• The site has now migrated to Xenforo 2. If you see any issues with the forum operation, please post them in the feedback thread.
  • Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
  • For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
  • Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
  • Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
  • The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.

Kill Six Billion Demons

jo demon said:
Actually, this just made me realize something. Has Allison not told her companions about the fact that Zoss has shown himself to her and basically confirmed that she was his successor, not boy who's name I've forgotten.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think it startes with a Z? And yes, I think around the time of the vault heist he appeared and prodded her by saying something along the lines of "maybe I chose wrong." Personally I think Allison thought Zoss meant "as a carrier" and not as his actual heir; something tells me she sees herself as a temporary holder until she can offload the key to Boi. Part of that belief is certainly self-worth issues, another I think is not wanting to deal with the incoming war and general shitfest that is this whole place.
 
The black coating Allicio had on her arm is broken. That motherfucker better have not hurt Cio.
 
https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/king-of-swords-9-114/


"The Princes of the World wielded many secret fires, for which there are many terrible and powerful names. None of them save the Ruling King were able to wield the bolts with which he smote his foes. It was such a dread power that it was rarely seen in even the ancient ages, and never again after the Universal War, where Zoss himself vanished."

– Yubam Bartoph, Jund Vatra
 
Well damn, that's probably going to put a stop to any secrecy about the key.
 
You know, I just realized: How many died? I mean since Allison got the Devil Upgrade™, how many did she kill? I'm going by memory here, but she seemed content to break the pavement and I refuse to believe they died from the likes of falling damage.
 
ZiPeppe said:
You know, I just realized: How many died? I mean since Allison got the Devil Upgrade™, how many did she kill? I'm going by memory here, but she seemed content to break the pavement and I refuse to believe they died from the likes of falling damage.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not sure.

But everyone seems to be some variety of badass normal. In other words, probably less than you think.
 
ZiPeppe said:
You know, I just realized: How many died? I mean since Allison got the Devil Upgrade™, how many did she kill? I'm going by memory here, but she seemed content to break the pavement and I refuse to believe they died from the likes of falling damage.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A minuscule number, in comparison to those killed by her refusal to finish off Mottom, but almost certainly a few. Large-scale fights in KSBD are extremely bloody, after all.
 
Valette-Serafina said:
A minuscule number, in comparison to those killed by her refusal to finish off Mottom, but almost certainly a few. Large-scale fights in KSBD are extremely bloody, after all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

*me waggles hand*

At that point in the story, Alison had nothing resembling control of the Power.

When she used the Ten Cubit Spear to destroy the remains of Haset-Om, could she instead of directed it at Nadia and killed her?

Maybe, but I personally doubt it. I don't think that Nadia, even in the midst of her freak out would have just sat there and let herself be killed.

I also don't think that killing someone with a Key is an easy thing to do. Well, more accurately, I think it's the sort of thing that oscillates between being very difficult and very easy. We're told that to use the Power you must be focused, you must be resolute. It isn't the sort of power that's very open to doubts.

I think it's a bit much to ask that Alison to be able to muster the will to kill Nadia with the Power in that moment. Yes, Alison knows that Nadia is one of the Demiurges, she's seen the ruins of Mykos, watched Nadia turn a man into a tree and kill his entourage and seen the lengths she goes to in order to prolong her life.

But she's also seen Nadia's fears. She's heard her past. Because of that, Alison emphasizes with her.

Like she said herself, "[She] showed [her] too much."

That's biting both ways in this case. Alison emphasizes with Nadia too much to be able to kill her with an instinctual use of the Key.
 
Nervaqus987 said:
*me waggles hand*

At that point in the story, Alison had nothing resembling control of the Power.

When she used the Ten Cubit Spear to destroy the remains of Haset-Om, could she instead of directed it at Nadia and killed her?

Maybe, but I personally doubt it. I don't think that Nadia, even in the midst of her freak out would have just sat there and let herself be killed.

I also don't think that killing someone with a Key is an easy thing to do. Well, more accurately, I think it's the sort of thing that oscillates between being very difficult and very easy. We're told that to use the Power you must be focused, you must be resolute. It isn't the sort of power that's very open to doubts.

I think it's a bit much to ask that Alison to be able to muster the will to kill Nadia with the Power in that moment. Yes, Alison knows that Nadia is one of the Demiurges, she's seen the ruins of Mykos, watched Nadia turn a man into a tree and kill his entourage and seen the lengths she goes to in order to prolong her life.

