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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

This should be oranged.
The SI has been using the ring for long enough that he doesn't have to intentionally exert avarice to trigger ring functions anymore. For the last... year or so? When the text is orange it's because he's putting special effort into it or because it's necessary to communicate to the reader that he's using a ring function when it wouldn't otherwise be obvious.
 
The fact the green lanterns didn't do shit smells terrible for commander Scott because we know one of the ways to bypass Green lantern law enforcement is to show them you were invited to the planet by the local authorities, so putting all the evidence together results in the JSI inviting the dominators to take a bunch of their prisoners off their hands and causing enough damage to allow the JSI to consolidate power and take over the planet.

That's not general policy, that's the terms of the specific treaty the GLC has with the Reach.

I've never seen a version of the Dominators powerful enough that the GLC would feel a need to make such a treaty.

And since Zoat had them use Khundian mercenaries in this invasion (not mentioned in Trinity, but certainly possible) they don't seem like an exception here.

I suspect the lack of GLC interference has more to do with Earth not wanting GLC help. For example if the Dominators attacked the Cooperative from which Icon is from, the GLC wouldn't interfere, because the Cooperative asked the GLC to respect their sovereignty.

The universe is a big place, if a civilization tells the GLC "We will take care of ourselves, you focus on the planets that need your help" the GLC will likely respect that declaration.

So I imagine when the invasion happened Sur was helping people who actually wanted his help.
 
Gotta love Constantine here. And the fact that Paul is getting a taste of what he sounds like.

Now I'm really wondering what E16 Green Arrow is doing.
I'm leaning towards the 'JSI caused the situation and are the baddies' but will listen to the motive rant. But yeah, the fact they went to how to use Todd instead of help was a major warning sign.
 
I get it, in a utilitarian kind of way. Handing over Earth incorrigibles to the Dominators. It was probably one of the things that made them leave, getting test subjects. Plus it gave Earth a rallying base 'Remember the Lost', and all that. The JSI seem to have made a more orderly world in the meantime. But then again, so did the Justice Lords.

Problem is, the Dominators wouldn't leave forever.

Is the sacrifice humans lives to a dragon thing.
 
Problem is, the Dominators wouldn't leave forever.

Is the sacrifice humans lives to a dragon thing.


They would if the JSI high command are the equivalent of the Light and the dominators consider them pseudo allies of a sort.

I mean who rules earth? Who evaded justice for their egregious human right violations? The timing of the dominators raid is extremely suspicious and the fact they left without sending the planet back to the pre industrial age is even more egregious and suspicious. If the Dominators left them for future research specimens, the meta gene doesn't need a post industrial space age society to exist, in fact sending earth back a few centuries is what the evil dominators should have done.

The JSI did win a lot from this exchange almost as if this is an example of the Light plans being successful.
 
. If the Dominators left them for future research specimens, the meta gene doesn't need a post industrial space age society to exist, in fact sending earth back a few centuries is what the evil dominators should have done.

Reducing the human population means killing people with the metagene, reducing the numbers of children with the metagene in the succeeding generations, which reduces the chances of one of those hypothetical metahumans manifesting in a new and interesting way.

Culling humanity would have been counterproductive to their goals, which is to study the metagene and all its infinite possibilities.
 
Reducing the human population means killing people with the metagene, reducing the numbers of children with the metagene in the succeeding generations, which reduces the chances of one of those hypothetical metahumans manifesting in a new and interesting way.

Culling humanity would have been counterproductive to their goals, which is to study the metagene and all its infinite possibilities.
Now culling humans without the metagene, well.
 
Feasibility Study (part 22)
21st November 2012
15:06 GMT -5


"Oh, don't look at me like that. You were just trying to convince me to use a man as a power suppression device." His eyes flick to me for a moment before returning to Interceptor. "Todd Rice is my natural son, by the way, though I've got no idea how Orange Lantern found out about that."

"Your-?"

"Apparently, Rose kept it together long enough to give birth and hand them over to an orphanage. The tabloid stories about Jade being my daughter are true, though I was married to her mother at the time."

"I'm-. Sorry-."

"What for? You had a sound proposal. On balance, I think that Orange Lantern is in the right, because we want mentally ill people with superpowers to seek treatment rather than worry we're going to unperson them, but your argument had merit."

John leans back in his chair, slowly blowing air out of his pursed lips.

