With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Timetech · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"My guess would be 'pressure'. He wants compliance but can't come himself. Therefore, he sends his most godly subordinate."

Duke Long · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
She confirming what you just said. I didn't ask her, she's…

'She's'

Mr Zoat said:
There's isn't any sort of universal army of righteousness that might be inclined to take that job on.

'There'

Mr Zoat said:
Any allies their target might have are cowed into neutrality, and no one who could is prepared to send that sort of military force that would be required outside of their own territory.

'the sort of'

Mr Zoat said:
whereas you Citizens all know that you're uncultured raiders who subsist on murder and cannibalism.

Other times that citizens are mentioned in this chapter it isn't capitalised (except at the start of sentences). Not sure if this should be uncapitalised or others should be capitalised, or if there's different context that justifies this.

BlackCoat13 · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
If men the capture are lucky

they

Well. This is a somewhat odd turn, but the New Gods are pretty much universally nuts among the Apocalypse side. Not that the New Genesis side is a bastion of sanity either.

Also, wow, if you hadn't of been kicked off SV before...

Mr Zoat · Dec 16, 2022

moralrelativity said:
the -> they
hunter -> hunted
want to -> want you to

Timetech said:
"My guess would be 'pressure'.

Duke Long said:
'She's'
'There'
'the sort of'

Thank you, corrected.

Other times that citizens are mentioned in this chapter it isn't capitalised (except at the start of sentences). Not sure if this should be uncapitalised or others should be capitalised, or if there's different context that justifies this.

Citizen can be a title (a member of the Citizenry) and a regular description (a citizen of the Citizenry).

BlackCoat13 said:
Also, wow, if you hadn't of been kicked off SV before...

*Main character changes sex and no one treats it as a big deal.*

SV: And I objected to that.

theaceoffire · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Ugh. I… Do have a design for this. Alright, best fit. Widen hips, narrow shoulders, restructure face… And the rest. It's more weird than uncomfortable, though I'm going to need to rely on my armour's motion AI until I adapt.

Bah da! Bah da! Dude looks like a lady!

WereDragon · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Ugh. I… Do have a design for this. Alright, best fit. Widen hips, narrow shoulders, restructure face… And the rest. It's more weird than uncomfortable, though I'm going to need to rely on my armour's motion AI until I adapt.

After being multiple alien species, a demon and a giant inter-stellar skin-flap I would have imagined being a human female wouldn't be all that noteworthy.

Chojin Patriarch · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
1st January 2013
21:59 GMT

"That doesn't match the description of Grayven's ship-."

"No, that's one of his allies. They call themselves the Citizenry. Sending file now."

"I have it-. Grandmother!"

And yes, that is an entirely normal reaction to learning what the Citizenry do. If they weren't so useful to Grayven as shock, terror and massed assault troops, I suspect he would happily have conquered and eradicated them...

"Yes. I suggest a dispersed formation. In the event of an attack, I'll try and intercept the 'providers' at the source, but if they head for the planet you're going to need all the point defences you can get."

"Why would Grayven send… Her?"

They're disposable. If they win, that's done in his name. If they lose, he loses nothing but some lesser troops.

"My guess would be 'pressure'. He wants compliance but can't come himself. Therefore, he sends his most godly subordinate."

"Then he has no intention of allying with us honourably."

Honestly, if you've heard anything about him, would you expect him to? The boy sees only servants, those who will soon be servants and those who will be destroyed.

"Probably not. But on the plus side, we only need to keep her busy until-"

"Uh."

Not that I expect them to play along with any plans you might make...

"-Athyns completes his ritual."

"She is attempting to communicate with me. Their… Leader, Astarte."

Ah, she is still in charge. Her nasty little girl, Theana, hasn't worked up the guts to challenge her yet, then.

"My records don't suggest that she has any sort of speech impediment. She's usually quite good at announcing her-."

"Her speech is clear. But from the sound of it, she is unused to speaking to people who aren't her subjects. Or chattels."

I suppose divine peers would be a rarity out here.

