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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Reader mode
DelightedOne said:
In fact I'm pretty sure the association of the Lionsmith with betrayal is because of that secret he was told, not because of anything he regularly preaches as sacred. Like, I'm sure he believes you should have the right to betray someone, but you are not forced to. That would be more of a Colonel thing if their roles were swapped.
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He literally ascended to his status through a betrayal. Double betrayal even, both his direct superiors in the Wake and the Colonel.
A lot of Hours are like that. The Horned Axe, for example, doesn't have separation as one of her Natures, but it is exactly the point where she conflicts with the Twins.
They all are more complex than their three Natures imply. Except maybe the Crowned Growth. If we ever learn its natures.

The Colonel, on the other hand, is not necessarily Status Quo either. His ascension to the Hour status was through a rebellion against a God-From-Stone, when he have overthrown the Seven-Coils
 
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Arrkhon said:
I feel nothing but sadness at the fact that people want to kill the beautiful flower blooming in the changeling hive, I'm sure Celestia would get better with more esoteric arts to study that show off positive sides of living rather than being stuck solely with one that shows her every single thing she did wrong in her life as well as all of the flaws of the ponies under her
The biggest shame is that it doesn't have any Forge aspect of note, though I could see it's transformation giving some of it's scraps
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I struggle with how people are able to both think that the flower is too dangerous and that making an Enemy of a Name is not too dangerous. Seriously, Eclipse pokes it and what? Gets some non-Lantern Lore? Good! Mono-focusing is unhealthy! Get some Grail or Moth into those hooves before your eyes and brains burn out!
 
Sintonir said:
He literally ascended to his status through a betrayal. Double betrayal even, both his direct superiors in the Wake and the Colonel.
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...

That is what I was talking about. The secret of betrayal and his ascension are connected, but it is interesting how someone else needed to tell him about it.

Makes it feel like betrayal is not his natural calling, but a tool he was given.

And I'm pretty sure the Lionsmith was serving the Colonel directly at that point.
 
Arrkhon said:
I feel nothing but sadness at the fact that people want to kill the beautiful flower blooming in the changeling hive, I'm sure Celestia would get better with more esoteric arts to study that show off positive sides of living rather than being stuck solely with one that shows her every single thing she did wrong in her life as well as all of the flaws of the ponies under her
The biggest shame is that it doesn't have any Forge aspect of note, though I could see it's transformation giving some of it's scraps
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You do not know how much I want to keep it. How brilliant and delightful it could have been for a Lantern Sacrament. To see, to learn, to grow something that's-

Mghghhmmm

Oh, and pish posh the inevitable 'it must be a pony' requirement. I know. I know! I know.

If we could steal it away, I would advocate for it
For now? Let it die or burn. Perhaps both.


DelightedOne said:
Well, the nature of the Lionsmith is not exactly betrayal.
The Nature of the Lionsmith is to be stronger; to be seamless; to make monsters
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Part of my joy of them.
Part of what Velvet is, is that. The strength. The resilience. The self made monsters.

_looks back at Twilight _
Even the failures. To promote... A strength of sorts. Even when things burn.
_looks back at Hills_
And how long has she rebelled? How long has she sought her own strength and to make herself something greater? To forget a new path?
_looks on at her Sons _
To create monsters...

Meghmnmmnmn

Yes.
 
OurLadyOfWires said:
Uncle Steppes is not on the board, currently. Be it because Velvet has more pressing concerns, because she would not think about him being involved, or some other reason, this won't be addressed right now.

He is gone, like the Twilight and the Spike Dodo and the Dragon. So move on with what you have.

Yeah, sure.

If you choose the middle option, Selene can summon Smiles.

I prefer having Velvet summon the Names because the Name summoning rituals are just cool and unique. And because of that "first impressions" moment when they appear in the Wake. But Smiles is a bit of an exception, since you already had an honest chat with him, and his personality is specific.

But of course, Selene will give you his reins and whatnot, "loyal daughter" disclaimers and all that.
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So yeah, if you are voting for Smiles to save Steppes, this is QM confirmation it won't. Also huzzah for Selene, our best Summoner of all things violent! As @ses proved with math, my idea for summoning via Selene is the best idea. Only 105 Bits and 1 Selene AP for a 99.2% chance of success!
 
