With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Darko · Oct 9, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
but thanks to Angela all the full kryptonians

If he's talking about the Nazi world Supergirl then I think she was called Angelika.

Prince Charon · Oct 9, 2023

Bud-E said:
Wait this universe Superman never figured out freeze breath why? Does he not experiment with his powers?

IIRC (but note that it's been years since I really watched the cartoon, so my memory may be way off) the YJ-verse versions of the characters often seem to be oddly lacking in intelligence and creativity, except when they need to jump to conclusions to try to convince the audience that they're doing deductive or inductive reasoning.

Chojin Patriarch · Oct 9, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
17th February 2013
18:08 GMT

"There's no off-switch!"

"And it's surprisingly flame-. Ah! Flame resistant!"

Ah, Robin and Match again. Only fair, they were in the middle of a fight when we left them... And seriously, Mitchell still hasn't thought of a better hero name than 'Match'?

The woman laying on the floor under the control console was a pretty good programmer. She's only been down about thirty seconds before the robot soldiers went autonomous. And it was only ten seconds after that that the two on guard duty outside-

I jump back and twist to throw an EMP batarang as a laser beam flashes through the air! I hit-. I miss the laser gun and hit the heavily insulated armour, the electrical discharge doing nothing at all to the robot.

-charged inside.

On the upside, they won't be quite as smart about the fighting as they would have been under her command. Unless she really was that good a coder.

"Try freezing it!"

Match has got, like, three arms wrapped around him. They were bouncing him off the floor, but they gave up when it didn't work and how they're just trying to choke him out. Doesn't look like it's all that strong but it's super-flexible and kryptonian physical strength is way greater than their flying strength.

In other words, he's not pulling it anywhere, and all wrapped up like that, he's got no leverage otherwise...

I back flip towards the creepy green incinerator as the other guard robot aims its laser at where I was, slashing through the air and melting the stone on the far side. I'm actually kinda impressed.

Smoke bomb. Actually-

Bit slow-moving, I see. Guess their target tracking isn't up to near-superspeed.

I land and roll as the ceiling robot trying to hug Match to death fires a spare arm at me.

-let's make that two. I think they're using optic identification but they might have infrared vision. It's not that hard to make a camera that sees a little further into the red.

Hope your smoke bombs can also disrupt thermal imaging, then. ...What am I saying, they were designed by Batman. Of course they do.

"Kinda hard to do if I can't-"

Okay, if EMP isn't going to work, I could try gel crystal. Have to get it right before they fire. The two robots are spreading out-

Pity you didn't pack some super-acid to splash against their laser and optical apertures. But that could easily backfire on you.

"-ugh-"

-and I guess a dead cat arrow might actually be useful as a distraction right now. Have to tell Roy when we get back.

And yes, they did have arrows that silly.

"-concentrate!"

"Flashbang!"

The flashbang flies into the face of the ceiling robot and explodes, light and sound hopefully overwhelming its sensors. Match has ducked his head and closed his eyes, which-. Well, he'll still be deafened, but he can still see.

Ooh, awkward, with a kryptonian as your partner. At least you warned him in time.

He grabs the arm around his neck with both hands, brings it up to his eyes and exhales, and a layer of frost forms on the metal as it super cools. Superman didn't used to be able to do that, but thanks to Angela all the full kryptonians on Earth can kinda force the air in their lungs to stop vibrating and then breath it out, absorbing all of the heat from the surrounding area as it starts vibrating again. I can feel the chill from-.

Because yes, Kryptonian martial arts are that bullshit powerful...

Whoops.

The sudden change in air pressure in the room blows a hold in my smoke clouds and I just push off the floor without thinking about it. The lasers flash underneath me as I hit the ceiling face-first and I'm reminded again that being a metahuman is actually pretty great because without the Danner formula? I'd have broken my nose at best.

Although you still seem to occasionally forget you are super-strong. Eh, give it another couple of years, you'll be used to it...

"Y-ah!"