"At least you're consistent."

"It helps. We were going to release that information in a few years anyway. Honestly, I never thought that we were going to get anyone back."

"Why..? Were you going to tell people, then?"

"I -and the other members of the JSI executive board- think that honesty is the best policy. Whatever we did, it would come out eventually. With this… Last case put to bed, the plan is for us to retire and pass the whole organisation over to the next generation. A few years for them to get the hang of it, then we could make a public confession without harming the organization too much."

Interceptor blinks. "You were-? All-?"

"Handing a group of people -even supervillains- over to alien invaders isn't something any one of us would do without the agreement of the others. I hated it, and I hated them-."

"That's why you weren't annoyed that Interceptor killed the one I captured. She would have known-."

"Oh please." He shakes his head. "If she knew, it probably wouldn't have occurred to her to tell anyone, and she wouldn't have had any contact with anyone who would believe her word over mine. I wanted her dead because I know she'd have done exactly the same thing as the others given the chance, and probably has done it to other worlds."

"Why?" Interceptor looks lost as she shakes her head. "Was the situation really bad enough-?"

"Yes. They had orbital supremacy. We lost good people trying to lift nukes to their ships, which was the only way we had to even try to attack them. The only reason they didn't wipe us out was because they wanted us as test subjects more than they wanted to conquer Earth. So we offered them every murderous criminal we had if they would leave. And they did. And we finally got the governmental support we needed to get strong enough to stop the next invasion. It was worth it."

John honestly seems a little amused. "And how was your crime rate after all that?"

"Much lower. Fewer thefts, fewer murders. Fewer lives being destroyed. People finally understood that supervillainy wasn't just a bit of fun. Some very unpleasant people died in Dominion prisons and I can't say I'm all that sad about it."

"I assume that's a discussion you've had with Missus Scott."

"Molly paid her debt to society before I married her. She knew how I felt about the way she was living when she was Harlequin."

Interceptor blinks, clearly stunned by what she's hearing.

"I… Don't know-."

"I know this is a shock, Interceptor, but I'm sure once you reason it through you'll see we're right. It's best for everyone this way."

John raises his left eyebrow. "Except the ones who died in the Dominion."

"I'm not going to waste my time on the total monsters, and most of the rest had family who are still alive today because they're not. When you're in a job like this, you can't-."

"If you're in charge, and you know something is necessary to do something good, and you refuse to do it, that's just… Just squeamishness."

"No, it's… Normal morals that don't fit the situation. Normal morals are there to guide you through individual interactions. They don't work when you try applying them to a population of billions. I'd worry about someone who could make this sort of decision and not be troubled at all, but at the end of the day, if you can't say 'exitus ācta probat' then you're in the wrong job."

I hate this conversation. And from the looks John's giving me, I've got a sneaky suspicion that I know what this whole thing was in aid of.

I mean… I agree, though I'm really uncomfortable hearing it from an Alan's mouth. But no one spoke against it? I make a point of surrounding myself with people who disagree with me for a reason. I want them to find a better way to do things. I give them opportunities to do that. Because I generally wouldn't mind being wrong.

It's not my fault if they don't have any better ideas. Or they just stick their fingers in their ears and hum loudly and hope it will go away.

I just-.

I-.

"So-. So what now?"

"Interceptor, good work. Take a week off to think things over. After that, we're going to make you the face of the successful counterattack."

"You're.. going to promote me?"

He nods. "Of course. Between your success rate and practicality, you're an obvious choice. As for our parallel universe friends… Well, that's up to the two of you. I'm gone in a few years anyway. You can release what you know, which might damage the JSI or might -let's not kid ourselves here- be met with casual indifference. Or you can keep it to yourselves. I don't know exactly how powerful a wizard you are, Mister Constantine, but I know very well the kind of collateral damage that happens when people in my weight class fight and I don't think this is worth fighting you over."

And John looks at me again.

What?

Is this-? Is he thinking about when the Justice League refused to arrest me over killing Nabu and making the whole thing public?

That wasn't-.

I don't disagree with-.

I can't.. make a decision that will affect an entire world without knowing far more about it than I.. do. You've got the fucking Blackrock, you decide!



"I see no particular advantage in releasing the information early, though, John, if you want to, go right ahead. Where are we on getting home?"

