With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Mr Zoat · Jan 8, 2024

Mquz said:
I'd like it if this were the timeline where he was only bad for a little bit, but turned good again eventually.

How are we defining 'good'?

Coltsguy said:
I'll admit that I might have without the context I'm getting to read.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand that sentence. How can I aid your understanding?

Darko · Jan 8, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
How are we defining 'good'?

I'm guessing a good place to start is him having empathy.

Mr Zoat said:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand that sentence. How can I aid your understanding

I think they meant that they wouldn't know that he was evil if they didn't already know his inner thought process and where he will end up in the future.

Mr Zoat · Jan 8, 2024

Darko said:
I'm guessing a good place to start is him having empathy.

Is empathy necessary to do or be good?

Kantian ethics don't require any particular fondness for other people. Indeed, they appear to regard it negatively, because if you're only doing good because it feels good then you'd do evil if that felt good as well.

Utilitarianism judges things by results. Here empathy is useful as a fuzzzy logic tool, but it's usually accepted that it may be necessry to do unpleasent things to achieve a larger good.

I think they meant that they wouldn't know that he was evil if they didn't already know his inner thought process and where he will end up in the future.

Ah, yes. Artemis is questioning him more closely because he's hitting on her and because she knows how villainous psychos behave.

The Froggy Ninja · Jan 8, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
Is empathy necessary to do or be good?

Kantian ethics don't require any particular fondness for other people. Indeed, they appear to regard it negatively, because if you're only doing good because it feels good then you'd do evil if that felt good as well.

Utilitarianism judges things by results. Here empathy is useful as a fuzzzy logic tool, but it's usually accepted that it may be necessry to do unpleasent things to achieve a larger good.

Utilitarianism, as a decision making system, requires a terminal goal to function, and that terminal goal needs to be "maximize well being" for it to be an ethical system. Without empathy you are significantly more likely to choose a terminal goal like "accumulate power and pleasure for myself" because you don't have the empathic incentive to value the well being of others as a goal unto itself.

Kantian ethics don't explicitly require that you value good things as long as you conform to ethical behavior but, in practice, a person for whom good doesn't feel good but evil does is significantly less likely to behave ethically.

So while empathy isn't a universal prerequisite for morality, we can see that it is in Paul's case specifically.

Mquz · Jan 8, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
How are we defining 'good'?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand that sentence. How can I aid your understanding?

I was mostly going for any variation of "this isn't actually Tangseid, but an alternate timeline version of him that started off the same way, but changed / will change along the way." Since smaller universes and alternate timelines are a possible thing now that Time Master OL did his thing. There's nothing stopping that sort of pocket universe time travel situation happening to this version of OL for instance. We'd have Tangseid Alter or something.

Vaermina · Jan 8, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
Is empathy necessary to do or be good?

In the DC universe, absolutely. Because "Good" and "Evil" are measurable things there.

In a more real life setting? See The Froggy Ninja's answer.

moralrelativity · Jan 9, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
one of Earth's most advanced robot…

robot -> robots

Mr Zoat said:
point to the blood extraction array I build to draw her blood.

build -> built

Prince Charon · Jan 9, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
There's a pulse of violet light through the room and I get a look at who I hit as they slam into a bookcase. Looks like… A really skinny midget someone stuck a crocodile head on. Nothing I remember from any of Clarice's bestiaries, though 'vulnerable to iron' and 'disguised with magic' do suggest some sort of fae creature. Not carrying any iron chains, constructs don't work…

Looking at older chapters, and the link in this one doesn't seem to lead to an image anymore.

Mr Zoat · Jan 9, 2024

moralrelativity said:
robot -> robots
build -> built

Thank you, corrected.

Prince Charon said:
Looking at older chapters, and the link in this one doesn't seem to lead to an image anymore.

Thank you, probably-corrected.

Mr Zoat · Jan 9, 2024

11th October 2010
11:52 GMT -5

I turn the lights on, and Artemis is already recoiling-. Then she stops.

