General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[Gereh]

I guess the most interesting thing to explore would be vampires since they're more-or-less theologically tied to the Abrihamic faiths.

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There are also Demons, as in actually fallen angels.

I don't know enough about trench crusade to say how they would best fit in.

 

[Nervaqus987]

And the blood of Vatsyayan preserved with tremere blood magic. That is the guy who wrote the Kama Sutra....in the 100s. When tremere was born in at least 500 CE. The writers here spent the time on google to look up the authors name but not even glance at the timeline.

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Vampire Date Idea: After informing your lover that there's no way the blood of Vatsyayan they got you as a gift is actually real, the two of you track down the person who scammed them and pull them apart like a wish bone.

 

[Lorsïthrorung]

There are also Demons, as in actually fallen angels.

I don't know enough about trench crusade to say how they would best fit in.

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I have the opposite issue because I know nothing of Demon: The Fallen.

I'm mostly going off of Werewolf and Vampire, and I think the point of divergence is far back enough that most Mage/Hunter organizations are unrecognizable if they develop at all.

 

[vighzs]

I have the opposite issue because I know nothing of Demon: The Fallen.

I'm mostly going off of Werewolf and Vampire, and I think the point of divergence is far back enough that most Mage/Hunter organizations are unrecognizable if they develop at all.

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I must admit I am not the most knowledgable individual when it comes to WoD timeline, chances are some of the things I mentioned might not even apply (Anarachs were a result of the 20th century I think, but chances are splinter groups similiart to them existed prior).

If someone is more well versed in timeline comparisons feel free to correct things, and should they require the TC currently public WIP timeline:

1099 – First Crusade captures Jerusalem. The Knights
Templar commit the Act of Ultimate Heresy. The Gate
of Hell is opened on Earth and Jerusalem is destroyed in
the cataclysm.

1101 – The Year of Three Battles. Heretics, reinforced
by the armies of the Third Circle of Hell, conquer most
of the Levant.

1102 – The ancient city of Antioch is fortified and
becomes the focal point of resistance against the forces
of Hell.

1106 – Cobar becomes the First Tyrant of the Sixty-six.

1109 – The Great Sultanate of the Invincible Iron Wall
of the Two Horns That Pierce the Sky is formed. In the
coming decades it unifies the Islamic factions. The Great
Iron Wall of Iskandar re-emerges and is fortified against
the Heretics.

1117 – The legendary Seventeen Martyrs travel to
the Earthly Domains of Hell to convert the Heretics.
Captured, tortured and kept in a perpetual state of
agony, they remain trapped within white-hot Brazen
Bulls to this day.

1165 – The Old Man in the Mountain and his
Hashashins defend the mountain fortress of Alamut.
The castle stands to this very day, despite being besieged
for hundreds of years.

1215-1306 – The Wars of Triclavianism. The Church
is split and fights a fierce internal conflict. Heretic
domains extend as the faithful fight against each other.
Millions perish by sword and fire.

1346-1353 – Beelzebub unleashes the Black Grail.
Tens of millions are infected, becoming metastatic
vessels in the worst plague in the history of mankind.
The Corpse Wars begin.

1429 – Living Saint Jeanne d'Arc drives the Black
Grail from mainland Europe.

1477 – The City of Argos is taken by God and it is no
more.

1503 – War Prophet Angelos, guided by St. Elegius,
discovers the formula of Orichalcum Steel. Though
extremely costly to produce, the metal proves to be
effective against all missile weapons and is still used to
this day.

1545 – Antioch destroyed utterly by a mysterious
infernal weapon
.
1573 – Sacred Order of the Dragon halts the heretic
advance after the destruction of Byzantium. A million
heretics impaled in the hills of Wallachia.

1595 – Walls of New Antioch completed.

1666 – The Year of Six Woes. In a surprise raid, the
newly created Heretic fleet captures Gibraltar. The sea
fortress becomes the Heretic base of operations against
Europe. Forces of Hell gain access to the Atlantic.

1670 – Due to the constant coastal raids by the Heretic
Fleet the Crown of England begins the construction of
the Fortress of the White Cliffs.

