General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[vighzs]

A lot of it has to do with the choices made by the people who are making the content

V5 opened up with a lot of stupid shit and the stuff that paradox clamped down on didn't make it so they improved the other parts that were shit (looks at blood stained love)

Then what I loosely call video games where a lot of it was stupid, didn't use WoD's actual systems/lore, or were just straight cash grabs

Edit

I had reminded my brother who had originally pre ordered the first version of the game for my birthday Years ago that he might want to check if he got refunded for it (he paused and then checked to realize that it being an entirely new game hadn't resulted in that being refunded already)

I'm not sure if I want to drop money on getting a game to analyze the shit myself for full price or if I should bookmark playthroughs by non shills

Click to shrink...

From what I've seen you won't miss much by only tuning into a 100% no commentary run. If you really want to see it for yourself I'd wait for a deep sale, chances are it will have one in christmas season if not sooner considering it's rather bland if I want to be charitable.

 

[heralding_bubble]

From what I've seen you won't miss much by only tuning into a 100% no commentary run. If you really want to see it for yourself I'd wait for a deep sale, chances are it will have one in christmas season if not sooner considering it's rather bland if I want to be charitable.

Click to shrink...

watch as it's on 2025 Hallowe'en sale

 

[Maragas]

I'm not sure if I want to drop money on getting a game to analyze the shit myself for full price or if I should bookmark playthroughs by non shills

Click to shrink...

You know what, I can do one last thing before I shelve Bloodlines 2 for good. Theorizing what the fuck is happening there with my limited knowledge that I got before softlock.

Fact: Our Elder lost most of his powers. He is marked all over his body.
Fact: Our Elder has his blood written in strange symbols all across the City. Consuming them grant us some XP.
Fact: The symbols even appear on the outside of the elevator of the Prince's Court. Meaning someone needs to be either very sneaky or part of the Camarilla.
Fact: Fabien was the one who found and opened our cask.
Fact: Everyone is going nuts and there is chaos on the streets.
Fact: Anarchs are frenzying everywhere, with moderates not in sight.
Fact: Sheriff is nuts and rogue. Openly says fuck Camarilla and fuck the Prince.
Fact: That Toreador chick was pretty bland when I lied to her that Ventrue Lau was fine, like she was expecting the opposite.

With these I can make some assumptions. We have someone who has access to magical BS, someone that has access to even the Camarilla Court, someone that can use Fabien and someone with a motive, ruin Camarilla in Seattle, to do so.
It could be a Baali. They have access to magic BS and all the weird symbols and marking could be infernal. They are also very sneaky, sneaky enough get into places they shouldn't. But not only V5 is allergic to them until recently but it doesn't explain how Fabien got involved.
It could be a Tremere. They are primarily made out of magic BS. They are part of the Camarilla, which can cover the elevator and why Fabien was involved. But what is the motive? And who is it? Ventrue Lau told us that there is no chantry here. Is it Sofia? She knew of us but everyone we met knew of us. So that's not it either. Tremere Antitribu then? But Sabbat mostly fucked off to the Middle East.
It could be an Assamite. They have magic BS, stealth BS for Camarilla access for elevator mark and Fabien involvement but still...what is their motive? Are they Ur-Shulgi follower who hates Camarilla? Sabbat Assamite? Personal vendetta?

Whoever it is, they are probably behind all the Anarch nonsense and there is a decent possibility that they are working with that Toreador Progenitor. I don't know why Sheriff is nuts but perhaps he is a neutral party after he lost his Prince and hates the new one? They will be doing a grand ritual using our lost Elder powers
So no conclusive answer but hey, I think this is a pretty good estimate from someone who stopped playing after the first night.

 

[shadowdice]

You know what, I can do one last thing before I shelve Bloodlines 2 for good. Theorizing what the fuck is happening there with my limited knowledge that I got before softlock.

Fact: Our Elder lost most of his powers. He is marked all over his body.
Fact: Our Elder has his blood written in strange symbols all across the City. Consuming them grant us some XP.
Fact: The symbols even appear on the outside of the elevator of the Prince's Court. Meaning someone needs to be either very sneaky or part of the Camarilla.
Fact: Fabien was the one who found and opened out cask.
Fact: Everyone is going nuts and there is chaos on the streets.
Fact: Anarchs are frenzying everywhere, with moderates not in sight.
Fact: Sheriff is nuts and rogue. Openly says fuck Camarilla and fuck the Prince.
Fact: That Toreador chick was pretty bland when I lied to her that Ventrue Lau was fine, like she was expecting the opposite.

