Twisted Pinwheel

[Plotvitalnpc]

So Mio & Saki are of the age to be chasing Gais... get it

Click to shrink...

Adorable.

Hm...
*tries to think of silly utility jutsus MIO does not have something to do the job of*

 

[Drak4806]

[X]-Make sure that Saki knows that if she doesn't at least try to help you out here... you're just gonna come back and force her again and again until she does it; better for everyone if she plays along from the outset, right? ...Heh, you're sosmart.
-[X]-Okay, well you've met Gai before and you know how to get him going... time to give him a challenge! "Hey Gai, you mighty mighty guy - I bet you can't pose even harder and more theatrically than last time!"
--[X]-If that doesn't get you what you need, remind him you were totally interested in his jumpsuit stuff and that you're still waiting on some awesome gold one... and attempt to use that reminder conversation to prompt him to do more of his genjutsu-assisted posing.
---[X]-Obviously while he does this you'll pose right back at him, only better, because you're the Great Devil Queen Mio!
----[X]-Once you've got what you want/THE GREAT MIO is pooped from Gai-time, have a pow-wow with Saki and see how she did!

 

[Snake/Eater]

How many Gais does it take to screw in a light bulb..... Just one Gai, but he uses his feet to do it.

 

[Adyen]

[X] Jump closer to Gai while yanking Saki with you and say, "Mighty Gai! I admit that I do not yet have the ability to see through your Sunset, but with the help of the White Ninja, we shall see through your secret!"
-[X] Smack Saki's back and say, "White Ninja! It is your turn to see through his tricks!"

 

[Hyp3rB14d3]

[X] Jump closer to Gai while yanking Saki with you and say, "Mighty Gai! I admit that I do not yet have the ability to see through your Sunset, but with the help of the White Ninja, we shall see through your secret!"
-[X] Smack Saki's back and say, "White Ninja! It is your turn to see through his tricks!"

 

[Bobs Beard]

I seriously question if Saki's actually going to do the thing Mio wants her to do, if it's not made clear to her in Mio's sorta-precocious, sorta-ominous way that it only gets worse if she doesn't play along.

She certainly hasn't in any way demonstrated interest or willingness to comply so far.

 

[Nekraa]

MIO will continue until morale improves!

it didn't improve...

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

MIO will continue until morale improves!

it didn't improve...

Click to shrink...

How could it not improve?
Mio's adorable and fabulous!

 

[Sirrocco]

MIO will continue until morale improves!

Click to shrink...

Does it have to stop?

 

[The Nobody]

I seriously question if Saki's actually going to do the thing Mio wants her to do, if it's not made clear to her in Mio's sorta-precocious, sorta-ominous way that it only gets worse if she doesn't play along.

She certainly hasn't in any way demonstrated interest or willingness to comply so far.

Click to shrink...

Well, if she doesn't do as asked, there's only one thing to do (okay, maybe more) - ask her again!

[X] Jump closer to Gai while yanking Saki with you and say, "Mighty Gai! I admit that I do not yet have the ability to see through your Sunset, but with the help of the White Ninja, we shall see through your secret!"
-[X] Smack Saki's back and say, "White Ninja! It is your turn to see through his tricks!"

 

[fitzgerald]

[X] Jump closer to Gai while yanking Saki with you and say, "Mighty Gai! I admit that I do not yet have the ability to see through your Sunset, but with the help of the White Ninja, we shall see through your secret!"
-[X] Smack Saki's back and say, "White Ninja! It is your turn to see through his tricks!"

 

[Bobs Beard]

Well, if she doesn't do as asked, there's only one thing to do (okay, maybe more) - ask her again!

Click to shrink...

I mean sure, but... why potentially blow an update on Saki going 'NUH UH LIKE I KEEP SAYING I DON' WANNA' because she doesn't have the fear of Mio('s pestering) in her, when instead we can make sure she knows that a priori?

I'm not saying I expect my plan to just work, the end - but on the flip side I don't see a reason to give Chibi more ways to curveball our expectations; they're quite good enough at it without our 'help'.

 

[The Nobody]

Because she's adorable and this way the audience that enjoys those things can see her being adorable again?

Because Chibi can throw us a curveball and reveal the hidden depth behind this adorability?

Because Chibi isn't some sort of a robot and wouldn't repeat the same update (Saki refusing) again and again, in the same style each time, because he would get bored of that even sooner than us?

Because the other update has MIO sound as a dick and a buffoon, while the short one only portrays her as pushy and rude?