"Oh, it gets better. They give sufficiently bloodthirsty women the chance to become citizens. If men the capture are lucky then they might get raped before they're eaten. They really are the worst of the worst, and I speak with some expertise on the subject."

"Why has-? She confirming what you just said. I didn't ask her, she's… Volunteering the information."

Something I'm sure she is taking great delight in expanding upon...

"At least she's honest. 'Why has' what?"

"Why has no one hunter them down and exterminated them?"

Who? Have they encountered any world that fought them off? Any faction that they chose not to assault? Who would carry word of their exploits?

"Ah, that's a simple one. There's isn't any sort of universal army of righteousness that might be inclined to take that job on. Generally, they pick fights with polities they can beat, and don't leave any survivors. At this point that includes all but the strongest stellar nations. Any allies their target might have are cowed into neutrality, and no one who could is prepared to send that sort of military force that would be required outside of their own territory."

In other words, they're opportunistic raiders, very careful about taking risks. Which makes their service to Grayven even more amusing... Because he seems cavalier about throwing them at targets that might stand up to them...

"What about the Green Lantern Corps?"

"Don't have the numbers or the doctrine. They're police. Law enforcers. Not executioners. They're the sort of thing I'd like the Orange Lantern Corps to deal with once the war with the Reach is finished."

And one day, it will be, and that dream can be brought into being...

"She is demanding that Athyns come and pay obeisance."

And he can't even speak to her without disrupting the ritual. And alright, she probably doesn't know what Athyns look like so we could send someone else…

On the other hand, he is a rather distinctive fellow. At least in this story, all of the Ascendants do share his species, so they might be able to sub in as an envoy.

"Okay. How can I help?"

"I… Was hoping that you would take the lead."

Bit awkward on that front.

"I'm not a member of your society and you aren't allied to N.E.M.O.. I'm happy to advise you, but it's not really my place to take the lead."

"I fear we need you to."

To be fair, the work you've put in on this system... You could probably claim to be a part of their ruling class, even if by invitation.

"Alright. Illustres to Citizenry. May I ask what you're doing-?"

"Are these 'gods' so craven that they cannot answer a simple message?"

Or they don't talk to ravenous vermin. Going to be satisfying to see their arrogance taken down a peg or ten.

Not Themysciran Greek. I've never heard Astarte's voice, but that's not how I thought she'd sound. Could be a subordinate, of course. I'm not a New God or a woman, so she may see no reason to speak with me.

"What do you think I'm doing? Athyns is a busy man. You can't just turn up and expect him to drop everything to tend to you. Am I speaking with Astarte?"

I wonder if they pulled this with Grayven, and how he responded.

"She would not deign to speak with you."

"Then imagine how Athyns feels about the idea of talking to her. Why are you here?"

I mean, it's fairly obvious, but for the record...

"We are here to see if there is anything of this world worth preserving, or if it will all be fed to the providers. The captain had great hopes for Sparta. I assume that she is dead."

"No, she's being held in a secure hospital. It turns out that constantly lying to your subordinates doesn't exactly endear you to them."

Yeah, she kind of skimped on leadership skills in favour of warfare.

"That is disappointing. Citizens have no need for deceit."

"That's a shame. At least people who are being lied to can claim that they didn't know what was happening, whereas you Citizens all know that you're uncultured raiders who subsist on murder and cannibalism. You have no excuse for your inadequacy."

Oooh, burn. Well, if you're trying to rile them up, that'll set a fire under them.

"I will take pleasure in-"

"Not available."

"-gelding you before killing you."

His fiancee might take exception to that... If it were capable of being permanent.

"I'd threaten your ovaries, but you're not worth the time it would take. What does a man have to do to get challenged to single combat around here?"

"Be a woman."

"Uppercut, Jab, Haymaker, Piledriver!"
"Them;'s fighting words! Putcher dukes up!"

Ah, now isn't the time for a discussion on the discontinuation of the word 'wereman' in Modern English.

"Fine, that'll take me a few seconds. Anything else?"