With these I can make some assumptions. We have someone who has access to magical BS, someone that has access to even the Camarilla Court, someone that can use Fabien and someone with a motive, ruin Camarilla in Seattle, to do so.
It could be a Baali. They have access to magic BS and all the weird symbols and marking could be infernal. They are also very sneaky, sneaky enough get into places they shouldn't. But not only V5 is allergic to them until recently but it doesn't explain how Fabien got involved.
It could be a Tremere. They are primarily made out of magic BS. They are part of the Camarilla, which can cover the elevator and why Fabien was involved. But what is the motive? And who is it? Ventrue Lau told us that there is no chantry here. Is it Sofia? She knew of us but everyone we met knew of us. So that's not it either. Tremere Antitribu then? But Sabbat mostly fucked off to the Middle East.
It could be an Assamite. They have magic BS, stealth BS for Camarilla access for elevator mark and Fabien involvement but still...what is their motive? Are they Ur-Shulgi follower who hates Camarilla? Sabbat Assamite? Personal vendetta?

Whoever it is, they are probably behind all the Anarch nonsense and there is a decent possibility that they are working with that Toreador Progenitor. I don't know why Sheriff is nuts but perhaps he is a neutral party after he lost his Prince and hates the new one? They will be doing a grand ritual using our lost Elder powers
So no conclusive answer but hey, I think this is a pretty good estimate from someone who stopped playing after the first night.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

it is Sophia

 

[Maragas]

Spoiler

it is Sophia

Click to shrink...

Really?
I thought it was weird that she was like, marshmallow puff, when everyone else in the entire City is arrogant as fuck against us. Especially as Tremere, guys who are mostly cold, logical and usually amoral. But I put it aside since Nosferatu Tolly is also weird

 

[shadowdice]

Really?
I thought it was weird that she was like, marshmallow puff, when everyone else in the entire City is arrogant as fuck against us. Especially as Tremere, guys who are mostly cold, logical and usually amoral. But I put it aside since Nosferatu Tolly is also weird

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

yup her

I had her pegged because she was the one attractive woman to me several hours in, being nice, and immediately mentioning your name after people were talking about the dead prince

 

[NoFunposter]

clearly something happened if so many childe have room temperature IQ)

Click to shrink...

>The younger kindred are coming down with "Brainrot" from all the Micro-plastics Pentex has put in the Kine's blood.

 

[shadowdice]

As it turns out my brother wasn't able to get the preorder of the hardsuit labs version refunded so I have the game

…shall I suffer for others?

 

[Vague Wanderer]

I mean wasn't the "get inspired > use inspired to boost a roll > get inspired from said roll > use inspired to boost a roll > get inspired from said roll > etc" cycle a thing too?

Click to shrink...

Definitely, though the suggested fix to that is to simply let the GM pick the condition the Exceptional success grants after the first loop. Otherwise you just end up with the whole table annoyed at that one guy.

Since most of my tables would heavily frown against this as it would be considered "meta-gaming" outside of scenes that were specifically Mage "training on dispelling".

But in general it would say it would land in the same category as end of session "beats" or why tend to not NPC's to not gain any new powers in the time it takes your Mage to go from 3 dots up to 5. There are ways to explain that away (my favourite is that those characters have stagnated and have hit a bottleneck in their development) but first and foremost it's just a gameplay artefact.

P.S. I'm not sure what you mean by "normal" Mage (beside it being a fun oxymoron), but I assume you talk about the "rivals" section in "Nameless and Accursed".

Click to shrink...

Yeah, most of the established Mages described in the Rivals section are like Gnosis 3-5. It seems to be the typical range for a "normal" Mage (which yeah, kind of an oxymoron) with Gnosis 6 generally seeming to be the peak outside of the occasional Hierarch or hermit who's dedicated himself to being a monster. Which makes sense I suppose - that's pretty capable, and it's easy to imagine someone in that position getting "comfortable" and not pushing their limits, and not advancing further.

But it does kind of raise the question of how quickly most mages actually reach that point. Technically, a character can start with Gnosis 3 if they spend all their Merit dots, which suggests it's possible to hit with single minded determination over the course of a few months. Maybe just call it 10 XP in 10 weeks for the sake of simplicity?

Obviously, this wouldn't really matter in a normal Mage game, because training in downtime just isn't really a thing in Mage typically. But I've been musing over running a Mage quest, and the question of beat farming would likely come up, especially as I've had a few ideas for Legacies with Attainments focused on beat farming. So I'm just trying to figure out a framework where that can be helpful, but not so game breaking that everyone else has to be an idiot not to do it.

 

[Rakdos92]

But overtime, I lost my enthusiasm for it. Right now, though? It is at its lowest. I wasn't kidding when I said this game made me sad.