I hit the ground and dive out of the line of fire of the robots, getting just enough time to see Match shatter the metal of the arm and free himself before I throw another smoke grenade, roll and dive in the opposite direction. The hug-in-the-box-bot throws its remaining arms at the ground and pulls its bulk down right on top of Match, who breathes freezing air at it again as it descends. It should still be blinded, so how is it-? Vibrations, maybe?

Who says its eyes are in its' body? Could well be using cameras in the room to triangulate and coordinate its movements.

Hit the ground, roll and throw smoke and keep going, preparing a liquid crystal batarang-. Now!

Two lasers point where I would have been if I'd repeated the dodge I used last time, and my batarang hits the closest before it can fire. There's a flash of red as the focusing crystal takes the brunt of the energy from the laser beam and has a meltdown, wrecking the laser.

Okay, one down. Still have to deal with its grabby arms, but at least it can't fry you.

Okay, that works.

I scurry past the woman, who's still unconscious. After I had to drug myself last time, Doctor Mist and Blue Lantern came up with a better way to get someone who'd been Anti-Lifed back on their feet. Liquid hope, with a nebuliser. It's really obvious in an Anti-Life zone when we use it, but I think we're already kinda obvious.

...Yeah, I would think so. Impressive that they managed it, mind.

Stick it over her mouth, hit the switch and jump as the robot without a gun tries charging me down. Twist and push off the ceiling and slap a anti-armor charge on its back, dodge because it can rotate one-eighty at the waist and then dodge again because the explosion threw it at me.

Dead?

I bet the other didn't take a shot because he was next to her. Safety protocols for the win.

If it was designed like a human body then I just took out its neck above the shoulders, so that should be it as far as signals from the head go, but there's a small chance that its brain is in its chest or it uses short-range radio transmitters instead of wires. I didn't pick anything up before, but I'll know if it does it now.

I scramble and stick another charge on its back just in-.

Its arms reverse and grab me!

No reason for it to be limited to human ranges of motion, after all. Should have expected that, kid.

My computer pings a 'transmission detected' message as I shove my hands at its chest and try and stop it bear hugging me! Can't shout to get help from Match because the other robot will aim at the sound! Okay, think it through. Shift to the left-. Yes, it's just grabbing anything it can get hold of. It can't see to change its grip. So if I… Push… And get my knee between the chassis and my chest… I can push… Get a little space, grab another charge and stick it on the arm just below the shoulder and blow it!

At least he can be a bit freer with the explosives because they won't really hurt him unless he catches one to the face. Danner Formula for the win.

BOOM!

The left arm loses all its strength, fingers still gripping but with no link to the upper arm its got no leverage. I slide out that way, its right arm clanking against its chest and then feeling around so try and find me.

Heh. Amusing, but still dangerous.

That's kinda sad.

Then the other robot shoots it, and the laser burns right through the metal. Doesn't stop it trying to find me, it just makes it look more pathetic.

If they were smarter, you know that one would be giving the shooter a dirty look.

Two.

Three.

Four.

Five.

Waiting to see...

The laser flashes out again. Five second recharge time run.

I pound across the stone floor, through the smoke and into the open where the robot is backing up. Guess it heard me. Not going to make it. Three. Draw crystal gel batarang and throw-.

Smart move. No point rushing out of cover until you can predict their firing pattern.

The laser explodes, knocking the robot sideways and I'm sliding under it and reversing direction to slap charges on its upper and lower spine and jumping clear.

"Match, you-" The charges go off and the robot collapses. "-okay in-"

Not quite 'faster than a speeding bullet', but he's still young. Man, his Nightwing identity is going to feel like that one Generations version who's half-kryptonian.

The weird pile of springs and arms shimmers slightly with frost, then shatters into super cooled metal fragments!

"-there?"

...I'd say Match is just fine.

Match brushes off the metal and then shivers, rubbing his arms together for warmth.

"Yeah. Know who she is yet?"

Still got a bit to learn, though. A bit of superspeed vibration would have warmed him up just fine, surely.

"Not yet. I'm gunna take a look at the computer while we wait for her to wake-"

Something big slams into the door. It holds, but the other robots are only gunna keep coming.

...Welp. Grab her and run?

"-up."

Match nods. "I'll hold the door."

I can hear the unspoken sigh. And I suppose they do want to get some data...

