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General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

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Is it just me or does anyone else get changeling the Lost vibes from this because it's giving me a lot of those vibes. Can't help but Wonder if the people behind this ever played changeling the Lost but regardless I feel like this would serve as pretty good inspiration for a campaign


 
Just wanted to tell you all that you can pick up the V5E and H5E books for cheap in humble bundle, the one containing all the books is only about 18 bucks. In case someone wants to add those books to their collection. In case someone wants that and has missed the offer.
 
I have looked through W5 at a bookstore

they have removed the wolf fucking (thankfully) and changed a lot of lore (skin walkers aren't called that when of the stuff they took from other cultures that is one of the few that is at least on theme, Métis seem to be gone as well) so it doesn't seem you can have wolves that turn human instead of the other way around

but they still have a lot of the disengenuous stuff which gets more egregious since they are owned by paradox

book quality is better than vampire and isn't asset flipping failed games/larp photo shoots
 
shadowdice said:
I have looked through W5 at a bookstore

they have removed the wolf fucking (thankfully) and changed a lot of lore (skin walkers aren't called that when of the stuff they took from other cultures that is one of the few that is at least on theme, Métis seem to be gone as well) so it doesn't seem you can have wolves that turn human instead of the other way around

but they still have a lot of the disengenuous stuff which gets more egregious since they are owned by paradox

book quality is better than vampire and isn't asset flipping failed games/larp photo shoots
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I can tell you that it isn't worth it. At least in my opinion. They butchered it.

Also, art is mostly traced and slight modified pictures.
 
Repentant_Dragos said:
Also, huh, this thread only has 26 Pages...
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Most people get their fix at the table or with the plethora of new games and interactive novels, I assume.

Or perhaps it comes up in other threads. Like I know I talked about the new Wednesday show, and what clan she'd fit best with over in that thread.
 
Skitzyfrenic said:
Most people get their fix at the table or with the plethora of new games and interactive novels, I assume.

Or perhaps it comes up in other threads. Like I know I talked about the new Wednesday show, and what clan she'd fit best with over in that thread.
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Discord is another big thing if you can find a good server. At lest from what I find.
 
I am actually thinking of running a CofD game on QQ, but SFW is barren while NSFW has people who are not good at spelling and grammar, so...
 
Skitzyfrenic said:
Most people get their fix at the table or with the plethora of new games and interactive novels, I assume.

Or perhaps it comes up in other threads. Like I know I talked about the new Wednesday show, and what clan she'd fit best with over in that thread.
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My VTMB story is like the only Owod story I've seen on the site
Maragas said:
I can tell you that it isn't worth it. At least in my opinion. They butchered it.

Also, art is mostly traced and slight modified pictures.
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oh no doubt about it being shit

Pictures…annoy me even more as the art direction for 5th edition has been terrible mostly and all over the place style wise to the point I wish they'd just do the grungy stuff from the 90s

the vast lore changes are incredibly noticeable. I don't even like old werewolf (I read up on it mainly because I read all the settings. There are jabs at real people in the book which probably are equivalent to ones that flew over my head in old lore due to not being from the 90s, but the stuff tends to be nonsensical and not have to do with what was being said before) but the vast differences were irritating. A lot of the tribes are way different now, The Fenris are effectively tossed out because the writers decided "oh mid century Germans" meanwhile The Tzimisce are still playable in vampire, and Glasswalkers had done plenty of kidnapping and mad science

They changed a lot of the lore (Furies) so there is no reason to go that route with the fenris.

And the Fenris being "too far gone" while the new lore is Garou straight up assaulting people who they think might be potential garou in full wolf form to gaslight them into shifting is…yeah (like not even kinfolk raised in the family but people who don't know about werewolves but have some garou blood in them from generations back) especially when the game admits "a lot of the time they die of the garou is wrong and traumatized if not
 
shadowdice said:
My VTMB story is like the only Owod story I've seen on the site

oh no doubt about it being shit

Pictures…annoy me even more as the art direction for 5th edition has been terrible mostly and all over the place style wise to the point I wish they'd just do the grungy stuff from the 90s

the vast lore changes are incredibly noticeable. I don't even like old werewolf (I read up on it mainly because I read all the settings. There are jabs at real people in the book which probably are equivalent to ones that flew over my head in old lore due to not being from the 90s, but the stuff tends to be nonsensical and not have to do with what was being said before) but the vast differences were irritating. A lot of the tribes are way different now, The Fenris are effectively tossed out because the writers decided "oh mid century Germans" meanwhile The Tzimisce are still playable in vampire, and Glasswalkers had done plenty of kidnapping and mad science

They changed a lot of the lore (Furies) so there is no reason to go that route with the fenris.

