Feudal Quest

[Thomasfoolery]

Meh, black magic sounds like it's the corruptive sort, and even if it isn't there's plenty to explore with even just flesh magic, so that wouldn't be a huge imposition, and a dead weight for a wife does not sound appealing. Charming them both sounds pretty dumb honestly, doesn't seem to have any kind of desirable end-game as I'm pretty sure we practice marital monagamy.

[X] Encourage one (Ezti) and discourage the other (Chesna).

I also got a chuckle out of Dominic here,

Amazing the things these backwoods nobles get up to

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He sounds pretty impressed about it, that said it does seem to lend more credence to the viability of breaking into timis's lands and stealing back the wizadry equipment in the future.

 

[staplesdex2]

[X] Charm powers activate! Clearly they want you to seduce them.
- Both. At the same time. Imagine the possibilities.

Might as well practice that Charm trait out of curiosity.

 

[Walkir]

[X] Banter a bit, but don't let things go too far. You aren't going to make any commitments right now.

Both comes over as insulting, Ezti is locking us in politically (and I'm not sure on how I should read that on her and mistresses), Chesna would just be a trophy, which he easily can do without.
I'd need to read up on the church, the relation to Ezti's nation and such more before deciding that her other traits all outweigh the church bit. Not to forget, we're going to see more nobles IIRC and should not decide before having met everyone.

Well, keep in mind that we are getting another stat point 'soonish', and that we can get more statpoints after many adventures/years of effort. Given that the Dita thing happens in a 4 years deadline, and that simply raising Flesh/Fire/Force to 4 and learn skills would take forever anyway, getting to Soul 5 would probably happen sooner than we get capped on our magic learning. If we do enough adventures and get it to 4 beforehand, that is.

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True, true. I just really want to get Perfect Harem Benediction... Although a less drastic 4+4 version should be more ethical, so...

 

[Graig]

[X] Encourage Ezti, and discourage the Chesna.

We will likely want to marry Ezti eventually. If we really want to use black magic we can do something like kill her or mind control her.

 

[Jack Trade]

[X] Banter a bit, but don't let things go too far. You aren't going to make any commitments right now.

 

[fitzgerald]

[X] Banter a bit, but don't let things go too far. You aren't going to make any commitments right now.
[X] Let it slip that Grandfather has plans to use your marriage for politics

 

[Walkir]

[X] Let it slip that Grandfather has plans to use your marriage for politics

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We're a noble. Marrying and producing heirs is half the job.

 

[DarkLight140]

Time for some consideration of our goals, I think.

We do want to be allied with both Chesna and Ezti. It's very much to our benefit to have people with a good opinion of us and with an interest in looking out for our interests as our neighbors, so it's important that whatever happens we maintain their goodwill. Fortunately we already have that by default, since we're related and both of them are seemingly friends with Dita, who is on our side at the moment.

Beyond that default, though, both of them have serious issues. Chesna is basically having her fief run by someone she seemingly dislikes and who definitely has his own interests at heart, has a thirst for adventure and the exotic that simply isn't being met, and doesn't have marriage prospects she both approves of and is capable of pursuing at the moment. Ezti's fief is openly hostile to a powerful, militarized neighbor. We need to discuss these issues with them and see what assistance we might be able to offer in resolving their problems, and what they'll be able to offer us in turn. Alliances are built and solidified on the groundwork of mutual benefit and assistance, and it's that which we need to try to build up.

Marriage is one thing that we might be able to use to our advantage, but marrying Ezti would immediately plunge us into a war that we don't yet have the assets in place to win, and marrying Chesna wouldn't be of anywhere near as much benefit to our prospects. That means that in order to move forward with either, we would need to work out with them how to pull it off successfully and maximize the gain to both parties. As we're spending days in close proximity to them, this is a prime opportunity to talk over just that, if as part of the topic of how we can assist each other- a marriage alliance is ultimately just another option on the table here, and while an important one it's not the only one.

Throwing a few ideas out:
-Assist Ezti by building up our forces and militarily allying with her against Rogatica.
-Assist Ezti by establishing friendly relations with Rogatica and feeding her information as to his assets and plans.
-Assist Ezti by arranging the assassination of Rogatica (do not mention this one, but think it and find out about his heirs, etc.).
-Assist Chesna by arranging for a confrontation with Nikolai in which he loses face and/or social standing, potentially including his position, or otherwise is forced into doing something she wants.
-Assist Chesna by helping her mother find her a suitable match, and attempting to push for someone who suits her preferences (and also ours) while doing so.
-Assist Chesna by convincing her mother of virtually anything that she wants her mother convinced of but is having trouble with, and a charming young lord she has at least some trust for might be listened to about.
-Chesna helps us by aiding us in getting leverage to force Nikolai to stop screwing our fief.
-Either of them helps us by having some of their troops or retainers come aid us in clearing out haunts, beastmen, bandits, or river pirates.
-Either of them assists us by arranging to purchase or otherwise acquire certain grimoires from Baron Timis.
-Either of them assists us by helping us to find a suitable wife (if we conclude that they themselves are off the table).