Ah, the joy of a fight involving two superhuman teenagers. It wasn't really a matter of if they win, but when. ...And how badly they'd get singed while doing it. I see Robin is still trying to fight like he's human, not really taking as much advantage of his increased durability as he could, but that's kind of a bad habit to get into. Generally, blocking stuff with your face is not clever, especially if you can feel pain.

Vaermina · Oct 9, 2023

Prince Charon said:
IIRC (but note that it's been years since I really watched the cartoon, so my memory may be way off) the YJ-verse versions of the characters often seem to be oddly lacking in intelligence and creativity, except when they need to jump to conclusions to try to convince the audience that they're doing deductive or inductive reasoning.

Na, they 100% could do freeze breath in the cartoon.

That was just one of the nerfs Zoat threw at Kryptonians so this Self Insert could have things easier.

BR549 · Oct 9, 2023

Darko said:
If he's talking about the Nazi world Supergirl then I think Zhe was called Angelika.

Too many Angelas! Angela Blaze is probably whose name got typed out.

Mr Zoat · Oct 9, 2023

Darko said:
If he's talking about the Nazi world Supergirl then I think Zhe was called Angelika.

Thank you, corrected.

moralrelativity · Oct 9, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
in the room blows a hold in my smoke clouds

hold -> hole

Mr Zoat said:
and then feeling around so try and find me.

so -> to

Mr Zoat · Oct 9, 2023

moralrelativity said:
hold -> hole
so -> to

Thank you, corrected.

Ngamer11 · Oct 9, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
He grabs the arm around his neck with both hands, brings it up to his eyes and exhales, and a layer of frost forms on the metal as it super cools. Superman didn't used to be able to do that, but thanks to Angelika all the full kryptonians on Earth can kinda force the air in their lungs to stop vibrating and then breath it out, absorbing all of the heat from the surrounding area as it starts vibrating again. I can feel the chill from-.

Just found this error. That should say 'breathe'.

Duke Long · Oct 9, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
She's only been down about thirty seconds before the robot soldiers went autonomous.

'She'd'?

Mr Zoat said:
They were bouncing him off the floor, but they gave up when it didn't work and how they're just trying to choke him out.

'and now'

Mr Zoat said:
Twist and push off the ceiling and slap a anti-armor charge on its back, dodge because it can rotate one-eighty at the waist and then dodge again because the explosion threw it at me.

'an anti-armor'

Mr Zoat · Oct 9, 2023

Ngamer11 said:
Just found this error. That should say 'breathe'.

Duke Long said:
'She'd'?
'and now'
'an anti-armor'

Thank you, corrected.

RoasterToaster · Oct 9, 2023

Vaermina said:
Na, they 100% could do freeze breath in the cartoon.

That was just one of the nerfs Zoat threw at Kryptonians so this Self Insert could have things easier.

Superman/Kryptonians actually don't have that power (and a few others) in YJ canon. Zoat must have gotten it from AskGreg since Weisman likes the universe to be relatively streamlined. You might be mixing up some scenes of the freezing villains.

website source said:
Flight, Strength, enhanced Invulnerability, Heat Vision, telescopic vision, microscopic vision, X-Ray vision, infrared vision, super hearing, enhanced speed. That's pretty much it. No super-breath. No super-hypnosis.

WTR has been pretty good at incorporating related info from there and the tie-in comics, to my recollection. Making it a kryptonian mystical MA technique (with some connection with sunlight powers, I guess) was a cool way of introducing it in the fic when it didn't exist in the first place IMO. Usually YJ fics just ignore stuff like this and gives everybody the mainstream power package.

Firewillreign · Oct 9, 2023

Vaermina said:
Na, they 100% could do freeze breath in the cartoon.

That was just one of the nerfs Zoat threw at Kryptonians so this Self Insert could have things easier.

Technically true, but Zoat has actually upgraded Kryptonian considerably from the canon versions. Isn't this Superman literally capable of pushing a small moon and flying at massively supersonic speeds, whereas the young justice version is according to the writers barely even a bullet timer.