And the Fenris being "too far gone" while the new lore is Garou straight up assaulting people who they think might be potential garou in full wolf form to gaslight them into shifting is…yeah (like not even kinfolk raised in the family but people who don't know about werewolves but have some garou blood in them from generations back) especially when the game admits "a lot of the time they die of the garou is wrong and traumatized if not
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I see. That's plainly stupid in and out of universe, yes...
 
Repentant_Dragos said:
I am actually thinking of running a CofD game on QQ, but SFW is barren while NSFW has people who are not good at spelling and grammar, so...
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I feel attacked ... (jk). Tell people to install grammaly or something if they can't get their grammar right.

shadowdice said:
The Fenris are effectively tossed out because the writers decided "oh mid century Germans" meanwhile The Tzimisce are still playable in vampire, and Glasswalkers had done plenty of kidnapping and mad science
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It's more that they are very close to "Modern Scandinavia Neo-Nazis".

While I'm not a Werewolf player (I think it's the least interesting splat in oWOD) I of course know some people and you always hear stories of actual far-right people outing themselves as such in Werewolf games and they are mostly fans of the Fenris. That and their are prevalent horror-stories about people with "SS" and "Swastika" Tattoos turning up to LARP events and getting mad when people bar them entrance, not sure how true that one is as seemingly everyone tends to tell this stories, but they are all very similar so it may just be people repeating the same story over and over again. But this seems to be an actual problem in (northern) Europe.

So with how close some of the stuff is to "Modern Neo-Nazi" beliefs, I assume they thought it would not go over well with the public if they keep the Fenris around.

That said the Nephandi got a book for Mage not so long ago and they are objectively worse. (I actually really liked the book, they are less cartoonish "evil 4 lulz" and more fucked up people that don't care for anyone besides themselves and want to just see the world burn down around them while amassing power now. And the book made it very clear that there is no "excuse" or "reasoning" for being a Nephandi, a Nephandi is always just wrong. I wish they would have gone with that was instead of banning the fenris in W5 too)
shadowdice said:
My VTMB story is like the only Owod story I've seen on the site
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I think one of the issues is that the WOD formular doesn't work that well for your typical QQ fics, I don't see any stories that have "personal horror" around and if you write one, I fear that people come in and go "MC is a pussy" for actually struggling with keeping his humanity and stuff. I think Mage may be the best choice because the MC is always right (at least from their perspective) and will force their will onto the world. But Mage is also very complicated to explain to people.

Also one oWOD story just means there is one more compared to nWOD stories.
 
gereh said:
I feel attacked ... (jk). Tell people to install grammaly or something if they can't get their grammar right.


It's more that they are very close to "Modern Scandinavia Neo-Nazis".

While I'm not a Werewolf player (I think it's the least interesting splat in oWOD) I of course know some people and you always hear stories of actual far-right people outing themselves as such in Werewolf games and they are mostly fans of the Fenris. That and their are prevalent horror-stories about people with "SS" and "Swastika" Tattoos turning up to LARP events and getting mad when people bar them entrance, not sure how true that one is as seemingly everyone tends to tell this stories, but they are all very similar so it may just be people repeating the same story over and over again. But this seems to be an actual problem in (northern) Europe.

So with how close some of the stuff is to "Modern Neo-Nazi" beliefs, I assume they thought it would not go over well with the public if they keep the Fenris around.

That said the Nephandi got a book for Mage not so long ago and they are objectively worse. (I actually really liked the book, they are less cartoonish "evil 4 lulz" and more fucked up people that don't care for anyone besides themselves and want to just see the world burn down around them while amassing power now. And the book made it very clear that there is no "excuse" or "reasoning" for being a Nephandi, a Nephandi is always just wrong. I wish they would have gone with that was instead of banning the fenris in W5 too)

I think one of the issues is that the WOD formular doesn't work that well for your typical QQ fics, I don't see any stories that have "personal horror" around and if you write one, I fear that people come in and go "MC is a pussy" for actually struggling with keeping his humanity and stuff. I think Mage may be the best choice because the MC is always right (at least from their perspective) and will force their will onto the world. But Mage is also very complicated to explain to people.

Also one oWOD story just means there is one more compared to nWOD stories.
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SB doesn't have much WoD or NWOD which isn't just pure crack/Worm crossovers with massive Taylor wank.

As for the Neo-Nazis, the LARP scene attracts a lot of crazies and Werewolf's lore often is....werewolf lore where even their attempts to clean it up doesn't really change a certain part of it all that much.

Which is where all the Furry and Ecoterrorist jokes come in.
 
gereh said:
I feel attacked ... (jk). Tell people to install grammaly or something if they can't get their grammar right.


It's more that they are very close to "Modern Scandinavia Neo-Nazis".

