Velvet will take care of doing it through nudges and in stages.

EDIT: Oh wait, studying is Lantern application, so influence doesn't help?

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Influences help with anything that invokes that Lore, except rituals.

So popping a Lantern influence and trying to read books would be fine. (EDIT: and popping a Heart influence will help your end-of-turn healing rolls, for example)

But don't forget higher level books can be dangerous. And you don't have the Winter to resist Dread, for example.

Behold Paint 0 lore:

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I love this.

I just recalled attacking an opponent is a short expedition — so it only costs an action from the leader.

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Yes.

It is perfectly legal to...

Spoiler: Short expedition talk

Say you have DoA, Comet, and Rarity. It is perfectly fine to do this:

Short expedition 1: DoA leads, Comet and Rarity follow for free.
Short expedition 2: Comet leads, DoA and Rarity follow for free.
Short expedition 3: Rarity leads, DoA and Comet follows for free.

And in all three expeditions, DoA would "take over" with her generalistic +50 bonus, because the best suited pony is the one trying the rolls. And everyone else chips in with their added Lores (unless something like combat or a very specific situation arises).

Granted, if you try to do FIVE short expeditions on the same turn I might start imposing restrictions. Because narrative is still a thing, and a month is still only a month.
But having a pony accompany a short expedition without spending their actions is intentional, so stuff like this can happen. That is why assaulting an opponent is a short expedition.

And of course, when I say "follow for free" I refer to action points. You still need the bits for this to happen.

A few pretty non-urgent questions @OurLadyOfWires
1) When we roll to heal at the end of the turn, is that also with no lore bonuses?
2) If we attack Copper next turn, and Copper attacks us, what happens? Would the two forces meet in battle, would they pass by each other?
3) Does Comet's influence expire this turn or next?

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1 - No lore bonuses. For all intents and purposes your Lore levels are locked this turn. (EDIT: No PERSONAL Lore bonuses. Influences still apply)
2 - Try and find out.
3 - Comet dispelled his Influence after you two were done talking. No free influence for you.

Though I guess, if we wanted the Bureau to specifically be able to catch Copper, we could probably set a goal for "assault an opponent" that's like... laying down a trail that leads directly to the cult? Basically making it very easy for our detectives to pick up the trail. Can we do something like that @OurLadyOfWires? Or like, have our Names assist the investigation indirectly somehow (as in, no direct contact btwn a Name and an agent).

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So, here is the thing.

It takes a reasonable amount of real-life time for a turn to finish. But for game purposes, things are kind of meant to occur in stages. This is still a game after all.

So, I know you want the constables to kick Copper's door RIGHT NOW. But the correct way to have the Bureau attack your foes is by having your detectives look for them first.

Narratively, that is because your opponents are YOUR personal foes. But they are random citizens as far as anyone else is concerned. So, giving your constables a random cutie mark and telling them to "haul them in" is a very bad look.
Do you have the authority to do that? Absolutely. But you guys have been telling me, over the course of an entire quest, that Velvet is a nice pony who keeps appearances. So, I have been tailoring her actions to reflect that she is a nice pony who keeps appearances.

And mechanically, your constables can't attack your opponent because, very technically, there isn't a valid expedition for them to perform.
Yeah, yeah, there actually is an expedition you can put them on. I know. "Assault an opponent" and all. But that is a generic expedition that I put in place to remind you guys that "punching Copper is always an option". That is a concerned effort from Velvet to stop what she is doing, gather her shit, and go raid her enemy. But that can result in anything from murdering Copper, to simply finding an empty warehouse because you were acting on old intel.
What your constables need is an ACTUAL expedition. A "vault", from CS. A designated place that they can plan around and raid. They are professionals, after all, and not a crippled mare with a vendetta.
So, mechanically, you need your investigators to look for your opponent FIRST, so you can have a proper target for your bois.



Anyways. Hope you are all doing well. Voting is open. And remember we are still voting on what version of events you will tell everyone, as well as what to give Mareinette.

(Also, I just realized I never gave you guys the option to "end your contract with Mareinette", I'll go add that right now, and make sure that you guys suffer as much as I will if that is ever picked )

A nice day to all of us!

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Unfortunately the study action is not worthwhile while at zero health as it back 1 action to read a single book or study a single artifact.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Unfortunately the study action is not worthwhile while at zero health as it back 1 action to read a single book or study a single artifact.

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Two books, OR one artifact. That's the old, non Lantern 3 studying action.

But I agree, that is also very little. And I'm not trying to sell any course of actions, you can all do what you want here.

In fact, from my point of view, this will be a very interesting "follower-centric" turn. An engine-check, if you will, of what you are capable of doing without your Velvet powerhouse.

