With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Zoat this episodes says 92 at the beginning it should be 93

 

[RichardWhereat]

Damnit. I liked Peter.

 

[thebishop8]

Likewise, she hasn't ferreted disabled people out hiding to

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Add "of" before "hiding".

But I don't need tell you not to make rude jokes

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Add "to" after "need".

 

[FreeGod]

I think that this is another case where Paul is endangering the team's T rating.

 

[gustyeagle]

Damnit. I liked Peter.

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Really? Why? Every time he is on screen I cringe at the national geographic / in prase of eros
prose.

 

[Lord Ernest]

Raquel should be more mature about this. If there's a Nazi infestation in the mountain that you can't get rid off, just don't hang in the mountain and that's it, is not like she's getting paid for attendance and she can hang out outside the mountain with whomever she's friends with or do superheroing on the side. I mean, who thinks that Batman is going to give the go ahead for Overgirl to go on a mission right away? Or ever?

Oh and, I don't know if anybody noticed, it seems that whoever is abducting the "Pauls" (or in Peter's case, trying) does it when they're around Jade? Could it be that the machine can't really identify the other versions of the SI and is just tracking a frequency or resonance through the multiverse? I think that would explain why it took Clayface, the tracking just guides to a universe and an area but doesn't point out the correct individual? Although that doesn't explain Green Lantern Jade, 'cause Paul wasn't anywhere around, was he? Maybe there are two people messing around the multiverse? (As if one wasn't enough, eh?)

 

[Darko]

She tried to rob Icon.

 

[Handlewithcare]

This is among your best dialogue yet, Zoat, imo.

Raquel's voice is entirely believable, so is Paul's "trying to present all sides of the argument fairly" arguing.

This could absolutely be a discussion real people have, even though the subject matter is entirely fictional of course.

 

[inglorius]

By the way, why Raquel makes such a big deal about nazi specifically? It's personal or just a hot topic for USA?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Jungle Gym

15th March
20:46 GMT -5

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Oh, boy, this is going to be interesting...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

I walk-.

"What-"

I wince-.

"-the-"

Raquel grabs me by the right arm and pulls me around.

"-fuck?!"

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Yeah, she's very much not happy about all of this.

"There's no point whispering. She'll hear us perfectly well if she concentrates."

"What that fuck?"

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Okay, Rocket? Rocket. Contain the calamity that is your mammaries.

"Her culture has engineered a visceral revulsion at the idea of underemployment, she wanted a job and-."

"A Nazi?!"

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Worst case, think of her as opposite-gender Kon.

"You know Canis is worse, right?"

She grimaces, shaking her head. "He's not a Nazi, he's just a.. weird.. art.. guy."

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Someone hasn't been reading the briefing materials...

"Did you..? Miss the bit where he mentioned leading Apokoliptian armies? You've read the files on Apokolips, what did you think they were doing?"

"Fighting a war?"

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Big old blind spot, clearly.

I don't laugh, even though that statement is ridiculous.

"The area around Apokolips is called 'The Waste', because whenever anyone tries settling there Apokoliptian armies go out, kill everyone and destroy everything. Canis personally led at least one campaign of outright extermination and sees nothing wrong with having done so, so, compared to that, the activities of someone who has mostly done the same sort of work as us but in the service of a far less pleasant society is less evil."

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They're like interstellar Vikings, but without the redeeming qualities.

"So she is evil."

"Well that's an interesting philosophical-."

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Not what he was saying, Rocket. Focus.

"Paul."

"No, it is! Let's assume that as a fully indoctrinated National Socialist-"

"Nazi."

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It's weird seeing this from the other side.

"-she sees absolutely nothing wrong with killing someone from one of their scapegoat groups. However, as a result of frantic genocidal purging before her birth she's never met one. Jews are extinct, gypsies are extinct-."

She raises her eyebrows. "Niggers are extinct."

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No, Africa is quite well populated...

"Actually, no, but I go the impression that Kaldur was the first black person she'd ever spoken to. The point is, though she would take part in a genocide if asked, she never has. Likewise, she hasn't ferreted disabled people out hiding to send them to the camps because there aren't any. She hasn't had the opportunity to do the evil she'd be willing to do. What she's actually done is crime fighting and disaster relief. So is she evil-"

"Yes."