"What?"

"You told me that you wanted me to get a hobby that didn't involve cutting up small animals. I.. worked out that you didn't mean that you wanted me to do testing on larger animals, so-"

"Yeah, good."

She walks over to one of the displays and picks up a miniature.

"-I-."

"Oh, they're like… Army men."

…

Perhaps I should have just built a girlfriend? I have all of Tomorrow Woman's specifications and it wouldn't be that hard to generate an agreeable personality matrix-.

No, no. There's no reason for her to have encountered Warhammer 40,000 before. Be reasonable.

"It's a British science fiction wargame."

"Oh." She puts the gargoyle down and picks up a pulsa rocket. "So… They fight each other?"

I take a calming breath. "When I was… Thirteen? My mother made it clear to me that other people won't necessarily find things as interesting as I do. This is something that I'm really into, and I've finally got the ability to get into it as much as I want to. So while I can happily quote chapter and verse about everything here, you… Might find it better to specify what you want to know."

She looks concerned, but I think it's more 'oh God a nerd' concerned rather than 'I'm getting serial killer vibes' concerned. "What are these.. green ones?"

Thank you.

"Orks."

"And those are… Rockets?

"Pulsa rockets. Basically, a rocket motor on a force field projector. They fire them at enemy armies and the force field knocks any soldier anywhere near it over."

"You've… Got a lot of them."

I nod, smiling. 16 of them, enough to pin most armies for an entire game. Not quite enough against Tyranids some of the time, but I couldn't quite fit 24 in under the points limit.

"The army represents an artillery battery. You see the-" Almost fair. "-fellow with the big gun and the tiny green things?"

"Uh, yeah?"

"That's a teleportation gun. It opens a portal in space, they chase the little ones through it and send them into a berserk frenzy, and they appear inside vehicles and slaughter the crew."

"And the guys with wheels for legs?"

A Warboss in mega armour with a kustom shoota, gyro-stabilised monowheel and a small group of Bigbosses with the same. 8" basic movement, 16" charge, an average of 4 S6 shots per turn at BS6/5 but which could be 6 S10 shots each, WS7 for the Warboss due to his spike attack arm and WS5 for the Bigbosses which isn't so impressive, but they were mostly fighting people who escaped the pulsa field or vehicles anyway and their power fists were enough for that. I considered giving the Warboss combat drugs for a 32" charge range but I decided that it would leave him too isolated.

"Effectively, heavy cavalry for counter-attacking. Everything else is shooting."

She points to the gretchin. "What about-?"

"Meat shields. Most units have to shoot whatever's closest, so those stand between the important stuff and the enemy and take bullets for them."

"Huh." She turns to the Tyranids. "What about these Alien.. big monster things? You've got a lot of the same thing."

"Tyranids. And those are gargoyles. Flying monsters with flamethrowers. Under most circumstances that's enough to wipe out all enemy infantry on turn two. The big ones are Hive Tyrants, and it's their job to shoot heavier things and kill enemy wizards with their magic."

I just about manage not to wince at putting it like that. Naturally, the zoanthropes are the vehicle killers and the main user of force cards as other than Psychic Scream Tyranid psychic powers are pretty bad, and the gargoyle broods are minimum size to limit the effects of leadership failures.

Artemis looks them over, obviously fails to comprehend and moves along the row. "And these guys are humans?"

Scout squads with teleport homers, techmarines with warp jumps and vortex grenades and a swarm of customised vehicles with as many assault cannons as they have weapon mounts. Turn one mass teleport followed by everything important in the enemy army vanishing into the warp, unless they've got a vortex detonator or a teleport jammer in which case you lose. I think that the original version of this build used jump packs instead of warp jumps, but that seemed to be aiming for a turn two crippling and risked the techmarines being shot or zoned out.

"Yes."

She moves along the line. "And these are ogres?"