I doubt she'd be interested in the linguistic derivation anyway, given the Citizenry's language probably isn't so refined...

"What?"

"I can change my body's structure. I've never used it to become a woman, but if that's one of your requirements I think I'll survive. Is there anything else?"

...Whoa. Are you really going there? In-universe Rule 63 invocation!

"As a.. woman, you could challenge a citizen for their place."

She doesn't sound certain. I shake my head inside my helmet. She just stated the official default position of the Citizenry, rather than focus on the mission Grayven's set of them. Astarte's an authority-hog, isn't she?

To be fair, would they care about the details of any directive Grayven gives them, sicne said directives probably boil down to 'Go kill that planet, would you.'

"In case my scathing contempt wasn't obvious, I wouldn't lower myself to join you. I just want you to leave this system and never come back."

"That is not up for negotiation."

Let's see if you're still so confident in a few minutes...

"Says you. All I have to do is challenge everyone on your ship to single combat and beat them."

"We won't stop our mission to entertain you, caitiff."

Caitiff, for the record. Though I suspect they would call anyone who uses methods other than all-out attack that...

"I speak for Minosyss in Athyns' absence because I have proven my capability as a warrior. Which you would know if Grayven mentioned the fact that I stopped his ship single-handedly during the one confrontation between N.E.M.O. and… Whatever you're calling yourselves. You might well be able to bypass me, but no one here would have any respect for you if you did. Astarte-."

Ugh. I… Do have a design for this. Alright, best fit. Widen hips, narrow shoulders, restructure face… And the rest. It's more weird than uncomfortable, though I'm going to need to rely on my armour's motion AI until I adapt.

And so Paul becomes...

Pauline? I wonder what Jade will make of this if he tells her about it later. (And boy, is that a weird thing for someone to wonder: What you'd have been called if you'd been born a different gender.)

"Astarte, I'm a citizen of Themyscira. I serve Queen Hippolyta, and was apprenticed to her daughter, Princess Diana. So I speak with some authority when I say that they would be horrified and disgusted by how far you've fallen and that I'm confident that there's a special place in Tartarus reserved for you."

"Fight me."

And with that, you've reduced the male population of Themyscira by a quarter or so...

Temporarily, mind. (Leaving Kon, Mitch and... Daniel Hall? Maybe Hector too?)

And things just got extra-weird. The things OL will do to complete his chosen mission. Let's hope he can back up his bravado with actual skill, and that Athyn's ritual does make a difference in the defence against the Citizenry. Otherwise, this might end up being like the defence of Ulster in the tales of Cú Chulainn. Though anything would be an improvement over how it ended for him.

If men the capture are lucky...

If men they capture are lucky...

Citizen · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Citizen can be a title (a member of the Citizenry) and a regular description (a citizen of the Citizenry).

Hey, don't bring me into this. I'm not affiliated with these nut cases, they're an entire order of fries short of a happy meal.

DAT_NOOB · Dec 16, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
And with that, you've reduced the male population of Themyscira by a quarter or so... Temporarily, mind. (Leaving Kon, Mitch and... Daniel Hall? Maybe Hector too?)

Was Mitchell awake in the paragon timeline yet?

Ngamer11 · Dec 16, 2022

DAT_NOOB said:
Was Mitchell awake in the paragon timeline yet?

He is, he just isn't that featured compared to the Renegade timeline.

doug89 · Dec 16, 2022

Odd question, can she call herself Paula, or would the block on her name still prevent that?

jasonh23761 · Dec 16, 2022

Well, instead of a boy named Sue, we have a girl named Paul. Not what I was expecting but alrighty then.

Pez · Dec 16, 2022

story said:
"Astarte, I'm a citizen of Themyscira. I serve Queen Hippolyta, and was apprenticed to her daughter, Princess Diana. So I speak with some authority when I say that they would be horrified and disgusted by how far you've fallen and that I'm confident that there's a special place in Tartarus reserved for you."

"Fight me."

Real shame Paul isn't a god. If he managed to pull out some godspeak before the final challenge, it would have been rather epic. At least Paul (Paula?) has proven that, no matter how divine boobies are, they don't make one divine.

