Twisted Pinwheel

[Adyen]

Yeah, I was asking 'what if her chakra system had developed in such a warped fashion due to the constant drain from it that the mechanism for her sharingan to deactivate is conspicuously absent', though.

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I did bring up a similar point in that maybe Mio couldn't recover up to her maximum amount of chakra due to the constant drain via her eyes..

 

[rcnr]

Even if Mio's Sharingan impairs her regen, it should either fill to capacity eventually or be gradually reduced until she's forced to turn it off. Another outcome implies that Mio is gaining more chakra capacity from using the Sharingan than she is chakra to fill it, or that it's stunted her chakra regen compared to her capacity.

If we wanted to figure out if it's true, we'd have to engineer a situation where she turns her eyes off to spare her memory and doesn't use chakra. Kind of difficult.

 

[Xicree]

Even if Mio's Sharingan impairs her regen, it should either fill to capacity eventually or be gradually reduced until she's forced to turn it off. Another outcome implies that Mio is gaining more chakra capacity from using the Sharingan than she is chakra to fill it, or that it's stunted her chakra regen compared to her capacity.

If we wanted to figure out if it's true, we'd have to engineer a situation where she turns her eyes off to spare her memory and doesn't use chakra. Kind of difficult.

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Its most likely that Miho's chakra efficiency is actually near perfect... so she's using only a tiny fraction of the normal chakra costs others would need to.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

Maybe her sharingan automatically turns off when she goes to sleep, and she just reflexively activates it the moment she starts regaining consciousness.

 

[Bobs Beard]

This isn't the first time we've chatted about the interplay between MIO's eyes, chakra reserves/regen and all that, and we've gotten no closer to resolving it.

This seems like a question we can't at all answer right now without authorial input, and it seems Chibi'd like us to be as uncertain about what's what as MIO would be, if she was posed this question IC.

Instead, I propose a different question to focus on, one that, perhaps, would be easier to reach a resolution with.

If:

• MIO's eyes are darn near always on,
• She's a pre-massacre Uchiha,
• Fire techniques in general/the Grand Fireball in specific are considered iconic Uchiha techniques,
• We have at least some canonical basis to assume that at least some Uchiha practice in the clan compound (where MIO also lives)
• MIO was able to pick up Body Flicker from just watching one Uchiha use it (with no mention she had to witness it multiple times)

THEN... why doesn't she have any Fire Jutsu memorized?

Even if she's not actively trying to steal them, having passive-theft-able eyes on while living in a place where such things are at least sometimes done should make it happen anyway.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

This isn't the first time we've chatted about the interplay between MIO's eyes, chakra reserves/regen and all that, and we've gotten no closer to resolving it.

This seems like a question we can't at all answer right now without authorial input, and it seems Chibi'd like us to be as uncertain about what's what as MIO would be, if she was posed this question IC.

Instead, I propose a different question to focus on, one that, perhaps, would be easier to reach a resolution with.

If:

• MIO's eyes are darn near always on,
• She's a pre-massacre Uchiha,
• Fire techniques in general/the Grand Fireball in specific are considered iconic Uchiha techniques,
• We have at least some canonical basis to assume that at least some Uchiha practice in the clan compound (where MIO also lives)
• MIO was able to pick up Body Flicker from just watching one Uchiha use it (with no mention she had to witness it multiple times)

THEN... why doesn't she have any Fire Jutsu memorized?

Even if she's not actively trying to steal them, having passive-theft-able eyes on while living in a place where such things are at least sometimes done should make it happen anyway.

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Maybe they don't allow her near the lake where they practice it, or practice it in private rock gardens, or keep an active MIO watch while practicing.

It's a conspiiiraaacyyy~

 

[Chibi-Reaper]

It's less she's not allowed and more Mio doesn't care, mostly.

The Uchiha aren't practicing their fire techniques in the roads and eateries because if you fuck up then shit burns down, and Mio typically gives dedicated training areas a wide berth.

Sometimes someone as an individual will drag her screaming to a training ground, but typically Mio is decent at dodging them, they typically want to focus on clan taijutsu even when they do nab her, and the Uchiha clan as a whole tends to be happier not thinking about that kid who was born with the sharingan on right out of the womb and against every expectation of clan pride tends to wallow in smug mediocrity instead of applying herself.

