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General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

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Repentant_Dragos said:
Is this viable? Assume that the Prince of 100,000 Leaves is as powerful as Gaia (Nasuverse).
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It is viable, but not in a way you think. While technically Prince is only rank 8 XD, it is too abstract to fight in any conventional sense. What it would be doing is infecting Fate timeline, generating anomalies and lostbelts.
Also, the level of grossness and general horror would be much higher then usual Fate.
 
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As a question when it comes to VTR. Looking at the rules I have a point when I look at Praestantia which is in the VII book and have my brain hurt looking at it as in my head I look at that and go "Wait does this stack with Celerity" before then looking at the rules and being "Wait, does Celerity add to dex rolls or just defense, initiative, speed?" Because, well, I have that moment of going "They wouldn't make something that broken" before remembering it is white wolf. Especially when the Akhud have Celerity in clan as well.

Plus it lets you go back again and not do what you would have otherwise done by using blood to have the action be a vision instead so you can try something else
 
shadowdice said:
As a question when it comes to VTR. Looking at the rules I have a point when I look at Praestantia which is in the VII book and have my brain hurt looking at it as in my head I look at that and go "Wait does this stack with Celerity" before then looking at the rules and being "Wait, does Celerity add to dex rolls or just defense, initiative, speed?" Because, well, I have that moment of going "They wouldn't make something that broken" before remembering it is white wolf. Especially when the Akhud have Celerity in clan as well.

Plus it lets you go back again and not do what you would have otherwise done by using blood to have the action be a vision instead so you can try something else
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Reminds me of the broken Temporis/Celerity combos. And I am not talking about stacking extra actions, that's just cliche baby use.
It happens when you realize nothing stops you from Celerity and Temporis at the same time. (Hell, True Brujah can have their own special True Celerity* alongside Temporis)

You see, you can't stack extra actions from Celerity and Temporis because game balance said so. But Celerity gives you +Celerity to all Dexterity pools as long as you aren't actively using them for Extra Actions. These extra passive bonuses was balanced around losing them if you use Extra Actions.
Meaning you can get your Extra Actions from Temporis but also have the passive Dexterity bonus from Celerity. Lastly, technically nothing but ST is stopping you from having Temporis, True Celerity and Celerity at the same time. Which leads to you having a +10 to all Dexterity pools from Celerity and True Celerity and extra actions from Temporis.

This lore wise even makes sense. Normal Celerity speeds you up physically. True Celerity slows down time around you. Temporis literally gives you extra time. Combine all of that and you will have the fastest vampire alive.

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LeftWaiting said:
VII is the "brokenly powerful NPC-only splatbook" IIRC, so it would make sense for it to be the more powerful interpretation.
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rereading VTR's rules. The potence and fortitude equivalents add dice to relevant skills meanwhile Celerity...just doesn't. It raises the defense roll and gives penalties to firearms attacks if you would be denied a defense roll. Praestantia effectively acts as celerity did in previous editions when it comes to raising dex rolls, while also no being allowed to use it for non stealth non combat maneuvers unlike VTM Celerity. The Takebacks ability seems to be...an attempt at balancing it for what was taken away and fact that you need to raise the celerity skill for the speed aspect.

But it also ADDS to defense as well as celerity so you still end up with BROKENLY POWERFUL dodge tank.
Maragas said:
Reminds me of the broken Temporis/Celerity combos. And I am not talking about stacking extra actions, that's just cliche baby use.
It happens when you realize nothing stops you from Celerity and Temporis at the same time. (Hell, True Brujah can have their own special True Celerity* alongside Temporis)

You see, you can't stack extra actions from Celerity and Temporis because game balance said so. But Celerity gives you +Celerity to all Dexterity pools as long as you aren't actively using them for Extra Actions. These extra passive bonuses was balanced around losing them if you use Extra Actions.
Meaning you can get your Extra Actions from Temporis but also have the passive Dexterity bonus from Celerity. Lastly, technically nothing but ST is stopping you from having Temporis, True Celerity and Celerity at the same time. Which leads to you having a +10 to all Dexterity pools from Celerity and True Celerity and extra actions from Temporis.

This lore wise even makes sense. Normal Celerity speeds you up physically. True Celerity slows down time around you. Temporis literally gives you extra time. Combine all of that and you will have the fastest vampire alive.

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I had thought there was a rule that you can't have celerity and true celerity at the same time.

I have however, gamed things such as Caitiff being able to learn True Celerity at their usual cost to learn disciplines without that merit.
 
shadowdice said:
I had thought there was a rule that you can't have celerity and true celerity at the same time.

