Just a Phase [Worm]

[Rymu]

Eight is very weak but everything else works out very well.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Eight is very weak but everything else works out very well.

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Any suggestions that would work better I am in no ways skilled in song writing.

 

[Carcer]

What's going on with this quest?
The last update was in April and the thread is still open?, is QM okay?
Also great story and fun omakes.

 

[Rymu]

What's going on with this quest?
The last update was in April and the thread is still open?, is QM okay?
Also great story and fun omakes.

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It's not a quest tho?

 

[Carcer]

It's not a quest tho?

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with this story then

 

[FirstSelector]

merry early Christmas

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Excellent as always, and merry Christmas to you too?

 

[DrWhoFan13]

with this story then

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Last I heard, a combination of procrastination and real life.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

So here is a thought that has been bothering me for a few days now, has Taylor gotten any Master/Stranger procedures training?

Cus from what we have seen so far in story she hasn't gotten any form of instruction from the PRT/Protectorate besides the standard identity stuff and tour. Considering her disregard about the Thinker being in the tour group I feel safe to assume no one has brought up the dangers of an infiltrator.

I could assume whatever the PRT has to say about Master/Strangers was in the handbook Taylor got, but considering it has been referred to a glorified pamphlets it seems unlikely. Plus it would make sense to not put your standard strategy for dealing with infiltrators in an easy to access booklet and have it conveyed directly instead.

It could even be another misunderstanding on the PRT's part with Boston assuming it was covered before Taylor met the Brockton team, and the ENE assuming that Boston would handle it and didn't tell them. Of course there is the other option that Master/Stranger training comes after power testing which would make sense considering how many things that is a prerequisite for.

But still it seems like a big issue just waiting to happen.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

So here is a thought that has been bothering me for a few days now, has Taylor gotten anyaster/Stranger procedures training?

Cus from what we have seen so far in story she hasn't gotten any form of instruction from the PRT/Protectorate besides the standard identity stuff and tour. Considering her disregard about the Thinker being in the tour group I feel safe to assume no one has brought up the dangers of an infiltrator.

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I'd say it falls behind power testing. Among other things you likely need to know any personality quirks that come from powers. Like the stereotype of Tinkers getting twitchy if they go too long without working on their stuff.

I doubt the assumption was she got M/S training in Brockton, given she wasn't on base there for more than a couple hours.

Plus she's only been in Boston for what, a couple, three, weeks? Less than a month at the outside by my guess. Need to build trust first, before "hey, let's shove you into a padded cell with no clock, where we will wake you up at odd hours to ask you a combination of nonsense and highly personal questions."

In addition they likely need time to build a baseline personality to check against. Which means others, likely the Wards, will be asked "what do you know about Phase personally?"

Yeah, that is going to be a short and uncomfortable question and answer session.

M/S profiles take time to build is my guess, so much of the training probably falls later, when the Ward or Protectorate Hero is close to a debut. What could get things uncomfortable is the refresher M/S training and reporting of same. Phase comes up as 'incomplete' on the chart. And people have to sign exemptions as to why. And keep signing them since most of the standard accepted excuses are likely "on leave/vacation will complete when returns" or "on boarding, not at that module yet". But both also could require an expected timeline to get that person into compliance.

Yeah, 'indefinite' is not going to be an option, but a missed compliance date and asking for yet another extension would be worse.

 

[DrWhoFan13]

So here is a thought that has been bothering me for a few days now, has Taylor gotten any Master/Stranger procedures training?

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We have no idea. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Rymu]

Taylor letting herself be Mastered feels like an interesting route, if a risky one.

 

[BF110C4]

Another problem is that it would be common sense not to train prospective Wards in most M/S counters except the most basic ones available to civilians in case they are compromised or decide to quit. The more people know that the base ask for your favorite color followed by the first letter of the day you were born in the NATO nomeclature the more likely a Stranger will be able to infiltrate, so probably not even full Protectorate members know half of the information required beyond a general idea, especially the intel required after a suspected contact.