Ogryn with ripper guns mounted in chimera IFVs with supercharged engines, ablative armour and bulldozer blades, a force designed to cross the table in a single turn and drop off the ogryn within 'literally can't miss' range and blow away anything that can be killed by S4 fire. I read about that tactic in White Dwarf, and that version added a commissar to increase the BS of the multilaser turret. But as far as I can tell from the main rulebook only crew and engineers can fire a tank's weapons, and while I could get BS5 by jumping a techpriest with a bionic eye in on turn 1 it didn't seem worth it. The rest of the army is intended to minmax the preparatory bombardment rule, because no other army in the game can wipe out an enemy before turn 1.

"Big, mutant humans. From high gravity worlds."

"Huh. So… Do you play with them?"

"No. These armies were designed for the game's second edition. The game is on its fifth edition now. Most of these units don't even exist anymore."

"Okay. Did you paint them?"

"No, I never had the patience for that. I designed the paint scheme and had the ring do it."

She shrugs, shaking her head. "Then..?"

"I like designing the army lists as a composition exercise. And I like having them."

Though the next one was going to be an entirely tournament-legal Necron writhing worldscape/tremorstaves list, because 'the floor is lava, and so is everything else' seems like an amusing thing to inflict on someone.

"Okay." She puts down Nork Deddog. "That's…" She nods. "No animals hurt. You did what I asked."

Ah…

"The original versions of most of those models were made of lead, so…"

Sport, you've got a situation.

I didn't think I was doing that badly. Okay, girl and wargaming, but as far as that goes-.

"Could you teach me how to play?"

I blink.

I… Keep blinking.

She looks at me. "What?"

"Ah, sorry. Ring… Message. Yes?"

"The gynoid is waking up."

"What? She's down to two fifths of a brain, how can she be waking up?"

"I don't know what to tell you, sport. Her eyes are focusing and her fingers are twitching in a controlled sort of way."

The nanotech-.

"Right, we're heading that way now, please inform Mia. Artemis." I lean in and briefly kiss her on the lips, an action that appears to take her by surprise. "I would be delighted to."

Ngamer11 · Jan 9, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
11th October 2010
11:52 GMT -5

Missing threadmark.

AmericanNumbers · Jan 9, 2024

I mean that's a win so big you can see it from space for that lad.

Z000 · Jan 9, 2024

so why did he stall out like a dead car like that

can he just not comprehend that she willing to be interest in his nerd hobby

Vaermina · Jan 9, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"What? She's down to two fifths of a brain, how can she be waking up?"

As if that means anything to something created by Brainiac.

Chojin Patriarch · Jan 9, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
11th October 2010
11:52 GMT -5

I turn the lights on, and Artemis is already recoiling-. Then she stops.

"What?"

Ah, what is it this time? Dismantled mechanical lifeforms? Tubes filled with biological aberrations? Cages of super-powered mice? After all, given that Tang here is basically the 'friendly mad scientist' of the Justice League-affiliated community...

"You told me that you wanted me to get a hobby that didn't involve cutting up small animals. I.. worked out that you didn't mean that you wanted me to do testing on larger animals, so-"

"Yeah, good."

And it's awful that you had to even debate that for a moment.

She walks over to one of the displays and picks up a miniature.

"-I-."

Ah... So, not working on larger animals.

"Oh, they're like… Army men."

…

Heh. I like that he's almost more uncomfortable than if she'd found a lab full of modified animals.

Perhaps I should have just built a girlfriend? I have all of Tomorrow Woman's specifications and it wouldn't be that hard to generate an agreeable personality matrix-.

No, no. There's no reason for her to have encountered Warhammer 40,000 before. Be reasonable.

To be fair, having a huge Warhammer collection would be one of the things I'd do with a Power RIng driven by my desires.

"It's a British science fiction wargame."

"Oh." She puts the gargoyle down and picks up a pulsa rocket. "So… They fight each other?"

...Something like that, yes. I see Tang is an old school grognard.

I take a calming breath. "When I was… Thirteen? My mother made it clear to me that other people won't necessarily find things as interesting as I do. This is something that I'm really into, and I've finally got the ability to get into it as much as I want to. So while I can happily quote chapter and verse about everything here, you… Might find it better to specify what you want to know."