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Let him finish, girl.

"-or a good person working for an evil state?"

"Okay, kinda both. An evil person working for an evil state."

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She is just stuck on the whole Nazi thing, isn't she?

"You know she did dinner-" Raquel grimaces. "-tonight, right? Look… Why do we arrest people?"

"Yeah, I don't think Little Miss-"

"She's thirty nine."

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And taking her appearance at face value too...

"-Mz Nazi is gunna go join the Belle Reve Crew."

"Of course not. She hasn't committed a crime here yet."

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Not really helping your point, OL.

Um. Except arguably wearing that red 's' symbol in Germany, where a very similar symbol was banned as part of post-war denazificiation and hasn't been unbanned. But fortunately America has much more broadly-phrased free speech laws.

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Yeah, I wouldn't mention that, either to Rocket or to Overgirl.

"But we perform arrests rather than summary executions-"

"Because we're not Nazis."

"-because we try to rehabilitate people, Miss Breaking-and-Entering. We support a system in which people who break the rules are placed in confinement and gradually re-socialised. That is what I would like us to do for Angelika."

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Because it's been working so well so far, OL?

"I'm cool with confining the bitch."

"You… Ah, you.. mouthing off to her might be a bit of a hard test of her willingness to play along right now."

"Well excuse me, masser!"

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Stop that, you're far to sassy to play 'housemaid'.

I frown. "Oh, don't even. I'm not asking you to calm down a little because you're black, I'm asking you to do it because, firstly, her seeing you as a rational person undermines what she's been taught about black people, and second, because it means that if I've horribly misjudged the situation she's less likely to kill you."

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I'd like to hear the chain of logic behind that... I'm sure it makes perfect sense to Mister Avarice Enlightenment...

"Oh, ah'm not going near her without a my kinetic barrier-."

"She has heat vision."

She frowns. "Superboy didn't have heat vision."

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Different universe, different method.

"It's a different form of hybridisation. She can't match Superman's peak output but it'll still incinerate you."

She stands there for a moment with a decidedly disgruntled expression on her face.

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Really, this whole situation is a big old stress-fest.

"Oh that's a great way to introduce her to the team."

"Not… What I wanted to lead with. But I don't need tell you not to make rude jokes about Darkseid in front of Canis despite the fact that-."

"Worse, yeah, I get it."

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Just please don't go making Nazi Jokes to Overgirl, please...

"If you want to see what true evil looks like I've got a few thousand hours worth of recordings from Vega you can go through. Mid-firefight cannibalism is a high point, and the Citadelian slave-cages match anything the Nazis managed. Or heck, you ever watched a cowboys versus Indians film?"

"Yeah, but I never cheered the cavalry. Spotted that one."

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Not quite what OL is going for, I think...

"What tribes used to live where Dakota City is now? You live there, work there, and I don't see you calling for the city to be demolished."

"I wouldn'a invaded their land and killed them. She would."

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And how are you so sure? Have you been inside her head?

"Okay, look; you don't have to have anything to do with her. I'd appreciate it if you'd help, because at the moment you're one of two black people she's been introduced to and I think you disprove Nazi propaganda pretty hard."

"Gee, thanks."

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Be nice, that's a compliment.

"You're welcome. But you don't have to, and she's probably only going to be here for a week or two anyway."

She sighs angrily.

"What's Superman sayin' about this, anyway?"

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That... Is a Very Good question. I mean, it's only been what, two or three days max, I'm sure he's taken a look over her case.

And the Overgirl plot continues. I suspect Racquel here is not going to be the only one pulling OL aside and demanding answers...

 

[Flux Casey]

This could absolutely be a discussion real people have, even though the subject matter is entirely fictional of course.

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I think if it were a real discussion she would have decked him by the "is she really evil though?" part. But that doesn't really move things along in a way that is functional for the plot. This is the kind of shit real people would nope the fuck out on and just cease all interactions with Paul for. See Maxx Crowley's reaction for what would probably be more realistic to the circumstances.

