Exalted 3E Discussion

[Biigoh]

From what I understand they give you the exaltation then let you do whatever you want and they're just along for the ride.

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So.... Infernals are reality tv for yozi and demons?

 

[Drak4806]

That's my interpretation.

 

[Anasurimbor]

The key change of the new Thaumaturgy system is that while mortals may beseech the gods for succor, it is not their place to demand divine blessings.

I liked my Mortal Magic Science dammit.

I'm just going to ignore this horseshit and use the 2nd Ed version of Thaumaturgy.
Especially since several cultures make no damn sense if you use 3rd Ed Thaumaturgy.

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Oh, which ones? I can't really recall anything like that.

 

[Sol Mark-1]

Why I feel that I'm liking less Exalted E3, and liking more E2/2.5?

 

[Nervaqus987]

So.... Infernals are reality tv for yozi and demons?

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More of a soap opera/wuxia series than anything.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

So.... Infernals are reality tv for yozi and demons?

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And advertisement. From what i understood the Yozis are acting clever-ish with the first crop of Infernal Exalted to make them "popular" in Creation. That is meant to harvest them some faith/recognition/prayers that Yozis plan to then sacrifice to create "real" Loyalist Exalted. First crop is just a re-purpoused Solar Exaltations. The second crop is planned to be a living extensions. Or going by your comparision:

First crop of Infernals is a reality TV, that they get paid to watch.
Second crop if Infernals is intended to be a Nerve Gear coupled with hacking system, to use "virtual reality" to change the unenviable reality of their own situation. I think.

The key change of the new Thaumaturgy system is that while mortals may beseech the gods for succor, it is not their place to demand divine blessings.

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You are mistaking Divine Charms. Thaumaturgy was always about asking for shit in correct manner. The "Roll X to see the results" emulated that many factors contribute to success or failure. Not a bored Exalt pouring motes into Charm and stomping his metaphorical foot down.

Oh, which ones? I can't really recall anything like that.

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Lack of reliable-to-learn Thaumaturgy means that some nations that heavily rely on it have less sense. I recall there was one wich used Art of Astrology for everything. With each Astrological Procedure now needing a Speshul Snowflake training your doods, one at time, the whole reliance on the Art becomes ... bothersome.

 

[Imabot]

Word-of-Dev is that your PC will never be as cool or strong as their First Age incarnation, no matter what you do.

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What? Why? Just because they say so or is there a very solid reason for it?

 

[Bre Karn]

What? Why? Just because they say so or is there a very solid reason for it?

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It may be a deformation of the dev claim that the corebook system doesn't have to accurately modelize First Age Exalts (in reference to Charms that are not Usurpation-OK like Dual Magnus Prana, or those Investigation powers that would have prevented the betrayal of the Sidereals) or the war with the Primordials.
Basically, the devs wanted to calibrate the system only against the backdrop of Bronze Age adventure, not every possible era of Exalted.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Or they could simply wrote that Solar Age and Primordial Age had different rules and Exaltations work differently now because Incarna wasn't just indolent with X-Box and were fiddling with reality to stabilize their Overlordship.
Geeze, it's the basic premise of World of Darkness. That reality is malleable and no truth is eternally correct.

 

[Nervaqus987]

Or they could simply wrote that Solar Age and Primordial Age had different rules and Exaltations work differently now because Incarna wasn't just indolent with X-Box and were fiddling with reality to stabilize their Overlordship.
Geeze, it's the basic premise of World of Darkness. That reality is malleable and no truth is eternally correct.

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Now, you see, you'd have a point if Exalted was running on World of Darkness Rules.

But the thing is, it isn't. The game lines are separate and the idea of Creation being the prehistory of the World of Darkness was ditched early on in 2e's lifespan.

 

[Drak4806]

And advertisement. From what i understood the Yozis are acting clever-ish with the first crop of Infernal Exalted to make them "popular" in Creation. That is meant to harvest them some faith/recognition/prayers that Yozis plan to then sacrifice to create "real" Loyalist Exalted. First crop is just a re-purpoused Solar Exaltations. The second crop is planned to be a living extensions. Or going by your comparision:

First crop of Infernals is a reality TV, that they get paid to watch.
Second crop if Infernals is intended to be a Nerve Gear coupled with hacking system, to use "virtual reality" to change the unenviable reality of their own situation. I think.

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I think the Devs got rid of the idea of separate Infernal generations.

But honestly we won't know what Infernals are like until they come out in 2055

 

[Stroth]

Geeze, it's the basic premise of World of Darkness. That reality is malleable and no truth is eternally correct.

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Well fortunately this isn't the World of Darkness.

