Safe For Work Worm Ideas thread

Ragnarok · Aug 25, 2015

Damn. You were compared negatively to thesevenwielder. The irony is delicious.

But seriously. AFAIK t7w doesn't have an account on this forum. Let's try and avoid bringing people from other boards into these sorts of arguments, hmm?

TanaNari said:
Ah, but that is hardly a legitimate issue. It was the tone I was setting, very much deliberately. They were absolutely bleak, but that was the nature of that part of the story. It was, for lack of a better immediate descriptor, the tone of a war story. Because that was the type of story I was going for during those arcs.

In other arcs, I dipped my toes into film noir, murder mysteries, romantic comedy, drama and moral quandary. For the Endbringer portion, it was a war story.

The thing is, war stories have the occasional up moments, which were nonexistent in those so-called 'war stories.'

Well, what do you call this:

If not the basic definition of butthurt?

Your attitude can get grating. Irritation and butthurt are two different things.

Because they're matters of *taste*, not matters of skill, story execution, or mechanisms to achieve the author's goal better than the author achieved. If swift could do any of the latter- explain to me how to set a strong tone of hopelessness and the steady ravages and trauma of constant conflict on the human psyche- better than what I was doing? Then that would be criticism.

I repeat, many people are awful at criticism. Look at the thousands of people who rant about Twilight. Most don't say anything about how to improve the writing, just that there is something wrong with it. Just because they can't write a thesis about it doesn't make their criticism any less valid.

Because this is where he threw a hissy fit and I told him I didn't give a fuck and he started complaining all the time in every thread I happen to mention anything about Amelia in.

Perhaps you shouldn't cherry-pick arguments. He said this was the "straw that broke the camel's back." And I repeat: your attitude can get grating. The reason he rants against you and Amelia is that any time you do mention that story, it's to sing its praises about how you think it did this or that better than other fics. He's far from the only one who gets irritated with it.

TanaNari · Aug 25, 2015

Ragnarok said:
Edit: Most people are terrible at criticism. Myself included. But if dozens of people are saying 'this feels wrong', maybe you should take a step back and see if there truly is an issue with what you're writing, but these people are bad at expressing why.

I'll grant you that, absolutely. I'm not expecting critics to be flawless. If someone says something feels off, and can't articulate why, I'll have a hard time giving the same kind of interest or concern as I do for more articulate and capable writers... but they deserve respect, nonetheless.

What does NOT deserve respect is when a reader decides they don't like the type of story I'm writing, and then bitches about it incessantly. The only response deserving of respect is to accept that the story I want to write is not the story they want to read, and walk away gracefully.

Lord knows I've done it enough times, myself.

Swift didn't do that. Swift had to be an entitled putz that believes that since he spent so much time enjoying all of my hard work, that somehow entitled him to dictate how the story *I* created should be done.

SwiftRosenthal said:
You advertised the story as a fixfic. You did not write a fixfic.

Well, I called it the "darkest" fix fic for a reason. And I am pretty sure what I created was a fixfic.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FixFic

A fixfic is an AU created specifically to address and fix perceived mistakes in the original work. I felt that the mistakes Wildbow made were ones of not focusing enough on the human elements- especially in the late game. And going into the Cosmic Powers thing without proper buildup or developing the characters in a way that made them a part of that sort of universe was a mistake. Again, in my opinion.

Toward the goal of fixing that, I gave the main characters the resources necessary to (try) to play ball in the Endgame field, and the time to prepare themselves. I gave them motivations and challenges to push them further along that path. I gave them the resources to fight a monster, by becoming monsters themselves. Not unlike Wildbow's approach, but I did it on a more gradual scale instead of "flip switch, now Khepri". That was how I chose to fix what I felt was Wildbow's mistakes. It's what I advertised from the beginning, and it's what I delivered. Perfectly? Fuck no. But it is what I promised and what I delivered.

Or.. did you think by "fixfic" I meant "happier than canon"? Because that's not what a fixfic is. And even then, Amelia's ending probably turns out happier than canon... well, unless you think about it too hard.

I have a love for fridge horror that might drift into the unnecessary. I'm willing to cop to that. Damn do I love my fridges. Horror, Brilliance, all of the variants. And the more I can blend them, the happier I am.