1703 – Against all odds, a small force of Hebrew
Knights striking from their secret fortress destroy the
Templar stronghold at Acre.

1805 – Heretic fleet under the command of High
Captain Ranga defeats the fleet of England in the
Battle of the Bloodied Cliffs. Admiral Nelson is slain in
combat.

1866 – In the utmost secrecy Heretic scientists, aided
by the Demon Marbas, construct the first modern
submarines.

1870 – Launched from Gibraltar, the Heretic
submarine fleets extract a heavy toll on the merchant
navies. Widespread famine ensued.

1872 – Heretic forces storm the city of Rijeka. It is
fortified and Heretic conquest is launched against the
European mainland.

1894 – The Year of Broken Trinity. The Death
Commandos simultaneously assassinate the Supreme
Pontiff, the High Prophetess Aelia and the Holy Roman
Emperor. The faithful are thrown into turmoil. The
Heretic Legions, commanded by Hell's nobles of the
Seventh Circle and a huge vanguard of tanks launch
a simultaneous lightning offensive in the Levant and
Europe.

1899 – Church Space Program commences.

1907 – The construction of the moving fortress of
Britannia is completed.

1910 – Battle of Cordoba. A Bloody stalemate. Heretic
artillery devastates the ancient city, but the Heretic
forces fail to gain access to the heartlands of Hispania.

1914 – The present day. Both sides are preparing for
major offensive operations. In the huge swathes of No
Man's Land furious skirmishes and raids increase in
intensity as the faithful and heretics vie for information,
powerful relics and securing strategically important
positions.

 

[shadowdice]

Vampire Date Idea: After informing your lover that there's no way the blood of Vatsyayan they got you as a gift is actually real, the two of you track down the person who scammed them and pull them apart like a wish bone.

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That would honestly be funny

If they had just said Danava or even Assamite it would have made sense but the author is probably just shit at both google and vampire lore

 

[Gereh]

I have the opposite issue because I know nothing of Demon: The Fallen.

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Basic rundown (from the top of my head):
- When Lucifer rebelled he and his fellows did go to earth and ruled there for a bit.
- Caine discovered, nobody liked that
- Fucked up things happen behind lucifers back
- Angels still loyal to god come down and kick lucifers and his guys ass
- Lucifer and go get banned from reality into the Abyss(?)

Oh wait Lucifer isn't there? Turns out Lucifer is still on earth but all his friends got banned out of reality

Time passes...

- Lucifer convinces humans to build effigys and summon his generals back to earth, but oh no they are corrupted by the abyss and are no evil (and kinda OP)
- The earthbound (which is what those summoned demons are called) start doing shit, one of them get control of ancient rome
- Lucifer helps with the creation of christianity to kick the earthbound in control of Rome out

Jump cut to modern times

the remaining fallen angel still in the abyss get slowly out (no one is really sure why) and get back onto earth, but since they don't have bodies they need to posses humans. Oh and they are also super confused, because "where the fuck are the angels?" and "heaven?", nobody really knows. So now they have to find their way in a world that doesn't make sense to them anymore.

 

[Nervaqus987]

no one is really sure why

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???

The Sixth Great Maelstrom cracked the Abyss, which is letting demons wiggle their way through the cracks.

Pretty sure that's laid out in the Demon core book.

 

[Lorsïthrorung]

My mindset is on pondering which werewolf tribes and/or subfactions would stay in Europe, flee to the Americas, or stuck in central Asia after the Act of Ultimate Heresy.

Assuming that the only Kinfolk are Norsemen and celtic slaves they dragged onto the New World in smaller but still gradual numbers over a long period as they settle along the East coast. Followed by other tribes who fled just to get away from the Eternal Crusade, Kinfolk or not.

Meanwhile in the old world, I'd assume a Levant equivalent of the Black Spiral Dancers on demon steroids are the result of werewolves caught in ground zero. Although I don't know the actual size of Hell claimed territory other than it being the Middle East and North Africa. Hence why the bulk of Muslims fighting them are turks, with the support of surviving Arab Guerrillas followed by every other periphery peoples in the Sultanate's sphere of influence, except maybe Iberia which I think never had a Reconquesta.

