General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[vighzs]

A lot of it has to do with the choices made by the people who are making the content

V5 opened up with a lot of stupid shit and the stuff that paradox clamped down on didn't make it so they improved the other parts that were shit (looks at blood stained love)

Then what I loosely call video games where a lot of it was stupid, didn't use WoD's actual systems/lore, or were just straight cash grabs

Edit

I had reminded my brother who had originally pre ordered the first version of the game for my birthday Years ago that he might want to check if he got refunded for it (he paused and then checked to realize that it being an entirely new game hadn't resulted in that being refunded already)

I'm not sure if I want to drop money on getting a game to analyze the shit myself for full price or if I should bookmark playthroughs by non shills

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From what I've seen you won't miss much by only tuning into a 100% no commentary run. If you really want to see it for yourself I'd wait for a deep sale, chances are it will have one in christmas season if not sooner considering it's rather bland if I want to be charitable.

 

[heralding_bubble]

From what I've seen you won't miss much by only tuning into a 100% no commentary run. If you really want to see it for yourself I'd wait for a deep sale, chances are it will have one in christmas season if not sooner considering it's rather bland if I want to be charitable.

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watch as it's on 2025 Hallowe'en sale

 

[Maragas]

I'm not sure if I want to drop money on getting a game to analyze the shit myself for full price or if I should bookmark playthroughs by non shills

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You know what, I can do one last thing before I shelve Bloodlines 2 for good. Theorizing what the fuck is happening there with my limited knowledge that I got before softlock.

Fact: Our Elder lost most of his powers. He is marked all over his body.
Fact: Our Elder has his blood written in strange symbols all across the City. Consuming them grant us some XP.
Fact: The symbols even appear on the outside of the elevator of the Prince's Court. Meaning someone needs to be either very sneaky or part of the Camarilla.
Fact: Fabien was the one who found and opened our cask.
Fact: Everyone is going nuts and there is chaos on the streets.
Fact: Anarchs are frenzying everywhere, with moderates not in sight.
Fact: Sheriff is nuts and rogue. Openly says fuck Camarilla and fuck the Prince.
Fact: That Toreador chick was pretty bland when I lied to her that Ventrue Lau was fine, like she was expecting the opposite.

With these I can make some assumptions. We have someone who has access to magical BS, someone that has access to even the Camarilla Court, someone that can use Fabien and someone with a motive, ruin Camarilla in Seattle, to do so.
It could be a Baali. They have access to magic BS and all the weird symbols and marking could be infernal. They are also very sneaky, sneaky enough get into places they shouldn't. But not only V5 is allergic to them until recently but it doesn't explain how Fabien got involved.
It could be a Tremere. They are primarily made out of magic BS. They are part of the Camarilla, which can cover the elevator and why Fabien was involved. But what is the motive? And who is it? Ventrue Lau told us that there is no chantry here. Is it Sofia? She knew of us but everyone we met knew of us. So that's not it either. Tremere Antitribu then? But Sabbat mostly fucked off to the Middle East.
It could be an Assamite. They have magic BS, stealth BS for Camarilla access for elevator mark and Fabien involvement but still...what is their motive? Are they Ur-Shulgi follower who hates Camarilla? Sabbat Assamite? Personal vendetta?

Whoever it is, they are probably behind all the Anarch nonsense and there is a decent possibility that they are working with that Toreador Progenitor. I don't know why Sheriff is nuts but perhaps he is a neutral party after he lost his Prince and hates the new one? They will be doing a grand ritual using our lost Elder powers
So no conclusive answer but hey, I think this is a pretty good estimate from someone who stopped playing after the first night.

 

[shadowdice]

You know what, I can do one last thing before I shelve Bloodlines 2 for good. Theorizing what the fuck is happening there with my limited knowledge that I got before softlock.