Ragnarok said:
war stories have the occasional up moments

As did Amelia. It had breaks between where characters grew, personalities evolved, people fell in love, and other, smaller problems were addressed and solved.

Ragnarok said:
Look at the thousands of people who rant about Twilight.

Correct: You even said it yourself. They *rant*. They complain. That's not criticism. And it's not valid. Really, it's quite pathetic.

I don't like Twilight, either. But I have integrity enough to say "never read it, don't want to read it, I fucking hate teen-on-monster romance stories, and Stephanie Meyers can go on being a millionaire without my money, thanks". And then be done with it. I don't complain, I don't demand my voice be heard to say I don't like something that has no impact on my life at all.

And people who do? Are just whiny bitches.

Ragnarok said:
Your attitude can get grating. Irritation and butthurt are two different things.

Oh, I know I have an attitude. I expect others to have integrity, and show contempt for those who don't. It pisses some people off. And because I have an attitude, I am not only okay with that, I kinda like it.

There's a reason I call myself a dick, and it's not because of false advertising.

Ragnarok said:
The reason he rants against you and Amelia is that any time you do mention that story, it's to sing its praises about how you think it did this or that better than other fics

Now that's just flat untrue. First, you're claiming psychic powers. Second, I bring up Amelia sparingly, and only when it is specifically relevant.

I would point to this very thread. Where I didn't even MENTION Amelia before Swift jumped in to complain. So please don't ignore circumstance in order to support your point, not when it's literally right here in front of you. AND you're accusing me of cherry picking my arguments in the same breath.

I have plenty of people who don't like my work. I have plenty of people who don't like me. And I have a handful of people who are just butthurt. Swift's in the final group.

Ragnarok · Aug 25, 2015

You are doing nothing to prove me wrong.

TanaNari · Aug 25, 2015

Pity.

You started respectable. And I treated you with respect. Why throw all that away by resorting to a combination of lies and unnecessary insults, now? It's like you're trying to provoke me.

TanaNari · Aug 25, 2015

jcogginsa said:
Not sure i'd call it a fusion, as both DC and Marvel are a separate universe that crosses over via dimensional travel.

Sorry, didn't see this earlier.

... Not a fan of those, either... unless it's settings with extremely similar power levels and tones, any type of crossover or blending just rings unpleasant for me. Basically, if I can't imagine these different characters actually live in the same universe and follow the same internal logic, I won't be interested.

I feel that sort of stuff is better saved for crack and other comedic stories. Because funny, as long as it remains funny, can get away with damn near anything. It's nothing objective, merely a matter of tastes.

Not to discourage you from writing the story you wanna write. I just won't be reading it.

(See, ladies, this is how you respectfully deal with a story that's not to your tastes.)

jcogginsa · Aug 25, 2015

TanaNari said:
Sorry, didn't see this earlier.

... Not a fan of those, either... unless it's settings with extremely similar power levels and tones, any type of crossover blending just rings unpleasant for me.

I feel that sort of stuff is better saved for crack and other comedic stories. Because funny, as long as it remains funny, can get away with damn near anything. It's nothing objective, merely a matter of tastes.

Not to discourage you from writing the story you wanna write. I just won't be reading it.

(See, ladies, this is how you respectfully deal with a story that's not to your tastes.)

Well, for the fic I didn't use the canon versions of the DC and Marvel universe. I created new incarnations of them that were on a more even playing field with the Worm verse. The DC side has heavy DCAU influence, whilst the Marvel side has heavy MCU and EMH influence

And I respect your decision not to read my story

TanaNari · Aug 25, 2015

jcogginsa said:
I created new incarnations of them that were on a more even playing field with the Worm verse.

To be fair, that's probably less "new" and more "closer to their original versions". The original Superman would get his ass destroyed in Worm. But supes had Goku levels of power creep, only for decades longer...

And I respect your decision not to read my story

Yup, nothing personal. Lemme know when you're on a different project. Anyone with the brass to murder Vista in a fic has at the very least earned my curiosity.

jcogginsa · Aug 25, 2015

TanaNari said:
To be fair, that's probably less "new" and more "closer to their original versions". The original Superman would get his ass destroyed in Worm. But supes had Goku levels of power creep, only for decades longer...