Edit:
My assumptions are:
The Shadow Lords are stuck in the frontlines and don't participate in the colonization of the New World since that happens centuries earlier and they likely don't get traumatized by Vlad who's too busy impaling literal demons.
Glass Walkers are in a similar situation but have likely severed themselves from Gaia in favor of the Weaver, whether it be in the form of Deus or Allah-Tanrı.
Get of Fenris feel fear for once and colonize the New World early. Their kinfolk have surprisingly warm relations with the inuit in contrast to literally everyone, much to Wendigo's confusion.
Black Furies have a split with the majority traveling to the New World, seeing humanity a lost cause. Incidentally being responsible for a foundational Allthing decision resulting in female slaves being the responsibility of wives, which nobody will ever let them live down.
Fianna are sort of dragged to the New World with half staying in the British Isles. Norse–Gaels get rich off intercontinental trade.
Silver Fangs had a more even split with many staying in Russia while those in the lost-cause camp fled to the New World to claim the young coastal cities and fill the niche that the Shadow Lords and Glass Walkers cannot due to being stuck on the Old World.
Bone Gnawers are scattered and irrelevant unless you guys have any interesting ideas.
Children of Gaia got completely demoralized and fled to the New World. They're the Sad Puppy Party.
Silent Striders are split between those serving the Iron Caliphate and those who fled further east.
Red Talons flee to the New World in a humiliated state, others flee east to the steppe.

Overall the American East coast and Caribbean are full of werewolves hoping to keep out Demonic influence while living in an iron age society where everyone suffers from mild alcoholism and their kinfolk are experiencing a golden age monopolizing shipping all over the Western Hemisphere, with only the occasional demonic incursion.

I honestly don't know if the sharing of Kinfolk is a thing. All I assume is they compromise with the adoption of norse-descended groups across the East Coast since there's a lot of them with their own distinct regional sub-cultures from native admixture.

 

[Gereh]

???

The Sixth Great Maelstrom cracked the Abyss, which is letting demons wiggle their way through the cracks.

Pretty sure that's laid out in the Demon core book.

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that sounds about right, kinda had forgot about that. To my defense I was half-asleep already

 

[NightmareWarden]

Vampirism poisons a mage's avatar, as I understand it. But damage isn't necessarily as final as gilgul, the avatar-destroying spell/ritual. The vampire Tremere was once a mage, but became undead. Avatar connection severed. Is his avatar still out there, perhaps it finally picked a human who awakened as a mage after some decades of cycling? Could the avatars which were once connected to still-active Vampires come into play in modern WoD?

I realize the specific details of individual avatars are not necessarily gonna come up in tabletop play. But what seems to be possible here?

 

[shadowdice]

Vampirism poisons a mage's avatar, as I understand it. But damage isn't necessarily as final as gilgul, the avatar-destroying spell/ritual. The vampire Tremere was once a mage, but became undead. Avatar connection severed. Is his avatar still out there, perhaps it finally picked a human who awakened as a mage after some decades of cycling? Could the avatars which were once connected to still-active Vampires come into play in modern WoD?

I realize the specific details of individual avatars are not necessarily gonna come up in tabletop play. But what seems to be possible here?

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It depends on if it is one avatar per person and it is part of their soul or not

I've had it be that the avatars of awakened mages that go vampire become separate entities that really hate their original self and try to get it killed

 

[NightmareWarden]

It depends on if it is one avatar per person and it is part of their soul or not

I've had it be that the avatars of awakened mages that go vampire become separate entities that really hate their original self and try to get it killed

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What kind of entity? A statted creature, or…?

 

[shadowdice]

What kind of entity? A statted creature, or…?

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This is not a canon thing

I had an avatar possess a clone (magic is weird) to actively antagonize the original that became a vampire

Tremere Vampire: Your Avatar Spirit is actively trying to murder you because your wife is still in love with you after you became a vampire. And it feels cuckholded

Ancient PreHistory Blood Mage: Lilith is attempting to kill Caine and cause an apocalypse because God kicked her out of his ass and cursed her to never be able to find love so she is going after the Ex that she can actually kill.