They're also a touch to proud to go around flashing powerful jutsu in front of that one kid just in case she happens to start picking them up and actually living up to the sharingan hype for fucks sake how can you be such a disgrace.

Also, while Ma was alive she would straight up stab dudes who tried to make you live up to that clan hype, because she was watching you nearly die of exhaustion every day even without that extra pressure, and though that's settled down enough that doing things other than walking from your bed to food isn't a risky proposition any more, it sort of resulted in a combination of people being slow to forget that and Mio's habit of training negligence settling in.

 

[Bobs Beard]

Maybe they don't allow her near the lake where they practice it,

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Wasn't that lake some combination of 'clan heir training place' and 'obviously you'd practice over SOME water, you are literally playing with fire'?

I was under the impression that the Uchiha clan compound had more than one pond-type place, given how many Uchiha there are - elsewise, they'd either need to queu up for their turn, or practice outside the clan's grounds. Given the tetchy nature of Uchiha/rest-of-village relations right now, I'm disinclined to believe the latter.

or practice it in private rock gardens,

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Generally rock gardens don't have rocks so large you can wholly and easily hide people behind them, and I don't recall seeing the Uchiha compound portrayed as an exception to that paradime.

So that leaves two sorts of wide, open, easily-viewed-from-a-distance sorts of places for training... which are the hardest of places to prevent someone from seeing.

or keep an active MIO watch while practicing.

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Certainly possible, but I'd like to think that if something like this was happening, we'd have already seen reference to it in some of the updates where MIO visited the clan.

Given how many Uchiha there are, they'd kind of have to do it all the time, as there'd presumably be some Uchiha practicing stealable techs at any given time.

That seems an unusually large investment of manpower, and I don't really see a benefit to them.

It's a conspiiiraaacyyy~

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It'd pretty much have to be to stop MIO from picking some stuff up - and again, I'd ask why they'd bother.

It can be hard to remember it, but the pre-massacre Uchiha aren't stupid. Unacceptably prideful, delusional over their family's secret history, drunk on their power - all of those things are true, but none of those things are outright dumbness.

Which leads to the question; what do the Uchiha get as a benefit, out of willfully restricting how much training an Uchiha-genius-kid can do, when they've already established a precedent of wanting that kid to be as impressive as possible?

It's less she's not allowed and more Mio doesn't care, mostly.

The Uchiha aren't practicing their fire techniques in the roads and eateries because if you fuck up then shit burns down, and Mio typically gives dedicated training areas a wide berth.

Sometimes someone as an individual will drag her screaming to a training ground, but typically Mio is decent at dodging them, they typically want to focus on clan taijutsu even when they do nab her, and the Uchiha clan as a whole tends to be happier not thinking about that kid who was born with the sharingan on right out of the womb and against every expectation of clan pride tends to wallow in smug mediocrity instead of applying herself.

They're also a touch to proud to go around flashing powerful jutsu in front of that one kid just in case she happens to start picking them up and actually living up to the sharingan hype for fucks sake how can you be such a disgrace.

Also, while Ma was alive she would straight up stab dudes who tried to make you live up to that clan hype, because she was watching you nearly die of exhaustion every day even without that extra pressure, and though that's settled down enough that doing things other than walking from your bed to food isn't a risky proposition any more, it sort of resulted in a combination of people being slow to forget that and Mio's habit of training negligence settling in.

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I get all of what you're saying here, but I'm still having a hard time due to the specifics.

That is:

• If they were a smaller, less populous clan, it'd be far easier to believe that there weren't coincidental moments where Mio was looking in a direction while walking in the compound, and an Uchiha did a technique while in her field of view. But they have scores and scores of members, enough to field regular ninja and populate a village-scale policing force - that's a lot of bodies to clog up the compound/get in Mio's line of sight while they're doing shit.
• If they weren't so obsessed with making themselves look awesome/hadn't in-story mildly tortured Mio for failing to be maximally cool-looking in spars, I could buy them 'respecting' the precedent Mio's mom established. But Elders were willing to grab helpers to 'teach her a lesson' over something as minor as that - and here we are talking about a Sharingan'd Uchiha who cannot use fire techniques. Clan Head Fugaku had interesting things to say about fire-less Uchiha in general to his younger son, let alone to those that have them special eyes.
• If Mio's ma was still alive, I could see her continuing to nosell things despite the above two points.