Yup, nothing personal. Lemme know when you're on a different project. Anyone with the brass to murder Vista in a fic has at the very least earned my curiosity.

It helps that i only have one scene planned for Brockton Bay, and it wouldn't involved Vista either way

TanaNari · Aug 25, 2015

I was more talking about how she's easily got the highest fanlove to screentime ratio of any character in Worm, and possibly in all of fictiondom. Killing her off is just begging for the rage of all Worm fans.

Like shoving a flagpole up your ass and mooning God during a thunderstorm.

jcogginsa · Aug 25, 2015

TanaNari said:
I was more talking about how she's easily got the highest fanlove to screentime ratio of any character in Worm, and possibly in all of fictiondom. Killing her off is just begging for the rage of all Worm fans.

Like shoving a flagpole up your ass and mooning God during a thunderstorm.

Well yeah, that too XD

volantredx · Aug 25, 2015

Ragnarok said:
You are doing nothing to prove me wrong.

Were you expecting to be proven wrong?

Megaolix · Aug 25, 2015

Guys? Going to have to ask you to tone it down a bit here.

Ragnarok · Aug 25, 2015

TanaNari said:
I was more talking about how she's easily got the highest fanlove to screentime ratio of any character in Worm, and possibly in all of fictiondom. Killing her off is just begging for the rage of all Worm fans.

I thought we were talking about Vista, not Amy.

TanaNari · Aug 25, 2015

No. Amy's apparently the default Waifu for many, but she had a fairly significant amount of screentime, and a good number of people hate her character.

Vista... and Sveta, too, but not to the same degree... barely showed up and has basically zero haters at all and is incredibly popular despite that.

Guile · Aug 27, 2015

I'm just going to leave an SMBC comic here:

Besides being funny, it does make me wonder.

At what point does your protagonist become just another face in the crowd? Is it when they join the PRT and get hopelessly mired in bureaucracy? Is it when you fight the eldritch monsters and tens or hundreds of capes die? Or is it when you're just another Taylor in a crowd of Taylor stories, with nothing noteworthy or special about you, retreading the same path hundreds of Taylors have trod before?

TanaNari · Aug 27, 2015

Guile said:
Or is it when you're just another Taylor in a crowd of Taylor stories, with nothing noteworthy or special about you, retreading the same path hundreds of Taylors have trod before?

Is this your subtle hint to get others to write something other than alt-power fics that then go on to repeat canon?

Because if it is, I heartily approve.

volantredx · Aug 27, 2015

Guile said:
I'm just going to leave an SMBC comic here:

Besides being funny, it does make me wonder.

At what point does your protagonist become just another face in the crowd? Is it when they join the PRT and get hopelessly mired in bureaucracy? Is it when you fight the eldritch monsters and tens or hundreds of capes die? Or is it when you're just another Taylor in a crowd of Taylor stories, with nothing noteworthy or special about you, retreading the same path hundreds of Taylors have trod before?

The one issue with that comic is that raw numbers is the least that heroes should care about. It's like the story of the Starfish thrower, yeah in the grand scheme crime might not go down, but that doesn't diminish the importance stopping crime would have on the would be victims.

volantredx · Aug 27, 2015

So a little bit ago I updated my story Phobophobia on SB/SV. Well during the writing for that chapter I ended up cutting a scene in the end due to feeling it didn't really fit where I wanted the story to go. Still not one to destroy old writing I figured I'd put it here as a non-canon omake. Why here? Well shit gets a bit intense toward the end and I'm not really sure if it'd be allowed on the other sites.

To set the stage for those who don't read Phobophobia, Taylor, who grows stronger by feeding on the fears of others and lacks a fear response of her own has attacked Emma in the hall of Winslow and had to be pried off by Sophia. This is Sophia and Emma in the nurse's office after the attack

Phobophobia deleted scene

Emma let out a harsh hissing noise as she felt along her her jaw line. Sophia could see that bruises were already starting to form. Seeing the bluish marks against Emma's perfect skin set Sophia's teeth on edge. Where did that bitch Hebert get off attacking her betters like that? Sophia would need time to figure out what sort of punishment that stupid bitch had coming.