Because holy shit that was a stupid godamn idea which made absolutely no sense.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Well fortunately this isn't the World of Darkness.

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You know that Exalted is all made up by magic cast on Pure Undiluted Bullshit, aka Wyld, to act in certain ways? *raises eyebrow*

 

[Stroth]

You know that Exalted is all made up by magic cast on Pure Undiluted Bullshit, aka Wyld, to act in certain ways? *raises eyebrow*

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Magic which forces reality to be unmalleable and causes certain truths to be eternally correct.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Okay, let me rephrase. It's a solid, well maintained lie. With capital L. Because it is not "truth" or "eastern bunny" but just Wyld forced to act in certain ways.
On the other hand, World of Darkness seem to be the same type of engine, but worn down enough that it seemingly falls apart in places especially in the access to the Admin console.

 

[Nekraa]

Creation is a lie in the same way that a cake is a lie because it's not an actual cake, it is just lots of atoms (who in turn is made up of even smaller parts and so on) that just has the shape of a cake. But it's not actually a cake. That's a lie. It is actually lots of atoms and even smaller stuff.

-.-

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

And then you punch the cake with Quicksilver Hand of Dreams and it becomes whatever the fuck you want in your trippy dream as the Wyld pours in from the cake shaped hole in reality.

 

[Space Penguin]

Okay, let me rephrase. It's a solid, well maintained lie. With capital L. Because it is not "truth" or "eastern bunny" but just Wyld forced to act in certain ways.
On the other hand, World of Darkness seem to be the same type of engine, but worn down enough that it seemingly falls apart in places especially in the access to the Admin console.

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Fuck the engine. At least with the end of the engine, everyone can ascend as per the seemingly canonical ending to M:TA where as in Exalted. The mortals can only hope for the below:

Granted. This is the same for WOD but ascension for everyone bitches!

I actually like the Technocracy itself.

What I dislike are the people that pretend the Crats are White Knights in Shining Armor that can do no wrong and are the Be-All End-All of WoD.
And the people that try to pretend that the leaders of the Technocracy aren't genocidal sociopaths.

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Way I see it. Everyone has a point. Even the Nephandi as Mj12 so eloquently put it:

They're inherently right though. They're the good guys of Mage. The only people who realize that the world is so broken, where the human spirit is inherently corrupt and nihilistic, that the world must end. Humanity wants the world to end. The Sleepers are the ones who invented old age, so they could die and rot and decay. The Sleepers are the ones who invented disease, and when the Technocracy offered them cures, decided that they preferred nothing and so created antibiotic-resistant bacteria and AIDS and other things out of whole cloth. So they could sicken and die. The Sleepers are the ones who want to die in agony, so when the Technocracy offered universal healthcare so nobody would become sick, they created bureaucratic inefficiency and corruption in it so people could die in waiting rooms with flies festering on their open sores. The Sleepers are the ones who, when the Technocracy offered them empathetic, community policing from Robert Peel, subverted it so they could have their Rodney Kings and their Fergusons and their massacres.

The Technocracy are fools who fight a losing war to deny the existence of entropy. The Traditions are fools who are blinded by their own hubris and don't take a look at what the Sleepers really want. If the Sleepers wanted it, they could make all this evil impossible. But they don't. In fact, they talk it up. This is what mankind is. Mankind wants rape. They want murder. They want homophobia, and genocide, and bigotry. Mankind revels in it. We understand what humanity means. We are more human than you. But we also understand goodness-and we understand that the only goodness in a world where its creators want nothing but more evil is annihilation.

Ascension? Ha. Cast them all into the pit. They're not worthy. You already know this. This is why you judge them, staying separate from them in your ivory towers, only finding the ones you deem "worthy." Look into your soul and embrace it.

If you want to be a hero-remember all the fantasy novels you read? About the evil race which exists only for evil and must be entirely cast into the pit?

That is mankind.

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Plus, I don't know about you but some things in WOD need to be genocided.

But yeah, when there is no such thing as truth and reality is what you want/believe it to be. Everyone is correct.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Fuck the engine. At least with the end of the engine, everyone can ascend as per the seemingly canonical ending to M:TA where as in Exalted. The mortals can only hope for the below:

Granted. This is the same for WOD but ascension for everyone bitches!

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Nope. WoD world is BETTER than ours. It can be better. Just need to kick humanity off it's comfortable high-horse so they start CRAWING the good things. In short, it needs Exalted style therapy.

And mass Ascension? To me it seems like what happens when human in Exalted walks into the Wyld.