She looks concerned, but I think it's more 'oh God a nerd' concerned rather than 'I'm getting serial killer vibes' concerned. "What are these.. green ones?"

And Tang gets to enjoy talking about the sheer craziness of the early years of Warhammer 40k.

Thank you.

"Orks."

Ah, 2nd Edition, the era between the psuedo-RPG Skirmish game of 1st Edition and the large-army wargames of later editions.

"And those are… Rockets?

"Pulsa rockets. Basically, a rocket motor on a force field projector. They fire them at enemy armies and the force field knocks any soldier anywhere near it over."

And yes, that is as annoying as it sounds for your opponent.

"You've… Got a lot of them."

I nod, smiling. 16 of them, enough to pin most armies for an entire game. Not quite enough against Tyranids some of the time, but I couldn't quite fit 24 in under the points limit.

...If you didn't already know he was evil, this would confirm it right quick.

You monster.

"The army represents an artillery battery. You see the-" Almost fair. "-fellow with the big gun and the tiny green things?"

"Uh, yeah?"

To be fair, that can refer to just about anything in an Ork army. Big green guys, big guns and little green guys are its lifeblood, after all.

"That's a teleportation gun. It opens a portal in space, they chase the little ones through it and send them into a berserk frenzy, and they appear inside vehicles and slaughter the crew."

"And the guys with wheels for legs?"

Ah, the Shokk Attack Gun. Always fun then you zap the pilot of a Dreadnaught, and see it standing there dead all game... Or even better, it goes nuts and starts shooting it's allies.

A Warboss in mega armour with a kustom shoota, gyro-stabilised monowheel and a small group of Bigbosses with the same. 8" basic movement, 16" charge, an average of 4 S6 shots per turn at BS6/5 but which could be 6 S10 shots each, WS7 for the Warboss due to his spike attack arm and WS5 for the Bigbosses which isn't so impressive, but they were mostly fighting people who escaped the pulsa field or vehicles anyway and their power fists were enough for that. I considered giving the Warboss combat drugs for a 32" charge range but I decided that it would leave him too isolated.

Yeah, early Ork armies could be very strange. Though it's par for the course of the Era. Ask any old beardy git about Squats someday.

"Effectively, heavy cavalry for counter-attacking. Everything else is shooting."

She points to the gretchin. "What about-?"

On the other hand, the game did have a strong focus on Hero models at the time. Typically as much as 50% of an army's points, and they tended to dominate battles, often by chaining melee combats with their ~~cheering squads~~ bodyguards.

"Meat shields. Most units have to shoot whatever's closest, so those stand between the important stuff and the enemy and take bullets for them."

"Huh." She turns to the Tyranids. "What about these Alien.. big monster things? You've got a lot of the same thing."

Such is the nature of a Tyranid army. Hordes of little gits, with a few medium- and huge-sized guys to hold their leashes.

"Tyranids. And those are gargoyles. Flying monsters with flamethrowers. Under most circumstances that's enough to wipe out all enemy infantry on turn two. The big ones are Hive Tyrants, and it's their job to shoot heavier things and kill enemy wizards with their magic."

I just about manage not to wince at putting it like that. Naturally, the zoanthropes are the vehicle killers and the main user of force cards as other than Psychic Scream Tyranid psychic powers are pretty bad, and the gargoyle broods are minimum size to limit the effects of leadership failures.

...I wonder what a Martian would make of the Tyranids? if nothing else, they might get inspired for combat forms.

Artemis looks them over, obviously fails to comprehend and moves along the row. "And these guys are humans?"

Scout squads with teleport homers, techmarines with warp jumps and vortex grenades and a swarm of customised vehicles with as many assault cannons as they have weapon mounts. Turn one mass teleport followed by everything important in the enemy army vanishing into the warp, unless they've got a vortex detonator or a teleport jammer in which case you lose. I think that the original version of this build used jump packs instead of warp jumps, but that seemed to be aiming for a turn two crippling and risked the techmarines being shot or zoned out.