"Shit," Emma bit out. "I guess it's lucky I didn't have a gig this week. Still I might be able to get the worst of it hidden with a little foundation."

"Why would you want to?" Sophia questioned. "I say don't try to hide any of it. You earned those bruises. Mark of pride and all that."

"What pride? I got blindsided by fucking Hebert of all people."

"Still you held your own. Most of the bitches around here would have dropped right away or pissed themselves. You kept at it. I've been telling you for years, you're a fighter. Always have been."

Emma shot Sophia a wide grin at her words. The sight made Sophia's heart speed up. She looked like a goddess, and if she was a goddess that made Sophia like those myth heroes, slaying monsters and shit and then getting to be with the hottest chick in the world.

"Still it's not like Hebert is exactly hardcore," Emma pointed out. "Where'd that come from anyway? She's always just took it like the little crybaby that she is, why did she get crazy all the sudden?"

"Maybe it's like a horse or something?" At Emma's look Sophia explained. "Well Hebert's no fighter, she just runs and shit, but if you get her in the right situation she kicks. Like a horse."

"More like a mule." The two of them giggled at the joke before Emma let out another hiss. "Ah, man she clonked me good. My head is killing me."

"Well it was good I got there when I did. Hebert's more like horse than you'd think, I've had grown ass banggers go down easier than her. Who knows what would have happened."

"My hero, seems like you're always there to save me when I really need it."

Sophia could feel her cheeks heat up at Emma's praise. She may not have needed anyone's approval, but it was nice to see at least someone thought she was a hero.

"I only wish I could do something in exchange." Emma said, pulling Sophia out of her thoughts.

"Huh?"

"Well you do all this stuff for me, saving my life, teaching me what it means to be strong. I never get to do enough for you."

"You do plenty," Sophia told her, but in the back of her mind old fantasies started to come to life. This was her chance to make good on them. "But if you're so dead set on giving something back I might have an idea."

"Oh?"

"Well," Sophia drew the word out as she moved closer up the bed to where Emma was. "There's usual something the person the hero saves gives them, especially when it's a pretty girl."

Emma's gave her a weak smile, "I don't get what you're talking about."

"Sure you do, the hero slays the dragon and the princess falls into his arms."

"Come on Sophia, this isn't funny."

"It's not a joke," with that Sophia moved her face inches from Emma's, whose smile slowly slid off her face.

"Hey listen I'm not...that way."

"You don't have to be," Sophia told her as she moved in for the kiss. As first kisses go it was hardly something to light Sophia's world up. Emma was clearly overwhelmed with everything, so she did little than sit back and let Sophia do all the work. Still it was Emma and that was enough for Sophia, they'd have plenty of time to improve anyhow. Pulling back she took in the stunned face of her..girlfriend Sophia guessed. They'd have to make it official later. "See, we can be so good together."

"Sophia, I-"

"Shh," Sophia hushed her new girlfriend placing her finger lightly on Emma's mouth. "You don't have to say anything. It's just what heroes should get, otherwise they might stop being people's heroes, you know?"

Emma just nodded, her eyes still wide.

Sophia got up from the bed and placed a kiss on top of Emma's head. "I'll call you after school, once I figure out our first real date. See you latter Em's."

XxXXxX

As hard as it may be to believe this is the toned down less creepy/rapey version.

evildice · Aug 27, 2015

volantredx said:
As hard as it may be to believe this is the toned down less creepy/rapey version.

Sophia date-raping Emma would honestly make for a pretty good relationship reevaluation moment.

I could totally see that as backstory element for Nyctophopbia (which is of course a different story).

Prince Charon · Aug 29, 2015

volantredx said:
As hard as it may be to believe this is the toned down less creepy/rapey version.

OK, then I don't want to read the more creepy version.

Of course, now you've got me imagining Taylor saving Emma from Sophia. If Emma then found out who Phobia was, she might even trigger from the shock, as she's been around Sophia long enough to potentially get a bud.

volantredx · Aug 29, 2015

Prince Charon said:
OK, then I don't want to read the more creepy version.

I don't have the creepy version anymore. It was rewritten into its present form. The major difference is that Sophia is more aware of Emma not going along with it and ignoring it because she feels she's earned Emma's affections no matter Emma's feelings on the matter.