Essentially, the key point is to remember here that we aren't just talking to two lovely women that we might want to marry- we are talking to two allied nobles with whom we can and should be scheming. Some of the above might not be practical and certainly some are mutually exclusive, but the point is that we need to get some serious plans made while we have the chance to speak with our allies.

As far as flirting goes, remember the halo effect- if they think well of us in one area, they're likely to think well of us in other areas as well. That means it's to our benefit to banter up a storm and make them both enjoy our company and regard a great deal and crave more of it. We should go as far as we can without offending either of them in any way, giving the impression that we're actually promising anything, or doing anything potentially politically detrimental. Essentially, be willing to go as far as they're willing to go while making sure they understand that everything is being done purely for fun, and unless we hash out a serious alliance with all practical considerations taken into account nothing can turn serious. We don't need either of them feeling somehow deceived.

 

[Arkeus]

Snip

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[X]Pretty much this.

It's important to keep in mind here that while it's hard not to have been with out mistresses this week it's no reason to actually forget about politics. Those two women have formidable political influences in their own way- they might not have much agency, but any impact we have on them will influence how powerful people think of us. Furthermore, one is a cousin in dire straight (not so obviously dire as Dita, but equally bad in its own way) and the other one is a rare woman fighter that might be blessed by Khersis, and we would be foolish to under-estimate the ones Khersis choose. We should also do well to remember that while our father will potentially be extremely powerful in the future, those two women have a direct link to the seat of power of a barony- do not act like their social status isn't important. As such, treating them like allied schemers is probably key.

Oh, and if we have so much trouble being away from our mistresses for a mere week, we should be keeping this in mind in the future, especially asneither of our mistress are precisely the kind we can take while traveling. Learning restraint won't be fun, though.

 

[Silenteight]

[X] Plan DarkLight140

 

[staplesdex2]

Snip

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So essentially you chose either the first or third option.

 

[Walkir]

I can only agree to DarkLight140 and Arkeus here.

 

[Falconis]

Darklight seems to have the right of it
Chat them up, but don't let it go too far.

 

[megrisvernin]

[X] Plan DarkLight140

 

[Robotninja]

[X] Plan DarkLight140

What are the benefits of black magic, anyway? What are we giving up by not studying it? It would have to be really, really shiny to make up for all the drawbacks.

 

[Arkeus]

What are the benefits of black magic, anyway? What are we giving up by not studying it? It would have to be really, really shiny to make up for all the drawbacks.

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My understanding is that black magic is, strictly, 'tainted magic'. So the benefits are 'you don't limit your powers by warding off the taint'. Also, sorcery is rare so it's easier to only use wizardry (no needing to be born with it?) and that needs much more warding.

However, the church has trouble telling when someone is tainted, so anything that is too powerful is better hidden.

EDIT:
Anyway, should we try, when Chesna is a better ally, to talk to her about Nikolai possibly planning to make sure she never has a debut in order to put in place his power grab for our uncle Pelav's barony? The goal here would be to motivate her to be a bit more serious about the barony, of course. Oh, and possibly putting things in motion for having Nikolai fired/executed for being a traitor thief, and then gets our friendship with Chesna as a way to have a powerful allied barony.

 

[Grail]

Now, our most urgent needs come down to clearing our land of infestation and removing Nikolai as a threatening leech on our economy. These two things are simply necessary for us to establish our relatively small domain and more importantly, the longer they plague us the worse we will appear for it. Now the best way for us to do that and do it in the most profitable way we can is by discussing with our two lovely companions. See if we can build up our army and military forces, under the guise of needing it to remove the pirates, beastmen, and bandits with the assistance of our friendly neighbors it would be both inconspicuous and allow us to move against Rogatica in the future. It would also be of great help to finally carve out a road between our two lands to facilitate this. Sidebar, Rogatica is a major looming threat to us. It will be a trivial effort for them to consume us whole if they are allowed to succeed and the Baron maries Ezti, not only that they'll have nearly surrounded Pischia leaving Timis our only neighbor. And of course Timis isn't exactly our favorite person or we won't be his unless we can cover up Kat well. So it's in both of our best interests to begin this as soon as we can. Furthermore if we can turn Chesna on to how underhanded Nikolai is being we may just be able to work out the definition of a mutually beneficial endeavor by removing him from power. Basically what I want is for each of us to assist the others in strengthening their power base by removing the greatest threats to them.