 

[Darko]

She is black and has a noted hatred of nazi like beliefs plus the fact that most people on earth hate nazis.

 

[Stsword]

Thank you. I'm guessing that didn't go well?

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He used his superpowers and scared her and her friends off.

They never came back, she went back to his house and said basically "Why the $%$%% aren't you a superhero?!"

She then designed his costumed persona, at least a little bit inspired by Superman, because she wanted him to be a paragon, an icon, an inspiration, a symbol of hope like Superman.

In the comics anyway, I don't think the YJ writers ever went into it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Zoat this episodes says 92 at the beginning it should be 93

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Thank you, corrected.

Damnit. I liked Peter.

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Oh, don't worry; Peter's fine, just a bit confused.

Add "of" before "hiding".
Add "to" after "need".

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Thank you, corrected.

By the way, why Raquel makes such a big deal about nazi specifically? It's personal or just a hot topic for USA?

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Nazis are the evildoers in our culture.

I think if it were a real discussion she would have decked him by the "is she really evil though?" part. But that doesn't really move things along in a way that is functional for the plot. This is the kind of shit real people would nope the fuck out on and just cease all interactions with Paul for. See Maxx Crowley's reaction for what would probably be more realistic to the circumstances.

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She might have hit him. She wouldn't have decked him, because 'decked' means 'hit so that they fall to the deck', and his environmental shield would have taken the hit easily.

 

[King of Frost]

This is the kind of shit real people would nope the fuck out on and just cease all interactions with Paul for.

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For trying to change the beliefs of someone who was basically forced to believe the things she believes and hasn't actually done anything bad usually associated with those beliefs?

Paul is right, Canis is worse than her in so many ways but he gets a pass because they don't associate Darksied or the New Gods from Apokolips as anywhere near as bad as the Nazis even though objectively in this fictional universe they are worse.

Edit: This is a weird situation to be in. Defending a fictional nazi and not feeling like a piece of shit for it. Really weird.

 

[Massgamer]

Personally for all the hate that Rocket gets for acting out on her beliefs a bit too quickly I can at least understand it.

 

[Flux Casey]

For trying to change the beliefs of someone who was basically forced to believe the things she believes and hasn't actually done anything bad usually associated with those beliefs?

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Yes. Because for certain groups this whole thing is so charged that rational analysis quite literally isn't possible. Paul can plead ignorance and technical innocence all he wants. But at the end of the day, Angie still thinks it's just fine that her elders slaughtered all those 'undesirables'. And for the people who belong to those groups, that's all they need to know.

 

[TheEyes]

She sighs angrily.

"What's Superman sayin' about this, anyway?"

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Probably the same nothing he said about Kon for months. YJ Supes doesn't seem to be the guy to ask the hard questions of himself, despite being an investigative reporter in his day job.

I think that this is another case where Paul is endangering the team's T rating.

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Canis killed that T rating, killed its family, and razed the planet it was on to the ground for the glory of Darkseid a long while ago.

 

[Stsword]

Was that her only robbery do you know of? Because if so then that is one hell of a bad mark to chose, and if not then I'm curious as to how she rationalizes that.

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It was her first robbery, it might not have been her friends' first robbery though.

It was the night of the "Big Bang," so her friends thought while all the cops are busy with all the gang members they'd drive to the suburbs and rob a mansion.

They convinced her by making it seem like a victimless crime with reasoning along the lines of "Please, the people living in the house we hit will just replace everything we take with the change in their couch cushions," and knowing about her desire to be a writer "We might make enough for you to treat yourself to a typewriter."

Fortunately Icon is bulletproof, because otherwise she would have been guilty of felony murder when her friend annoyed Icon by shooting him repeatedly.

 

[Prince Charon]

Fortunately Icon is bulletproof, because otherwise she would have been guilty of felony murder when her friend annoyed Icon by shooting him repeatedly.

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Hopefully, that made her wonder why she was friends with them (or at least with that one).

 

[Khettien]

By the way, why Raquel makes such a big deal about nazi specifically? It's personal or just a hot topic for USA?