"Oh, I think Sivana will spot something went wrong in a little while. Shouldn't have a problem next time." He stands, sliding the Blackrock into his coat pocket as he does so. "Green Arrow and Black Canary have been keeping themselves busy too. Think I'll have a bit of a wander before we leave."

A red crack appears in the air behind him, and he turns and ambles through, closing it behind him.

Commander Scott turns to me.

"What do you think he'll do?"

"My guess is nothing. I suspect this is about self-awareness or something." I raise my right hand to my forehead. "Interceptor, good luck with the new job. Commander Scott, good luck with the trial. I.. feel a sudden need to engage in uncomplicated good works. Goodbye."
 
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"Oh, I think Sivana will spot something went wrong in a little while. Shouldn't have a problem next time."
Is this supposed to be implying Constantine is the reason why they went to the wrong parallel? He didn't need to be back long to start causing mischief again.
 
You know, we forget that Paragon has killed more sentient beings than any other Fictional Hero i can think off. And he's really great at expediency but not so great at restraint.
This is honestly a good thing for John to do for him and keep in mind it's his Sinchronicity magic that got them there most likely.
 
I can't express how much I disliked this. OL being a psychopathic nutcase carries this story, and any change to that will just diminish it.
At the same time, I think he can be a psycho nutcase while being less socially dense. For an enlightened empath, OL has no actual empathy.
 
You know, we forget that Paragon has killed more sentient beings than any other Fictional Hero i can think off. And he's really great at expediency but not so great at restraint.
This is honestly a good thing for John to do for him and keep in mind it's his Sinchronicity magic that got them there most likely.

He actually shows a lot of restraint most of the time given that he is an Enlightened Orange Lantern that could summon the Orange Light Entity any time he wants in his home universe.
 
Yikes. No wonder John and Paul get along so well. They are eerily similar fucked up in some ways...or maybe just see the fucked upness in their world more clearly than others.

And...Paul pulled John out of the fire and John immediately returned the favour by showing Paul a warning of what could happen if he isn't very careful.

Weirdly wholesome?
 
21st November 2012
15:06 GMT -5


"Oh, don't look at me like that. You were just trying to convince me to use a man as a power suppression device." His eyes flick to me for a moment before returning to Interceptor. "Todd Rice is my natural son, by the way, though I've got no idea how Orange Lantern found out about that."

"Your-?"
I'm sure OL could claim 'interdimensional travel experiences' and leave it at that. And yeah, Interceptor... She probably thinks she's hard, but she just got a proper look at the real nature of 'Hard men making hard decisions...'

"Apparently, Rose kept it together long enough to give birth and hand them over to an orphanage. The tabloid stories about Jade being my daughter are true, though I was married to her mother at the time."

"I'm-. Sorry-."
Just not the woman who raised her. The writers of Infinity Inc back in the day had to do something to produce kids of the JSA from somewhere.

"What for? You had a sound proposal. On balance, I think that Orange Lantern is in the right, because we want mentally ill people with superpowers to seek treatment rather than worry we're going to unperson them, but your argument had merit."

John leans back in his chair, slowly blowing air out of his pursed lips.
Well, that's surprising. Here we were, all going all conspiracy nut on Commander Scott, and...

"At least you're consistent."

"It helps. We were going to release that information in a few years anyway. Honestly, I never thought that we were going to get anyone back."
...It turns out he's not as big a monster as we thought. And clearly has regrets over his decision.

"Why..? Were you going to tell people, then?"

"I -and the other members of the JSI executive board- think that honesty is the best policy. Whatever we did, it would come out eventually. With this… Last case put to bed, the plan is for us to retire and pass the whole organisation over to the next generation. A few years for them to get the hang of it, then we could make a public confession without harming the organization too much."
Well, that's clever of you. Let's hope the people play along with that plan.

Interceptor blinks. "You were-? All-?"

"Handing a group of people -even supervillains- over to alien invaders isn't something any one of us would do without the agreement of the others. I hated it, and I hated them-."
So, this is probably weighing as heavily on the other 'executive board' members as it is on you, then? But they weren't the public face of JSI leadership...

"That's why you weren't annoyed that Interceptor killed the one I captured. She would have known-."