Old Knife · Oct 10, 2023

At this point Conner should develop it first from a god blessing(breath of winter!) , while Match searches for it because of a side comment made by Paul.
Eventually finding it on some Kryptonian database.

Man. I kinda hope Kon becomes a sort of blessing powered warrior. He's already got the one.

Mr Zoat · Oct 10, 2023

17th February 2013
11:08 GMT -7

I spot John Constantine as he leaves a poker game, cheerfully waving to the now light-walletted FBI agents he just fleeced. They seem irritated, but in a 'what did we think would happen when we agreed to play cards with a wizard' sort of way, rather than a 'let's slash his tires' sort of way.

John's usually pretty good at judging that sort of thing.

And then he spots me, and just shrugs-. Wait. Oh, he's good. He tenses up slightly, but the change in his actual physique is so small that I didn't notice it until I gave him a scan.

Just the man I need.

"Mister Constantine. Augmenting your salary with the tears of rubes?"

"Why?" He fishes out a cigarette and sticks it in his mouth. "Want a game?"

"No, never liked poker. Listen, I'd like your help with a demon problem."

He sucks in air through his teeth, then pointedly exhales. Then he fishes his lighter out of his coat pocket, removes the cigarette from his-

"Look, if you're trying to push the price up you should know that I'd rather just pay what you want rather than-"

-mouth and then lights the end before returning it to his mouth and pocketing the lighter.

"-go through the rigmarole."

"Don't… Don't you have other people you can talk to about things like this?"

"You have a certain amount of field experience that lends itself to finessing problems rather than brute forcing them. My issue right now is that while the actual demands on my time are perfectly manageable, the potential demands on my time are immense. I could escalate the confrontation… Pretty much all the way, but I don't want to."

"Because… You're known for being subtle, yeah..?"

"Mister Constantine. I make you nervous. I accept that. That's why I avoid you as much as possible despite Sunset working here. But-."

"That's not it. Reason I jerked Alec around so much is because… You need to be able to smack someone down, even if you don't want to. It's like… Mutually assured destruction. A threat you don't want to unleash, but you want everyone to know you could."

"I am familiar with the idea, yes." I frown. "Wait, have you been using my name like that?"

"No. But people know that we know each other."

"I mean, I don't mind. I'm a shareholder in this school, so implying something that's true doesn't offend me, but if I'm acting as your guarantor then I'm not paying you for this job."

He exhales sharply through his teeth, half-turning away. "So what is it?"

"What do you know about Triskele?"

"About as much as anyone. Don't think she'd make a deal with you."

"Ah yes, what was it? One innocent soul every five years? And she gets to puppet you in the meantime? Whether she'd make that sort of deal with me or not is irrelevant; I wouldn't make it with her, and even if I was willing the Source has first claim. Issue is… You know about my children?"

"Heard a few things."

"Given that you killed their father, I think it would behoove-" He gurn-winces. "-you to pay a little more attention."

"Didn't think you knew about that."

"Yes, it's almost like I employ a legion of literal mind-readers or something. I'm not criticising you for doing it; he was a murderer and his children would almost certainly have been worse under his guidance. Did you ever find out who the mother was?"

"No. We figured that his brood would be vampires. New ones. Wouldn't be strong enough to cross running water."

"Good effort, but I found your ritual site. Try again, but without the lying."

"Fuck, fine. We knew him and the succubus were up to something on the island. Didn't know what it was, didn't see the kids. We just stuck a general purpose binding and got out, because if they'd have found us they'd have killed us."

A deceiver unmasked is still a deceiver, but I'd like to get him into the habit of lying to me just a little less. It certainly helps that one of his colleagues on that job sided with the Masons and got a full mental trawl before being put in permanent detainment.

"You know that I adopted the youngest. The eldest were eaten by the youngest. The very oldest was called Caroline, and a few hours ago we summoned a succubus of that name. Don't know for certain it was her-."

"Could be. Usually takes longer to turn souls into demons, but if she was mostly demon anyway…"

"She didn't recognise her brother, and claimed not to recognise the version of events I relayed to her. Obvious question: can demons tell direct lies to their summoners?"