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Talon Tiger Dino said:
So yeah, if you are voting for Smiles to save Steppes, this is QM confirmation it won't.
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On the other hand, it is also kinda a confirmation that we won't go into conflict with him if we choose Smiles.
So he is somewhere out there doing whatever Biedde wanted him to do, but he isn't going to return and help Biedde's cult against us, if that cult even exists.
 
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Sintonir said:
I see "gone as Twilight and Spike" as "almost certain we won't meet him again"
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not on OUR initiative, at least.

Twilight might still reappear, but if she does it will be EITHER because someone ELSE saves her (probably Soft Sweeps, really, unless Cadance pulls a miracle), or because someone decides to use her against us.
 
Biedde has his own agenda, but if we don't make him an enemy he won't be one. From what I've seen I like Smiles, but I don't know that I trust his words. He can be befriended, but then so can Mareinette. We just may not like it. One of the real issues is cost, having both is incredibly useful, but oh so expensive.

The issue with Biedde is not necessarily that he has some grand cult, though like Mareinette he's clearly been setting foundations. Still it would be unwise to underestimate him, we've seen time and again that Velvet isn't untouchable and a motivated Name is a power onto itself. I like the idea of the Sacrament, and it makes sense to take it, but we'd be playing into their game.
 
As "Fixing" the problem we had with the last Name who had some Moth to them took a Regrettable Action, and I know if our backs were to the wall we would again...

I would prefer to avoid that again if possible.
 
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Sveta08 said:
As "Fixing" the problem we had with the last Name who had some Moth to them took a Regrettable Action, and I know if our backs were to the wall we would again...

I would prefer to avoid that again if possible.
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I wasn't around when that happened, but I distinctly remember reading in discussions that if we had a fitting Sacrament the choice wouldn't be as bad.
And look, here we do get a Sacrament in return!
 
OurLadyOfWires said:
Anyhow, I hope you are doing well! And glad to see you.
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My life is filled with good and interesting things, and I'm always happy to include your work among its roster. Hopefully the same (in the sense of life being good) can be said for you!

…and know what, what the heck.
[X] You will take the coward's way out.
 
DelightedOne said:
So he was most likely dragged to Namehood without a Brand.
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Well, if the process in Cultist Simulator is any indication, ascending as a dyad doesn't actually require passing the Stag Gate and becoming a Know. Which here would translate to the Branding Door and receiving a Brand.

Talon Tiger Dino said:
I struggle with how people are able to both think that the flower is too dangerous and that making an Enemy of a Name is not too dangerous. Seriously, Eclipse pokes it and what? Gets some non-Lantern Lore? Good! Mono-focusing is unhealthy! Get some Grail or Moth into those hooves before your eyes and brains burn out!
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I don't think the flower is too dangerous. But I do think I would rather the Bureau have some time to actually study it rather than it almost certainly getting immediately whisked away by Eclipse, where we will proceed to find out exactly none of the juicy details because Eclipse is no fun and refuses to share.
 
DelightedOne said:
That is one of the lesser reasons I want the Lionsmith to win the Corrivality.

What will the eternal rebel do when his eternal Foe is dead? Will there finally be peace? Will Chaos reign forever? Will he follow the steps of his old man?

The possibilities are so intriguing.
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I'm really not sure that one can exist without the other.

Some excerpts from corrivalty ascensions:
"One day, perhaps, I might somehow still kill him, or he'll kill me, and then we'll both be dead. I think about that sometimes. I still hate him, though it's a familiar and warming flame, and that means I'd like him to die, even if I go down too."
"He might eventually grow strong enough to kill me, or I him, and that would be the end of us both. I think I would regret that. With enough patience and discipline, even hatred becomes only another colour."

Perhaps Biedde doesn't want us to join the Colonel, actually. Right now, only Biedde can gather an army, and will, eventually — and soon in terms of eternity, bring an end to this, them both, both of their Masters and who knows what else. And Colonel maintains the status quo.
 
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Sveta08 said:
As "Fixing" the problem we had with the last Name who had some Moth to them took a Regrettable Action, and I know if our backs were to the wall we would again...
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You mean the problem that was only a problem because no one bothered to look for the Master even though it was obvious she wasn't really gone?

I don't think the players are still that naive.