But Mio's ma isn't alive, the clan isn't sparse and it is stupendously invested in making its every member as cool as possible.

I mean heck, all it'd take is one Uchiha who's been tapped to ensure she's trained post-mom-death physically holding her eyes open and making her look at someone, and boom, she's at least able to say 'yes, I can use fire techs'.

Such an effort from pissed off clan members would take a minute, if that - given the ease of achieving that and the established precedent of them not giving a fuck about what she actually wants, it's odd that such a moment hasn't happened in all this time.

I'm just having a really hard time gelling this with what resulted from that one bout of lackluster spars, where her clanmates proved exceedingly willing and able to ignore her wants and impose their own on her, and to do so promptly to address a percieved issue.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

Maybe they're waiting to see if she's completely unsalvageable as a piece of propaganda- they'll force her to learn it the moment Sasuke is about to learn it/learns it, but for now they're using it as another measurement of her initiative, and whether they might be better off coming up with a more shady use of her life.

 

[Chibi-Reaper]

While she's a disgrace in private, in not stalking everyone around the training grounds and stealing their jutsu like she's supposed to in traditional just-activated-my-sharingan Uchiha fashion, things are more tolerable and people are less compelled to actively correct the issue instead of groan and hope she shapes up after a while.

When she's a public disgrace, in some fashion along the lines of being dragged into a relatively and disgustingly even-ish exchange with the class dunce and local pariah, that bites a lot more at the old pride because now she's showing off all the ways she doesn't stack up in front of the eyes of other clan children and heirs.

As far as the size of the clan goes, not all Uchiha are ninja. In fact, many aren't. There are uchiha bakers and stuff. Uchiha that work forges to supply the clan armories, and Uchiha that manage the clan finances. ... Really, the whole 'yeah, kill everyone now' was/will-be kind of an extreme solution to the problem, when there would probably be dozens of Uchiha that wouldn't really have made a notable difference even if they knew about and threw their full weight behind the whole coup thing. Not even all Uchiha ninja ever activate the Sharingan, though yeah, if you do activate it you're more or less bound for ninja-hood, the police force, or a combination of both.

 

[Bobs Beard]

While she's a disgrace in private, in not stalking everyone around the training grounds and stealing their jutsu like she's supposed to in traditional just-activated-my-sharingan Uchiha fashion, things are more tolerable and people are less compelled to actively correct the issue instead of groan and hope she shapes up after a while.

When she's a public disgrace, in some fashion along the lines of being dragged into a relatively and disgustingly even-ish exchange with the class dunce and local pariah, that bites a lot more at the old pride because now she's showing off all the ways she doesn't stack up in front of the eyes of other clan children and heirs.

As far as the size of the clan goes, not all Uchiha are ninja. In fact, many aren't. There are uchiha bakers and stuff. Uchiha that work forges to supply the clan armories, and Uchiha that manage the clan finances. ... Really, the whole 'yeah, kill everyone now' was/will-be kind of an extreme solution to the problem, when there would probably be dozens of Uchiha that wouldn't really have made a notable difference even if they knew about and threw their full weight behind the whole coup thing. Not even all Uchiha ninja ever activate the Sharingan, though yeah, if you do activate it you're more or less bound for ninja-hood, the police force, or a combination of both.

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...Huh, okay.

So from this, it'd seem that a takeaway is 'a Sharingan'd academy student is NOT being a public disgrace by failing to know Uchiha fire jutsu of any sort', is that right?

Obviously I'd assumed that it was a public disgrace issue as I'd thought her having the Sharingan would elevate her expectations to that level, though it's now seeming clear I was thinking that more from having used Itachi as a reference point, and not accounting enough for her fringe-ness relative to his clan head's family membership.

 

[Nanimani]

• If they were a smaller, less populous clan, it'd be far easier to believe that there weren't coincidental moments where Mio was looking in a direction while walking in the compound, and an Uchiha did a technique while in her field of view. But they have scores and scores of members, enough to field regular ninja and populate a village-scale policing force - that's a lot of bodies to clog up the compound/get in Mio's line of sight while they're doing shit.

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They don't practice in the compound because throwing fireballs around your neighbor's house is not the smartest idea.