Tremere Vampire: Fair point

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I will be making a Chronicles of Darkness/FGO fanfic soon, but I am not sure if I should post it to QQ; I'll show you why here:

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Summary: Kirschtachia Wodime is reborn in a world where Magic Circuits and Magecraft do not exist, but the Supernatural does anyway. Everything he knew did not apply, yet he still sought to help the world. Then, he woke up to two things: The truth behind this Reality… And how people think the one he came from is a work of fiction. Now he is part of a group of Mages who seek to help Humanity reach 'Mass Awakening', but whose methods go even below his lowered standards, and he is not entirely happy with this.

This raises one important question - Whose destiny had been swapped with his? And is that person now wreaking havoc in his native universe?

A Chronicles of Darkness (Mage the Awakening) + Fate/Grand Order crossover; yes, in that order. This will be a one-shot or a short story, unless I have the time and inspiration to extend it.

Note: Just so you guys know, if there is any romance here, Caenis will be Caenus, his male form. If you guys complain about it, just don't post here.

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Will I be harrassed if I do post the fic on QQ SFW (and maybe NSFW if I write sex scenes)?

 

[Sydonai]

the remaining fallen angel still in the abyss get slowly out (no one is really sure why) and get back onto earth, but since they don't have bodies they need to posses humans. Oh and they are also super confused, because "where the fuck are the angels?" and "heaven?", nobody really knows. So now they have to find their way in a world that doesn't make sense to them anymore.

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Also IIRC the reason why God isn't around anymore is because he threw the world's largest bitch-fit and left, but not before kicking Time as hard as he could apparently purely to spite the ones he originally put in charge of it, which is why the answer to any multiple-choice question about the World Of Darkness' past is "D; All Of The Above".

 

[Sol Mark-1]

Ugh. There are idiots in SB who think the Get of Fenris are the worst tribe towards humanity, completely forgetting that The Blood Talons are way worse.

Fuck W5.

 

[heralding_bubble]

Actually LOST was set in World of Darkness

 

[shadowdice]

Ugh. There are idiots in SB who think the Get of Fenris are the worst tribe towards humanity, completely forgetting that The Blood Talons are way worse.

Fuck W5.

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People will look at Fenris and only ever actually think of the worst subset of players instead of the actual lore

And yes fuck W5

 

[Gereh]

Ugh. There are idiots in SB who think the Get of Fenris are the worst tribe towards humanity, completely forgetting that The Blood Talons are way worse.

Fuck W5.

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You mean "red talons" (blood talons is from WtF not WtA)? Because yeah, you can't get worse then "kill them all".

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Red Talons are also overlooked or forgotten by most STs, too, right? With some banning them as player character options?

 

[shadowdice]

Just off the top of my head

Red Talons: We are the purest born werewolves with pure WOLF heritage that did nothing wrong

Werebears: Want to give back our sacred lands

Red Talons: No human apologist

Black Furies: We are the best and only male Metis are allowed despite being men (werewolf has weird lore with Bellephoron castrating Pegasus out of fear which I do not find anywhere outside of white wolf which made Pegasus say FUCK ALL MEN)

Silver Fangs: We are the most pure bred of all werewolves and duty bound to rule over werewolves because we are the best

Werewolf 5th Edition: The Get of Fenris are the worst

 

[Sol Mark-1]

I remember that the Red Talons had ritual where they tortured humans to death to restore the enviroment. The ritual made the spirits that lived there to leave in disgust.

 

[shadowdice]

I made a world of darkness quest

The players decided to be a Tzimisce scientist (the normal kind) in Tokyo

https://forum.questionablequesting.com/threads/vampirism-is-an-improvement-sometimes-vtm-world-of-darkness.31500/#post-10030346

 

[Rakdos92]

Tzimisce scientist (the normal kind)

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... oh, you mean like "Results have to be reproductible, otherwise something is wrong and requires further testing" normal?

 

[shadowdice]

... oh, you mean like "Results have to be reproductible, otherwise something is wrong and requires further testing" normal?

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yes

Science and Technology based scientist.