"Yeah. For some stuff. A deal's a deal, so if you want them to tell you something honestly you got to make it part of the deal. Outside of that they can tell you whatever they want. Or just keep stumm."

"Can they be compelled to honesty?"

"Yeah. Get their full true name, get the right bindings on them, put them in so much pain that they'll swear on their true name that they're telling the truth… Other than that, it's like anyone else."

"How much do you know about the process of turning mortal souls into demons?"

"Did it, once. Bit of demon blood, a few of my worst parts, one of the better parts and the soul of an inveterate sinner. Mix it all up… And you've got a demon. More or less."

"The normal process."

"No. Got the impression it's not a lot of fun, but that's it."

"Given your profession and likely ultimate destination, don't-" He shivers. "-you think it might be worth putting a little more research time into it?"

He turns back to look me directly in the eyes. "Where are you going with this?"

"I imagine that the souls of the older children went to Triskele, she threw a wobbler when she found out that one of her girls got close to breaking away and altered the minds of her children during their transformation. If so, what I want to do is get them their memories back, ideally without having to launch an invasion of Hell myself."

"… Right. Pretty sure their boss could take you."

"Didn't you once send him back to Hell by tricking him into drinking holy water?"

"… Yeah. That caused a bunch more problems."

"I'll buy two super soakers. Any idea if that's actually something Triskele would do?"

"If it's messed up, she'd do it."

"Any idea what she'd want to undo it?"

"More stuff. Doubt it'd be anything you'd want to give."

"Can you find out without too much risk?"

"Maybe. Easiest way would be to just ask her. Pretty sure the boss lady could summon her and keep her in the circle."

"It may come to that. I'd appreciate it if you could try with subtler means first."

"Getting volunteered, am I?"

"I understand that your brother in law has gotten a bit stuck with a crisis of faith." I take a transmission node out of subspace. "Hide this under his chair. It will allow him to draw on a little of my spiritual power. He'll kick himself up the arse and become an actual person again."

"He wasn't my favourite person before he nearly got my niece killed."

"A word of prophecy, then. In his current state he's ridiculously easy to manipulate by any of your enemies. If you don't take action…"

"Yeah. Fine." He takes it from me and gives it a once-over. "Give me a few days to try some stuff."

"Thank you, Mister Constantine."

Citizen · Oct 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
manipulate my any of your enemies

"By" I think.

SemiAnarchist · Oct 10, 2023

A bold move for Graven there, going to Constantine. Lets see if it pays off for him...

Ngamer11 · Oct 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"Ah yes, what as it? One innocent soul every five years? And she gets to puppet you in the meantime? Whether she'd make that sort of deal with me or not is irrelevant; I wouldn't make it with her, and even if I was willing the Source has first claim. Issue is… You know about my children?"

That should say 'was'.

Mr Zoat said:
"I imagine that the souls of the older children went to Triskele, she threw a wobbler when she found out that one of her girls got close to breaking away and altered the minds of her children during their transformation. If so, what I want to do is get them their memories back, ideally without having to launch an invasion of Hell myself."

"… Right. Pretty sure their boss could take you."

"Didn't you once send him back to Hell by tricking him into drinking holy water?"

"… Yeah. That caused a bunch more problems."

"I'll buy two super soakers. Any idea if that's actually something Triskele would do?"

Can the Renegade take on the First of the Fallen? Or is he just bluffing to make John more agreeable to helping him out?

Mr Zoat said:
"A word of prophecy, then. In his current state he's ridiculously easy to manipulate my any of your enemies. If you don't take action…"

That should say 'by'.

Darko · Oct 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
They seem irritated, but in a 'what did we think would happen when we agreed to play cards with a wizard' sort of way, rather than a 'let's slash his tires' sort of way.

Give them a few more interactions with John and they'll consider slashing his throat.

Mr Zoat said:
"What do you know about Triskele?"

"About as much as anyone. Don't think she'd make a deal with you

Yeah, I'm guessing she'd want to make a deal with someone that she can actually take out if they piss her off.

Mr Zoat said:
"She didn't recognise her brother, and claimed not to recognise the version of events I relayed to her

Even if her conversion was quicker, she may have still been tortured into forgetting.