 

[Greymere]

It takes a reasonable amount of real-life time for a turn to finish. But for game purposes, things are kind of meant to occur in stages. This is still a game after all.

So, I know you want the constables to kick Copper's door RIGHT NOW. But the correct way to have the Bureau attack your foes is by having your detectives look for them first.

Narratively, that is because your opponents are YOUR personal foes. But they are random citizens as far as anyone else is concerned. So, giving your constables a random cutie mark and telling them to "haul them in" is a very bad look.
Do you have the authority to do that? Absolutely. But you guys have been telling me, over the course of an entire quest, that Velvet is a nice pony who keeps appearances. So, I have been tailoring her actions to reflect that she is a nice pony who keeps appearances.

And mechanically, your constables can't attack your opponent because, very technically, there isn't a valid expedition for them to perform.
Yeah, yeah, there actually is an expedition you can put them on. I know. "Assault an opponent" and all. But that is a generic expedition that I put in place to remind you guys that "punching Copper is always an option". That is a concerned effort from Velvet to stop what she is doing, gather her shit, and go raid her enemy. But that can result in anything from murdering Copper, to simply finding an empty warehouse because you were acting on old intel.
What your constables need is an ACTUAL expedition. A "vault", from CS. A designated place that they can plan around and raid. They are professionals, after all, and not a crippled mare with a vendetta.
So, mechanically, you need your investigators to look for your opponent FIRST, so you can have a proper target for your bois.

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Ah, I didn't mean making sure that our detectives find her this turn. I meant more like, can we preemptively fake/make a trail so that it take fewer turns/rounds of investigation by our detectives than it would otherwise? Because we'd be able to nudge our detectives in the "correct" direction.

Edit: Unless I'm overestimating how long it would take for our detectives to find Copper on their own I guess

 

[BritBiscuit]

In fact, from my point of view, this will be a very interesting "follower-centric" turn. An engine-check, if you will, of what you are capable of doing without your Velvet powerhouse.

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The actions of different ponys can quite literally be measured in horsepower due to them being horses so it really is an engine-check

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Ah, I didn't mean making sure that our detectives find her this turn. I meant more like, can we preemptively fake/make a trail so that it take fewer turns/rounds of investigation by our detectives than it would otherwise? Because we'd be able to nudge our detectives in the "correct" direction.

Edit: Unless I'm overestimating how long it would take for our detectives to find Copper on their own I guess

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Oh, I get it. Sorry for not understanding you.

Don't worry about it. You picked the least number of actions for the Bureau, in exchange for the highest quality of agents. "What the Commissioner wants, she gets" and all that.

So asking your investigators to find Copper means they will find Copper. Or, if not the mare herself, something very relevant and actionable for you to decide upon on the following turn.

EDIT: Seriously, even I get baffled about this sometimes. You only get one freaking Bureau action per turn, and considering how many options you can choose from that is not a lot. The way this is set up, you REALLY need to pick your fights well, with the Bureau.

The actions of different ponys can quite literally be measured in horsepower due to them being horses so it really is an engine-check

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I love the term "horsepower" so much for this quest.

 

[Greymere]

Oh, I get it. Sorry for not understanding you.

Don't worry about it. You picked the least number of actions for the Bureau, in exchange for the highest quality of agents. "What the Commissioner wants, she gets" and all that.

So asking your investigators to find Copper means they will find Copper. Or, if not the mare herself, something very relevant and actionable for you to decide upon on the following turn.

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Ooh, that is nice to know for planning purposes, actually.

Benefits of going all in on quality I guess!

Edit: One last thing @OurLadyOfWires, can our servants technically do the "Outsider search" action? I mean, I assume we wouldn't tell them what they were actually looking for, but. Dice is dice.

 

[Greymere]

[X] There has been an attempt against the Commissioner's life.

[X] Time

 

[DelightedOne]

Unfortunately the study action is not worthwhile while at zero health as it back 1 action to read a single book or study a single artifact.

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It is actually worth it now we know our scraps will be kept, so we can ask for a Lantern Influence to help with the translation of one of our Level 5 books(Moth for avoiding sunhorse or Knock for not using DoA's action). There is also not much we can do outside since all actions not in our home will have maluses.

We would roll at something between:
40(Influence) + 5(Well read) +14(Learning, but might be 12 if we lose those extra points) +5(Artifact min, max is +15)= +62(worst) and +74(best).

Considering the difficulty of translating the books due to their age we have:
Moth: +62 – 50= +12, at worst and +74 – 50= +24, at best.

Knock: +62 – 30= +32, at worst and +74 –30= +44, at best.