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Assuming you're not from the US, so I'll try to break it down into easy chunks. None of the following is intended in a condescending way, rather I'm trying to be very clear.

Racial politics is a HUGE hot-button issue in America, since before our Civil War in 1861 right up to the present day. For a modern version, feel free to look up 'Black Lives Matter'.

Nazi (National Socialist) teachings consider Aryans to be the 'master race' and inherently superior to all other ethnicities of the human race. Which historical race is actually Aryan is a hotly debated topic, but for most Nazis boils down to blonde haired, blue eyed white people.

Nazis, for political reasons, harbor/harbored an intense distrust and hatred of Jews and Romani (gypsies) ethnicities. All other ethnicities were considered...hmm, property of the state? For most people, that would be closely analogous to slavery.

African-American politics is significantly tied around the issue of slavery, the freedom from it, and the consequences thereof.

The Southern portions of the American Civil War fought, among other reasons, for the right to retain their slaves. When Nazi propaganda spread, the South (ie, the ideological survivors of the loosing side) saw a lot of their own beliefs in the Nazi movement. The largest neo-Nazi cultures in America tend to concentrate in the southernmost states - Alabama, Georgia, and Texas especially.

The odds Raquel hasn't had to deal with a neo-Nazi screaming racial epithets in her face are basically nil, and she'd be extremely lucky if that's all she's had to deal with.

The really funny part, if you have a morbid sense of humor, is that an actual National Socialist party member would haaaate modern American Neo-Nazis.

 

[Old Knife]

What's Superman sayin' about this, anyway?"

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Yeah. Why didn't you tell big blue about his alt daughter?

 

[Darko]

Modern neo nazis at least live up to the name, most of them are ignorant peasants.

 

[Old Knife]

The really funny part, if you have a morbid sense of humor, is that an actual National Socialist party member would haaaate modern American Neo-Nazis.

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that does sound like a good time. Hope zoat makes it happen.

 

[ForeverShogo]

So about what I expected of her. Which is to say, not much.

And technically the Jews and Roma aren't extinct on Earth 10 either. At least not yet. One of the Freedom Fighters is a Roma woman and the other is a black, Jewish man.

Though blacks, Jews, and Roma are probably all considered to be on the verge of extinction.

 

[Stsword]

Jesus, that could have gone much. Much worse for everyone involved if they hit his neighbors instead. It also leaves me with some rather complicated emotions regarding her, especially if nothing was done about her friend SHOOTING someone.

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I cannot claim to be an expert on the series, I read some of it but not all of it, as far as I know Icon was satisfied with scaring them straight.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Really? Why? Every time he is on screen I cringe at the national geographic / in prase of eros
prose.

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Because all he has is money, not a power ring, and he's doing some interesting things.

My favourite is that one in africa who 'owns' a country where supervillains cage fight on ppv. The one Wondy flew over to meet. I hope we'll see him again at some point.

Oh, don't worry; Peter's fine, just a bit confused.

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Yeah, but I always like seeing more of him. Especially at the expense of nazi girl.

Nazis are the evildoers in our culture.

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Aye, even if the Nipponese were objectively worse, the Germans looked like us, and had style, while being one of the worst things we ever produced. Culturally those two things seem inexcusable.

 

[Darko]

Didn't someone previously post something about him taking her to a white power rally would be an eye opening experience.
Her seeing what a majority of people who follow Hitlers philosophy in another world are like would be amusing.

We might not see Sybarite again, Zoat said he wasn't that interesting as a character, basically being a wish fulfilment fantasy about a guy getting powers and amassing a harem of super hot babes.

Zoat odd question but aside from Tuppence and Roulette, has Sybarite slept with any other comic book girls, or boys, and has he slept with anyone from the YJ TV show?
Can you list any of the people he has been in a sexual relationship with?

 

[Galler]

"What that fuck?"

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Should be: "What the fuck?"

 

[hance1986]

"What that fuck?"

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should be ' What the fuck? '

"Oh, ah'm not going near her without a my kinetic barrier-."

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should be ' without my ' take the 'a' out.