That said Boston and BB quite likely got specific and unique passcodes and procedures so the first thing they must have done before giving Taylor access to the buildings would have been to teach her how to come in without setting the M/S alert, and they would do it with both BB veterans and even visitors just to avoid wasting containment foam.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

We have no idea. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

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Best case scenario is that it's a drill and Taylor doesn't know what to do, worst case scenario it isn't a drill.

Taylor letting herself be Mastered feels like an interesting route, if a risky one.

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Taylor is probably one of the few people who can only be Mastered by consent considering her Trump power.

I doubt the assumption was she got M/S training in Brockton, given she wasn't on base there for more than a couple hours.

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I said because there is probably a few days gap between Taylor's stay in the hospital and meeting the Brockton Wards. And by training I was more or less referring to learning code phrases and standard procedures rather than building a full profile.

Plus she's only been in Boston for what, a couple, three, weeks? Less than a month at the outside by my guess. Need to build trust first, before "hey, let's shove you into a padded cell with no clock, where we will wake you up at odd hours to ask you a combination of nonsense and highly personal questions."

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Ironically a potential Master/Stranger trying to impersonate Taylor will probably be caught for being too cooperative if that was the case.

But yeah Taylor wouldn't be comfortable with that at all considering her trigger was all about being trapped with no way out against her will.

Of course the people running the test will probably inform her that it is merely a test but Taylor isn't likely to comply or beleive them thinking it would just be a plot to keep her locked up or something.

In addition they likely need time to build a baseline personality to check against. Which means others, likely the Wards, will ask "what do you know about Phase personally?"

Yeah, that is going to be a short and uncomfortable question and answer session.

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The only thing the other Wards know for certain about Taylor is that she doesn't like the PRT/Protectorate and her name. Though Lily and Valve might have a few other things to say about Taylor but that certainly isn't enough to build a full profile. The only other option for that would ironically be Emma or Sophia which both have their own issues and biases.

Yeah, 'indefinite' is not going to be an option, but a missed compliance date and asking for yet another extension would be worse.

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Armstrong's best hope is that Taylor's power nullification effect extends to Master powers as well at that point.

But still I would assume that assigning Taylor to the base tour at all without any M/S training at all would be an issue. Since that would be an opportunity for a Master to show up and mind whammie the entire Wards team at once.

 

[BF110C4]

One question, what do you think M/S training actually teaches? Because they won't put a random soldier in the tank and teach him to resist interrogation while asking nonsense.

M/S basic training is more likely to entail:

A) How to recognize the signs of a mastered ally and/or civilian.
B) How to detect a Stranger and limit his movements.
C) Tactics to establish secure communications after a security breach.
D) A general overview of historic tactics of masters and strangers as well as subclassifications
E) An overview of the counters to a mastered person at short, medium and long term
F) Avenues of treatment.

Practical training would involve geting a blindfold and trying to detect a trooper by sound or smell, learning how to craft rolling field passwords and validate those of your M/S buddies, point the doppleganger disguised as a trooper with full face mask (by voice, deductive reasoning, before/after observation). Putting you in the M/S tank and showing how a full scale interrogation works including the anger responses, sleep deprivation and other countermeasures won't protect you from a human master, won't give you additional willpower to resist being controlled, it would only forewarn a Master of the possible tactics they would use against him and end with at least some counters after they capture someone with the right training, and maybe give the hero some small amount of counterinterrogation training that more likely than not won't be half as effective as actual counterinterrogation training.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

One question, what do you think M/S training actually teaches? Because they won't put a random soldier in the tank and teach him to resist interrogation while asking nonsense.

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I was thinking that the barebones basic training would be a briefing on the security code phrases. Other than that it would be a run down on what to do if you suspect an infiltration or what M/S containment is. Which is the main reason why I brought it up since Taylor ignoring Lisa during the tour would be a pretty big deal if the PRT found out about it even if she isn't a Master or Stranger. Full M/S training would of course be learning how to notice the signs of an imposter.

 

[Psiidmon]

The 'Colour/NATO' was an Undersiders thing, when I was looking up what form the M/S codes took in the Protectorate for my quest it seemed to be 'name of a helicopter, three numbers' and it changed up every day.