Hope the math is right.

 

[Greymere]

It is actually worth it now we know our scraps will be kept, so we can ask for a Lantern Influence to help with the translation of one of our Level 5 books(Moth for avoiding sunhorse or Knock for not using DoA's action). There is also not much we can do outside since all actions not in our home will have maluses.

We would roll at something between:
40(Influence) + 5(Well read) +14(Learning, but might be 12 if we lose those extra points) +5(Artifact min, max is +15)= +62(worst) and +74(best).

Considering the difficulty of translating the books due to their age we have:
Moth: +62 – 50= +12, at worst and +74 – 50= +24, at best.

Knock: +62 – 30= +32, at worst and +74 –30= +44, at best.

Hope the math is right.

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Also in regards to studying the artifacts, keep in mind that artifacts are, effectively, always DC50 because they provide a bonus proportional to their own Lore level (which is also what determines the DC, iirc).

For example. when we studied our SH3 artifact:

[Artifact Study, cd 80]

[Roll: 59 + 14 (Learning) + 30 (Level 3 source) + 5 (Well Read) + 15 (LANTERN Level 3) – 10 (Entertaining a filly) + 10 (Exceptional mothering skills) = 123]

[Success. Hoof-reading was not required.]

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It was a DC80 check, but we were getting a flat +30 because it was a Level 3 artifact. So we really only actually needed to roll a total of 50 using our own die and bonuses.

So if we're trying to study our artifacts with a max Lantern Influence, we should autosucceed because between our Learning, the SH3 artifact, and the +40 from the Influence, that's definitely over +50 even without our Lantern levels.

 

[Maer]

[X] There has been an attempt against the Commissioner's life.

[X] Time

Time is the least theoretically awful option at large, and we know Velvet would burn herself to ashes for her family. She's also not the type to permit random murder if she doesn't have to, and VERY MUCH not the type to allow baby-snatching. So until we can capture Copper and use her for the Grail Sacrament with Mareinette time feels- to me- like our best option with her.

Then there's being open about it. The benefits- laundering lores, taking out the Cult after Copper is caught covertly and our manuscripts taken back or destroyed, likely increased closeness with the bureau as they realize we're a real point that CAN be killed and not some great bogeyman, the chance to be close with Cadence and some other friends, our family being more aware of the dangers and more incentivized to protect themselves alongside our own protections, setting up the bureau for future cult-stomping activity, possibly using the Cult as a first step on revealing what was done to Selene to Celestia and the others, etc…

All that sounds good. Narrative downsides? Sure. But we were never going to have people believe us untouchable- SOME noble would eventually send an assassin off they felt they'd be targeted. We'll be just as vulnerable then as now. Maybe less as we grow in knowledge and power and guard effectiveness over time. Especially once our guard start learning to have an Edge, on top of any other Lores they scrounge up.

Beyond that, what major narrative consequence is there? Cadence finds out we were attacked- But survived and didn't leave her- Celestia will find out we were attacked- but are already handling it like the frightfully competent Mare we are- and our family becomes more aware of the danger they are in- and more able to prepare and defend against it as a result- as well as some of our friends being able to comfort us and grow closer from the effort. I wish Twilight could see us in this state- I wonder how she'd see it? How it would be viewed in her mind.

I also hope we can heal Celestia of her Daybreaker before the end of the Quest. Mainly so we can send Celestia the Kind to reunite with her heartbroken Twilight. Her and Cadence together might have a better chance than Cadence alone… maybe. That final betrayal before everything probably cut deep, even if it was motivated by Changeling mind control. Then again… Celestia and Shining are basically the only family Twilight has other than Cadence, now… I hate that Twilight missed the wedding…

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

It is actually worth it now we know our scraps will be kept, so we can ask for a Lantern Influence to help with the translation of one of our Level 5 books(Moth for avoiding sunhorse or Knock for not using DoA's action). There is also not much we can do outside since all actions not in our home will have maluses.

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Unless Cadance or someone else is willing to gift us the bits, healing costs money, or getting a Heart influence. Because we have to budget at least 2 actions better for 3 even, for the turn after next for to get the Key that only Opens. We cannot afford for DoA to get unsummoned, just when we where about to start so many expeditions.

This turn I absolutely want to Scry for either the 6th Forge, or Edge Artifacts.

 

[spiderhellian]

And in all three expeditions, DoA would "take over" with her generalistic +50 bonus, because the best suited pony is the one trying the rolls. And everyone else chips in with their added Lores (unless something like combat or a very specific situation arises).

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Oh, that's really nice. So we can have DoA bulldoze the grave expedition if we want, at the price of some extra bits. (I'm fine sending Luna solo, I'm not fine sending Comet who rolls +0 on almost every check)

Voting is open.