Mr Zoat said:
"… Right. Pretty sure their boss could take you."

"Didn't you once send him back to Hell by tricking him into drinking holy water

The guy's not very bright, but he has power and a lot of it.

Darko · Oct 10, 2023

Ngamer11 said:
Can the Renegade take on the First of the Fallen? Or is he just bluffing to make John more agreeable to helping him out

I don't think he can take out the First.

Heck, Darkseid may not be able to do it.

But that's only if they fight fair.

The First may be one of the most powerful beings in existence, but he's not that smart, so tricking him is an option.

John could just summon him and renegade can stab him with the Sword of the Fallen.

Gazing Eye · Oct 10, 2023

So he just gave something that lets someone draw on some of his power... To John Constantine...

khansy · Oct 10, 2023

Vaermina said:
Na, they 100% could do freeze breath in the cartoon.

That was just one of the nerfs Zoat threw at Kryptonians so this Self Insert could have things easier.

No. Stop being this way. Get help.

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=22364

Chojin Patriarch · Oct 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
17th February 2013
11:08 GMT -7

I spot John Constantine as he leaves a poker game, cheerfully waving to the now light-walletted FBI agents he just fleeced. They seem irritated, but in a 'what did we think would happen when we agreed to play cards with a wizard' sort of way, rather than a 'let's slash his tires' sort of way.

John's usually pretty good at judging that sort of thing.

Admittedly, the few times he hasn't, it never ended well for anyone. Such is the life of being a bottom-rung hedge-wizard who keeps getting dragged into things way above his pay-grade.

And then he spots me, and just shrugs-. Wait. Oh, he's good. He tenses up slightly, but the change in his actual physique is so small that I didn't notice it until I gave him a scan.

Just the man I need.

Wouldn't be much of a confidence trickster if he couldn't keep a tight rein on his reactions, after all.

"Mister Constantine. Augmenting your salary with the tears of rubes?"

"Why?" He fishes out a cigarette and sticks it in his mouth. "Want a game?"

I don't think you could meet the stakes the Renegade can play for.

"No, never liked poker. Listen, I'd like your help with a demon problem."

He sucks in air through his teeth, then pointedly exhales. Then he fishes his lighter out of his coat pocked, removes the cigarette from his-

Ah, the tired sigh of a man put upon too many times to expect anything but the worst outcome.

"Look, if you're trying to push the price up you should know that I'd rather just pay what you want rather than-"

-mouth and then lights the end before returning it to his mouth and pocketing the lighter.

Oh, don't say that, Renegade. That'll just make his bad mood worse. A man willing to pay any price is either in very deep trouble, or has little knowledge of the value of what he's spending...

"-go through the rigmarole."

"Don't… Don't you have other people you can talk to about things like this?"

Well, they're probably busy with their own affairs. You look pretty much between jobs right now.

"You have a certain amount of field experience that lends itself to finessing problems rather than brute forcing them. My issue right now is that while the actual demands on my time are perfectly manageable, the potential demands on my time are immense. I could escalate the confrontation… Pretty much all the way, but I don't want to."

"Because… You're known for being subtle, yeah..?"

It's more because stomping into Hell would annoy all manner of people.

"Mister Constantine. I make you nervous. I accept that. That's why I avoid you as much as possible despite Sunset working here. But-."

"That's not it. Reason I jerked Alec around so much is because… You need to be able to smack someone down, even if you don't want to. It's like… Mutually assured destruction. A threat you don't want to unleash, but you want everyone to know you could."

And you're worried that you can't make a threat against him that you could back up?

"I am familiar with the idea, yes." I frown. "Wait, have you been using my name like that?"

"No. But people know that we know each other."

...And you're not about to correct any faulty assumptions if it's to your benefit, eh?

"I mean, I don't mind. I'm a shareholder in this school, so implying something that's true doesn't offend me, but if I'm acting as your guarantor then I'm not paying you for this job."

He exhales sharply through his teeth, half-turning away. "So what is it?"

Well done, John... You nearly talked your boss into skipping your consulting fee.

"What do you know about Triskele?"

"About as much as anyone. Don't think she'd make a deal with you."