But she's also seen Nadia's fears. She's heard her past. Because of that, Alison emphasizes with her.

Like she said herself, "[She] showed [her] too much."

That's biting both ways in this case. Alison emphasizes with Nadia too much to be able to kill her with an instinctual use of the Key.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Alison was in control, then she ran away. Her loss of ability came directly after she stopped confronting Mottom, and, very critically, she regained it when she demonstrated a willingness to defy her directly again. That control was lesser, but so was her resolve, as she chose to use it to teleport away rather than defeat Mottom directly.

If she'd had the will to stand and fight, she would have had the power to. However, she did not even try.

That is the only advantage Mottom had over her: Resolve. Mottom was willing to act, as befits kingship; Alison was for the span of a moment, and then her hesitation left a monster living to bring devastation as she slowly came apart. Alison's choice was the most destructive possible choice.

Empathy is not murdering someone. It is not realizing their worst fears. You do not empathize with a pyrophobic by setting their house on fire, you do not empathize with an arachnophobe by covering them in brown recluses, and you do not empathize with a claustrophobe by burying them alive. That is the opposite of empathy; It is deliberate, sadistic cruelty.

Alyson left Mottom, with all her power intact, to rot and die slowly. She killed her, in the slowest way she could, without in any way safeguarding those who might be trampled underfoot in Mottom's death throes.

To summarize: It's not too much to ask that Alison to be able to muster the will to kill Nadia, because she did kill Nadia, in the least efficient and most painful manner possible; Nadia just hasn't finished dying yet, and could easily kill millions in her dying days, months, or years.

Then, after doing that, Alison ran away from the responsibility she'd just assumed.
 
You know All this time... despite having given Allison the literal LIGHTNING SPEAR of the highest god...


I didn't make the connection between Zoss and Zeus...

Makes me feel silly now that I did.
 
Valette-Serafina said:
Alison was in control, then she ran away. Her loss of ability came directly after she stopped confronting Mottom, and, very critically, she regained it when she demonstrated a willingness to defy her directly again. That control was lesser, but so was her resolve, as she chose to use it to teleport away rather than defeat Mottom directly.

If she'd had the will to stand and fight, she would have had the power to. However, she did not even try.

That is the only advantage Mottom had over her: Resolve. Mottom was willing to act, as befits kingship; Alison was for the span of a moment, and then her hesitation left a monster living to bring devastation as she slowly came apart. Alison's choice was the most destructive possible choice.

Empathy is not murdering someone. It is not realizing their worst fears. You do not empathize with a pyrophobic by setting their house on fire, you do not empathize with an arachnophobe by covering them in brown recluses, and you do not empathize with a claustrophobe by burying them alive. That is the opposite of empathy; It is deliberate, sadistic cruelty.

Alyson left Mottom, with all her power intact, to rot and die slowly. She killed her, in the slowest way she could, without in any way safeguarding those who might be trampled underfoot in Mottom's death throes.

To summarize: It's not too much to ask that Alison to be able to muster the will to kill Nadia, because she did kill Nadia, in the least efficient and most painful manner possible; Nadia just hasn't finished dying yet, and could easily kill millions in her dying days, months, or years.

Then, after doing that, Alison ran away from the responsibility she'd just assumed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Having the Will to do something and having the Ability to do it are two very different things.

Alison may have the power of the Old King, but Nadia is still one of the Seven and one of the people who climbed out of the heavy metal deathfest that was the Universal War alive and bloated with power. She's fought and killed Demiurges before.

If Alison seriously fought Nadia and tried to kill her, Nadia would have taken her apart like a Mr. Potato Head.


Also, even if Alison rolled a Nat 20 and Nadia rolled a Nat 1, people would still be dying. Nadia's empire would be picked apart by the rest of the Seven and Jagganoth may very well decide that with one of the others dead he can will against all others.

And if you say that Alison should have taken Nadia's place as ruler of her empire or as one of the Seven, I can only laugh.
 
Nervaqus987 said:
Having the Will to do something and having the Ability to do it are two very different things.

Alison may have the power of the Old King, but Nadia is still one of the Seven and one of the people who climbed out of the heavy metal deathfest that was the Universal War alive and bloated with power. She's fought and killed Demiurges before.