 

[Felius]

How many Gais does it take to screw in a light bulb..... Just one Gai, but he uses his feet to do it.

Click to shrink...

And if he can't do that he'll flex until he can light up the room with his sheer muscles!

 

[prandom]

[X] Jump closer to Gai while yanking Saki with you and say, "Mighty Gai! I admit that I do not yet have the ability to see through your Sunset, but with the help of the White Ninja, we shall see through your secret!"
-[X] Smack Saki's back and say, "White Ninja! It is your turn to see through his tricks!"

 

[SolipsistSerpent]

BEHOLD:

I found a kid fem-Madara - that is, I found a MIO.

Sadly, the base drawing was already pixelated so I couldn't easily make more colorful renditions, but still.

Click to shrink...

Actually, vis a vis Mio's appearance... Is her hair still dyed gold? She clearly loves the color, what with her plans to acquire nail polish and jumpsuits in it.
I suppose the Elders might have been a little too upset at her keeping it.

 

[SCO]

You already know that this probably isn't going to work since Neij never was able to figure it out right (either in canon or any fanfic i've read and i've read a lot)? Not that he was probably trying of course. More like cursing that he couldn't turn off his eyes on time probably.


My suggestion is that if it's internal chakra manipulation and it's at a level that it doesn't require godlike skills like the gates or nature chakra (but it probably is), it's probably the same as the seal-less jutsus that require perfect memory and perfect control of chakra flows to do without hand-seals...
Another reason Sakura is a big waste in canon. She probably could have perfected seal-less jutsu (the ones she could use) out of the academy with her perfect memory and control (or with the help of her 'passenger') if Kakashi was not a unimaginative selfish and lazy hypocrite and actually took the time to teach or mentor everyone on the team individually on time instead of going on his grieving coping mechanism every morning or at least give them to a functional sensei.


Actually, shooting the breeze now and theory crafting about the interaction of the tenketsu and the hand-seals, it seems to me that hand-seals ... probably ... cause a lot chakra and casting time being wasted since there are like, more than 300 tenketsu i think, and nowhere near as many hand-seals. If the combinatorics work in a sane way, hand-seals have to be massively redundant and the larger sequences later seals are probably to fix-up stuff in earlier seals.

 

[Bobs Beard]

You already know that this probably isn't going to work since Neij never was able to figure it out right (either in canon or any fanfic i've read and i've read a lot)? Not that he was probably trying of course.

Click to shrink...

One of these things, invalidates the other~

No but for real, even putting aside the incredibly reaching assumption that Neji not having learned the tech is proof of any sort about the technique's learnability, there's still the absolutely showstopping question of 'would Neji even want to try and learn this'? Would Neji, mister stick-up-his-butt-and-even-after-that-formality/professionalism-obsessed Neji, care about an eccentric goofballs noncombat technique that itself is extra eccentric? Because I'd say there's a far stronger case that personal preferences here would be far more important than any possible inferences about Gai's technique.

My suggestion is that if it's internal chakra manipulation and it's at a level that it doesn't require godlike skills like the gates or nature chakra (but it probably is), it's probably the same as the seal-less jutsus that require perfect memory and perfect control of chakra flows to do without hand-seals...
Another reason Sakura is a big waste in canon. She probably could have perfected seal-less jutsu (the ones she could use) out of the academy with her perfect memory and control (or with the help of her 'passenger') if Kakashi was not a unimaginative selfish and lazy hypocrite and actually took the time to teach or mentor everyone on the team individually on time instead of going on his grieving coping mechanism every morning before or at least give them to a functional sensei.

Click to shrink...

Oookay, question for ya - or rather, two interwoven ones.

• How long ago did you actually read Naruto?
• How much more recently have you read fanfics, themselves the definitive source on fanon?

I ask because this is really coming off as something that someone that's let fanon overtake canon in their recollections would say - and that's not a particularly useful state to be in, when trying to reason out how to do stuff in a quest we have no indication would follow fanon.

 

[SCO]

I have a new paragraph of pure speculation for you to get annoyed about fandom now. I edited it in (it seems logical to me, as logic applies to anime worlds of magic of course).