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry, man. Losing one's enthusiasm for a franchise is never fun.

 

[shadowdice]

playing the game as I got it for free

We see rats in the start and are not allowed to be a rat sucker. I need to directly interact with and press E on the door next to the police and be told not to open it because there are police there instead of having a single braincell necessary to realize that would have been a bad idea. The ghouls are openly tagging everything in the building to say they are ghouls.

Why is it that I am forced to go through multiple combat segments when looking for the body instead of going around the buildings to see if Fabien left it. I also have no idea how Fabien's body isn't ashes either from the about hundred years he spent dead or the body's exposure to sunlight over the time since his death

for some reason the hunting mechanic is to find randomly generated people in heightened states of emotion and draw them into an alley. You don't talk to them or anything. I interacted with one who immediately tried to hit me and so when I dodged a cop noticed and immediately shot him twice in the head before leaving him in the snow to bleed out. In Seattle

 

[Maragas]

Have fun, hopefully more than I did.

 

[shadowdice]

Have fun, hopefully more than I did.

Click to shrink...

I'm not

it is a first person combat game without a block button, only a dodge button where you cannot use melee or ranged weapons despite all the climbing mechanics which make it seem like you should be able to do more than use telekinesis to throw shit. I am repeatedly put into close combat with anarchs and don't have dialogue options to get around direct combat but am only able to use a power once per three feedings, making it so THIN BLOODS are using powers more often than I am. It also keeps sending hordes at me so I am looking at this feeling like I should have a block button or third person perspective to keep track of everything that is on screen.

edit

After fighting my way through all the thin bloods and ghouls (which would require a lot of blood) I come to see Ryong who dominates somebody (I think a thin blood) and she just kills her instead of blood bonding her to have an anarch under her control.

 

[Maragas]

I'm not

it is a first person combat game without a block button, only a dodge button where you cannot use melee or ranged weapons despite all the climbing mechanics which make it seem like you should be able to do more than use telekinesis to throw shit. I am repeatedly put into close combat with anarchs and don't have dialogue options to get around direct combat but am only able to use a power once per three feedings, making it so THIN BLOODS are using powers more often than I am. It also keeps sending hordes at me so I am looking at this feeling like I should have a block button or third person perspective to keep track of everything that is on screen.

edit

After fighting my way through all the thin bloods and ghouls (which would require a lot of blood) I come to see Ryong who dominates somebody (I think a thin blood) and she just kills her instead of blood bonding her to have an anarch under her control.

Click to shrink...

You can use your dodge/dash to parry and there is a kick option and thats it. Unfortunately there is no way to upgrade your damage. Because we don't have any stats or abilities to increase.

 

[shadowdice]

You can use your dodge/dash to parry and there is a kick option and thats it. Unfortunately there is no way to upgrade your damage. Because we don't have any stats or abilities to increase.

Click to shrink...

it is not well made as a social game, nor as a detective game, nor as a combat game. It is visually appealing I guess but that is it.

 

[Rakdos92]

it is not well made as a social game, nor as a detective game, nor as a combat game. It is visually appealing I guess but that is it.

Click to shrink...

It's an embarassment to the legacy of the first game. Jesus, how can freaking LaCroix be a better Prince than this literally-who?

 

[shadowdice]

It's an embarassment to the legacy of the first game. Jesus, how can freaking LaCroix be a better Prince than this literally-who?

Click to shrink...

there are multiple levels to it

LaCroix does things. The plot moves and changes due to what he does even if he is sending you to do his dirty work.

Ryong is not really the prince. She is a figurehead that fails to even be a figurehead because her Sire Lou, who is...a like brothel owner from the 1880s to 1903, openly just has her childer take the title of prince while having to listen to her in everything so everyone knows they are figureheads for her instead of being an actual master in the shadows. So there are multiple levels of fuck up here.

Additionally. LaCroix was embraces somewhere around 1800 or something so he was 200 years old before he became a prince. Lou is shown as the prince of Seattle in the 1920s. Meaning she (Lou) was embraced in 1903 and became prince within 17 years without seemingly being that low in generation. She also appears to be an established prince in this point which does not fit that either. Lou was a Neonate when she became a prince without any of the Bullshit murderblender powers that the proper VTMB Protagonist had to justify asking for the position at the end of the camarilla route (which is not you know, confirmed as a thing that would even happen in that route).

So LaCroix is a vampire whose backstory makes sense for the position he is in and how the story treats him. Ryong and her sire...just don't make fucking sense.

 

[Maragas]

Basically, LaCroix even if he is way over his head, actually functions as a Prince.

