General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[Imperator Sol]

The Fianna are white and haven't been removed, though?

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Yeah, they were fucked over too, to an extent.
They were reduced from a Tribe of drunk, party-loving Irish werewolves into... hospitality wolves? Or something like that.

 

[Notsae66]

The Fianna are white and haven't been removed, though?

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I should specify, it was major contriburing factor, but admittesly not the only one. People picture "Norse," they picture big blond vikings (ie, "aryans"). Some associate this with nazis (due to the nazis hijacking much of their symbols for themselves and idolizing that phenotype), and thus it's easier to just lump the whole clan into that racist depiction. The fianna are white, but they aren't so visibly associated with what some would call "the whitest cultures" that certain rascist groups idolized and despise, and aren't as "aryan." It isn't just the Get being white alone that got them nuked, but it is the factor that made them get completely fucked while more morally fucked up groups got a pass because the fucked up thing their associated with isn't loosely white supremacy. Other factions that are hardcore racists for different groups didn't get nuked from orbit, but the one clan that loosely aesthetically resemble but aren't actually a white supremacists group did. It's just honestly gross behavior from Paradox, deciding which flavour of genocidal intent is more acceptable based on such arbitrary nonsense.

Not to mention, the Fianna didn't exactly come out unscathed either. Many people don't consider the Irish white (they were considered historically the "negro of europe" by a disgustingly large portion of society not a hundred years ago). So to many, they aren't as white as the Get, yet their culture still got obliterated and their heritage destroyed. The norse are about as white as it gets, while some racists don't consider the Irish to be white at all.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Yeah, they were fucked over too, to an extent.
They were reduced from a Tribe of drunk, party-loving Irish werewolves into... hospitality wolves? Or something like that.

Click to shrink...

I should specify, it was major contriburing factor, but admittesly not the only one. People picture "Norse," they picture big blond vikings (ie, "aryans"). Some associate this with nazis (due to the nazis hijacking much of their symbols for themselves and idolizing that phenotype), and thus it's easier to just lump the whole clan into that racist depiction. The fianna are white, but they aren't so visibly associated with what some would call "the whitest cultures" that certain rascist groups idolized and despise, and aren't as "aryan." It isn't just the Get being white alone that got them nuked, but it is the factor that made them get completely fucked while more morally fucked up groups got a pass because the fucked up thing their associated with isn't loosely white supremacy. Other factions that are hardcore racists for different groups didn't get nuked from orbit, but the one clan that loosely aesthetically resemble but aren't actually a white supremacists group did. It's just honestly gross behavior from Paradox, deciding which flavour of genocidal intent is more acceptable based on such arbitrary nonsense.

Not to mention, the Fianna didn't exactly come out unscathed either. Many people don't consider the Irish white (they were considered historically the "negro of europe" by a disgustingly large portion of society not a hundred years ago). So to many, they aren't as white as the Get, yet their culture still got obliterated and their heritage destroyed. The norse are about as white as it gets, while some racists don't consider the Irish to be white at all.

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Oh, oh my. I do not want to ask how the Fianna are ravaged now.

Maybe W6 will change things, just to save profits?

 

[Maragas]

Heh...I still remember the time when W5 was just getting ready to be released and they were trying to explain why they didn't change "Fianna", because apparently Fianna is just a word. And that's just among many shitty stuff Achilli talked about. That W5 Q/A was a great eye opener on how fucked W5 was.

Is there a reason the Fianna have the only non-English tribe name?
Fianna is just a word, and it stayed because it gives a sense that werewolf cultures have occurred all around the world and been named in local languages. Much like "Garou" is French-based and "Gaia" is Greek, or in Vampire "Toreador," "Camarilla," etc. are Spanish but the greater concepts don't have any association with them. (I also like that "Fianna" helps break up the rest of the tribe names, which are more overtly "thing-doer" in construction.)

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Why change others then? They they backpadelled, made them the Heart Wardens and apologized to Irish people they offended.

Link to the Q/A

 

[shadowdice]

Heh...I still remember the time when W5 was just getting ready to be released and they were trying to explain why they didn't change "Fianna", because apparently Fianna is just a word. And that's just among many shitty stuff Achilli talked about. That W5 Q/A was a great eye opener on how fucked W5 was.

Why change others then? They they backpadelled, made them the Heart Wardens and apologized to Irish people they offended.

Link to the Q/A

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…Irish people were offended by the tribe being named Fianna or offended by the stupid way the writer said the term for the Irish cultural equivalent of the Argonauts was just a word?