Fact: Our Elder lost most of his powers. He is marked all over his body.
Fact: Our Elder has his blood written in strange symbols all across the City. Consuming them grant us some XP.
Fact: The symbols even appear on the outside of the elevator of the Prince's Court. Meaning someone needs to be either very sneaky or part of the Camarilla.
Fact: Fabien was the one who found and opened out cask.
Fact: Everyone is going nuts and there is chaos on the streets.
Fact: Anarchs are frenzying everywhere, with moderates not in sight.
Fact: Sheriff is nuts and rogue. Openly says fuck Camarilla and fuck the Prince.
Fact: That Toreador chick was pretty bland when I lied to her that Ventrue Lau was fine, like she was expecting the opposite.

With these I can make some assumptions. We have someone who has access to magical BS, someone that has access to even the Camarilla Court, someone that can use Fabien and someone with a motive, ruin Camarilla in Seattle, to do so.
It could be a Baali. They have access to magic BS and all the weird symbols and marking could be infernal. They are also very sneaky, sneaky enough get into places they shouldn't. But not only V5 is allergic to them until recently but it doesn't explain how Fabien got involved.
It could be a Tremere. They are primarily made out of magic BS. They are part of the Camarilla, which can cover the elevator and why Fabien was involved. But what is the motive? And who is it? Ventrue Lau told us that there is no chantry here. Is it Sofia? She knew of us but everyone we met knew of us. So that's not it either. Tremere Antitribu then? But Sabbat mostly fucked off to the Middle East.
It could be an Assamite. They have magic BS, stealth BS for Camarilla access for elevator mark and Fabien involvement but still...what is their motive? Are they Ur-Shulgi follower who hates Camarilla? Sabbat Assamite? Personal vendetta?

Whoever it is, they are probably behind all the Anarch nonsense and there is a decent possibility that they are working with that Toreador Progenitor. I don't know why Sheriff is nuts but perhaps he is a neutral party after he lost his Prince and hates the new one? They will be doing a grand ritual using our lost Elder powers
So no conclusive answer but hey, I think this is a pretty good estimate from someone who stopped playing after the first night.

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Spoiler

it is Sophia

 

[Maragas]

Spoiler

it is Sophia

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Really?
I thought it was weird that she was like, marshmallow puff, when everyone else in the entire City is arrogant as fuck against us. Especially as Tremere, guys who are mostly cold, logical and usually amoral. But I put it aside since Nosferatu Tolly is also weird

 

[shadowdice]

Really?
I thought it was weird that she was like, marshmallow puff, when everyone else in the entire City is arrogant as fuck against us. Especially as Tremere, guys who are mostly cold, logical and usually amoral. But I put it aside since Nosferatu Tolly is also weird

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Spoiler

yup her

I had her pegged because she was the one attractive woman to me several hours in, being nice, and immediately mentioning your name after people were talking about the dead prince

 

[NoFunposter]

clearly something happened if so many childe have room temperature IQ)

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>The younger kindred are coming down with "Brainrot" from all the Micro-plastics Pentex has put in the Kine's blood.

 

[shadowdice]

As it turns out my brother wasn't able to get the preorder of the hardsuit labs version refunded so I have the game

…shall I suffer for others?

 

[Vague Wanderer]

I mean wasn't the "get inspired > use inspired to boost a roll > get inspired from said roll > use inspired to boost a roll > get inspired from said roll > etc" cycle a thing too?

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Definitely, though the suggested fix to that is to simply let the GM pick the condition the Exceptional success grants after the first loop. Otherwise you just end up with the whole table annoyed at that one guy.

Since most of my tables would heavily frown against this as it would be considered "meta-gaming" outside of scenes that were specifically Mage "training on dispelling".

But in general it would say it would land in the same category as end of session "beats" or why tend to not NPC's to not gain any new powers in the time it takes your Mage to go from 3 dots up to 5. There are ways to explain that away (my favourite is that those characters have stagnated and have hit a bottleneck in their development) but first and foremost it's just a gameplay artefact.

P.S. I'm not sure what you mean by "normal" Mage (beside it being a fun oxymoron), but I assume you talk about the "rivals" section in "Nameless and Accursed".