Dur'id the Druid · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Astarte, I'm a citizen of Themyscira. I serve Queen Hippolyta, and was apprenticed to her daughter, Princess Diana. So I speak with some authority when I say that they would be horrified and disgusted by how far you've fallen and that I'm confident that there's a special place in Tartarus reserved for you."

Is this group an offshoot of Themyscira? Or have history with them?

Ngamer11 · Dec 16, 2022

Dur'id the Druid said:
Is this group an offshoot of Themyscira? Or have history with them?

Their leader is Hippolyta's sister, but otherwise they have no affiliation with the Amazons.

Darko · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
look like so we could

'looks like'

Darko · Dec 16, 2022

Dur'id the Druid said:
Is this group an offshoot of Themyscira? Or have history with them?

Ngamer11 said:
Their leader is Hippolyta's sister, but otherwise they have no affiliation with the Amazons.

The Citizenry may be older than the entire Amazon civilization.

They took Astarte from her people when Hippolyta was still a baby.

Darko · Dec 16, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
In other words, they're opportunistic raiders, very careful about taking risks. Which makes their service to Grayven even more amusing... Because he seems cavalier about throwing them at targets that might stand up to them

If they loose the fight then he doesn't loose anything, but if they win then they improve and he gets better killers.

Chojin Patriarch said:
On the other hand, he is a rather distinctive fellow. At least in this story, all of the Ascendants do share his species, so they might be able to sub in as an envoy

They may trick them with how he appears, but Astarte could potentially sense that the one playing him lacks the spiritual characteristics of a leader.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I wonder if they pulled this with Grayven, and how he responded

I'm getting the image of him firing a single shot that cripples their ship, or, more hilariously, Grayven opens a Boom Tube and puts his arm through it so that he can strangle Astarte after he gets tired of her prattle.

Chojin Patriarch said:
His fiancee might take exception to that... If it were capable of being permanent.

If Astarte does it then it may be permanent due to weird metaphysical shit.

draconomial · Dec 16, 2022

I think it's wild that Zoat was banned from other communities for disrespecting transgender people, and here they are now with their SI doing a voluntary gender swap. I'm not offended one way or another, I just enjoy reading the story. But at the same time I see that the nonchalant way that OL swapped sexes reflects Zoat's lack of value for modern gender roles and dynamics.
I don't think it's wrong to feel that switching your sex doesn't matter, maybe because you're still the same person on the inside regardless of what you look like. But I wouldn't disrespect the effort and struggle that someone else experiences due to their sex and gender.
Astarte isn't getting a whole lot of time to process whether or not the man who's about to, and then does, look like a woman really is a woman as she defines women. She's not going to get a whole lot of time either, as she's going to get her face punched in by fem-OL.

Old Knife · Dec 16, 2022

This got weird. I kind of miss pragmatic Paul who would have simply exterminated them.

Ganurath · Dec 16, 2022

It's been a while since I've seen WTR fanart.

Rebu · Dec 16, 2022

I've heard of "pick on someone your own size", but this is ridiculous!

Stsword · Dec 16, 2022

Dur'id the Druid said:
Is this group an offshoot of Themyscira? Or have history with them?

The Citizenry are an all female nomadic civilization.

Back when Queen 'Lyta was a child they came to Earth.

The Amazons brokered a deal where the Citizenry left Earth in peace in return for giving up Astarte, 'Lyta's sister, as tribute.

Astarte grew up to be the leader of the Citizenry because like Wakanda the monarch is determined by single combat, and none of them were a match for her Amazon powers. Here, since Zoat doesn't like giving Amazons anything worthwhile, it was Astarte's demigod powers.

Now under Astarte's leadership they roam from planet to planet, stealing children, recruiting women, and turning the rest of the planet into soylent green. They were not this messed up before Astarte's leadership.

In the comics Wonder Woman defeated her aunt and as the new monarch, told them to cut this shit out, which they were happy to do, they seemed to follow Astarte out of fear and loyalty to the rules as opposed to love of eating people porridge.