Way I see it. Everyone has a point. Even the Nephandi as Mj12 so eloquently put it:

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Nephandi are people who gave up on growing and wallow in despair. I witnessed a game-campaign where fucking Sabbat Vampires saved the world.
From Antediluvians. By building new faction, compromising of various magical beings of WoD, annihilating not-allies aka OTHER VAMPIRES with the help of quite eager Werewolves. And more militant Mages.
Players managed to create a new Bloodline (sorta/kinda monstrous like the Gargoyles Bloodline) and had patiently and slowly learned to mimick some of weaker Mage shit with high-level Thaumaturgic rituals.
Well, the world ended when they started helping Werewolves with their own "Apocalypse" shit. Who knew Holy Nuking the Wyrm was bad idea?

Plus, I don't know about you but some things in WOD need to be genocided.

But yeah, when there is no such thing as truth and reality is what you want/believe it to be. Everyone is correct.

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Humanity of WoD needs it's coddling ended. It seems that current comfortable living they enjoy is too much good stuff for them.
Because tragedy isn't that humans of WoD are evil. Tragedy is that they are generally wimps and reality reflects that stuff.

 

[Yzarc]

The Devs got rid of the 2nd batch of infernals thing after a HUGE outcry of people not wanting to play "Chumps" who were a distraction for the Real Infernals. So they dumped the whole thing or so thay said. Dunno what they are thinking now though.

As for Lore changes, two things stand out.

1. Exalted are now chosen of the gods again and an Exaltation is now a "Miracle" and not an shard as in 2E which seeks out hosts by itself.

2. The "Enemies of the Gods" death cursed the gods but the gods predicted this and used protection so it bounced off them and hit the Exalted instead and SOMEHOW the gods never noticed this or bothered to check when the Solars went mad.

 

[Anasurimbor]

2. The "Enemies of the Gods" death cursed the gods but the gods predicted this and used protection so it bounced off them and hit the Exalted instead and SOMEHOW the gods never noticed this or bothered to check when the Solars went mad.

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Thus has it ever always been:

Yet, as the Primordials had died, they had coughed out curses against their murderers. Though they had intended them for the gods, the gods had wrapped themselves in wards against such death shouts, and it was the hands of the Exalted which were stained red with blood. As time went by, the curses of the Primordials took root and, in due season, blossomed and bore fruit.
...
The Unconquered Sun, disgusted by the hubris of his followers and blind in his own hubris to the workings of the curse, turned his back upon the Realm.

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[UrsaTempest]

The Devs got rid of the 2nd batch of infernals thing after a HUGE outcry of people not wanting to play "Chumps" who were a distraction for the Real Infernals. So they dumped the whole thing or so thay said. Dunno what they are thinking now though.

As for Lore changes, two things stand out.

1. Exalted are now chosen of the gods again and an Exaltation is now a "Miracle" and not an shard as in 2E which seeks out hosts by itself.

2. The "Enemies of the Gods" death cursed the gods but the gods predicted this and used protection so it bounced off them and hit the Exalted instead and SOMEHOW the gods never noticed this or bothered to check when the Solars went mad.

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Yeah, I remember reading it on 2E. Can't remember which page though.

The way I take it, the Gods think they managed to resist the curse or some such, not knowing it bounced and affected Exalted.

 

[Yzarc]

Really? I thought it was a new thing, as I don't remember reading it in 2E. I guess this makes sense especially with the Sun being blind to his own hubris part added. 3E worded it differently so I had issues with it.

When the Exalted slew the enemies of the gods, those ancient monsters pronounced a terrible death-curse against the traitorous Incarnae. The Unconquered Sun and his compatriots had anticipated this, however, and crafted mighty magic to protect themselves. What they failed to notice was that the death-curse of the fallen ancients, thwarted by the gods, took root in the hearts of their Chosen.

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[Space Penguin]

2. The "Enemies of the Gods" death cursed the gods but the gods predicted this and used protection so it bounced off them and hit the Exalted instead and SOMEHOW the gods never noticed this or bothered to check when the Solars went mad.

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Hmm, too busy with the games of Divinity?

Nope. WoD world is BETTER than ours. It can be better. Just need to kick humanity off it's comfortable high-horse so they start CRAWING the good things. In short, it needs Exalted style therapy.

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I can see it now. A Solar Exalted specced for Social fu comes to OWoD Verse and social fu's people into being awesome so that they can ascend.

"Females!! Do you want infinite cocks and tentacles?! You can get them, simply ascend!!"

"Loser males!! Do you want infinite loyal waifus that can be demons or monsters girls if you want?! You can get them, simply ascend!!"

And mass Ascension? To me it seems like what happens when human in Exalted walks into the Wyld.

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Huh? Don't they just mutate and shit?