Also I think canon M/S stuff is mostly field reactions for when your emotions and body are out of synch, less 'toss a probie in a room for days to sweat it out' that fanon's sort of built up.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

The 'Colour/NATO' was an Undersiders thing, when I was looking up what form the M/S codes took in the Protectorate for my quest it seemed to be 'name of a helicopter, three numbers' and it changed up every day.

Also I think canon M/S stuff is mostly field reactions for when your emotions and body are out of synch, less 'toss a probie in a room for days to sweat it out' that fanon's sort of built up.

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The thing is, is Taylor even on the distribution list for this?

Her ID and pass are actually temporary/guest ones. Meant for short term use till they get a new cape through power testing and get them issued their official ID. It was implied Guass had to jury rig someone because without Power Testing Taylor didn't have an official costume that she needed to be wearing for the picture to go with that ID.

Bets everything from having to renew the ID, to M/S code phrase distribution, to what entrances are closed for construction or too many civies goes through the mailing list complied from official IDs? How many automated notices is Taylor not on the list for right now, that everyone thinks she is because it is automated?

After all Emma had to social engineer Taylor/Phase's contact info out of Armsmaster for the inhouse messaging system. Because as a temp ID Taylor wasn't in the generally available directories for messaging. And likely her work email as well?

Oh, does she need to present her official ID to update her system access passwords? An ID she doesn't have? If nothing civilian or Youth Guard was locked behind it, I can see her shrugging if locked out and waiting to see how long till someone notices she isn't logging in and/or clearing out her email inbox...

 

[BF110C4]

The thing is, is Taylor even on the distribution list for this?

Her ID and pass are actually temporary/guest ones. Meant for short term use till they get a new cape through power testing and get them issued their official ID. It was implied Guass had to jury rig someone because without Power Testing Taylor didn't have an official costume that she needed to be wearing for the picture to go with that ID.

Bets everything from having to renew the ID, to M/S code phrase distribution, to what entrances are closed for construction or too many civies goes through the mailing list complied from official IDs? How many automated notices is Taylor not on the list for right now, that everyone thinks she is because it is automated?

After all Emma had to social engineer Taylor/Phase's contact info out of Armsmaster for the inhouse messaging system. Because as a temp ID Taylor wasn't in the generally available directories for messaging. And likely her work email as well?

Oh, does she need to present her official ID to update her system access passwords? An ID she doesn't have? If nothing civilian or Youth Guard was locked behind it, I can see her shrugging if locked out and waiting to see how long till someone notices she isn't logging in and/or clearing out her email inbox...

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As someone with direct access to secure facilities and the Wards masked/unmasked areas she must have at least a similar level of access as the janitorial staff so an Id with lots of area restrictions and barely enough passwords to get into the building and make use of common areas but at the first M/S alert they get foamed and restrained because they don't have any of the other codes.

That said I bet EVERYONE on a PRT or Protectorate facility learns how to call an M/S threat because its like seeing a fire without being a firefighter.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

As someone with direct access to secure facilities and the Wards masked/unmasked areas she must have at least a similar level of access as the janitorial staff so an Id with lots of area restrictions and barely enough passwords to get into the building and make use of common areas but at the first M/S alert they get foamed and restrained because they don't have any of the other codes.

That said I bet EVERYONE on a PRT or Protectorate facility learns how to call an M/S threat because its like seeing a fire without being a firefighter.

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And that is how Boston finds out Taylor can completely nope containment foam, and probably most other things they have to hold people moving around when they shouldn't.

I can see the mere attempt, even in a "Foam them all. God will know His own" scenario will trigger enough of a panic attack that any thought of holding back will not even be a consideration. "Full bore linear panic" as an outdoors writer put it. Pick a direction and don't stop till you are in open air and well away.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

I can see the mere attempt, even in a "Foam them all. God will know His own" scenario will trigger enough of a panic attack that any thought of holding back will not even be a consideration. "Full bore linear panic" as an outdoors writer put it. Pick a direction and don't stop till you are in open air and well away.

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This was actually the whole plot of my omake please explain were a M/S was called on Taylor and she just noped right out of there.

And that is how Boston finds out Taylor can completely nope containment foam, and probably most other things they have to hold people moving around when they shouldn't.

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To be fair they should already just assume this since her whole power revolves around phasing through materials and she isn't manton limited. So the general assumption for Boston is that Taylor can phase through it until proven otherwise (Lily).