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Well one choice is obvious:
[X] Time

The other is less so. Setting the Bureau on Copper does seem potent. It also seems like it would make things pretty messy. Hm.
[X] Nothing happened. You are just ill.

 

[Greymere]

Moth: +62 – 50= +12, at worst and +74 – 50= +24, at best.

Knock: +62 – 30= +32, at worst and +74 –30= +44, at best.

Hope the math is right.

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According to AnyDice, btw, we'd have a 94% chance of finishing the Knock book with 1 AP (i.e. two study slots) with two minimum artifact bonuses, and ~99% with two maximum artifact bonuses. Average is 97%. So if we have Baldomare channel a Lantern Influence for us, we have a very, very good chance to both finish reading the Knock book, getting us the last Knock scrap we need so we can try and speedrun DoA's Sacrament on T21, and also study the Lantern artifact, which gets us a Lantern scrap (1 away from letting us take Baldomare's Sacrament), lets our other mortal Confidants not named Jade actually be able to cast RotT, and then whatever specific use bonus it gives.

 

[Bakkasama]

[X] Time

[X] Nothing happened. You are just ill.

I am wary of giving Celestia more of a reason to doubt her little ponies. A murder attempt on one of her appointees seem like it would do that.

 

[Potdl]

[X] There has been an attempt against the Commissioner's life.

[X] Time

 

[DelightedOne]

According to AnyDice, btw, we'd have a 94% chance of finishing the Knock book with 1 AP (i.e. two study slots) with two minimum artifact bonuses, and ~99% with two maximum artifact bonuses. Average is 97%. So if we have Baldomare channel a Lantern Influence for us, we have a very, very good chance to both finish reading the Knock book, getting us the last Knock scrap we need so we can try and speedrun DoA's Sacrament on T21, and also study the Lantern artifact, which gets us a Lantern scrap (1 away from letting us take Baldomare's Sacrament), lets our other mortal Confidants not named Jade actually be able to cast RotT, and then whatever specific use bonus it gives.

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Oh, now that is interesting, do we need to make one of those if_else plans?

I am wary of giving Celestia more of a reason to doubt her little ponies. A murder attempt on one of her appointees seem like it would do that.

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To be fair, the real issue is Daybreaker which led to the new system and Celestia's current mindset is: "if they can't take care of themselves, I need to stay, but I'm a danger to them now". Hiding a threat to her new system from her is not wise in this case, I'm not saying we will tell her about Copper's cult now, but it is a start if we ever need it(and considering we need to launder the lores anyway, the Bureau won't be useless for long).

I also think it is impossible that in over 1000 of her goverment there wasn't at least one murder of an authority, she might just think it is a noble rebeling because of fear of being "Blueblooded" instead of diving right to "ponies really can't rule themselves". Celestia is a very good liar(but a bad actress, ironically) and is used to manipulating things at a national scale so what she told Fair Trial may very well be what she needed to say to make her take the job seriously.

 

[Greymere]

Oh, now that is interesting, do we need to make one of those if_else plans?

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I think a priority list would probably work? Something like:

[] Plan Blahblahblah
-[] (Social) Whoever
-[] Study (x2), by priority:
--[] 1) Knock 5 book
--[] 2) Lantern 4 artifact
--[] 3) One of our low level books

Edit: Also I think I've changed my mind on telling the Bureau.

[X] Time

[X] Nothing happened. You are just ill.

I think I'd just rather send the full Name squad next turn (this turn? turn 20) against Copper and Neighnia to take them out and destroy anything incriminating, then mop up the minor cultists later when someone inevitably does something stupid and loud enough to attract the attention of the Bureau.

 

[AuthorTransient]

I'm thinking that we could confirm the assassination attempt and then also send an expedition to kill Copper Secateur on turn 20. Don't wait on the constables nor the investigation, just send Biedde and assassinate her before she can try again.

Baldomare to confirm her location, Biedde to kill her.

The investigators can just find her crumbling cult later.

 

[Rafuki22]

[X] There has been an attempt against the Commissioner's life.

[X] Time

"If it is a social action Velvet can do, Mareinette can do it instead."

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Like talking to Twilight? After seeing that 180 she should be able to do something to help her, and yes, i know, Mareinette, but i don't think that leaving Twilight to rot is the best course of action.

Don't wait on the constables nor the investigation, just send Biedde and assassinate her before she can try again.

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I don't know if Biedde alone would be able to do so, if quests have teached me something is that you can stack the deck in you favour and fail or fly by the seat of your pants and succeed anyway somehow.