I made several character sheets for them to choose from and they chose one that has neither Craft nor Occult. They are leaning hard into INT 5 (medicine is at 1)'

I am surprised they went with that one when three of the pregens actually did have crafting as a skill.

(Pregen Builds were Scientist, Mercenary Combat Savant, Secret Police/Spy, Psychic Investigator, Criminal Financier, and Student Athlete with a degree in the Arts)

 

[Rakdos92]

I remember that the Red Talons had ritual where they tortured humans to death to restore the enviroment. The ritual made the spirits that lived there to leave in disgust.

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Imagine the wolves being all estatic over the forest restoring itself, and then the spirits go "... Fuck you. I hate you" before leaving. They probably doubled down on the human sacrifice because clearly the inhuman spirits were offended by the lack of sacrifices.

 

[shadowdice]

on an unrelated note. When ignoring the Kuei-Jin, there are a few lines of vampires that we know are involved in east asia

Gangrel. The Anda bloodline were Mongols and other Nomadic peoples that were highly involved in the Golden Horde (which would allow them to sweep through Russia, china, the Korean Peninsula, and sort of Japan as they did make landfall at one point if I remember right. If not, well Gangrel do have their sea variant

Assamites, would at least be able to get into China due to the demographics they tend to hide amongst

the Daitya (Setite bloodline that dropped Set more or less), Brahman (Potentially original Ravnos) and Danava (Possible original Ventrue also have blood sorcery in clan) were highly tied to the Hindu castes but would likely have members that either converted to buddhism or were buddhist and moved east with missionaries.

Lasombra were pirates and moved on the sea including some that went far east (Shadow Wokou pirates)

Tzimisce were involved in India.

Salubri have the Wu Zao bloodline.

You could easily make a few asian political factions out of these groups without getting into the other more mainline clans.

Additionally, a long time ago there was a prompt on one of the Onyx Path forums which was basically a roll your own story for making up alternative Camarilla, Sabbat, Independent Clan configuration Alt Histories

Spoiler

Camarilla

1. Prominent
2. Numerous
3. No Antitribu
4. Reliable
5. Distrusted
6. Often Anarchs
7. Often Anarchs

Sabbat
All of the above except for Number 3
8. Sabbat
9. Sabbat Only

Independents
10
11
12
13

Outside of main clans one can also put bloodlines into the mix with them potentially being on opposing sides as their original line, in competition in the same group, or possibly having diablerized/killed their originals

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Fate/Swapped Chronicles (Chronicles of Darkness; Mage the Awakening + FGO, in that order!).

Summary: Kirschtachia Wodime is reborn in a world where Magic Circuits and Magecraft do not exist, but the Supernatural does anyway. Everything he knew did not apply, yet he still sought to help the world. Then, he woke up to two things: The truth behind this Reality… And how people think the...

forum.questionablequesting.com

I made a new fanfic; yes, it's relevant.

 

[Ragura]

There are some very good fan expansions for vampires in Asia

https://www.storytellersvault.com/product/435620/Kindred-of-the-East-The-Relentless-Age Kuei-Jin 2.0 (author also has Asian Changelings 2.0)
https://www.storytellersvault.com/product/365369/Kyuuketsuki-The-Fading-Sun Japan
https://www.storytellersvault.com/product/493977/Vampires-of-Wuxi China (author also has Chinese Mages)

 

[shadowdice]

Spoiler: spitballing thoughts on AU for japanese kindred

Iki (Stylish)
Lasombra. Prominent. Had supported Kamakura Shogunate. They are descended from Lasombra pirates that had moved east in the early days of the clan.

Anda (Gangrel) Numerous. Became indebted to the Lasombra after the failed Mongol invasion and were given vessels to feed from. Used to help them prevent the Wu Zao from reclaiming power.

Wu Zao (Salubri). Had supported the Fujiwara, became absorbed into the Lasombra's Faction after the Genpei war. In the current system are the "Right Hand" to the Anda's left. Largely accepted the current status as it lets them focus on attempts to obtain magical knowledge over politics of control

Nagaraja (Considered the Most Reliable) Have a blood feud with the Daitya due to the vampires used to create them being Setites. Had come when fleeing their multiple enemies. The Japanese Nagaraja seek to stamp out any Setite influence (including Daitya) in Japan and some seek to find the Antediluvian Set in an attempt to diablerize him. Dislike the Wu Zao attempting to steal their knowledge and work with the Danava over this.