But still the more I think about Taylor's security card the more I think it is a glaring hole in Boston's internal security that will come back to bite them if/when Taylor decides she is done with their BS.

 

[klattmose]

And that is how Boston finds out Taylor can completely nope containment foam, and probably most other things they have to hold people moving around when they shouldn't.

I can see the mere attempt, even in a "Foam them all. God will know His own" scenario will trigger enough of a panic attack that any thought of holding back will not even be a consideration. "Full bore linear panic" as an outdoors writer put it. Pick a direction and don't stop till you are in open air and well away.

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I'm now picturing the PRT dissolving the containment foam only to find Taylor performing the Modified Stationary Panic and being very perplexed.

 

[RogueInquisitor]

If Taylor got M/S training, what would she do with that knowledge? I'm immagining her calling M/S alerts on the rest of the Wards for failing to act sufficiently malicious ("I didn't hear them boast about how they've been torturing their favorite victims all week," or "didn't commit a random act of violence all day,") but never calls an alert when they try to tell her that the level of malice she's expecting isn't part of the baseline. When asked about this, she just replies "being part of the cover-up is consistent with your baseline." Taylor loses permision to raise M/S alerts by time the weekend is over.

 

[BF110C4]

If Taylor got M/S training, what would she do with that knowledge? I'm immagining her calling M/S alerts on the rest of the Wards for failing to act sufficiently malicious ("I didn't hear them boast about how they've been torturing their favorite victims all week," or "didn't commit a random act of violence all day,") but never calls an alert when they try to tell her that the level of malice she's expecting isn't part of the baseline. When asked about this, she just replies "being part of the cover-up is consistent with your baseline." Taylor loses permision to raise M/S alerts by time the weekend is over.

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Frankly Taylor already shown that with her the problem is the exact opposite. During her part of the tour she detected an unknown parahuman between the visitors and decided that it wasn't her problem despite being a huge security breach in the place she is currently sleeping.

Also we are forgetting that Taylor strategy is to keep a low profile unless provoked and do nothing that might actually get her in legal trouble. Constantly calling M/S alarms is similar to someone constantly pulling a fire alarm. After a while no matter the excuse a judge will determine that there was malicious intent and will issue a proportional sentence, such as community service in benefit of the injured party, in this case the Wards and their on-site support personnel.

Taylor is too smart to lose her one advantage over a set of bad practical jokes that would make her feel like Madison and Emma.

 

[The Unicorn]

One question, what do you think M/S training actually teaches?

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I think M/S training is just learning the codes and procedures, and let you know what basic M/S interrogation looks like so you don't react badly if they need to apply it to you in the middle of an emergency. The later, or rather Taylor's refusal to comply with it would be the reason she doesn't get it.
I'd think the bigger issue is establishing a baseline for how you behave when questioned to make identifying more subtle master influences easier, and since Taylor isn't cooperating they can't get that so in an emergency will just assume Taylor is compromised.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Frankly Taylor already shown that with her the problem is the exact opposite. During her part of the tour she detected an unknown parahuman between the visitors and decided that it wasn't her problem despite being a huge security breach in the place she is currently sleeping.

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Taylor is showing conscript syndrome. She's counting the days till the Freedom Bird takes her away, and in the meantime doing the bare minimum as long as it doesn't obviously impact her.

She is not sticking her neck out for the Wards or the PRT short of a threat. Also to report Verthdani/Lisa? Taylor would have to explain how she knows Lisa Thought at her. Currently Taylor is keeping the fact she is very aware when Thinker powers are used on her under wraps. And she doesn't like the PRT near enough to reveal that yet.

 

[RogueInquisitor]

I don't think Taylor cares about "the security of the place she's sleeping." First, she has a top-tier defensive power. Second, a direct attack on PRT HQ is essentially a declaration of war against the PRT, Protectorate, and U.S. government. Unless she suspected Lisa was part of the Slaughterhouse 9, any threat she posed to the PRT is almost certainly one Taylor would endorse and support. Third, if something did happen to the place, it isn't like they can put her anywhere worse. Finally, Taylor isn't just nursing a case of conscript syndrome, doing the absolute minimum required of her until her time is done, she's actively seeking to weaken and undermine the PRT.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

The main issue with the whole Lisa thing is that it will become a major problem if someone finds out that Taylor knew about the security breach and told no one. This becomes a problem since the PRT is looking for something to get Taylor under their thumb and knowingly allowing a security breach to happen just might be that.