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Yeah, most of the established Mages described in the Rivals section are like Gnosis 3-5. It seems to be the typical range for a "normal" Mage (which yeah, kind of an oxymoron) with Gnosis 6 generally seeming to be the peak outside of the occasional Hierarch or hermit who's dedicated himself to being a monster. Which makes sense I suppose - that's pretty capable, and it's easy to imagine someone in that position getting "comfortable" and not pushing their limits, and not advancing further.

But it does kind of raise the question of how quickly most mages actually reach that point. Technically, a character can start with Gnosis 3 if they spend all their Merit dots, which suggests it's possible to hit with single minded determination over the course of a few months. Maybe just call it 10 XP in 10 weeks for the sake of simplicity?

Obviously, this wouldn't really matter in a normal Mage game, because training in downtime just isn't really a thing in Mage typically. But I've been musing over running a Mage quest, and the question of beat farming would likely come up, especially as I've had a few ideas for Legacies with Attainments focused on beat farming. So I'm just trying to figure out a framework where that can be helpful, but not so game breaking that everyone else has to be an idiot not to do it.

 

[Rakdos92]

But overtime, I lost my enthusiasm for it. Right now, though? It is at its lowest. I wasn't kidding when I said this game made me sad.

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I'm sorry, man. Losing one's enthusiasm for a franchise is never fun.

 

[shadowdice]

playing the game as I got it for free

We see rats in the start and are not allowed to be a rat sucker. I need to directly interact with and press E on the door next to the police and be told not to open it because there are police there instead of having a single braincell necessary to realize that would have been a bad idea. The ghouls are openly tagging everything in the building to say they are ghouls.

Why is it that I am forced to go through multiple combat segments when looking for the body instead of going around the buildings to see if Fabien left it. I also have no idea how Fabien's body isn't ashes either from the about hundred years he spent dead or the body's exposure to sunlight over the time since his death

for some reason the hunting mechanic is to find randomly generated people in heightened states of emotion and draw them into an alley. You don't talk to them or anything. I interacted with one who immediately tried to hit me and so when I dodged a cop noticed and immediately shot him twice in the head before leaving him in the snow to bleed out. In Seattle

 

[Maragas]

Have fun, hopefully more than I did.

 

[shadowdice]

Have fun, hopefully more than I did.

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I'm not

it is a first person combat game without a block button, only a dodge button where you cannot use melee or ranged weapons despite all the climbing mechanics which make it seem like you should be able to do more than use telekinesis to throw shit. I am repeatedly put into close combat with anarchs and don't have dialogue options to get around direct combat but am only able to use a power once per three feedings, making it so THIN BLOODS are using powers more often than I am. It also keeps sending hordes at me so I am looking at this feeling like I should have a block button or third person perspective to keep track of everything that is on screen.

edit

After fighting my way through all the thin bloods and ghouls (which would require a lot of blood) I come to see Ryong who dominates somebody (I think a thin blood) and she just kills her instead of blood bonding her to have an anarch under her control.

 

[Maragas]

I'm not

it is a first person combat game without a block button, only a dodge button where you cannot use melee or ranged weapons despite all the climbing mechanics which make it seem like you should be able to do more than use telekinesis to throw shit. I am repeatedly put into close combat with anarchs and don't have dialogue options to get around direct combat but am only able to use a power once per three feedings, making it so THIN BLOODS are using powers more often than I am. It also keeps sending hordes at me so I am looking at this feeling like I should have a block button or third person perspective to keep track of everything that is on screen.

edit

After fighting my way through all the thin bloods and ghouls (which would require a lot of blood) I come to see Ryong who dominates somebody (I think a thin blood) and she just kills her instead of blood bonding her to have an anarch under her control.

Click to shrink...

You can use your dodge/dash to parry and there is a kick option and thats it. Unfortunately there is no way to upgrade your damage. Because we don't have any stats or abilities to increase.

 

[shadowdice]

You can use your dodge/dash to parry and there is a kick option and thats it. Unfortunately there is no way to upgrade your damage. Because we don't have any stats or abilities to increase.