Danava (Distrusted due to history with the Tzimisce and Daitya. Their elders are largely still Hindu. Are often attempting to have more control over the faction by displacing the Wu Zao. Ventrue bloodline that has Thaumaturgy instead of Dominate). Dislike the Wu Zao attempting to steal their knowledge and work with the Nagaraja over this. Actively attempt to undermine the Ravnos.

Malkavian often join the Wabisabi movement (have Rift instead of Auspex). Have a hatred for the Ravnos over a past slight. Tend to work along well with the Lasombra, have cordial relations with their Toreador "Cousins"

Ravnos Often join Wabisabi movement (Have Auspex instead of Fortitude). Have strained relations with the Danava, Tzimisce, and Daitya. Their enemies run most of the other factions so they are often stuck with the Iki. Elders remember their conflict with the Nagaraja but Ancilla are positioning themselves to rid themselves of the elders alongside the Nagaraja. The Anda prevent this as they want to be the ones to cause problems for the Ravnos.

Miyabi (Refinement)
Tzimisce Prominent (High use of Koldunism) Had originally worked with the Lasombra against the Kuei-Jin and Wu Zao (for stealing items from their havens) but broke the alliance when the Lasombra accepted Wu Zao surrender instead of eradicating thieves. Wish the Nosferatu would join them but know that would cause issues with their Toreador allies. Prefer the alliance with Assamite and Toreador for their improvements to polite culture.

Assamite (Descended from sorcerer caste) Believe the Wu Zao abandoned the Baali War and are consorting with demons (View Kuei-Jin as demons). Have positive relationships with the Daitya and the actual Setites so long as they honor an ancient pact between their Antediluvians to hunt the Baali.

Toreador. Claim Sugawara no Michizane as a tutelary god. Get along well with the Wu Zao and Danava but largely disagree with the Lasombra on embracing more modern customs and artworks.

Wabisabi (Impermanence)
Daitya (Buddhist offshoot of a Hindu Setite offshoot. Have Thaumaturgy instead of Serpentis). Consider Emperor Sutoku as a spiritual founder. Part of their disagreement with the Tzimisce is in their attempts to learn Vicissitude and the Tzimisce ideal of Azi Dahaka. Get along well with the Gangrel due to shared history in China with both supporting the inclusion of foreign artwork.

Nosferatu Have learned necromancy out of clan. Nightshade Path. Twilight Garden. Cenotaph. Often embrace from Burakumin. Originally joined with the Daitya as the clan disregarded buddhist views on impure occupations. Have a great hatred for the Danava going the opposite way in attempts to strictly enforce caste for centuries if not millennia (when including their time in India). Have a positive influence with the Assamite due to sharing information on infernalists.

Ukiyo(Transient World)
Brujah Independent have kai instead of presence. Ronin. Act as either mercenaries or neutral judges for all clans.


"Outsiders"

Namraelites (Celerity, Obfusacte, Praestantia) A new "Bloodline" that appeared in the 17th century to the knowledge of others. They claim descent from a Namrael the Enochite and have a "Second Embrace." They are descended from vampire members of the Midnight Circus that had used a ritual to change their clan to that of the Circus's early leader, but had left it when Apophis made a deal with the Incarna Cara for the worship the carnival generated. They arrived in Japan in the 1600s and were taken with Izumo no Okuni's Kabuki theatre. Due to this they often embrace destitute women to join the clan as actors despite Kabuki having been all male for several centuries. Often hired as assassins. They have a rivalry with the Brujah over their roles in Kindred society. Clan Weakness: They must make a willpower roll to do harm to other Namraelites. And must do so as well break a written contract.

Maeghar. Claim descent from Taira no Masakado (They don't explain how). They often work with the Miyabi faction when the group needs the aid of Necromancers but do not join as they would be relegated to a lesser status as a Bloodline that does not Embrace True.