Of course it is very unlikely for them to figure this out unless Taylor slips up or Lisa brings it up. But neither of them have a reason to do so which makes it very unlikely for the PRT to ever figure it out.

 

[The Unicorn]

The main issue with the whole Lisa thing is that it will become a major problem if someone finds out that Taylor knew about the security breach and told no one. This becomes a problem since the PRT is looking for something to get Taylor under their thumb and knowingly allowing a security breach to happen just might be that.

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Nope.
If they had enough control over Taylor that they could legally order her to report any security breech she was aware of things would be very different. Taylor not reporting a security breech is legally no different than any random civilian doing so and thus the PRT finding out she knew wouldn't give them any more control over her. It might give them an excuse to punish her, but the punishments they are allowed to hand our to Wards are either not going to affect her, or be considered rewards (forbidding her from participating in Ward activities for example).

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Taylor not reporting a security breech is legally no different than any random civilian doing so and thus the PRT finding out she knew wouldn't give them any more control over her.

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Failure to report a crime is itself a crime in most states if it is serious enough, and an unknown Thinker going to a paramilitary base to obtain information is certainly a serious enough crime to warrant it. Especially since the PRT does take threats to the Ward's safety, in most cases, seriously and that it was a crime against minors and the government. So it is reasonable to assume that Taylor could get in trouble for not reporting it, but as I mentioned in my previous post it is very unlikely that it will be found out since the PRT don't know Taylor can detect Thinkers. Unless of course Taylor or Lisa fuck up in some spectacular way.

If they had enough control over Taylor that they could legally order her to report any security breech she was aware of things would be very different.

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Taylor is a Ward and more specifically she is a ward of the state so by definition they do have some control over her. Just that most of said control is limited due to Taylor not playing ball but they were able to order her to take part of the tours and to interact with the other Wards (the pizza party and the upcoming movie night).

I do admit their authority over Taylor is severely curbed when it comes to her powers it is wrong to assume the PRT is entirely powerless. But their authority is the reason why Taylor has to look for loopholes and rules lawyer to hamper said authority, plus there were those hoops she had to go through for her vigilante hobby.

It might give them an excuse to punish her, but the punishments they are allowed to hand our to Wards are either not going to affect her, or be considered rewards (forbidding her from participating in Ward activities for example).

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The PRT is literally waiting for Taylor to fuck up in some meaningful way so they can slap the probationary modifier to her Wards membership. Government espionage is a serious crime and as mentioned before there are laws that state failure to report serious crimes is a crime so no they wouldn't slap Taylor with a minor punishment for not reporting the security breach.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

The main issue with the whole Lisa thing is that it will become a major problem if someone finds out that Taylor knew about the security breach and told no one. This becomes a problem since the PRT is looking for something to get Taylor under their thumb and knowingly allowing a security breach to happen just might be that.

Of course it is very unlikely for them to figure this out unless Taylor slips up or Lisa brings it up. But neither of them have a reason to do so which makes it very unlikely for the PRT to ever figure it out.

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Given how the PRT didn't notice one of the civilians was actually a local villain? The only way they find out if Taylor slips her power A) includes awareness of Thinker Powers being used on her, and B) it is precisely directional if the target is in line of sight. If the first is only found out? "I got Thought at so much, probably by the Think Tank since I didn't consent to power testing, how was I supposed to know this time was a villain?"

Also, what Crime was Lisa committing? She paid to join a public tour. You can imply she was there to scope out the Wards as competition. But that is a far cry from proving it in law. And since Lisa wasn't in costume, "For all I knew she was a parahuman thinking of signing up and wanted to see what the Wards were like before doing so. I just though she was lucky for having that choice."

Without an obvious illegal act? Calling in an alert is questionable at best, verging on "Driving while Black". I'm betting Wards only get to arrest or detain someone for an unambiguous criminal act.