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it is not well made as a social game, nor as a detective game, nor as a combat game. It is visually appealing I guess but that is it.

 

[Rakdos92]

it is not well made as a social game, nor as a detective game, nor as a combat game. It is visually appealing I guess but that is it.

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It's an embarassment to the legacy of the first game. Jesus, how can freaking LaCroix be a better Prince than this literally-who?

 

[shadowdice]

It's an embarassment to the legacy of the first game. Jesus, how can freaking LaCroix be a better Prince than this literally-who?

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there are multiple levels to it

LaCroix does things. The plot moves and changes due to what he does even if he is sending you to do his dirty work.

Ryong is not really the prince. She is a figurehead that fails to even be a figurehead because her Sire Lou, who is...a like brothel owner from the 1880s to 1903, openly just has her childer take the title of prince while having to listen to her in everything so everyone knows they are figureheads for her instead of being an actual master in the shadows. So there are multiple levels of fuck up here.

Additionally. LaCroix was embraces somewhere around 1800 or something so he was 200 years old before he became a prince. Lou is shown as the prince of Seattle in the 1920s. Meaning she (Lou) was embraced in 1903 and became prince within 17 years without seemingly being that low in generation. She also appears to be an established prince in this point which does not fit that either. Lou was a Neonate when she became a prince without any of the Bullshit murderblender powers that the proper VTMB Protagonist had to justify asking for the position at the end of the camarilla route (which is not you know, confirmed as a thing that would even happen in that route).

So LaCroix is a vampire whose backstory makes sense for the position he is in and how the story treats him. Ryong and her sire...just don't make fucking sense.

 

[Maragas]

Basically, LaCroix even if he is way over his head, actually functions as a Prince.

People listen to him, he does things, he has considerable force, he literally has a private army, his Sheriff is powerful and loyal to him (or at least dominated enough) and his position is stable as Kuei-jin kept in check and Anarchs kept in line until Caine and Jack fuck things up.

If you somehow put LaCroix and his resources in place of Ryong and Ryong and her resources into LaCroix position; LaCroix would stabilize the situation immediately thanks to his own powers, resources, army and Sheriff while Ryong most likely dies to either Keui-jin or Smiling Jack the second night, if she isn't overthrown by the Court in the first night.

 

[shadowdice]

Basically, LaCroix even if he is way over his head, actually functions as a Prince.

People listen to him, he does things, he has considerable force, he literally has a private army, his Sheriff is powerful and loyal to him (or at least dominated enough) and his position is stable as Kuei-jin kept in check and Anarchs kept in line until Caine and Jack fuck things up.

If you somehow put LaCroix and his resources in place of Ryong and Ryong and her resources into LaCroix position; LaCroix would stabilize the situation immediately thanks to his own powers, resources, army and Sheriff while Ryong most likely dies to either Keui-jin or Smiling Jack the second night, if she isn't overthrown by the Court in the first night.

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Lou's previous figurehead, and lou by proxy, GAVE the anarchs control of all the thin bloods while also branding them all, which would make it so the thin bloods would all hate the camarilla.

In addition to the branding (especially on the face as many are) being BATSHIT INSANE when you are trying to be a secret society

 

[vighzs]

Lou's previous figurehead, and lou by proxy, GAVE the anarchs control of all the thin bloods while also branding them all, which would make it so the thin bloods would all hate the camarilla.

In addition to the branding (especially on the face as many are) being BATSHIT INSANE when you are trying to be a secret society

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I'm not

it is a first person combat game without a block button, only a dodge button where you cannot use melee or ranged weapons despite all the climbing mechanics which make it seem like you should be able to do more than use telekinesis to throw shit. I am repeatedly put into close combat with anarchs and don't have dialogue options to get around direct combat but am only able to use a power once per three feedings, making it so THIN BLOODS are using powers more often than I am. It also keeps sending hordes at me so I am looking at this feeling like I should have a block button or third person perspective to keep track of everything that is on screen.

edit

After fighting my way through all the thin bloods and ghouls (which would require a lot of blood) I come to see Ryong who dominates somebody (I think a thin blood) and she just kills her instead of blood bonding her to have an anarch under her control.