"Oh please." He shakes is head. "If she knew, it probably wouldn't have occurred to her to tell anyone, and she wouldn't have had any contact with anyone who would believe her word over mine. I wanted her dead because I know she'd have done exactly the same thing as the other given the chance, and probably has done it to other worlds."
Probably true. The Dominators are not nice people as a culture, even if a single one might be.. an okay person.

"Why?" Interceptor looks lost as she shakes her head. "Was the situation really bad enough-?"

"Yes. They had orbital supremacy. We lost good people trying to lift nukes to their ships, which was the only way we had to even try to attack them. The only reason they didn't wipe us out was because they wanted us as test subjects more than they wanted to conquer Earth. So we offered them every murderous criminal we had if they would leave. And they did. And we finally got the governmental support we needed to get strong enough to stop the next invasion. It was worth it."
Even if it meant lowering yourself to an immoral act to do so. But you're remorseful about it, at least.

John honestly seems a little amused. "And how was your crime rate after all that?"

"Much lower. Fewer thefts, fewer murders. Fewer lives being destroyed. People finally understood that supervillainy wasn't just a bit of fun. Some very unpleasant people died in Dominion prisons and I can't say I'm all that sad about it."
And Superheroes have turned into government servants, as much as any soldier, no matter how fancy their costumes. Such is life?

"I assume that's a discussion you've had with Missus Scott."

"Molly paid her debt to society before I married her. She knew how I felt about the way she was living when she was Harlequin."
Admittedly, she probably wasn't much of a supervillain. Especially against fricking Green Lantern.

Interceptor blinks, clearly stunned by what she's hearing.

"I… Don't know-."
Yeah, that's about normal for realising your heroes have feet of clay, just like anyone else.

"I know this is a shock, Interceptor, but I'm sure once you reason it through you'll see we're right. It's best for everyone this way."

John raises his left eyebrow. "Except the ones who died in the Dominion."
And not all of them were convicted super-criminals.

"I'm not going to waste my time on the total monsters, and most of the rest had family who are still alive today because they're not. When you're in a job like this, you can't-."

"If you're in charge, and you know something is necessary to do something good, and you refuse to do it, that's just… Just squeamishness."
I see OL understands the necessity of it, even if he isn't necessarily in agreement with the methods.

"No, it's… Normal morals that don't fit the situation. Normal morals are there to guide you through individual interactions. They don't work when you try applying them to a population of billions. I'd worry about someone who could make this sort of decision and not be troubles at all, but at the end of the day, if you can't say 'exitus ācta probat' then you're in the wrong job."

I hate this conversation. And from the looks John's giving me, I've got a sneaky suspicion that I know what this whole thing was in aid of.
"One person dying is a tragedy, one million dying is a statistic." Empathy has limits, and so do nearly any other aspects of the human psyche.

I mean… I agree, though I'm really uncomfortable hearing it from an Alan's mouth. But no one spoke against it? I make a point of surrounding myself with people who disagree with me for a reason. I want them to find a better way to do things. I give them opportunities to do that. Because I generally wouldn't mind being wrong.

It's not my fault if they don't have any better ideas. Or they just stick their fingers in their ears and hum loudly and hope it will go away.
Gee, not bitter or anything, OL? :p

Having second thoughts about some of your methods, OL? Or just frustrated at the conflicts?

"So-. So what now?"

"Interceptor, good work. Take a week off to think things over. After that, we're going to make you the face of the successful counterattack."
Yeah, she's probably going to have to rethink her career.

"You're.. going to promote me?"

He nods. "Of course. Between your success rate and practicality, you're an obvious choice. As for our parallel universe friends… Well, that's up to the two of you. I'm gone in a few years anyway. You can release what you know, which might damage the JSI or might -let's not kid ourselves here- be met with casual indifference. Or you can keep it to yourselves. I don't know exactly how powerful a wizard you are, Mister Constantine, but I know very well the kind of collateral damage that happens when people in my weight class fight and I don't think this is worth fighting you over."
Especially if John is willing to tap some of that Orderly or Chaotic power of his. And I notice he threw the choice onto the outsiders.

And John looks at me again.

What?
Well, you are nominally in charge of this 'mission'.

Is this-? Is he thinking about when the Justice League refused to arrest me over killing Nabu and making the whole thing public?

That wasn't-.
I mean, that whole situation was kind of a 'no good solution' scenario for all involved.

I don't disagree with-.