People listen to him, he does things, he has considerable force, he literally has a private army, his Sheriff is powerful and loyal to him (or at least dominated enough) and his position is stable as Kuei-jin kept in check and Anarchs kept in line until Caine and Jack fuck things up.

If you somehow put LaCroix and his resources in place of Ryong and Ryong and her resources into LaCroix position; LaCroix would stabilize the situation immediately thanks to his own powers, resources, army and Sheriff while Ryong most likely dies to either Keui-jin or Smiling Jack the second night, if she isn't overthrown by the Court in the first night.

 

[shadowdice]

Basically, LaCroix even if he is way over his head, actually functions as a Prince.

People listen to him, he does things, he has considerable force, he literally has a private army, his Sheriff is powerful and loyal to him (or at least dominated enough) and his position is stable as Kuei-jin kept in check and Anarchs kept in line until Caine and Jack fuck things up.

If you somehow put LaCroix and his resources in place of Ryong and Ryong and her resources into LaCroix position; LaCroix would stabilize the situation immediately thanks to his own powers, resources, army and Sheriff while Ryong most likely dies to either Keui-jin or Smiling Jack the second night, if she isn't overthrown by the Court in the first night.

Click to shrink...

Lou's previous figurehead, and lou by proxy, GAVE the anarchs control of all the thin bloods while also branding them all, which would make it so the thin bloods would all hate the camarilla.

In addition to the branding (especially on the face as many are) being BATSHIT INSANE when you are trying to be a secret society

 

[vighzs]

Lou's previous figurehead, and lou by proxy, GAVE the anarchs control of all the thin bloods while also branding them all, which would make it so the thin bloods would all hate the camarilla.

In addition to the branding (especially on the face as many are) being BATSHIT INSANE when you are trying to be a secret society

Click to shrink...

I'm not

it is a first person combat game without a block button, only a dodge button where you cannot use melee or ranged weapons despite all the climbing mechanics which make it seem like you should be able to do more than use telekinesis to throw shit. I am repeatedly put into close combat with anarchs and don't have dialogue options to get around direct combat but am only able to use a power once per three feedings, making it so THIN BLOODS are using powers more often than I am. It also keeps sending hordes at me so I am looking at this feeling like I should have a block button or third person perspective to keep track of everything that is on screen.

edit

After fighting my way through all the thin bloods and ghouls (which would require a lot of blood) I come to see Ryong who dominates somebody (I think a thin blood) and she just kills her instead of blood bonding her to have an anarch under her control.

Click to shrink...

it is not well made as a social game, nor as a detective game, nor as a combat game. It is visually appealing I guess but that is it.

Click to shrink...

....

At this point I feel like it should be mandatory that if you are developing a sequel or a game based off on an already existing franchise you must:

1. Play the bloody previous game
2. Read the source material
3. If it's a TTRPG at least play the fucking quick-starter or a one shot

Because this is just sad and/or pathetic.

Thank you, it is my fault for giving it a chance.
...
You know, I started these SB and QQ General World of Darkness Discussion Threads in 2021 because I genuinely wanted a place to discuss WoD and try to make it more popular while giving newbie/starters a base to go from with my informative threadmarks.
But overtime, I lost my enthusiasm for it. Right now, though? It is at its lowest. I wasn't kidding when I said this game made me sad.

Click to shrink...

I am sorry you had to go trough that.I understand how you feel as AoS Soulbounds Champions of Chaos elicited a similiar response from me after I properly read it.

My advice is to either look into something else for a while or go back to the roots of the setting and hope nostalgia rekindles the passion.

But no matter what you choose know this thread probably helped a lot of newbies and grognards in some shape or form.

 

[Rakdos92]

Basically, LaCroix even if he is way over his head, actually functions as a Prince.

People listen to him, he does things, he has considerable force, he literally has a private army, his Sheriff is powerful and loyal to him (or at least dominated enough) and his position is stable as Kuei-jin kept in check and Anarchs kept in line until Caine and Jack fuck things up.

If you somehow put LaCroix and his resources in place of Ryong and Ryong and her resources into LaCroix position; LaCroix would stabilize the situation immediately thanks to his own powers, resources, army and Sheriff while Ryong most likely dies to either Keui-jin or Smiling Jack the second night, if she isn't overthrown by the Court in the first night.

Click to shrink...

I kinda want to read that fic now. Maybe LaCroix somehow survived the clusterfuck in L.A. and is sent to Seattle as a penance and opportunity to redeem himself in the eyes of the Elder.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

At this point I feel like it should be mandatory that if you are developing a sequel or a game based off on an already existing franchise you must:

Click to shrink...

Those people are relegated to community management and have no impact on development.