Click to shrink...

it is not well made as a social game, nor as a detective game, nor as a combat game. It is visually appealing I guess but that is it.

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....

At this point I feel like it should be mandatory that if you are developing a sequel or a game based off on an already existing franchise you must:

1. Play the bloody previous game
2. Read the source material
3. If it's a TTRPG at least play the fucking quick-starter or a one shot

Because this is just sad and/or pathetic.

Thank you, it is my fault for giving it a chance.
...
You know, I started these SB and QQ General World of Darkness Discussion Threads in 2021 because I genuinely wanted a place to discuss WoD and try to make it more popular while giving newbie/starters a base to go from with my informative threadmarks.
But overtime, I lost my enthusiasm for it. Right now, though? It is at its lowest. I wasn't kidding when I said this game made me sad.

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I am sorry you had to go trough that.I understand how you feel as AoS Soulbounds Champions of Chaos elicited a similiar response from me after I properly read it.

My advice is to either look into something else for a while or go back to the roots of the setting and hope nostalgia rekindles the passion.

But no matter what you choose know this thread probably helped a lot of newbies and grognards in some shape or form.

 

[Rakdos92]

Basically, LaCroix even if he is way over his head, actually functions as a Prince.

People listen to him, he does things, he has considerable force, he literally has a private army, his Sheriff is powerful and loyal to him (or at least dominated enough) and his position is stable as Kuei-jin kept in check and Anarchs kept in line until Caine and Jack fuck things up.

If you somehow put LaCroix and his resources in place of Ryong and Ryong and her resources into LaCroix position; LaCroix would stabilize the situation immediately thanks to his own powers, resources, army and Sheriff while Ryong most likely dies to either Keui-jin or Smiling Jack the second night, if she isn't overthrown by the Court in the first night.

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I kinda want to read that fic now. Maybe LaCroix somehow survived the clusterfuck in L.A. and is sent to Seattle as a penance and opportunity to redeem himself in the eyes of the Elder.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

At this point I feel like it should be mandatory that if you are developing a sequel or a game based off on an already existing franchise you must:

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Those people are relegated to community management and have no impact on development.

Cause TCR hired a couple of VtM youtubers (at least one that I'm aware of) who did lore videos and live plays. Actually had experience in the IP.

Put them to interface with the community. And then probably never went 'so how would the community like this?'

 

[Gereh]

So I looked at the general reviews and the general consensus (from the non VTM crowd) seems to be that the story is great and the the best thing about the game, while Gameplay is mid and also a lot of complained about technical issues. Also the ending is supposedly really bad.

So I would like to point out that my predicition

my prediction: "okay-ish" for general folks, bad for WOD fans and really bad for fans of the original bloodlines.

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So Bloodlines 2 will probably join the set of recently released VtM games that would have probably been better off without the VTM license attached to it and instead being normal "vampire" games.

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was pretty accurate, since most WOD fans will not be able to enjoy the story. I'm not sure what I won for being so close (I just hope it's not a Bloodlines 2 copy).

At this point I feel like it should be mandatory that if you are developing a sequel or a game based off on an already existing franchise you must:

1. Play the bloody previous game
2. Read the source material
3. If it's a TTRPG at least play the fucking quick-starter or a one shot

Because this is just sad and/or pathetic.

Click to shrink...

Keep in mind how fucked the whole production process was, there is a chance that the original game was actually like that but since then it had been cut down multiple time and what we got is a Frankensteins Monster-esque version of that. I don't know how the production did go but a lof of stuff like "lack of customization options" or "you can't use weapons anymore" sounds to me like stuff that was cut to get the game into a state it could be released in. Then probably the next thing happened and caused issue and shit did go from there.

Here is the only real gameplay video I found of the OG project, in case someone forgot about it and this clearly does not look like the game we got.

View: https://www.youtube.com/embed/6xRCZePzzqM?t=1112

Cause TCR hired a couple of VtM youtubers (at least one that I'm aware of) who did lore videos and live plays. Actually had experience in the IP.