 

[Maragas]

…Irish people were offended by the tribe being named Fianna or offended by the stupid way the writer said the term for the Irish cultural equivalent of the Argonauts was just a word?

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The latter.
There are especially a few focal ones that basically demanded that if they are going out of their way to treat stuff like Uktena and Wendigo better, remove Metis etc., why the hell wouldn't they do the same for the Fianna?

 

[shadowdice]

The latter.
There are especially a few focal ones that basically demanded that if they are going out of their way to treat stuff like Uktena and Wendigo better, remove Metis etc., why the hell wouldn't they do the same for the Fianna?

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I am now thinking of Shadowrun and an elderly knights of the red branch operative secretly infecting elven nobles with HMHVV (the setting's eldritch origin vampire/zombie virus) as revenge for the elves taking over Ireland

 

[Commander72]

The latter.
There are especially a few focal ones that basically demanded that if they are going out of their way to treat stuff like Uktena and Wendigo better, remove Metis etc., why the hell wouldn't they do the same for the Fianna?

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Trying to please everyone, ended up pleasing no one.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

Trying to please everyone, ended up pleasing no one.

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Something made for everyone is something made for no one.

 

[shadowdice]

Something weird i found which reminds me of how bad the Wiki can be is Sculpt the Perfect Servant, which is a Tremere ritual to make super babies.

The Wiki says the ritual requires ripping a baby in half above a pregnant woman. The citation for it in the book is Blood Magic, Secrets of Thaumaturgy page 97-98 and the actual text is "Rip a stillborn baby in half"

While still Horiffically messed up (especially with how a Tremere being a Tremere might get access to those) there is still a pretty massive difference between the two.

A Coterie breaks into a blood mage's house expecting untold horrors while the actual mage looks at them confused explaining that he doesn't curse the babies with deformities or any of the other stuff other tremere do.

The only require malus on the children made with the ritual is that their humanity is capped at 6 which is only 1 below "Normal" and higher than a lot of vampires.

The benefit meanwhile is 3 to 4 dots per attribute instead of a regular human's 2 and can live to 120 without vitae. This is explicitly for all attributes

 

[vighzs]

On an another topic since the idea of a WoD x Cyberpunk story refuses to leave my mind there is a portion of the lore I would like to get opinions on.

How does Exotic Biosculpting interact with the Garou/Fera and their Kinfolk?

Would werecreatures lose their Homid form for Minor Bodyscuplting variants and maybe even their glabro form if they undergo the major variant and have their crinos warform permanently as their default "human" form?

If a Human Kinfolk undergoes exotic sculpting would they or their children have a higher chance of undergoing first tranformation. Or would the Garou feel threatened by their ability/see it as an affront to Gaia and trigger yet another war.

There is also the possibility long extinct Fera might return if some long lost, distant kinfolk undergoes the treatment, and the old totem/gaia/her agents notices it and re-awaken said tribe

Would the Fera be even capable of getting cyberware or would they need gifts from Weaver aligned spirits for them to work with their transformations.

I am going to post this on both associated thread because I would welcome opinions and ideas

 

[vighzs]

Something weird i found which reminds me of how bad the Wiki can be is Sculpt the Perfect Servant, which is a Tremere ritual to make super babies.

The Wiki says the ritual requires ripping a baby in half above a pregnant woman. The citation for it in the book is Blood Magic, Secrets of Thaumaturgy page 97-98 and the actual text is "Rip a stillborn baby in half"

While still Horiffically messed up (especially with how a Tremere being a Tremere might get access to those) there is still a pretty massive difference between the two.

A Coterie breaks into a blood mage's house expecting untold horrors while the actual mage looks at them confused explaining that he doesn't curse the babies with deformities or any of the other stuff other tremere do.

The only require malus on the children made with the ritual is that their humanity is capped at 6 which is only 1 below "Normal" and higher than a lot of vampires.

The benefit meanwhile is 3 to 4 dots per attribute instead of a regular human's 2 and can live to 120 without vitae. This is explicitly for all attributes

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Yeah while researching the lore I found the best way to use the wiki for specific lore tidbits is to see which resources it quotes and read from them instead

 

[Gedou_Meta]

On an another topic since the idea of a WoD x Cyberpunk story refuses to leave my mind there is a portion of the lore I would like to get opinions on.

How does Exotic Biosculpting interact with the Garou/Fera and their Kinfolk?

Would werecreatures lose their Homid form for Minor Bodyscuplting variants and maybe even their glabro form if they undergo the major variant and have their crinos warform permanently as their default "human" form?

