General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[gale]

First Massasa War or second? Because for the first, you're talking about an eighty year span that reduces the Order of Hermes to a shadow of its self and definitively involves the eldest of the Tremere, the consumption of House Tremere at the fangs of Clan Tremere who just has its new Ante, and takes place in the Dark Medieval period while the metaphysics of DA Mage is starting to fall the fuck apart leading to spells failing.

The second probably doesn't have much for it because it's already a play, nice and pat, and has so much already set in stupid, stupid stone.

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I mean the second one should lead to Mages just fucking over Tremere due to Spheres not being something Tremere can defend against

 

[Wwind]

I mean the second one should lead to Mages just fucking over Tremere due to Spheres not being something Tremere can defend against

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Well, my friend. In general Mages are too OP for any sort of a crossover game. Meanwhile Vampires are the most profitable game line. So, WW had to... improvise. Now in mage games other supernaturals can use... I think Wits+Occult as countermagic at diff.6. Which is just silly as it makes everyone else better at countering Magick then mages themselves.

In older editions (which Massasa War 2 is part of) there were more reasonable ways for countermagic. Like Tremere specific thaumaturgy path. A jealously guarded secret.

 

[Gedou_Meta]

In mage itself, supernaturals can do basic countermagic except against instant damage type spells (dodge or Per+Awa there) with Wits+Occult generally limited by some other trait. M20 has it as Willpower for Vampires, and has the difficulty as the higher of 7 or Mage's Arete. IIRC, some book, probably Blood Treachery, does also let the Thaumaturgical Countermagic path of the Tremere come into play but that countermagic is done at half efficiency. IE, every two successes removes one from the mage's work. But what I was trying to get at is something different in both cases.

For Massassa War 1, it does deserve to exist but WW overloaded it and so it best exists as A Thing in the backstory, while MW2 is much smaller in scale but the problems start with the mages ignoring that they have Very Good Reason to know that the Tremere are Vampires that Die in the Sun and that they still do their static magic in a way that's at least Hermetic aligned.

 

[Wwind]

MW2 is much smaller in scale but the problems start with the mages ignoring that they have Very Good Reason to know that the Tremere are Vampires that Die in the Sun and that they still do their static magic in a way that's at least Hermetic aligned.

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they didn't tho?
It is explicitly mentioned that the book just left our daytime raids, suicidal ghoul kill teams and power jockeying with mind control. It explicitly mentioned rules for conjuring sunlight (favoring vampires, of course). We even have Hermetics conjuring Angel of the sun to roast vampires.

Now, Hermetics are not an army. Their main objective is not combat. They don't even have Beast or Rage that enables other supernatural to engage in such explosive violence.
Not to mention at the time their Masters and most combat capable mages got hit by Avatar Storm.

 

[gale]

they didn't tho?
It is explicitly mentioned that the book just left our daytime raids, suicidal ghoul kill teams and power jockeying with mind control. It explicitly mentioned rules for conjuring sunlight (favoring vampires, of course). We even have Hermetics conjuring Angel of the sun to roast vampires.

Now, Hermetics are not an army. Their main objective is not combat. They don't even have Beast or Rage that enables other supernatural to engage in such explosive violence.
Not to mention at the time their Masters and most combat capable mages got hit by Avatar Storm.

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Yes they do? One of the whole things for Mages, is the fact they can make artificial life forms or constructs that have a wide range of things and one of those things is Rage, and there is also the fact Mages as baseline tend to have Willpower 5 which makes them zealots in all willpower systems.

 

[Wwind]

Yes they do?

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What are you responding to with this? because what I meant was - no they did not forget sunlight kills vampires.

One of the whole things for Mages, is the fact they can make artificial life forms or constructs that have a wide range of things and one of those things is Rage

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Hm. I could have been more precise I guess, as all things are possible with mage. So while I do not remember any case of them manufacturing anything living with Rage, Inhuman aggression is possible. For example with transplants, or taking Nephilim merit. But it is not free and universal like with vamps.

and there is also the fact Mages as baseline tend to have Willpower 5 which makes them zealots in all willpower systems.

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Sure, higher than other starting characters or NPCs. But not really that important. Usually vampires have higher dice pools and if mage WP gets low enough they lose access to Sphere levels.

 

[gale]

Sure, higher than other starting characters or NPCs. But not really that important. Usually vampires have higher dice pools and if mage WP gets low enough they lose access to Sphere levels.

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I mean it is, there is also the fact Mages don't have a morality stat like Vampires or werewolves werid form of it. Mages are by and large Zealots that are very willing and able to kill. Even low Sphere levels (2) make them deadly as fuck compared to Vampires and others.