While I'm not a Werewolf player (I think it's the least interesting splat in oWOD) I of course know some people and you always hear stories of actual far-right people outing themselves as such in Werewolf games and they are mostly fans of the Fenris. That and their are prevalent horror-stories about people with "SS" and "Swastika" Tattoos turning up to LARP events and getting mad when people bar them entrance, not sure how true that one is as seemingly everyone tends to tell this stories, but they are all very similar so it may just be people repeating the same story over and over again. But this seems to be an actual problem in (northern) Europe.

So with how close some of the stuff is to "Modern Neo-Nazi" beliefs, I assume they thought it would not go over well with the public if they keep the Fenris around.

That said the Nephandi got a book for Mage not so long ago and they are objectively worse. (I actually really liked the book, they are less cartoonish "evil 4 lulz" and more fucked up people that don't care for anyone besides themselves and want to just see the world burn down around them while amassing power now. And the book made it very clear that there is no "excuse" or "reasoning" for being a Nephandi, a Nephandi is always just wrong. I wish they would have gone with that was instead of banning the fenris in W5 too)

I think one of the issues is that the WOD formular doesn't work that well for your typical QQ fics, I don't see any stories that have "personal horror" around and if you write one, I fear that people come in and go "MC is a pussy" for actually struggling with keeping his humanity and stuff. I think Mage may be the best choice because the MC is always right (at least from their perspective) and will force their will onto the world. But Mage is also very complicated to explain to people.

Also one oWOD story just means there is one more compared to nWOD stories.
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shadowdice said:
SB doesn't have much WoD or NWOD which isn't just pure crack/Worm crossovers with massive Taylor wank.

As for the Neo-Nazis, the LARP scene attracts a lot of crazies and Werewolf's lore often is....werewolf lore where even their attempts to clean it up doesn't really change a certain part of it all that much.

Which is where all the Furry and Ecoterrorist jokes come in.
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I wrote a CofD fic; two of them, actually - They're in my sig.
 
Repentant_Dragos said:
I wrote a CofD fic; two of them, actually - They're in my sig.
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xOver don't count (imo). Even if I really liked the Clavin and Hobbes one, I'm still sad you put it on hiatus. Can't really say much about the other one, when I read FGO in the title I'm like "guess that is not for me" and move on.

shadowdice said:
SB doesn't have much WoD or NWOD which isn't just pure crack/Worm crossovers with massive Taylor wank.
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Fixed it. (jk)
 
Imabot said:
My last RP experience taugh me that as long everyone have fun, grammar becomes a secondary concern. Thank god because I suck at it. :V
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That's good, but to be honest, I don't like reading small paragraphs of posts I find hard to read and which show little effort, just... It does not appeal to me.
 
Sydonai said:
Does the published version still have the "actually wanting to fight the Wyrm and it's servants drives you insane and irredeemably evil" bit?
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Lore wise or mechanics

the main thing they even say about the Fenris is "They argue that the Garou should all go out and fight" which was what the 90s books were saying the Garou were gearing up for. But when the Fenris say the Garou should unite to do that they are evil and Father Wolf is corrupt or been replaced, so if you want to play Fenris then you are someone who renounced them and are still considered suspicious and probably evil by everyone

i didn't buy the book just read through a physical copy to see what changed
 
shadowdice said:
Lore wise or mechanics
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This bit specifically;
gRz8NMy.png

https://i.imgur.com/gRz8NMy.png
 
The funniest thing about it is that you can now redeem BSD with some convincing but you can't come back from Hauglosk aka being a Cult of Fenris.
 
Maragas said:
The funniest thing about it is that you can now redeem BSD with some convincing but you can't come back from Hauglosk aka being a Cult of Fenris.
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I am unsure if that is writers forgetting what they are writing or Bias. I think there was a loresheet in vampire 5e for doing that with Sabbat and they are leaning in hard on sabbat being NeoNazis

while removing almost all the actually entertaining lore for the Sabbat Iike the kinky hell scale of Montreal

I kind of wish WoD got more creative in their villain factions since
 
There's definitely big bias in the current WoD.

A part of it is they don't understand evil. They don't understand being a villain. They don't understand politics or society outside of their immediate experience and bias. They don't understand being a monster.

Which is strange given most of the WoD is about being some flavor of monster. Its like they refuse to think about being in those shoes and do everything in their power to still be the good guy.

Another big part is that there is a very vocal part of the fandom that doesn't want to engage with certain parts of the setting, and vocally says 'just get rid of it.' Even if it added flavor and texture.

But it leads to them axing political factions with the wrong politics. Or axing the politics, and not actually understanding why those politics were semi-necessary to prop up that faction. Or by giving a faction the dumbest fucking politics that make no actual sense.