Guys, a question. Paradox bought White Wolf. So what has been done with that so far? Also, what about Onyx Path? I mean they are currently producing NWOD and the 20th anniversary addition. So what happens with that? Are they now printing stuff for Paradox or what?

 

[Sydonai]

Huh? Don't they just mutate and shit?

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That's what happens if you fail or screw up.
If you prepare correctly( and get lucky) then you can Enlighten your Essence, Initiate yourself into Sorcery( or Supernatural Martial Arts?), alter your stat-spread, get specific mutations, obtain Graces and other forms of Raksha Shinies, or just generally Shape things.

Theoretically any mortal is capable of this, which is probably why Solars got the Wyld-Shaping Charms.

 

[Nervaqus987]

Guys, a question. Paradox bought White Wolf. So what has been done with that so far? Also, what about Onyx Path? I mean they are currently producing NWOD and the 20th anniversary addition. So what happens with that? Are they now printing stuff for Paradox or what?

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Provided I'm remembering everything right?

oWoD is being produced under the original name. nWoD got a name change to "Chronicles of Darkness" to cut down on newbie confusion and is also still being produced. I believe that the way things are currently going is that Paradox is hiring Onyx Path to do the writing and such. So basically, very little has changed aside from who owns what.

Aside from Scion and Trinity, both of which lines are owned directly by Onyx Path and are getting new Editions. Scion already had a very successful kickstarter. The Trinity stuff on the other hand, is way over the horizon.

 

[UrsaTempest]

I think they also change it so CofD now uses Metric instead of Imperial, but maaaaybe I misremember it

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Hmm, too busy with the games of Divinity?

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It's made of pure crack.

I can see it now. A Solar Exalted specced for Social fu comes to OWoD Verse and social fu's people into being awesome so that they can ascend.
"Females!! Do you want infinite cocks and tentacles?! You can get them, simply ascend!!"
"Loser males!! Do you want infinite loyal waifus that can be demons or monsters girls if you want?! You can get them, simply ascend!!"

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I had something along this in mind:
"All of you who are hateful, fuck losers! Lose all libido and be calm. All of you who aren't hateful fucking losers, listen well! Reality is what we make of it, be better people. Or be hateful fucking losers!"
"All of you fucking Mages! Listen, go Ascend and stop being such drama queens! All you fucking Werewolves, shut up and be the fuck calm or roll over and die! All of you fucking vampires, just stake yourselves and save me trouble."
This way excessive amounts of hateful fucking losers among WoD humanity go die in one or two generations. 80% die-off means that there is major chance of fresh start.

Huh? Don't they just mutate and shit?

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Nah. When exalted-verse leaves Creation and enters the Pure Chaos, aka Wyld proper, they melt down into constituent Wyld "particles". Or soldier on pure Willpower. Since in the Wyld all rules of Creation are not-existent.
Theoretically speaking you can walk into the Wyld, as Creation-Born, change yourself into something else and return as Primordial. Of sex and tentacles, for example.

Of course Creation-Born expect to "die horribly or mutate into monsters" when walking into Wyld-washed areas where rules of Creation are loosened, so there is that.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Since in the Wyld all rules of Creation are not-existent.

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Several remain. Creation remains the centre of the universe, time continues to flow in one direction only, and the defences of the Exalted cannot be overcome.

 

[Nekraa]

Nah. When exalted-verse leaves Creation and enters the Pure Chaos, aka Wyld proper, they melt down into constituent Wyld "particles". Or soldier on pure Willpower. Since in the Wyld all rules of Creation are not-existent.
Theoretically speaking you can walk into the Wyld, as Creation-Born, change yourself into something else and return as Primordial. Of sex and tentacles, for example.

Of course Creation-Born expect to "die horribly or mutate into monsters" when walking into Wyld-washed areas where rules of Creation are loosened, so there is that.

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Ahahah. No.

You're so wrong you bound up to being right and then down to wrong again.

For one thing, the rules of Creation isn't non-existent in the Wyld. Most of them are bent, but as an example, time still works as it should. It can go a bit slower, or a bit faster (I think) but time travel is still right out.

You also seem to forget that the denizens of the Wyld barely matters. Raksha, the "lords of chaos"? Sure, they're great and powerful when they can play around in the Wyld where nothing matters. But if they enter Creation they're suddenly mortal, can't warp reality as they want, they need sustenance, iron hurts them.

Sure, forge yourself into a "primordial of sex and tentacles" violate and abuse the chaff in the Wyld. And then enter Creation full of hubris and see yourself be undone as you consist of dreams and nightmares and nothing concrete. Poof, you disappear in a puff of logic.