I can't.. make a decision that will affect an entire world without knowing far more about it than I.. do. You've got the fucking Blackrock, you decide!
Well, sometimes you do have to do things without knowing all the information, OL.



"I see no particular advantage in releasing the information early, though, John, if you want to, go right ahead. Where are we on getting home?"
And I can see John going 'eh, fuck that, this ain't my problem.'

"Oh, I think Sivana will spot something went wrong in a little while. Shouldn't have a problem next time." He stands, sliding the Blackrock into his coat pocket as he does so. "Green Arrow and Black Canary have been keeping themselves busy too. Think I'll have a bit of a wander before we leave."

A red crack appears in the air behind him, and he turns and ambles through, closing it behind him.
...You are going to surrender that to the local authorities, right, John?

Commander Scott turns to me.

"What do you think he'll do?"

"My guess is nothing. I suspect this is about self-awareness or something." I raise my right hand to my forehead. "Interceptor, good luck with the new job. Commander Scott, good luck with the trial. I.. feel a sudden need to engage in uncomplicated good works. Goodbye."
Ah, heading off for a bit of a palate cleanser, eh, OL? Gonna go clean the local ocean gyres?

Well, that was... About the best result of some dirty dealing behind the scenes, we could expect, I guess. Amazing how dark a world without a Trinity can get. And OL has some deep thinking to do about his own actions, by the looks of it. I know, 'want the ends, want the means' but some things... They leave a stain that doesn't fade easily. And John there just shone a light on it...


"Oh please." He shakes is head.
"Oh please." He shakes his head.
...she'd have done exactly the same thing as the other given the chance...
...she'd have done exactly the same thing as the others given the chance...
 
We can only hope Commander Scott actually retires. Assuming his ring is damaged like Blue Lantern was, he's ageless while having access to the Green Light. One can only hope that he stays out of it to let the organization actually grow and continue beyond him.
 
Well, I'll be... good fucking work, John. Good work.

I didn't know where this was going until halfway through and when I got it, I think I had the same epiphany as the Illustres. Sometimes, I suppose, not because you're right means that you're in the right.

John and Paul definitely deserve each other as friends. I think they can keep each other's bullshit in check.
 
Hah! This is pretty close to Paul's perfect earth, and woops.

As an aside, finally figured out the continuity for the Transformers story. I'm pretty much OOTL on modern stuff, but I wikicrawl.
Anyhoo, for a while I wondered if this was the Animated continuity, and that... Would have been awkward.
 
One thing that Paul has that Commander Scott doesn't is people who can point out when what he's saying is too far and is able to think of a better solution. Because having the former without the latter is just complaining, not helping.
I disagree. If someone has thought of a variety of approaches and picked one based on a narrow set of priorities due to having blind spots or tunnel vision, having people around them who will pull them out of that mindset and point out factors they didn't notice or consider may be all that is required for a better approach.
 
I am massively confused by Paul's reaction here. I thought he's Orange Enlightened, no? How is he so confused and experiencing cognitive dissonance over this? Shouldn't he clearly know what he wants and then deal with it? In this case, a world where goody two-shoes have input, because it makes him feel safer on his own path, and where he doesn't have to see someone with Grandpa Scott's face be the voice of cold hard logic, because he's sentimental like that?

I mean none of this is news to Paul. Or at least it shouldn't be. And given what I know about his powers, such stuff shouldn't stump him even of it were. If this arc causes him to second-guess himself and and dither around for the next ten arcs then I'll be very disappointed.

Edit: On a different note, where was Alan 16 during this conversation?
 
I am massively confused by Paul's reaction here. I thought he's Orange Enlightened, no? How is he so confused and experiencing cognitive dissonance over this? Shouldn't he clearly know what he wants and then deal with it? In this case, a world where goody two-shoes have input, because it makes him feel safer on his own path, and where he doesn't have to see someone with Grandpa Scott's face be the voice of cold hard logic, because he's sentimental like that?

I mean none of this is news to Paul. Or at least it shouldn't be. And given what I know about his powers, such stuff shouldn't stump him even of it were.
He knows what he wants. He doesn't necessarily know how to get it. The issue here is that he's now uncertain if his approach will actually get him what he wants.
If this arc causes him to second-guess himself and and dither around for the next ten arcs then I'll be very disappointed.
No, it's about something completely different.
Edit: On a different note, where was Alan 16 during this conversation?
Helping the survivors.
 

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