The factions that remain are simply comically evil with no real supporting ideology. But the dev's'll say 'they aren't meant to be played, they're there to be extra evil npcs. They don't need complex lore or reasons, just make shit up if it's really that important to you. No, we don't care we've retconned all the good stuff away, we did that on purpose.'

There are things I like about V5, fairly big fan of hunger dice, but there are huge swathes where I'm like: did we read the same older materials? Are you even working from the older materials? Did you just watch Blade and Kindred the Embrace and call it a day? Do you even know how to people?
 
Skitzyfrenic said:
There's definitely big bias in the current WoD.

A part of it is they don't understand evil. They don't understand being a villain. They don't understand politics or society outside of their immediate experience and bias. They don't understand being a monster.

Which is strange given most of the WoD is about being some flavor of monster. Its like they refuse to think about being in those shoes and do everything in their power to still be the good guy.

Another big part is that there is a very vocal part of the fandom that doesn't want to engage with certain parts of the setting, and vocally says 'just get rid of it.' Even if it added flavor and texture.

But it leads to them axing political factions with the wrong politics. Or axing the politics, and not actually understanding why those politics were semi-necessary to prop up that faction. Or by giving a faction the dumbest fucking politics that make no actual sense.

The factions that remain are simply comically evil with no real supporting ideology. But the dev's'll say 'they aren't meant to be played, they're there to be extra evil npcs. They don't need complex lore or reasons, just make shit up if it's really that important to you. No, we don't care we've retconned all the good stuff away, we did that on purpose.'

There are things I like about V5, fairly big fan of hunger dice, but there are huge swathes where I'm like: did we read the same older materials? Are you even working from the older materials? Did you just watch Blade and Kindred the Embrace and call it a day? Do you even know how to people?
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They do not understand politics or often the words they say

Like, they described the Camarilla as fascist and it wasn't in the Anarch book. They had the in-universe perspective of what should have been a camarilla vampire use terms like punching down/punching up.

The Camarilla are a Feudalist secret society that updated (to varying degrees) to neofeudalism in many domains (that along with trying to make the camarilla domains be largely the same when it should vary far more/the whole mess which is the power of The Prince versus Primogen when that itself should vary often)

how comically evil they tend to go also...makes me wonder how these characters are still alive especially with how the writers keep pressing the government hunter button. This also tends to be emphasized with the Camarilla to the point where if I look at a lore book I can guess which group someone will be in based on how sympathetic the writers try to make them (which often fails)

Like, I wrote a technically camarilla (was in the paradigm of Constantinople's Dream) Tzimisce Voivode that engaged in a mass killing of the old establishment of a city's vampire hierarchy and took over the camarilla through violence

The player characters liked her while knowing she was ancient evil vampire koldun because:
  1. She was cool, I had picked out nice character art and given her a personality beyond Scumbag
  2. Was polite to Everyone even people she disliked (This is something which Ventrue Should Have and was emphasized in the clans lore books but is pretty much always ignored in favor of a sneering rich guy)
  3. The vampire overlord that wanted control over other vampires...actually gave benefits to those that worked under her and those who did more for them got greater benefits (Blood bonded the spirit of the city and thus makes travel easier for those in her good graces)
We don't see anywhere near as much of this in any of the factions as we really should.

Like say, a Tremere that had been the Chantry's financier and logistics person (because by god a bunch of wizards need the for reagents and laundering the gold they keep making) who either got big into technology or dominated/blood bonded a tech mogul and now "Takes care of the community" by getting other vampires secure lines so long as they continue to do favors for the chantry.

Or a toreador prince that bought a social media company and gives their subjects burner phones as a show of "faith"

Chicago's lore books are a mess of a timeline (without getting into them changing peoples ages without looking at the dates they give) where they had Critias make a "Finishing school" for vampires, destroy it, have Kevin Jackson remake it, and...don't really do anything with it. A prince sponsoring attempts at making the vampires in the community tech literate is a genuinely interesting concept which would help in survival, but it doesn't go anywhere and is like two sentences.
 
shadowdice said:
They do not understand politics or often the words they say

Like, they described the Camarilla as fascist and it wasn't in the Anarch book. They had the in-universe perspective of what should have been a camarilla vampire use terms like punching down/punching up.
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I was going to say that, but I felt like it might be bumping into rule 8 to point out that they, the devs who exist now, didn't know what words meant, especially in politics. Using fascism as an example, as well. And I just didn't feel like potentially risking the dick slap today.

Or pointing out that the Anarch Movement is just a re-flavoring of the Camarilla. Barons are slightly more local princes who loosely create their own courts, then go to a court of Barons for the whole city which has a de facto leader Baron. And they all fall into loose copies of the Cam's court roles. But pointing that out, seems to lead to a fuck ton of reeeeee'ing this edition.
 
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