This, to me, sounds like a straightforward agenda that we can discuss-but subtly. The whole time we're of course being our oh so charming self, we shouldn't discourage either one of them. The key to this is to make everyone feel special. Either of them would be great, they both have a lot to offer, but we're in precarious situation right now. Ezti to me sounds like the better deal, her being devoutly Khersian and yet tolerant seems like the perfect match for us because the public would see her as a tempering force for us if it becomes widely known we have an inordinate magical ability. We don't even know where to start with Witchcraft at the moment and frankly it seems like more trouble than it's worth for us who definitely would be better off remaining handsome and has more than enough magic to utilize. This is not to mention the barony she offers or the mutual foe we will inevitably need to defeat. That said, flirt with both, be nice to both, I'd like to hear more about Ezti, but we're not making any decisions now.

 

[Walkir]

@Shaper: I need to reread the whole thing, but marrying cousins and the problems gained by marrying into two sides of a conflict aside - how many wifes (mistresses probably only count if their upkeep or treatment causes hardships for the general population) may a man of Dominic's status have without appearing greedy, overstepping his bonds or similar political/social repercussions?

 

[ShaperV]

@Shaper: I need to reread the whole thing, but marrying cousins and the problems gained by marrying into two sides of a conflict aside - how many wifes (mistresses probably only count if their upkeep or treatment causes hardships for the general population) may a man of Dominic's status have without appearing greedy, overstepping his bonds or similar political/social repercussions?

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In Borjeria nobles only get one wife at a time (which actually causes a lot of the social conflict, but that's typical). Mistresses don't count, but you're supposed to keep them out of the public eye and make it easy for your wife to pretend she doesn't know about them.

Now, down in Egypt the nobles can have multiple wives, but unless you plan to move there that doesn't do you any good.

 

[fitzgerald]

@ShaperV

Does Dominic know if the Czene family have second / third sons who are un married?

Mostly to point out to Chezna that if Grandfather can snag an alliance with the Czenes that way

 

[Walkir]

So courting them all is at the very least harder than it would be if a few wifes were allowed... now we need to tell all but one they'd be a mistress, which can't be very helpful. Thanks.

 

[Seventeen]

So courting them all is at the very least harder than it would be if a few wifes were allowed... now we need to tell all but one they'd be a mistress, which can't be very helpful. Thanks.

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Or not everything has to come back to Dominic getting his dick wet. He already has two mistresses, for christ's sake, and you want to add a third who is a noblewoman. Can't give you people a fucking inch.

 

[Walkir]

Or not everything has to come back to Dominic getting his dick wet. He already has two mistresses, for christ's sake, and you want to add a third who is a noblewoman. Can't give you people a fucking inch.

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I voted for bantering a little and not courting any of the two. Would have considered changing that if Shaper's answer would have been different, but right now?
Not a good option. making a noble a mistress probably is a fauxpas anyway.

 

[Arkeus]

Not a good option. making a noble a mistress probably is a fauxpas anyway.

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It's not just a faux pas, it enters into the realm of "your mistress kids are going to be killed off by your wife's because they can possibly inherit if your wife's kid don't survive". In Feudal you somehow can't have peasant bastard inherit, but bastards from nobles can, and that's the kind of thing that create wars between the different families.

Or not everything has to come back to Dominic getting his dick wet. He already has two mistresses, for christ's sake, and you want to add a third who is a noblewoman. Can't give you people a fucking inch.

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What sorta annoyed me is that this proved the whole "having mistresses make you seem like a kid" right as Dominic can't actually be a week away without having his mental abilities impaired. There are reasons in real life that even societies like India where having multiple wives was not illegal usually had a religion that went "but if you have them you can't be considered an adult".

 

[Walkir]

Point on the inheritance issue.

What sorta annoyed me is that this proved the whole "having mistresses make you seem like a kid" right as Dominic can't actually be a week away without having his mental abilities impaired.

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Yeah, that one is a real problem.

Well, doing a good job as a ruler is the most important thing as far as I'm concerned here.

 

[Robotninja]

What sorta annoyed me is that this proved the whole "having mistresses make you seem like a kid" right as Dominic can't actually be a week away without having his mental abilities impaired. There are reasons in real life that even societies like India where having multiple wives was not illegal usually had a religion that went "but if you have them you can't be considered an adult".

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Dude, missing your lovers doesn't make you a child. Especially when you are with two hot girls who are flirting with you, but you can't sleep with them without severe consequences.

 

[Arkeus]

Dude, missing your lovers doesn't make you a child. Especially when you are with two hot girls who are flirting with you, but you can't sleep with them without severe consequences.

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Missing your lovers enough so that after a single week away you are ready to consider provoking a war against a superior military just so you can have some booty is, in fact, how a kid act.