If a Human Kinfolk undergoes exotic sculpting would they or their children have a higher chance of undergoing first tranformation. Or would the Garou feel threatened by their ability/see it as an affront to Gaia and trigger yet another war.

There is also the possibility long extinct Fera might return if some long lost, distant kinfolk undergoes the treatment, and the old totem/gaia/her agents notices it and re-awaken said tribe

Would the Fera be even capable of getting cyberware or would they need gifts from Weaver aligned spirits for them to work with their transformations.

I am going to post this on both associated thread because I would welcome opinions and ideas

Click to shrink...

So, assuming it's Cyberpunk 20XX series cyberpunk, your questions for Biosculpting could all be answered by asking the same questions but substitute the sculpting with "Lots of Tattoos and Cosmetic Surgery," or "A Really High Quality Fursuit," depending on how funny you want to be about asking yourself the questions.

As for implants, I'd say that the Garou would have to take some rituals from the Cyberdog camp of Glasswalkers, who probably either got even worse in their behavior, or made deals enough that their secrets coming out is going to be a big, big, big problem.

 

[Maragas]

On an another topic since the idea of a WoD x Cyberpunk story refuses to leave my mind there is a portion of the lore I would like to get opinions on.

How does Exotic Biosculpting interact with the Garou/Fera and their Kinfolk?

Would werecreatures lose their Homid form for Minor Bodyscuplting variants and maybe even their glabro form if they undergo the major variant and have their crinos warform permanently as their default "human" form?

If a Human Kinfolk undergoes exotic sculpting would they or their children have a higher chance of undergoing first tranformation. Or would the Garou feel threatened by their ability/see it as an affront to Gaia and trigger yet another war.

There is also the possibility long extinct Fera might return if some long lost, distant kinfolk undergoes the treatment, and the old totem/gaia/her agents notices it and re-awaken said tribe

Would the Fera be even capable of getting cyberware or would they need gifts from Weaver aligned spirits for them to work with their transformations.

I am going to post this on both associated thread because I would welcome opinions and ideas

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As long as they are properly made and bonded, they should be fine.

Spoiler: Cyberfetishes

 

[shadowdice]

The whole thing with hunters in Japan having cybernetics makes me think of Weaver Power rangers

Teenagers at a weaver owned franchise store handed weird stuff to fight bane monsters and those weird shapeshifting monsters that keep throwing bricks at the window

 

[gale]

Honestly, some more not good Weaver but some Pro Humanity Weave things is something I do wish we got to see far more

 

[shadowdice]

Honestly, some more not good Weaver but some Pro Humanity Weave things is something I do wish we got to see far more

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Weaver looks down at the person with a petition for Weaver Force 5 with colorful spider themed outfits and a theme song

She decides that it might work since Spider-Man has been great weaver propaganda

 

[Maragas]

Someone shared their character sheet from playtest for what is essentially V6

...

Look, I am trying to not say mean things about something that is from essentially Alpha gameplay tests but...I am thinking a lot of unkind shit. About everything about Brujah, "Lifepaths", weird mix of dots and numbers, how simplified everything looks etc.

Character art looks good though and I appreciate they brought Blood Pool back.





View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/1vayxzm/vtm_hey_guys_heres_the_v6_playtest_character_i/

 

[Maragas]

Here is the official press release

"We're finally able to unveil that we're working on Vampire: The Masquerade 6th Edition, and that we have a strong creative vision guiding us," said Jess Lanzillo, World of Darkness Creative Director at White Wolf. "Never before have we been able to bring the community into a Vampire: The Masquerade project at such an early stage, and we're confident that will help us build a line of V6 books that speaks to both new and longtime players."

"With Vampire: The Masquerade 6th Edition, players get a faster engine that still keeps the things Vampire: The Masquerade veterans love, while removing friction," said Diogo Nogueira, Lead Game Designer at White Wolf. "There's less book-flipping, quicker NPC creation, and more mechanics that support the tension at the table. The new Nature/Beast Tracker especially creates that push-and-pull that reinforces the tone of Vampire: The Masquerade."