The storyline was very Rousseau Was Right, what with the cannibal pirates being happy to stop being cannibal pirates when given the opportunity.

Titansfall · Dec 16, 2022

This is reminding me of the old fanart of M'gann turning herself into a genderbent Paul

Bud-E · Dec 16, 2022

Mr. Zoat is Hinnon bald like most guardians/controllers?

PDV · Dec 16, 2022

Pez said:
Real shame Paul isn't a god. If he managed to pull out some godspeak before the final challenge, it would have been rather epic.

Mr Zoat said:
"Astarte, I'm a citizen of Themyscira. I serve Queen Hippolyta, and was apprenticed to her daughter, Princess Diana. So I speak with some authority when I say that they would be horrified and disgusted by how far you've fallen and that I'm confident that there's a special place in Tartarus reserved for you."

"Fight me." "GET OVER HERE!!!"

~~Maybe she did.~~

AmericanNumbers · Dec 16, 2022

I've said before that it's a fun contrast between Paragon and Renegade as to how they face similar challenges.
I feel like this is one where Paragon goes thru the Citizenry like a hot knife thru butter since he hacks thru these physical combats rather than glory in them and the Citizenry are not prepared.

transhumansage · Dec 16, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Fight me."

couldnt you wipe them out here and now? wouldnt that solve the problem for good? or is this not all of them? what did gravyen!paul do with them eventually? i dont remember reading a chapter where he dealt with them for good after encountering them.

BlackCoat13 said:
Also, wow, if you hadn't of been kicked off SV before...

Mr Zoat said:
*Main character changes sex and no one treats it as a big deal.*

SV: And I objected to that.

wait why would they kick you off? I thought they were all for LGBTQ+ rights.

Mr Zoat · Dec 16, 2022

Darko said:
'looks like'

Thank you, corrected.

draconomial said:
But at the same time I see that the nonchalant way that OL swapped sexes reflects Zoats lack of value for modern gender roles and dynamics.

Zoat's

Edit: deleted what was here due to it probably being modern politics.

Bud-E said:
Mr. Zoat is Hinnon bald like most guardians/controllers?

No.

Stsword said:
The Citizenry are an all female nomadic civilization.

Back when Queen 'Lyta was a child they came to Earth.

The Amazons brokered a deal where the Citizenry left Earth in peace in return for giving up Astarte, 'Lyta's sister, as tribute.

Nearly. The would take '100 exceptional females from each planet, restock previsions, and leave.'. Taking enough food from the Earth of 3000 years ago to feed a fleet would devastate most places through mass starvation.

Astarte grew up to be the leader of the Citizenry because like Wakanda the monarch is determined by single combat, and none of them were a match for her Amazon powers. Here, since Zoat doesn't like giving Amazons anything worthwhile, it was Astarte's demigod powers.

I made the average Amazon as strong as the average man.

In the comics Wonder Woman defeated her aunt and as the new monarch, told them to cut this shit out, which they were happy to do, they seemed to follow Astarte out of fear and loyalty to the rules as opposed to love of eating people porridge.

I'd be careful with the 'they'. Zusen seemed fine with it, but that was one ship out of two hundred thousand.

The storyline was very Rousseau Was Right, what with the cannibal pirates being happy to stop being cannibal pirates when given the opportunity.

Except there was no follow-up. Diana was completely reliant on Zusen keeping her word AND being in a position to do so AND following the spirit and not the letter of the agreement.

transhumansage said:
wait why would they kick you off? I thought they were all for LGBTQ+ rights.

No, they're for minority rule and privilege. Thus, anything that can be considered offensive to LGBTQJKLEUSH+ by anyone is an offence, whether or not there is anything objectively objectionably about it.

Ganurath · Dec 16, 2022

transhumansage said:
wait why would they kick you off? I thought they were all for LGBTQ+ rights.

Using female pronouns for a male character with a female body (thanks to the Hero Dial) followed by doubling down against the mods when it became a problem.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Getting some practice in, huh?

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