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Here is something I learned semi-recently a lot of those VTM creators, especially those featured on the official WOD channel, never played a VTM game before V5. Some have made "lore videos" for longer but they never actually got to play the game. I think Outstar, the official community manager, herself also has gone on video in the past sayng that she never played the game before the current generation. This isn't supposed to be an attack on them or their position, many of them are great and make great content, I just wanted to point out that some may lack a certain perspective.

P.S. I'm installing the OG Bloodlines right now and I suspect I will have more fun with that then anyone has with the sequel.

 

[Maragas]

Here is the only real gameplay video I found of the OG project, in case someone forgot about it and this clearly does not look like the game we got.

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That looks so good in comparison to what we got. Ugh.

 

[Gereh]

That looks so good in comparison to what we got. Ugh.

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Yes and No, it looks like an actual RPG with choices and stats (but we can't really tell how much they matter, like yes you can +1 humanity for being nice to the Nosferatu bur we don't know what that actually does). Also combat looks ass, like the combat parts here does look kinda annoying if you had to actually play them. And I would say the environmental (especially indoors) looks way better in the game we got,

Still I do wonder if people wouldn't have enjoyed the original version more. You know put it on "easy" so the combat isn't annoying since you would probably one or two hit anything. But we will never know, since for all we know this mission was the only one that actually worked and the rest was a "Mindeye"-level of a bugfest.

 

[shadowdice]

So I looked at the general reviews and the general consensus (from the non VTM crowd) seems to be that the story is great and the the best thing about the game, while Gameplay is mid and also a lot of complained about technical issues. Also the ending is supposedly really bad.

So I would like to point out that my predicition


was pretty accurate, since most WOD fans will not be able to enjoy the story. I'm not sure what I won for being so close (I just hope it's not a Bloodlines 2 copy).

Click to shrink...

The story is Painfully By The Numbers with how events are telegraphed

Spoiler

First thing you learn about Lou is that she loves herself more than anything and is dismissive of others

Of course she killed her sister that was also Prince

Creepy woman Ysabella showing up in the building that Lou was attacked in who knows us and is painfully creepy asking us to see her unsoecified art show

She is evil, knows us, and We are the art show

Fabien's sire is missing, he doesn't know where he is, and now there is a voice in His head. That's his sire

Fabian wonders why someone put a malk in an elder's head. It was meant to be his sire out there instead of him

Who did the blood magic to weaken us? The literal first blood mage we see who also knows who we are

Meanwhile The Nosferatu keeps insisting there are no Sabbat around because this is the section of the story where people don't believe the crazy murder artist toreador with dozens of ghouls who packed hundreds of people into a room to die is Sabbat when that is an incredibly Sabbat thing to do

 

[shadowdice]

Meanwhile in the VTM game that I am running, the players decided to investigate the company that ran the bee farm that the thin bloods were at and learned that it was owned by an Indian telecommunications conglomerate

Players: how do we get information about a medical company experimenting on bees owned by a telecommunication company

Me: all of you have at least two dots in medicine. You can apply for interviews

Players:….Fucking yes

We have a Ventrue using expression to write a cover letter about how she needs a job and is desperately taking care of people that need her and how she volunteers to help drug addicfs (her feeding requirement is recovering drug addicts) who then goes into an interview with a company owned by hunters while the Gangrel just walks with confidence after sneaking in and adjusting his Nerd glasses talking medical jargon because "oh you are clearly a doctor who should be here"

The Ventrue was being interviewed and getting probed by a doctor who sussed out that something was wrong while the Gangrel Doctor was walking to the secure experimental Bee room with a janitor who asked him if bees were suppossed to lay eggs in people

Gangrel Drug Dealer Doctor:…What? No. I think that is wasps

Janitor: Oh, well they do change the genetics so maybe they made them part wasp. I think one kind of wasp pollinates avocados and those are popular

Gangrel: Yes but…*increasing terror at carrion devouring bees crossed with wasps that lay larva inside of people* Oooh god. *steals a doctor's id card to enter the area to get a beekeeper uniform and enter the bee room* can I see the bees

Me: They are in sealed metal containers that are not see through, you can hear the buzzing though and-

Gangrel: I am never ever ever going to open those.