If it isn't stated on canon how ninja drop handseals, i'm going with the fanon explanation that makes sense of course. And that explanation is one that meshes well with Sakura talents (if Kishimoto wasn't determined to sideline her and make the fans hate the girl of course). I guess another explanation could be if the repeated jutsu training works on a physiological fashion that permanently alters chakra pathways (like say, memory metal) but i never saw that one. I saw very many with internal chakra manipulation and iirc internal manipulation is pretty much how they train treewalking or awaken it on the academy, only without manipulating the tenketsu intentionally, which is probably rather advanced (the medics and hyuuga do it though).

 

[Bobs Beard]

I have a new paragraph of pure speculation for you to get annoyed about fandom now. I edited it in (it seems logical to me, as logic applies to anime worlds of magic of course).

Click to shrink...

I saw it, I just don't have a different response to it than my other prompt - which you haven't addressed yet, I'll note; you know, that selfcheck of 'wait, how long ago did I actually absorb canon material, and not just fanon derivative material?'

Anyway there is now one line is something I have to call out.

If it isn't stated in canon how ninja (do a thing), i'm going with the fanon explanation that makes sense of course.

Click to shrink...

This right here.

This approach is fine and dandy and works just fine for:

• Spitballing how to make your own quest.
• Discussing how to fill in canon gaps with a QM who is amenable to such spitballing from you.
• Making discussion in Naruto recs and discussion threads.

This approach is not remotely helpful when:

• You attempt to apply it to a QM's canon-derivative quest, and you don't yet have any in-quest indication your assumptions truck.
• You're trying to reason out what to do/how things work in a quest you didn't get to worldbuild any for.

This is why 'stick to canon' is such an oft-repeated suggestion; while canon-plus-your-assumptions certainly can look superior and appealing as a reasoning base, only canon can be relied upon to be accurate, when you're musing about this or that quest.

So again, to both avoid you misleading yourself into expecting things in-quest that there's no actual reason to expect, and to avoid you unwittingly convincing some other poster you're talking about actual canon and not just your interpretations of canon, I advise you to dial it back, and be more clear about what's canon, and what's fanon.

 

[SCO]

Uhhhhh. In canon no one knows or admits that knows how Gai does his thing.

Is speculation about how it compares to dropping handseals (another obscurity that is glossed over with 'it's just training') and a off the side remark how it's very very likely that Sakura could have done sealless jutsus much sooner than most...

really really worth being mad about fandom? When the ability has to built up by the QM from the ground up? Touchy touchy.


Ok for anyone that didn't get it: Kishimoto never bothered to explain how Gai ability works or many other details of how hand-seal less jutsu casting works in relation to the body of the caster (when it's not a written seal, in which case he never bothered iirc). Almost everything in my posts above is - i think logical - speculation of a relation or non-relation between the two and why i think it's impractical to expect the byakugan to help (because Neij, probably Kakashi, and Mio having failed to reproduce it with their dojutsus... even if only Mio wants it). Disclaimer done and over.

I guess we'll know soon enough. I'm not chuffed about the vote and trying with the byakugan.

Yet another speculation: it's possible that Mio's sharingan is not at a advanced enough stage to copy sufficiently subtle seal-less jutsus.

 

[Bobs Beard]

Uhhhhh. In canon no one knows or admits that knows how Gai does his thing.

Click to shrink...

Yes, and?

My point is about avoiding making unnecessary assumptions and attempting to apply them in places they may not be relevant - this point would seem a point in favor of that.

Is speculation about how it compares to dropping handseals (another obscurity that is glossed over with 'it's just training') and a off the side remark how it's very very likely that Sakura could have done sealless jutsus much sooner than most...

really really worth being mad about fandom? When the ability has to built up by the QM from the ground up? Touchy touchy.

Click to shrink...

Can you point to where you got even the slightest idea I was mad, or being touchy from?

From the outset, this has been 'hey, let's not let our personal opinions mar our ability to discuss the few things we know are true, as it's easy to lose that and rarely a good thing to lose that'. This is akin to a debate moderator clearing their throat, stepping in and reminding peeps of a point... not someone getting upset.

You do understand that people taking more than a line to articulate their point/disagreeing with you does not automatically make them mad or touchy, right?

And even if you don't, I'd like to think you can recognize that going down the 'u mad/touchy' path in discussion lacks the capacity to be productive, right?

 

[SCO]

I'm pretty tired of having a debate about this. I'll just say that i find it plain weird - in general, in any work - not to use at least some setting fandom (ie: logical speculation and extrapolations from canon when not applied to personalities - which to be honest attract the more bizarre stuff) to discuss intentions of voting when the canon is purposefully obscure.

I'm not even sorry.