 

[Bobs Beard]

They don't practice in the compound because throwing fireballs around your neighbor's house is not the smartest idea.

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It's a moot point now, but you seem to have forgotten how big and sprawling and not-that-choked-with-buildings the clan compound is - or how many chunks of it are nonflammable, as shown in the manga and the non-filler anime - big bits of water, open clearings, rock gardens; got it all.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

I wonder...
If MIO were less of an unmotivated disappointment, would they be actively trying to set her up with Sasuke, Itachi, or Shisui or somesuch?
Or would there be preexisting internal politicsy arrangements regarding them?

 

[Bobs Beard]

If MIO were less of an unmotivated disappointment, would they be actively trying to set her up with Sasuke, Itachi, or Shisui or somesuch?

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You do remember that chat with Shisui about exactly this topic, right?

 

[Chibi-Reaper]

In the academy, if you want to show off fire jutsu that's one thing. That's just meeting expectations for an Uchiha. But you probably aren't going to be called on to demonstrate, since you're a student, and more importantly since fire jutsu aren't actually on the list of things an academy student is expected to learn before genin exams.

If you don't know fire jutsu and aren't showing off that you don't know the jutsu, then how is anyone going to know what you do or don't know? Privately, even the busier-bodies of the Uchiha can't be sure that she hasn't gotten around to stealing someone's fireball yet. Or learned it on her own, if she insists on doing it that way.

... So, still a private shame, but not a public one unless you start actively showing off things you aren't able to do.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

You do remember that chat with Shisui about exactly this topic, right?

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Only insomuch as MIO joked about it.
They're trying to set us up with some rando instead.

But then...maybe they'd be more willing to break any standing arrangements if someone actually indicated interest of their own accord.

 

[The Nobody]

There are uchiha bakers and stuff.

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Now I'm thinking - if MIO steals some baking jutsu, will this quest turn into Yakitatte! Konoha?

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

Now I'm thinking - if MIO steals some baking jutsu, will this quest turn into Yakitatte! Konoha?

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[dumbjoke]Embedding genjutsu into food to be consumed by any citizen of Konoha is illegal (barring consensual instances for training purposes) under the Akimichi-Ryouga accord of Nidaime year 4, created in response to a retired ninja working for the Akimichi's restaurant driving the civilian patrons insane with genjutsu embedded into the food.

He was prosecutable before the accord, but they wanted to make that sort of chicanery explicitly out of the way.[dumbjoke]

 

[Adyen]

Now I'm thinking - if MIO steals some baking jutsu, will this quest turn into Yakitatte! Konoha?

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Noes~! If we do this, we'll become that guy in Soma who just steals other people's cooking techniques~!

 

[Bobs Beard]

In the academy, if you want to show off fire jutsu that's one thing. That's just meeting expectations for an Uchiha. But you probably aren't going to be called on to demonstrate, since you're a student, and more importantly since fire jutsu aren't actually on the list of things an academy student is expected to learn before genin exams.

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...Ah-ha.

I'd like to direct your attention to one of the two canon academy teachers besides Iruka and Mizuki: Suzume and Daikoku Funeno - specifically the latter.

He was not only one of Itachi's academy teachers, but also immediately compared Sasuke (the only other Uchiha kiddo we got to see in canon) to him upon getting the kiddo as a student.

Given how bullshit Itachi was, and that Daikoku tried to fit him into the 'bullshit Uchiha prodigy' box for more than an instant despite Sasuke clearly just being a nice lil' tyke and little more at that point in time, it'd seem more than fair to assume he'd do the same with Mio. Whatever she might lose by not being main line/Itachi's direct sibling, she'd presumably make up by matching Itachi's 'had Sharingan active on hitting the academy'. Further, given the age differentials it doesn't seem a stretch to assume the guy also saw Shisui as a student - one of the rare examples of a non stick-up-butt Uchiha. Given all that, it'd seem entirely feasible for Mio to be called on to do shit Itachi could do (by Daikoku), and through that transition a private disgrace to a public one, and thusly make the clan care.

Using 'one of those Uchiha genius shits' to demonstrate to the rest of the class what they should be shooting for/could be achieving... or so would Daikoku's reasoning go in calling on Mio to spit fire, presumably.