Cause TCR hired a couple of VtM youtubers (at least one that I'm aware of) who did lore videos and live plays. Actually had experience in the IP.

Put them to interface with the community. And then probably never went 'so how would the community like this?'

 

[Gereh]

So I looked at the general reviews and the general consensus (from the non VTM crowd) seems to be that the story is great and the the best thing about the game, while Gameplay is mid and also a lot of complained about technical issues. Also the ending is supposedly really bad.

So I would like to point out that my predicition

my prediction: "okay-ish" for general folks, bad for WOD fans and really bad for fans of the original bloodlines.

Click to shrink...

So Bloodlines 2 will probably join the set of recently released VtM games that would have probably been better off without the VTM license attached to it and instead being normal "vampire" games.

Click to shrink...

was pretty accurate, since most WOD fans will not be able to enjoy the story. I'm not sure what I won for being so close (I just hope it's not a Bloodlines 2 copy).

At this point I feel like it should be mandatory that if you are developing a sequel or a game based off on an already existing franchise you must:

1. Play the bloody previous game
2. Read the source material
3. If it's a TTRPG at least play the fucking quick-starter or a one shot

Because this is just sad and/or pathetic.

Click to shrink...

Keep in mind how fucked the whole production process was, there is a chance that the original game was actually like that but since then it had been cut down multiple time and what we got is a Frankensteins Monster-esque version of that. I don't know how the production did go but a lof of stuff like "lack of customization options" or "you can't use weapons anymore" sounds to me like stuff that was cut to get the game into a state it could be released in. Then probably the next thing happened and caused issue and shit did go from there.

Here is the only real gameplay video I found of the OG project, in case someone forgot about it and this clearly does not look like the game we got.

View: https://www.youtube.com/embed/6xRCZePzzqM?t=1112

Cause TCR hired a couple of VtM youtubers (at least one that I'm aware of) who did lore videos and live plays. Actually had experience in the IP.

Click to shrink...

Here is something I learned semi-recently a lot of those VTM creators, especially those featured on the official WOD channel, never played a VTM game before V5. Some have made "lore videos" for longer but they never actually got to play the game. I think Outstar, the official community manager, herself also has gone on video in the past sayng that she never played the game before the current generation. This isn't supposed to be an attack on them or their position, many of them are great and make great content, I just wanted to point out that some may lack a certain perspective.

P.S. I'm installing the OG Bloodlines right now and I suspect I will have more fun with that then anyone has with the sequel.

 

[Maragas]

Here is the only real gameplay video I found of the OG project, in case someone forgot about it and this clearly does not look like the game we got.

Click to shrink...

That looks so good in comparison to what we got. Ugh.

 

[Gereh]

That looks so good in comparison to what we got. Ugh.

Click to shrink...

Yes and No, it looks like an actual RPG with choices and stats (but we can't really tell how much they matter, like yes you can +1 humanity for being nice to the Nosferatu bur we don't know what that actually does). Also combat looks ass, like the combat parts here does look kinda annoying if you had to actually play them. And I would say the environmental (especially indoors) looks way better in the game we got,

Still I do wonder if people wouldn't have enjoyed the original version more. You know put it on "easy" so the combat isn't annoying since you would probably one or two hit anything. But we will never know, since for all we know this mission was the only one that actually worked and the rest was a "Mindeye"-level of a bugfest.

 

[shadowdice]

So I looked at the general reviews and the general consensus (from the non VTM crowd) seems to be that the story is great and the the best thing about the game, while Gameplay is mid and also a lot of complained about technical issues. Also the ending is supposedly really bad.

So I would like to point out that my predicition


was pretty accurate, since most WOD fans will not be able to enjoy the story. I'm not sure what I won for being so close (I just hope it's not a Bloodlines 2 copy).

Click to shrink...

The story is Painfully By The Numbers with how events are telegraphed

Spoiler

First thing you learn about Lou is that she loves herself more than anything and is dismissive of others

Of course she killed her sister that was also Prince

Creepy woman Ysabella showing up in the building that Lou was attacked in who knows us and is painfully creepy asking us to see her unsoecified art show

She is evil, knows us, and We are the art show

Fabien's sire is missing, he doesn't know where he is, and now there is a voice in His head. That's his sire

Fabian wonders why someone put a malk in an elder's head. It was meant to be his sire out there instead of him

Who did the blood magic to weaken us? The literal first blood mage we see who also knows who we are

Meanwhile The Nosferatu keeps insisting there are no Sabbat around because this is the section of the story where people don't believe the crazy murder artist toreador with dozens of ghouls who packed hundreds of people into a room to die is Sabbat when that is an incredibly Sabbat thing to do