Drak4806 · Aug 29, 2015

evildice said:
Sophia date-raping Emma would honestly make for a pretty good relationship reevaluation moment.

I could totally see that as backstory element for Nyctophopbia (which is of course a different story).

Prince Charon said:
Of course, now you've got me imagining Taylor saving Emma from Sophia. If Emma then found out who Phobia was, she might even trigger from the shock, as she's been around Sophia long enough to potentially get a bud.

I actually want to see something like this.

In fact I've thought of two different idea based on this. For both I'm thinking that after like a year of friendship Sophia starts coming on to Emma. Emma feels uncomfortable by it but since she feels like she owes Sophia goes along with it at first. Overtime Sophia starts going further Emma starts resisting and Sophia becomes more aggressive. And then in the November before canon Sophia rapes Emma. Emma gets really messed up psychologically by this. She blames herself for this, thinks Sophia did nothing wrong, etc. Essentially Emma starts acting like a classic abuse victim and enters into a abusive relationship with Sophia.

The first idea takes place during winter break. Taylor is jogging in the park and comes across Emma with a split lip and a black eye. As much as Taylor dislikes Emma she tries to help her and asks what happened. Emma replies with the classic "I fell." Taylor doesn't buy it and then Sophia shows up and when she does Emma flinches and starts to act scared. Taylor realizes that Sophia did this to Emma and confronts her. They argue and Sophia realizes that she can't let Taylor talk to anyone decides that since they're in a park with no one around just to kill Taylor to shut her up. She stabs Taylor and then both Taylor and Emma trigger. Taylor from realizing she's going to die and Emma from realizing that Taylor is going to be murdered for trying to help her. And then Sophia either accidentally gets killed, flees, or something. The rest of the story deals with Emma latching onto to Taylor for stability and trying to repair their relationship. Depending on what happens the PRT might find out and the story might glance at them trying to deal this this cluster fuck.

the second idea takes place during Taylor's first night out. Instead of running into Lung she finds Shadow Stalker having just finished beating up a couple of E88 members. Taylor follows SS and finds her meeting Emma in an alley. Sophia's blood is up from beating up those gangbangers and wants to have sex with Emma right then and there. Emma resists by saying that the alley is really dirty and she's not in the mood. Sophia says that Emma always gets in the mood after she starts. Emma says no and she's not in the mood. Sophia slaps Emma and tells her that she better get in the mood because they're going to fuck right now. Taylor realizing what's going on attacks Sophia with her bugs. I don't if Emma would run away or stays but eventually Taylor confronts Emma about what she saw.

volantredx · Aug 29, 2015

Drak4806 said:
They argue and Sophia realizes that she can't let Taylor talk to anyone decides that since they're in a park with no one around just to kill Taylor to shut her up. She stabs Taylor and then both Taylor and Emma trigger. Taylor from realizing she's going to die and Emma from realizing that Taylor is going to be murdered for trying to help her. And then Sophia either accidentally gets killed, flees, or something. The rest of the story deals with Emma latching onto to Taylor for stability and trying to repair their relationship. Depending on what happens the PRT might find out and the story might glance at them trying to deal this this cluster fuck.

You had something up until this point. I for one couldn't see Taylor having any reaction beyond "You deserve each other" and I really can't see Sophia deciding to keep Taylor quiet through murder. The thing is with Abusers like Sophia would be they don't see their actions as all that wrong. They can see when they go over bored, but they figure some flowers and a few nice dates the whole thing will be over with. Basically they see hitting their SO the same way most people would view forgetting a birthday.

Drak4806 said:
the second idea takes place during Taylor's first night out. Instead of running into Lung she finds Shadow Stalker having just finished beating up a couple of E88 members. Taylor follows SS and finds her meeting Emma in an alley. Sophia's blood is up from beating up those gangbangers and wants to have sex with Emma right then and there. Emma resists by saying that the alley is really dirty and she's not in the mood. Sophia says that Emma always gets in the mood after she starts. Emma says no and she's not in the mood. Sophia slaps Emma and tells her that she better get in the mood because they're going to fuck right now. Taylor realizing what's going on attacks Sophia with her bugs. I don't if Emma would run away or stays but eventually Taylor confronts Emma about what she saw.