Meanwhile in the interview

Hunter Doctor: *mentions Pentex a weaver Corp, and black heroine all trying to suss out what Ventrue knows and noting down she is not reacting to information about werewolves and ghosts until feigning surprise when they are actually mentioned* so black heroine is made out of plants possessed by ghosts

Ventrue: Are you telling me the heroine is possessed?

Hunter: No, just empowered with ghost energies *describes pigment with the player realizing that yes it does let humans astral project* and we found out about and infiltrated vampire wizards

Ventrue: *actually follows that line of questioning despite being evasive about the supernatural and only saying yes she has seen things but refuses to say what she had seen. Making it so the hunter now believes she is a ghoul or thin blood*

Back with the bees

Gangrel: *has put in devices to help their Maeghar friend hack the system and find a secret connected room with a subject whose files they don't have access to yet* I go in *has to go through more double layered doors*

Me: the room has three caskets. One has a man who seems to be unconscious or is maybe in torpor, one has a pregnant woman with a mask feeding her some kind of sleep drug

Gangrel: Oh fuck it is a pregnant woman. Is this the Baali?

Me: Her pregnancy bump is moving like something is inside of her and you see what is either a bee or fly crawl out of her nose before going back in

Gangrel: Baali. Baali broodmother. I am killing her

Me: and the third casket has a child also being kept sesated

Ventrue: man, woman, 1.5 kids

Gangrel: I am killing her. I am killing the broodmother. What do I have? Is there a way to start a fire? *goes on about this as I describe the room and only pauses when I mention a computer*

He then proceeded to remove the computer from its place and disconnect it, which activated the security to seal the room and cause alarms to go off. He then debated on what to do, analyzed the man's body to see he did have a stake in him. And decided to use his claws to kill the woman (he has celerity 2) but was agonizing on how due to realizing that if there were ghouled demonic bee-wasps in her they may be released by her death and he would need to take off the uniform's glove, tear her apart, and put the gloves back on before the wasps could attack)

He the heard the echoes of Dynamite that proceeds the arrival of Demon Judge Holden and decided that he would be removing the stake from the man because he did not want to bet on taking out a Hunter security team and a Demon by himself

Meanwhile the Ventrue learned that the company had staked a Nagaraja and multiple Tremere after assaulting a chantry in India and had successfully infiltrated the blood Thaumaturgy underground while not realizing that the Hunter has realized she is at least affiliated with vampires and is trying to get information. But then she heard the dynamite Much closer to her than it was the Gangrel

my players are quite insistent that actual Baali are involved rather than people who found Baali books that the Actual Demon is manipulating

They also believe that clearly the Baali at the root of this infiltrated the tremere

Also Ventrue has learned that she is descended from Tiamat and whoever her sire is was heavily tied to demons to the point of her believing her sire was just straight up a demon at that point (it was actually a Ventrue with Demonic investments and Wyrm corruption which I thought the player would realize after I mentioned the vampire being in the form of a mutated snake that lost all its scales and the spiral symbols in the underground area his character was locked in during the embrace). Gangrel learned his specific bloodline of Gangrel were demon hunters opposed to Tiamat's line and have been so heavily focused on that role that his sire joined the Sabbat inquisition specifically to hunt demons and those who worship them and has now copies the symbols in a vision he had where his 4th Generation ancestor from the ancient past told his 5th generation ancestor about their Holy duty given to them by Caine to wipe out infernalists and Kuei Jin (he rolled really well to memorize the symbols on a demon slaying mace) but Gangrel spent half the session while researching the event convinced he had a vision of the Second city


Anyways

Gangrel: It is the holy duty of my line to kill demons. I embrace this *trying to figure out how to copy an Ennoia or Caine made anti demon hate mace*