Mage_of_Eyes said:
I'm really not sure that one can exist without the other.
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The Colonel never needed the Lionsmith before the latter ascended, unless that changed after their war started.


Also, unrelated but I had a dream where Daughter!Silky gave us 9 turns to have a chance to kill Biedde.
 
Mage_of_Eyes said:
Perhaps Biedde doesn't want us to join the Colonel, actually.
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Dude is a slave, it doesn't matter what he wants or doesn't want here.

In any case, I would hope we bring some decisiveness to this decision:
If we take the coward's decision, we had better not waste bits on summoning Smiles when Befriending him will almost certainly make Biedde an enemy anyway?
 
Talon Tiger Dino said:
So yeah, if you are voting for Smiles to save Steppes, this is QM confirmation it won't. Also huzzah for Selene, our best Summoner of all things violent! As @ses proved with math, my idea for summoning via Selene is the best idea. Only 105 Bits and 1 Selene AP for a 99.2% chance of success!
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97%. 99.2 is the Knock chance of success. Heart and Edge fail on nat1s.
 
Solace2117 said:
Biedde has his own agenda, but if we don't make him an enemy he won't be one. From what I've seen I like Smiles, but I don't know that I trust his words. He can be befriended, but then so can Mareinette. We just may not like it. One of the real issues is cost, having both is incredibly useful, but oh so expensive.
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I can't really imagine Smiles friendship being worse in ANY way than Mareinette, really.

Sintonir said:
I wasn't around when that happened, but I distinctly remember reading in discussions that if we had a fitting Sacrament the choice wouldn't be as bad.
And look, here we do get a Sacrament in return!
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Also to be fair... we don't even know HOW letting the Master do his thing would have affected the ending.

As Bird said, a CHANCE of affecting the epilogue for the worse is NOT a certainty. There WAS a chance of Master be amenable to Velvet's plans after being reborn as an Alicorn (having changed), as there is a chance that the Colonel's order would be acceptable ones. Maybe even good ones.

Not all tyrants are inherently evil, not all authorities are inherently untrustworthy.

The reason Velvet IC wouldn't consider Colonel is not because Colonel is evil. It's because Colonel pretends absolute loyalty, and Velvet just can't offer that.

She's too similar to the Colonel. She's the leader, the one to whom others GIVE absolute loyalty (see Jade and Rarity, Selene, her Bureau), not the one to offer it.

She knows best. Or, at least, better than most others.

If that was not true, we wouldn't have kept Selene for ourselves.

dcoconeo said:
If we take the coward's decision, we had better not waste bits on summoning Smiles when Befriending him will almost certainly make Biedde an enemy anyway?
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We'd still want Smiles simply because he's useful, with the two extra actions he has at base (free expedition and normal one).

...this would be a very different discussion if we had found a worthy opponent. IMagine, getting lessons from both Smiles and Biedde, reaching for Edge 6 and 7 on our own terms... There IS a scenario in which we take the Coward's way out, and get the "traditional" sacrament... but it's a bet.

we'd be waiting for Sombra or Starlight Glimmer to come up and become a problem we can face directly.
 
OurLadyOfWires said:
EDIT:
Also, I am pleasantly surprised to see the turn is almost over. Most of the actions left are "administrative" or "reports" from your followers.

Granted, there are still a few Velvet actions left to happen. But the Ashen Wastes hold no dangers to you, given your company, and you can already guess the result of some of the background moves happening (for example, you used three AotL in this fight, so I already indirectly told you that you found a body and raised a Risen, etc).

And of course, a small update where Selene talks to you about her night-soothing activities.

Still, good stuff.
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The people demand Rarity screentime before we send her back into the darkness of the fashion mines!
 
Adhoc vote count started by Talon Tiger Dino on Dec 27, 2025 at 3:27 PM, finished with 300 posts and 39 votes.
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Here we can see that Maximum Name Hotel and Maximum Hostility are incredibly close, practically neck and neck. The loot plans are in a state of confusion, I need to count things to try and coordinate that mess.
 
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Sylve()/. said:
We think, personally, that the people in favour of the coward's way are throwing way too much behind an assumption that Selene can summon Smiles. And that... can be just not true? Velvet is the one who's seen him; it's her that knows his precise "address", so to speak, and not her daughter. We may be wrong, of course. But it does make us wonder.
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The QM literally just confirmed it. Selene can summon Smiles with 97% reliability (only nat1s fail essentially)

OurLadyOfWires said:
Yeah, sure.