This one works better, and if you want a real twist have Emma come to Sophia's rescue. It'd be very typical of abuse victims to defend the person victimizing them and would put Taylor in a bit of a bind. On one hand Emma is in a horrible situation, but it's one that she seems unwilling to fix and Taylor is now in the position of it being her word alone that a known hero was going to rape her girlfriend. Emma would likely lie to protect Sophia or just out of personal shame and Sophia would certainly lie.

Drak4806 · Aug 29, 2015

volantredx said:
You had something up until this point. I for one couldn't see Taylor having any reaction beyond "You deserve each other" and I really can't see Sophia deciding to keep Taylor quiet through murder. The thing is with Abusers like Sophia would be they don't see their actions as all that wrong. They can see when they go over bored, but they figure some flowers and a few nice dates the whole thing will be over with. Basically they see hitting their SO the same way most people would view forgetting a birthday.

This one works better, and if you want a real twist have Emma come to Sophia's rescue. It'd be very typical of abuse victims to defend the person victimizing them and would put Taylor in a bit of a bind. On one hand Emma is in a horrible situation, but it's one that she seems unwilling to fix and Taylor is now in the position of it being her word alone that a known hero was going to rape her girlfriend. Emma would likely lie to protect Sophia or just out of personal shame and Sophia would certainly lie.

The first idea takes place before the locker so I don't think Taylor would be that apathetic to it. And considering Sophia a ward I have a feeling she knows that this would this is wrong and get her arrested.

Looking back I think the first idea might be better if it takes place the morning after Sophia rapes Emma for the first time. Sophia's decision to kill Taylor might make more since that way.

The second idea might involve Taylor killing Sophia accidentally by underestimating how potent her bugs venom is.

I don't know I just came up with these ideas kind of quickly.

jcogginsa · Aug 30, 2015

Aw, Crap the Worm/DC/Marvel story has updated!

Kolarthecool · Aug 30, 2015

Has anyone seen a fic where someone gets the power to make Sentinels? I would think that giant robots that can track and subdue parahumans would be a good read, especially if they're the power copiers from the latest xmen movie.

evildice · Aug 30, 2015

Kolarthecool said:
Has anyone seen a fic where someone gets the power to make Sentinels? I would think that giant robots that can track and subdue parahumans would be a good read, especially if they're the power copiers from the latest xmen movie.

That would be interesting, but it'd need an OCP justification -- there's no way the Entities would allow that kind of Tinker power to exist, since it subverts their whole Cycle pretty fiercely.

TanaNari · Aug 30, 2015

I dunno. Depends on the "perfect world" vision of constant war and conflict. If "sentinel tech" looked like a more efficient way to breed their desired collapse into anarchy than the Endbringers... then sentinel tech is what they'd hand out. Not like the stuff is a threat to their Avatars. And a war between unpowered and powered natives could be interesting research.

Master of Squirrel-fu · Aug 30, 2015

evildice said:
That would be interesting, but it'd need an OCP justification -- there's no way the Entities would allow that kind of Tinker power to exist, since it subverts their whole Cycle pretty fiercely.

To be fair the Entities made some pretty stupid decisions when giving out powers. The biggest being giving out the only power that can pose a legitimate threat to them and to a lesser extent Nilbog, Bonesaw, and Panacea who are capable of whipping out humanity pretty easily.

I could see it as a new Type of shard, a "Container" shard that holds onto interesting bits of technology and replicates them. The Parahuman doesn't build anything, they ask the shard to provide X and the shard just drops it off.

Kolarthecool · Aug 30, 2015

Master of Squirrel-fu said:
To be fair the Entities made some pretty stupid decisions when giving out powers. The biggest being giving out the only power that can pose a legitimate threat to them and to a lesser extent Nilbog, Bonesaw, and Panacea who are capable of whipping out humanity pretty easily.

I could see it as a new Type of shard, a "Container" shard that holds onto interesting bits of technology and replicates them. The Parahuman doesn't build anything, they ask the shard to provide X and the shard just drops it off.

Not to mention Flechette who can hurt and maybe kill them.

Safe For Work Worm Ideas thread

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