What we do know for certain in this instance is that the 3 tomoe sharingan that MIO has was useless for detecting the ability and the clue was about internal manipulation of chakra. Either the QM is using a interpretation of MIO's sharingan where it can only 'memorize' the handseals (which would be plain weird, since the internal manipulation is fundamental to reproduce the jutsus), or it's too subtle for MIO to notice (tenketsu), or i don't even know what (?gates, fuijinjutsu?). Trying the byugakan won't hurt, but i don't expect much more than the poor girl seeing hundreds of tenketsu points opening and closing without the benefit of perfect memory (if that is the mechanism and not something more exotic).


The ability to copy 'internalized' seal-less jutsus if it's the same mechanism (that is fanon speculated as manipulating tenketsu without handseals) would be a nice find though. If this works, MIO might very well conclude that if the sharingan had the ability to see tenketsu along with the chakra flows and perfect memory, it would make her copy-ninja abilities godly. Which won't happen for balance reasons ofc, but it's nice to dream and this is the reason i even bothered trying to mention it above.

 

[t15]

[X] Jump closer to Gai while yanking Saki with you and say, "Mighty Gai! I admit that I do not yet have the ability to see through your Sunset, but with the help of the White Ninja, we shall see through your secret!"
-[X] Smack Saki's back and say, "White Ninja! It is your turn to see through his tricks!"

 

[CrossyCross]

I'm pretty tired of having a debate about this.

Click to shrink...

Because you're kinda losing?

 

[SCO]

Not from where i'm standing. It's incredibly illogical to disregard all fandom when the fandom is a attempt to fill holes in the setting through pure deduction, which is pretty much the kind of stuff people do and need to... you know... make choices.

Now i know you're kinda of a troll looking for a reaction, but whatever, this is really the last post about it.

If any of you want to be mad at a even more 'heretical' belief i hold related to this, read this subthread.

 

[shaderic]

Not from where i'm standing. It's incredibly illogical to disregard all fandom when the fandom is a attempt to fill holes in the setting through pure deduction, which is pretty much the kind of stuff people do and need to... you know... make choices.

Now i know you're kinda of a troll looking for a reaction, but whatever, this is really the last post about it.

If any of you want to be mad at a even more 'heretical' belief i hold related to this, read this subthread.

Click to shrink...

You ever been in a Chibi-thread, SC0?

Chibi's a guy who's more or less built himself around fucking with expectations, and creatively interpreting situations in completely logical ways.

Which is to say, fanon and canon both don't matter here. You've gotten on the wild and wooly Reaper-train, and shit's gonna get weird. Best not to have too many pre-conceptions.

 

[SoothingCoffee]

Not from where i'm standing. It's incredibly illogical to disregard all fandom when the fandom is a attempt to fill holes in the setting through pure deduction, which is pretty much the kind of stuff people do and need to... you know... make choices.

Now i know you're kinda of a troll looking for a reaction, but whatever, this is really the last post about it.

If any of you want to be mad at a even more 'heretical' belief i hold related to this, read this subthread.

Click to shrink...

Here's the thing though... making speculation is all fine and dandy as long as it's from Canon or from WoG. When you try to make your own speculation from your headcanon or the fandom and then trying tk apply it into another's quest without any hint of it being right, then don't.

That's not even counting who the QM is.

 

[CrossyCross]

Not from where i'm standing. It's incredibly illogical to disregard all fandom when the fandom is a attempt to fill holes in the setting through pure deduction, which is pretty much the kind of stuff people do and need to... you know... make choices.

Now i know you're kinda of a troll looking for a reaction, but whatever, this is really the last post about it.

If any of you want to be mad at a even more 'heretical' belief i hold related to this, read this subthread.

Click to shrink...

Nah, I'm just legitimately annoyed at you keeping on with your personal beliefs in a thread where you didn't participate in the worldbuilding.

Chibi does as Chibi does. Unless it's ironclad canon with which the entire setting relies upon to exist (and not the stupid kind that people prefer to ignore), and even then, don't expect it to be here unless otherwise confirmed by Chibi.

You're losing the fucking argument. Just deal with it and stop mucking up the thread with your whatever.

Go post about stuff that isn't your headcanons.

 

[SCO]

The original part of the post that created this digression was (i think) a aside about Sakura, which is completely irrelevant so far in the quest, so there is not even a reason for me or you to be mad. Let's just agree to disagree on our definitions of what is important when thinking about decisions. Gezz, the trouble i get into trying to explain my thinking.