Just putting that out there, largely because I had 100% forgotten these two existed, and weren't filler but even existed in the core manga - it's nice to know there's twice as many canon teachers to draw from for scenes, wholly separate of the above musings.

EDIT: The best Naruto pic I've ever seen

Spoiler: FUCK YOU NO JUTSU

 

[Winged One]

Hm. Maybe we could steal a fire jutsu so that when the elders decide to beat the shit out of us for not knowing any fire jutsu, we can (try to) set them on fire?

 

[Bobs Beard]

Hm. Maybe we could steal a fire jutsu so that when the elders decide to beat the shit out of us for not knowing any fire jutsu, we can (try to) set them on fire?

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From how Chibi's responses have been phrased, it appears that Mio's actively resisting their efforts to shove such shit in her.

Regardless of how we may know this is incredibly dumb of her from a meta-informed position, in character?

All she's got is 'well, THESE moves my copy eyes'd work on my shit-ass clan keeps being a dick about - well fuck them, I'm not playing ball!', which is pretty understandable as kiddo rebellion against corporal-punishment-minded authoritarians.

At this point, it may be that it's more in-character to look at ways Mio might get Fire techs from places other than her fire-obsessed clan, if one absolutely must have such - like via Daikoku's mid-lesson prompt to demonstrate, or just stumbling on their use on some training ground or another.

Not ideal, but narratively reasonable.

 

[Adyen]

She also knows that she does not have enough chakra to use it property (which begs the question why is it so small), so it's not JUST spite.

 

[Chibi-Reaper]

Gonna be honest, it's been a while since I've read the anime or watched the manga, so I'm hazy on the daikoku guy. Suzume I remembered as the kunoichi instructor.

Still speaking honestly, Mio's knee-jerk reaction at this point to being asked to demonstrate fire jutsu is going to be to not move from her seat and flick matchlight jutsus at the instructor long after she's told to stop.

Edit: I should note and/or clarify: Her aim is poor.

 

[SCO]

With Mio's luck Obito will start to see himself/madara on her and try to make her batshit insane like Madara did to him. IIRC Madara had a niffy 'compress years on a few seconds' genjutsu on his eye that might do the trick for brainwashing/non-physical training from hell. That might appeal to him, Madara teaches him, he teaches fem!Madara...

Guys, i just thought of a horrifying possibility. We were born on the same day as the Kyuubi attack... so there's a possibility we're the Madara reincarnation? I believe Sasuke is slightly older than Naruto so probably not, but the internet says that there is contradicting info that mentions Sasuke being the same age as Naruto (ie: the Kyuubi attack). And it's not like the chakra essence couldn't have gone to a different (younger) baby in the womb anyway.

What if we're destined to get punched by Naruto as often as possible?

 

[The Nobody]

EDIT: The best Naruto pic I've ever seen

Spoiler: FUCK YOU NO JUTSU

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I've read a fanfic where this jutsu is used by Rock Lee, of all people. The fanfic as a whole was less then stellar (in my opinion), but that particular scene was brilliant.

 

[Koled]

Guys, i just thought of a horrifying possibility. We were born on the same day as the Kyuubi attack... so there's a possibility we're the Madara reincarnation?

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Sasuke is not the Madara reincarnation.He is the Indra one or at least has his chacrka ,just like Madara did.So we can still be Madara reborn.Even if the only examples we have on reincarnation in setting have to do with the chacka and not the souls, it appears that the souls stay in the pure world forever after death ,unless yanked by the edo tensei thanks for that Tobirama, so it is alittle iffy.

 

[Adyen]

What if we're destined to get punched by Naruto as often as possible?

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Then clearly we just need to punch him as often as possible as well.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

Sasuke is not the Madara reincarnation.He is the Indra one or at least has his chacrka ,just like Madara did.So we can still be Madara reborn.Even if the only examples we have on reincarnation in setting have to do with the chacka and not the souls, it appears that the souls stay in the pure world forever after death ,unless yanked by the edo tensei thanks for that Tobirama, so it is alittle iffy.

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Or unless they're the Sage of Six Paths and decide to go on walkabout.
Or a Rinnegan user resurrects them.

Or unless they're Obito, and decide to go outside for just a minute to let Kakashi borrow his full eye power for just a 'mo.