Well, that remains up in the air...

"Ah yes, what as it? One innocent soul every five years? And she gets to puppet you in the meantime? Whether she'd make that sort of deal with me or not is irrelevant; I wouldn't make it with her, and even if I was willing the Source has first claim. Issue is… You know about my children?"

"Heard a few things."

Hopefully nothing bad, I trust?

"Given that you killed their father, I think it would behoove-" He gurn-winces. "-you to pay a little more attention."

"Didn't think you knew about that."

Oh, the Renegade knows many things. Some of them he can even share with people.

"Yes, it's almost like I employ a legion of literal mind-readers or something. I'm not criticising you for doing it; he was a murderer and his children would almost certainly have been worse under his guidance. Did you ever find out who the mother was?"

"No. We figured that his brood would be vampires. New ones. Wouldn't be strong enough to cross running water."

Heh. Reasonable, given the information you claimed you had...

"Good effort, but I found your ritual site. Try again, but without the lying."

"Fuck, fine. We knew him and the succubus were up to something on the island. Didn't know what it was, didn't see the kids. We just stuck a general purpose binding and got out, because if they'd have found us they'd have killed us."

Yes, well, that part's more or less accurate. They have gotten better, though.

A deceiver unmasked is still a deceiver, but I'd like to get him into the habit of lying to me just a little less. It certainly helps that one of his colleagues on that job sided with the Masons and got a full mental trawl before being put in permanent detainment.

"You know that I adopted the youngest. The eldest were eaten by the youngest. The very oldest was called Caroline, and a few hours ago we summoned a succubus of that name. Don't know for certain it was her-."

Of course, if you were sure, you wouldn't be here.

"Could be. Usually takes longer to turn souls into demons, but if she was mostly demon anyway…"

"She didn't recognise her brother, and claimed not to recognise the version of events I relayed to her. Obvious question: can demons tell direct lies to their summoners?"

No, you don't think she recognised her brother. That little twitch could have been anything, yes, but knowing this universe and its love of coincidences...

"Yeah. For some stuff. A deal's a deal, so if you want them to tell you something honestly you got to make it part of the deal. Outside of that they can tell you whatever they want. Or just keep stumm."

"Can they be compelled to honesty?"

A lie by omission, eh? Just the sort of rules-lawyering you'd expect of Hell.

"Yeah. Get their full true name, get the right bindings on them, put them in so much pain that they'll swear on their true name that they're telling the truth… Other than that, it's like anyone else."

"How much do you know about the process of turning mortal souls into demons?"

Well, if Sunset's monitor was correct, they probably have her true name...

"Did it, once. Bit of demon blood, a few of my worst parts, one of the better parts and the soul of a inveterate sinner. Mix it all up… And you've got a demon. More or less."

"The normal process."

And besides, how many times has that little stunt bitten you in the ass now, John?

"No. Got the impression it's not a lot of fun, but that's it."

"Given your profession and likely ultimate destination, don't-" He shivers. "-you think it might be worth putting a little more research time into it?"

I suspect he tries not to think about that inevitability.

He turns back to look me directly in the eyes. "Where are you going with this?"

"I imagine that the souls of the older children went to Triskele, she threw a wobbler when she found out that one of her girls got close to breaking away and altered the minds of her children during their transformation. If so, what I want to do is get them their memories back, ideally without having to launch an invasion of Hell myself."

Huh. Not an unreasonable hypothesis given what he's observed..

"… Right. Pretty sure their boss could take you."

"Didn't you once send him back to Hell by tricking him into drinking holy water?"

Being dumb doesn't mean he's not powerful. Just consider yourself, Renegade.

"… Yeah. That caused a bunch more problems."

"I'll buy two super soakers. Any idea if that's actually something Triskele would do?"

...Well, I suspect she'd have as much trouble with Holy Water as he did.

Oh, wait, you meant the children.

"If it's messed up, she'd do it."

"Any idea what she'd want to undo it?"

...Probably more than you'd care to pay, methinks.

"More stuff. Doubt it'd be anything you'd want to give."

"Can you find out without too much risk?"