If Alison seriously fought Nadia and tried to kill her, Nadia would have taken her apart like a Mr. Potato Head.


Also, even if Alison rolled a Nat 20 and Nadia rolled a Nat 1, people would still be dying. Nadia's empire would be picked apart by the rest of the Seven and Jagganoth may very well decide that with one of the others dead he can will against all others.

And if you say that Alison should have taken Nadia's place as ruler of her empire or as one of the Seven, I can only laugh.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The nature of the Key is such that no, having the Will to do something specific is to have the Ability to do it. Resolve is the only requirement. This has been hammered in at every opportunity.

As for Jagganoth, he's invunerable. Whatever holds him back, it's not fear. The other seven picking apart Mottom's empire would be less harmful than leaving it in the hands of a dying demiurge who might decide to take it all with her, but that doesn't really matter.

Laugh all you like: Alison passed judgment as a King. She took up responsibility with that act, and then tossed it aside. Shrinking back from the roll she explicitly, verbally assumed is an act of naked cowardice, and every outcome of her action is her responsibility.

If she had killed Mottom, that would remain the case. The only way for her to avoid responsibility for that would have been to reject the authority of Kingship, but she did not.
 
Valette-Serafina said:
The nature of the Key is such that no, having the Will to do something specific is to have the Ability to do it. Resolve is the only requirement. This has been hammered in at every opportunity.

As for Jagganoth, he's invunerable. Whatever holds him back, it's not fear. The other seven picking apart Mottom's empire would be less harmful than leaving it in the hands of a dying demiurge who might decide to take it all with her, but that doesn't really matter.

Laugh all you like: Alison passed judgment as a King. She took up responsibility with that act, and then tossed it aside. Shrinking back from the roll she explicitly, verbally assumed is an act of naked cowardice, and every outcome of her action is her responsibility.

If she had killed Mottom, that would remain the case. The only way for her to avoid responsibility for that would have been to reject the authority of Kingship, but she did not.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

When I said "Ability" I meant it in the sense of "Can actually do the thing in the face of opposition", but I can see on looking back that I phrased it badly.

That is, when Alison says "I wanna kill Mottom" and Mottom goes "But I don't wanna die" who wins that argument? Because on one hand we have a college girl who's had the Key for barely any time at all with no idea what she's doing and on the other, we've got a centuries old sorcerer-queen who Highlander'd her way to a seventh of the Name of God.

That's really not the kind of fight that it's at all reasonable to expect Alison to win.

As for Jagganoth, he's explicitly held back by the fact that if he starts up his campaign to annihilate the multiverse, he's gotta go 1v6 with the Demiurges. Except with Nadia dead, that's 1v5 and if Incubus stays out or switches team, those odds get a lot better for Jagganoth.


As for Alison saying she'll be King. Let's leave aside that Royalty and Kingship are things with a distinct meaning in KSBD's metaphysics.

King of What? Mottom's territory?

Sure, let's say she walks up to Mottom's throne, plops herself down and shows off Nadia's severed head and says "I'm in charge now. Any of y'all bitches got a problem with that?"

Let's say that everyone there immediately bends the knee. Now Alison is in charge of theoretically 111,111 universes, practically less. Now she's gotta run around and try put a stop to all of the shit Mottom's empire and guilds do that she doesn't like. That's not something that happens over night.

Meanwhile, what about the other Demiurges? They aren't going to sit still for this, either personally or militarily.

The best possible response is that they offer her a seat at the table and Alison takes it. Meanwhile under the table, they're doing everything possible to screw her and Alison's left having to try and compete with people with centuries more experience than her at this shit. Meanwhile, her own government is going to be fighting her over the abrupt shift in policy between Mottom's "Strip Mine this place to the bedrock" and Alison's "Cut that shit out!"

The worst case response is that the rest of the Seven declare war on her and likely each other as they all rush about trying to be the first one to take Mottom's and Zoss's power for themselves. The Universal War Rekindles and everything is on fire.


The state of the multiverse in KSBD is a cold war held in tenuous balance. It was never going to last. Alison is the stick of dynamite thrown into that powder keg by Zoss. It is a situation that was brought up by many powers and many people acting on their own will.

Does she bare responsibility for the fallout of what's going on? Yes, of course. She was the one who decided to march into Mottom's palace over Cio's protest and against all common sense. She was the one who pushed to break into Yre and try and rescue Zaid, once more over strong protest.