I have however, gamed things such as Caitiff being able to learn True Celerity at their usual cost to learn disciplines without that merit.
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There is a rule in Revised Storyteller's Handbook about how you can't have any Celerity at all alongside Temporis but that's optional. (They really, really wanted to nerf Temporis even more.)
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Plus, even if you use that rule, V20's True Celerity is an exception so you can still have your extra actions and Dexterity bonus. Just not as much as you could have with both Celerity and True Celerity.
 
In MtAw 1e, was there ever a clarification on possibility/special requirements for casting spells on things in Twilight, while not being in Twilight yourself? It's made fairly clear that you need Spirit 4 to cast attack spells across the Gauntlet (Spirit 2 to scry) and Death 5 to cast into/out of the Underworld, but I don't recall seeing rules regarding Twilight (which, notably, is a lot "closer" than either of those). I mean, obviously you're not going to be doing much sensory casting without relevant Arcana (not sure even that would qualify, given that it's specifically mundane senses that count), but sympathetic casting is a thing.
 
I can't find a rule in any of my MtAw books and I think I've got the set.

Speculation:

I believe there is no universal rule because what actually can be done to something in twilight varies heavily. Psychic Projection (pg 215, Mind 4) talks about being subject to mind-affecting powers but you're immune to most damaging attack spells because you don't have corpus. In comparison, the basic Prime attack spell (Celestial Fire, pg 224, Prime 3) says:
This spell affects beings or objects in the Twilight state (although the mage needs "Supernal Vision," p. 221, or some other magical sense that allows him to see Twilight beings to be able to target such creatures, or else he fires blind).
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so magic can definitely effect twilight entities without the appropriate schools, if it is applicable.

In the reverse, both the Mind and Death methods of entering Twilight in the core book very clearly allow you to target the physical world with magic while you're in regular twilight, plus ghosts/familiars/etc. can do it with numina and ghost mages with magic. I think the reason that e.g. raw Matter doesn't work in twilight without Spirit/Death to translate it is because there just isn't any matter in the twilight.
 
Thanks for looking. TBH I have nearly the full set of PDFs myself; I did search them myself before asking, though.

I mean, I'd definitely rule that most aimed spells wouldn't work on Twilight creatures - Thunderbolt, for instance, creates a lightning bolt from the end of your wand, and while you could certainly point it at a ghost it'd just go through. I think Celestial Fire's a case of "exception proves the rule" where this particular aimed spell actually does exist in Twilight as well.

But yeah, I was kinda leaning toward non-aimed spells working on Twilight (assuming you have some way of actually acquiring a target, and assuming the target is not otherwise invalid like trying to target a ghost with Life) since magic targets the Pattern and Twilight is actually part of the material realm.

doll said:
In the reverse, both the Mind and Death methods of entering Twilight in the core book very clearly allow you to target the physical world with magic while you're in regular twilight,
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Do they? I just reread them and I don't see any particular mention.
 
magic9mushroom said:
Do they? I just reread them and I don't see any particular mention.
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You're right about Death sorry, I was thinking of Ghost Mages. But Psychic Projection (mind 4) opening paragraph before the description has:
Likewise, the mentally projecting mage cannot affect creatures or things physically except through magic.
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which implies to my reading that like a ghost in Twilight, the psychic projection should be able to use magic on the material world.
 
I have put way too much thought into a prince or elder using Yi-Gi-Oh as coded messages.

Spies are monsters put face down, Diablerie is pot of greed. Referring to nazi vampires is a Blue Eyes White Dragon but calling it Aryan Nation Dragon, Cappadocians are Summoned Skull, Tremere are Blue Eyes White Dragon. If asking questions about Kuei-Jin send a message asking about the pricing difference of Chinese and Japanese packs. Sabbat is Right arm of the Forbidden One, Tal Mahe Ra are Left arm of the forbidden one.

A coterie enters the city with a police officer immediately giving them a ticket with a message or a gardener handing out a business card telling them to go to a specific game store where they end up being sent to a table where someone just hands them all decks an a binder full of primarily commons and uncommons while forcing them to learn both the game and the coded meanings before letting them out.

They presume it is a malkavian plot before learning most of the game stores in town are owned by the prince/elder who also has stock in the game company.

Hunters go to where they presume a congregation of vampires will be but see a bunch of people playing a yu-gi-oh tournament including a bunch of goths, furries, and old people before leaving.

Both neonates and ancillae look down at their cards thinking about how this theme has thrown multiple organizations off their trail too many times in the last few decades.
 
What does that make the whole Thing with Upper Deck, and do BreaKeys some how also factor into this? End-quiring minds want to know.
 
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