Ah, now we get to the meat of the deal. Getting John to risk himself.

"Maybe. Easiest way would be to just ask her. Pretty sure the boss lady could summon her and keep her in the circle."

"It may come to that. I'd appreciate it if you could try with subtler means first."

In other words, suitably Constantine means.

"Getting volunteered, am I?"

"I understand that your brother in law has gotten a bit stuck with a crisis of faith." I take a transmission node out of subspace. "Hide this under his chair. It will allow him to draw on a little of my spiritual power. He'll kick himself up the arse and become an actual person again."

I hope you've made sure that only the intended target can draw power, Renegade. Or is the unspoken offer that you're letting Constantine have that access?

"He wasn't my favourite person before he nearly got my niece killed."

"A word of prophecy, then. In his current state he's ridiculously easy to manipulate by any of your enemies. If you don't take action…"

Nice phrasing, Renegade. A not-so-subtle suggestion that it will happen, sooner or later. Assuming it isn't already.

"Yeah. Fine." He takes it from me and gives it a once-over. "Give me a few days to try some stuff."

"Thank you, Mister Constantine."

Though the Renegade will no doubt be pursuing other lines of inquiry, I hope.

All right, then. The chances of this little matter going rather tits-up has just increased by quite a bit. Because anything involving Constantine always seems to get more and more complicated until someone ends up dead. Now, the Renegade is probably rather unlikely to suffer that fate, so the question becomes, who will?

Ngamer11 · Oct 10, 2023

I just remembered that Mr Zoat once said the Renegade will lead Harrowings into Hell. This may very well be the beginning of this, or at least the impetus for why he would Harrow Hell. I hope we get to see John Constantine's reaction to the Renegade planning out his own Harrowing.

jaelin910 · Oct 10, 2023

khansy said:
No. Stop being this way. Get help.

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=22364

Pretty sure Vae just likes being wrong or something.
Unrelatedly, I only partially agree with that objection to kryptonian freeze breath. If they have multiple chambers in their lungs then getting a ridiculous volume of very cold air is easy:

Use super-strength to compress a lung-full of air
Store the compressed air in a sealable chamber while reinflating their lungs
Repeat until they're at max capacity
Let the air cool
Exhale

If something about their powers let them do step 4 quicker, then this might just look like superman just breathing in deeply then breathing out but it does actually made some sense.
...up to a point. Even filling his lungs completely with massively compressed air, I'm not sure what we tend to see actually adds up.

Cuchulin · Oct 10, 2023

jaelin910 said:
Pretty sure Vae just likes being wrong or something.

That seems to be the what a lot of people that follow this fic, my self included, think. Honestly? It's best just to ignore them or at least not respond given how often they are wrong.

Mr Zoat · Oct 10, 2023

Citizen said:
"By" I think.

Ngamer11 said:
That should say 'was'.

Thank you, corrected.

Can the Renegade take on the First of the Fallen? Or is he just bluffing to make John more agreeable to helping him out?

He's still got the sword that was used to 'kill' the First. The issue is that the First could easly just avoid a direct physical confrontation and pull apart everything the Renegade has been building.

khansy said:
No. Stop being this way. Get help.

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=22364

You just wait until I give him back the ability to make a smaller, more powerful version of himself.

CTrees · Oct 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
You just wait until I give him back the ability to make a smaller, more powerful version of himself.

You're phrasing this like silver age weirdness, but I have a feeling that he's just going to have a kid, and the circumstances of the event give that kid a higher power level.

Mr Zoat · Oct 10, 2023

CTrees said:
You're phrasing this like silver age weirdness, but I have a feeling that he's just going to have a kid, and the circumstances of the event give that kid a higher power level.

Duke Long · Oct 10, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Then he fishes his lighter out of his coat pocked, removes the cigarette from his-

'pocket'

Mr Zoat said:
"Did it, once. Bit of demon blood, a few of my worst parts, one of the better parts and the soul of a inveterate sinner.

'an inveterate'?

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Connoisseur.

Just zis guy, you know?

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This is filth! FILTH!!

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Know what you're doing yet?

Not too sore, are you?

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Getting some practice in, huh?

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