Nadia was the one who let fear shape her life and never sought a way to prolong her life that didn't rely on her husband's demon crotch tree. Then she was the one who decided to fly her floating place straight into Yre expecting to find Alison, a good punch up, or both and was perfectly happy with any of those outcomes.

Alison bares responsibility, but it's unreasonable to foist it all on her.
 
Nervaqus987 said:
When I said "Ability" I meant it in the sense of "Can actually do the thing in the face of opposition", but I can see on looking back that I phrased it badly.

That is, when Alison says "I wanna kill Mottom" and Mottom goes "But I don't wanna die" who wins that argument? Because on one hand we have a college girl who's had the Key for barely any time at all with no idea what she's doing and on the other, we've got a centuries old sorcerer-queen who Highlander'd her way to a seventh of the Name of God.

That's really not the kind of fight that it's at all reasonable to expect Alison to win.

As for Jagganoth, he's explicitly held back by the fact that if he starts up his campaign to annihilate the multiverse, he's gotta go 1v6 with the Demiurges. Except with Nadia dead, that's 1v5 and if Incubus stays out or switches team, those odds get a lot better for Jagganoth.


As for Alison saying she'll be King. Let's leave aside that Royalty and Kingship are things with a distinct meaning in KSBD's metaphysics.

King of What? Mottom's territory?

Sure, let's say she walks up to Mottom's throne, plops herself down and shows off Nadia's severed head and says "I'm in charge now. Any of y'all bitches got a problem with that?"

Let's say that everyone there immediately bends the knee. Now Alison is in charge of theoretically 111,111 universes, practically less. Now she's gotta run around and try put a stop to all of the shit Mottom's empire and guilds do that she doesn't like. That's not something that happens over night.

Meanwhile, what about the other Demiurges? They aren't going to sit still for this, either personally or militarily.

The best possible response is that they offer her a seat at the table and Alison takes it. Meanwhile under the table, they're doing everything possible to screw her and Alison's left having to try and compete with people with centuries more experience than her at this shit. Meanwhile, her own government is going to be fighting her over the abrupt shift in policy between Mottom's "Strip Mine this place to the bedrock" and Alison's "Cut that shit out!"

The worst case response is that the rest of the Seven declare war on her and likely each other as they all rush about trying to be the first one to take Mottom's and Zoss's power for themselves. The Universal War Rekindles and everything is on fire.


The state of the multiverse in KSBD is a cold war held in tenuous balance. It was never going to last. Alison is the stick of dynamite thrown into that powder keg by Zoss. It is a situation that was brought up by many powers and many people acting on their own will.

Does she bare responsibility for the fallout of what's going on? Yes, of course. She was the one who decided to march into Mottom's palace over Cio's protest and against all common sense. She was the one who pushed to break into Yre and try and rescue Zaid, once more over strong protest.

Nadia was the one who let fear shape her life and never sought a way to prolong her life that didn't rely on her husband's demon crotch tree. Then she was the one who decided to fly her floating place straight into Yre expecting to find Alison, a good punch up, or both and was perfectly happy with any of those outcomes.

Alison bares responsibility, but it's unreasonable to foist it all on her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
When Alison says "I wanna kill Mottom" and Mottom goes "But I don't wanna die", the one with the Master Key of Kings wins. That's basically the entire point of it. Mottom's power is not equal to that of the Rising King, unless the Rising King chickens out. Which Alison did.

---

King of everything, obviously. If she doesn't like that, she shouldn't have said King when Zoss asked. She had a choice, and she chose Kingship, which is, in this context, quite clearly Royalty. To argue that there is a difference is sheer nonsense.

Would this be hard? Yes. That doesn't lessen that it is what she Chose, and then ran away from.
 
blackshadow111 said:
Then she should have chosen Peasant. Really, that's all there is to it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She is still a college girl from earth for the most part at that time. While the spine of steel that makes a king is there, it wasn't tempered yet in the coming events. Everyone starts somewhere, and I'm sure if the current Alison faced the same decision, she might have made the same choice, or she might have killed her. I can't remember if Allison actually knows that Red Man is restrained from embroiling the multiverse in a war is the other 6 demiurges.
 
This might be a little excessive said:
KOS117.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's likely going to be painful for White Chains if no one else steps in...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top