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Hightlight are;

• Core System Changes: Vitae and Willpower/Health merge into a single resource, Difficulty subtracts dice from a pool rather than raising a target number, and players roll nearly all of the dice at the table.
• Reimagined Tension: An added Beast/Nature Tracker and revamped Humanity Scale turn the struggle between Beast and Humanity into an active, personalized system rather than a static number.
• Player and Storyteller Resources: Players earn Quickening on strong rolls, while Drama lets Storytellers complicate scenes, threaten The Masquerade, or empower NPCs.
• Ideation and Creation: Play is further streamlined with a unified procedure for physical and social conflict. Create characters built around lifepaths, natures, clan traits, and merits. Discipline powers also scale with dots and favor active rather than passive use.
• Mechanics: "Devil's Bargains" and "Choose Your Pain" mechanics are added to support player-driven failure states, while Storytellers can enjoy a smoother, level-based building system for NPCs. Players and Storytellers can also easily find safety tools through explicit TTRPG Safety Toolkit callouts.

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Here are the playtest documents for V6. They are free to buy on DrivethruRPG.

Scenario
Storyteller Stuff
Player Stuff

...
They made unique disciplines a thing again by making up a "Corruption Discipline"...but didn't bring back Serpentis or Daimonion and even went further and removed Protean...

I don't know what to say.

Spoiler

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

Well, here's another edition where they fucked up massively.

God, I hope the playtesting reveals the did a bad and they go and fix i-

I can't even finish that sentence.

 

[SGB]

went further and removed Protean...

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What the fuck

 

[shadowdice]

Here is the official press release


Hightlight are;


Here are the playtest documents for V6. They are free to buy on DrivethruRPG.

Scenario
Storyteller Stuff
Player Stuff

...
They made unique disciplines a thing again by making up a "Corruption Discipline"...but didn't bring back Serpentis or Daimonion and even went further and removed Protean...

I don't know what to say.

Spoiler

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....They took the Path of Corruption from old editions of thaumaturgy and turned it into a discipline. Having that as a discipine and putting it next to dominate is....a choice, especially when presence could do the same thing.

There is no reason to remove Protean. Shapeshifting is one of the most famous vampire powers and I have no idea how they'd have difficulty porting it into the new edition.

 

[LeftWaiting]

"Lifepaths"

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IMO that just looks like Path stuff from the Storypath system; "Origin", "Role", Etc
edit:
Yeah that seems to be exactly what it is;

A representation of the various professions, identities, and trades a vampire has experienced over its existence.

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[vighzs]

Here is the official press release


Hightlight are;


Here are the playtest documents for V6. They are free to buy on DrivethruRPG.

Scenario
Storyteller Stuff
Player Stuff

...
They made unique disciplines a thing again by making up a "Corruption Discipline"...but didn't bring back Serpentis or Daimonion and even went further and removed Protean...

I don't know what to say.

Spoiler

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Well there goes my hope for V6.

Also have you seen the pictures about their roadmap?

Mage V5 and Changeling the Dreaming V5 (or V6 I suppose ) and a Vampire Dark Ages Supplement/Gameline.

We just talked about the Get of Fenris bullshit they pulled. I do not have high hopes for those gamelines.

 

[gale]

I am pissed about Mage, they are going to fuck it up. They are going to depower and fucking turn it into some black and white bulshit!

 

[vighzs]

I am pissed about Mage, they are going to fuck it up. They are going to depower and fucking turn it into some black and white bulshit!

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Yeah after the 20th Edition Traditions book my money is on the:

- The vilification of the Sons of Ether due to the events of WW2...
- ...while completely ignoring the laundry list of crimes the Akashics did in the same timeframe.
- The Celestial Chorus will have probably shitty caritature parodies of the worst catholic stereotypes...
- ...While the Cult of Ecstasy and Verbena will smell like roses

I am not even going to mention the Technoncracy.

 

[Notsae66]

There is no reason to remove Protean. Shapeshifting is one of the most famous vampire powers and I have no idea how they'd have difficulty porting it into the new edition.

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What the fuck

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Fucking christ I hate Paradox. There were some interesting and meritorious ideas in V5, even if you had to pick them out of a burning shit swamp. This? Fuck this.

 

[gale]

Yeah after the 20th Edition Traditions book my money is on the:

- The vilification of the Sons of Ether due to the events of WW2...
- ...while completely ignoring the laundry list of crimes the Akashics did in the same timeframe.
- The Celestial Chorus will have probably shitty caritature parodies of the worst catholic stereotypes...
- ...While the Cult of Ecstasy and Verbena will smell like roses

I am not even going to mention the Technoncracy.

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They are going to make the 1e Union look good and its the worst fucking thing! We fought for giving them something for years and now Paradox is going to fuck it over

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I wish this was all false...

 

[Notsae66]

I wish this was all false...

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At this point, the world of darkness feels more hopeful and optimistic than our own.