If you choose the middle option, Selene can summon Smiles.

I prefer having Velvet summon the Names because the Name summoning rituals are just cool and unique. And because of that "first impressions" moment when they appear in the Wake. But Smiles is a bit of an exception, since you already had an honest chat with him, and his personality is specific.

But of course, Selene will give you his reins and whatnot, "loyal daughter" disclaimers and all that.
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Sylve()/. said:
We think, personally, that the people in favour of the coward's way are throwing way too much behind an assumption that Selene can summon Smiles. And that... can be just not true? Velvet is the one who's seen him; it's her that knows his precise "address", so to speak, and not her daughter. We may be wrong, of course. But it does make us wonder.
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QM confirmed that she can.

Edit: Moth'd
 
I ain't spooked on Summoning.
I'm spooked on having an enemy more than anything. Last time we had a real one was... Shoot... The constable on back then! Cobble pots or Iron Button or some fella.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Talon Tiger Dino on Dec 27, 2025 at 3:27 PM, finished with 300 posts and 39 votes.
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Alright, with some tabulations I have found that there are:

22 Votes for Stealing Bits, 10 for Not Stealing
19 for Leaving the Prisoner, 12 for Taking the Prisoner
18 for Taking the Map, 13 for Bureau Map, 2 for Destroying Map
17 for Killing the Flower, 15 for Capturing the Flower, and 3 for Killing and Burning the Flower.

Therefore, the Plan most aligned with the aggregate is... The Mothy Path Forward! Which is also our front runner Plan-wise; I wasn't expecting such alignment, honestly; figured that at least one item might be going against the grain. Oh well.
 
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Talon Tiger Dino said:
Therefore, the Plan most aligned with the aggregate is...
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This one.

[] Mayority vote.
-[] (MAP) Take it for yourself.
-[] (LOOT) I will steal from the poor, innocent pony prisoners.
-[] (PRISONER) Leave him.
-[](THING) Kill it.

Edit: Also The Mothy Path Forward
 
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spiderhellian said:
It really is the coward's way out.

One measly enemy! One measly enemy stuck in the Mansus! One measly enemy stuck in the Mansus who is the Name of Edge-borne assassination!

We're summiting the Mansus and we're afraid of one measly enemy!
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Having more AP is better than less AP, and Biedde is essentially free to keep summoned now if we don't make him an enemy. It means committing to not making him an enemy in the future, but that's not exactly an onerous ask. Taking the coward's way out is just by far the best option for reaching Glory, especially if we don't plan on rushing it within the next 3 turns.

Heck, summoning 3 MITL-turns to pay the Micromanage cost via follower AP is cheaper than the 60 bit short monster hunt that we just paid for!
 
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Rafuki22 said:
This one.

[X] Mayority vote.
-[X] (MAP) Take it for yourself.
-[X] (LOOT) I will steal from the poor, innocent pony prisoners.
-[X] (PRISONER) Leave him.
-[X] (THING) Kill it.
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Amusing, though it is identical to the Mothy Way Forward Plan.

Now then, onto the debate between Out vs Offer. I have seen people say that summoning Smiles is too expensive in terms of AP and upkeep, but I will note that our total AP per turn stays the same regardless of our choice! If we take Offer, we lose Biedde's 2 AP and gain Smile's 2 AP for net 0 AP-per-turn gained. For Out, we gain Smile's 2 AP and lose 2 Follower AP for net 0 AP-per-turn lost. Either way our AP-per-Turn remains the same.

In terms of one-time AP costs, Out costs 1 Selene AP up front and any AP used to extend his Summoning Period. Offer costs 0 AP up front followed by however many AP it takes to stamp out whatever Biedde has set up via rites, scouting, fights, and healing, as well as whatever AP it takes to befriend Smiles.

Now in terms of money, Out does have an upfront cost of 105 Bits, while Offer has an unknown cost of however many rituals, expeditions, medicines, and losses it takes to stamp out whatever network Biedde has made.

So really, we are weighing the benefit of a Sacrament and a free summon against the costs incurred by having Biedde as an enemy.
 
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