Now, i am not saying that "getting some booty" is the only reason that Dominic was considering it but it was one of the key factor: notice how Dominic had repeatedly come back to how he missed his mistresses? Given how those mistresses are just there for sex and feeling good about ourself, the reason why he was missing them is obvious.

OTOH, yes, Dominic is young, and catching this now means we either can find a way to take a mistress with us in our longer travels so that we aren't so easily influenced or else learn some restraint.

But it was the act of someone who doesn't have much maturity (though if i am honest it's likely this is the first time Dominic can be as free with mistresses as he currently is, so him being overwhelmed is also enhanced by the novelty).

 

[Walkir]

Another aspect is that dealing with the mistresses is relatively politics-free (at least the kind of politics courting noblewomen involves), while Chesna and Ezti are the exact opposite of that.

 

[ShaperV]

It's not just a faux pas, it enters into the realm of "your mistress kids are going to be killed off by your wife's because they can possibly inherit if your wife's kid don't survive". In Feudal you somehow can't have peasant bastard inherit, but bastards from nobles can, and that's the kind of thing that create wars between the different families.

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Correct.

What sorta annoyed me is that this proved the whole "having mistresses make you seem like a kid" right as Dominic can't actually be a week away without having his mental abilities impaired.

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If Dominic had been celibate all winter this problem would be much, much worse. It's not that he can't go a week without sex, it's that he has two hot girls flirting with him constantly and can't do anything about it.

There are reasons in real life that even societies like India where having multiple wives was not illegal usually had a religion that went "but if you have them you can't be considered an adult".

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No they don't - you're tying to project your own values onto foreign cultures again, instead of accepting that they actually have different beliefs than your own. In cultures where multiple wives are allowed for the upper classes the local religion almost always supports and justifies the practice instead of undermining it. It wasn't some rare aberration, it was the norm for every adult male with the required social status.

Now of course it doesn't work that way in Borjeria, because things would be too easy if you could just load up on Charm and marry all the girls. But this mistresses = childlike thing only exists in your own mind - that's not a thought that would occur to anyone in this society. You might as well try to tell an American that seeking social equality is evil (which most Borjerians would believe).

 

[ShaperV]

April Events Pt 4

[X] Encourage their interest without letting things go too far, and draw them both into political scheming with you.

Getting both girls to open up enough to brainstorm with you is a bit delicate, especially since they're potential rivals. But your newly improved social skills prove equal to the task, and soon the three of you are chatting amiably about all the many and varied shapes the future could take.

You get a definite sense that the girls want to remain friends and allies in the future, but aren't sure if political realities will allow that. Chesna turns out to have quite a devious streak, although inexperience makes her prone to suggesting crazy schemes that are too complicated to actually work. Ezti is a lot more straightforward, but she has a good head for the military and economic realities of the local power struggles.

One significant tidbit you learn here is that Baron Timis was a good friend of the current Baron Rogatica's father, and seems to think well of the current Baron Rogatica. Ezti doesn't think he'd go so far as to help with an invasion of Kiscun (since there'd be nothing in it for him), but if Rogatica was attacked or a general war broke out they'd probably be allies.

Then your pleasant intrigue is interrupted.

It's around midmorning on the third day of your trip, and you're working your way down the bank of the Sava through a big patch of fairly dense woods. You have two of your men at arms, two of Ezti's and one of Chesna's with you, with the rest of the party circling around with the horses to meet you a few miles east of Tamasi. Everything seems fine until you come across some odd marks on the riverbank.

You pause and look at the wide patches of buddy, trampled grass. Something about this looks familiar, but you can't quite place it.

Chesna is looking at some songbirds in a nearby tree, and doesn't even notice. Ezti comes up beside you, follows your gaze,and frowns.

"Boats?" She says. "Who would be dragging boats ashore in a place like this?"

Before you can respon an arrow hisses past you to plant itself in the ground at your feet, and a voice calls from the woods.

"Hands in the air, lords and ladies! Stand and deliver!"

Bandits or pirates. Doesn't much matter which. You take a split second to sweep the treeline with your gaze, and pick out a dozen or so men armed with a motley assortment of hunting bows, clubs and crude spears. In this terrain there could easily be another dozen of them you don't see, and that's too many.

Chesna is stumbling back with a confused gasp. Ezti sized up the situation in a heartbeat, and looks to you for direction. What do you do?

[ ] Bandits are a cowardly lot. Lead a charge into their midst and cut them down - they'll break and run as soon as they start taking losses.
- Throw some obvious fire magic around to help create a panic
[ ] You can't risk the ladies. Have Ezti's escort get them out of here, while you lead a diversionary charge with the rest of the men. You can break through and escape once the girls are safe.
[ ] There are too many to fight. Run.
[ ] Try to talk your way out of this. Give them a little money and they probably won't risk a fight.
[ ] Surrender. They wouldn't dare harm a noble, would they?
[ ] Write In