...Wow, that's an evil configuration... Unless your opponent anticipates it. And it's the sort of crazy extreme army that a ~~mad~~ clever player could come up with, back in the days before 'Balanced' armies.

"Yes."

She moves along the line. "And these are ogres?"

Probably a good thing you aren't actually trying to tell her these things, Tang. It's already confusing enough.

Ogryn with ripper guns mounted in chimera IFVs with supercharged engines, ablative armour and bulldozer blades, a force designed to cross the table in a single turn and drop off the ogryn within 'literally can't miss' range and blow away anything that can be killed by S4 fire. I read about that tactic in White Dwarf, and that version added a commissar to increase the BS of the multilaser turret. But as far as I can tell from the main rulebook only crew and engineers can fire a tank's weapons, and while I could get BS5 by jumping a techpriest with a bionic eye in on turn 1 it didn't seem worth it. The rest of the army is intended to minmax the preparatory bombardment rule, because no other army in the game can wipe out an enemy before turn 1.

I do remember an old anecdotal incident with an Infiltrating kroot army versus a White Scar army that didn't even start on the table turn one. Almost as big a 'fuck you' as dropping dozens of unit-shattering artillery blasts on your opponent.

"Big, mutant humans. From high gravity worlds."

"Huh. So… Do you play with them?"

Pfft. Only once, after his opponent experienced those tactics.

"No. These armies were designed for the game's second edition. The game is on its fifth edition now. Most of these units don't even exist anymore."

"Okay. Did you paint them?"

It's even worse these days. Most classic Space Marine units have been quietly retired by way of being 'updated' to new, more limited 'Primaris' units...

"No, I never had the patience for that. I designed the paint scheme and had the ring do it."

She shrugs, shaking her head. "Then..?"

...Man, another thing I'd do if I had a Power Ring. No more Backlog Mountain for me!

"I like designing the army lists as a composition exercise. And I like having them."

Though the next one was going to be an entirely tournament-legal Necron writhing worldscape/tremorstaves list, because 'the floor is lava, and so is everything else' seems like an amusing thing to inflict on someone.

Oh, that's just vicious. it would not earn you any friends after showing it off. Though you gain many enemies.

"Okay." She puts down Nork Deddog. "That's…" She nods. "No animals hurt. You did what I asked."

Ah…

...Honestly, as charming as the classic models are, some have improved with time. Though it really comes down to personal preference.

"The original versions of most of those models were made of lead, so…"

Sport, you've got a situation.

Heh. One more thing I'd do with a Power Ring: Use assorted materials to fabricate durable models, in any pose I like with any weapon I like, sprue limitations bedamned. Better than modern kits which give you five to ten fixed-pose bodies and limited weapon options that fit those poses...

I didn't think I was doing that badly. Okay, girl and wargaming, but as far as that goes-.

"Could you teach me how to play?"

...Oh, my. And now I wonder what army she'd play. Eldar, perhaps? It seems the tricksy style she might prefer. Psychic misdirection and overwhelming firepower...

I blink.

I… Keep blinking.

Yeah, that's about the reaction most modern gamers would have when experiencing this sort of mental derail.

She looks at me. "What?"

"Ah, sorry. Ring… Message. Yes?"

Heh. Sure, Tang. Just because your prospective girlfriend says she might be interested in your hobby...

"The gynoid is waking up."

"What? She's down to two fifths of a brain, how can she be waking up?"

Maybe it's just running on the instinctual parts? It's actually surprising how much of our brain we don't need to survive.

"I don't know what to tell you, sport. Her eyes are focusing and her fingers are twitching in a controlled sort of way."

The nanotech-.

"Right, we're heading that way now, please inform Mia. Artemis." I lean in and briefly kiss her on the lips, an action that appears to take her by surprise. "I would be delighted to."

Though now he has to decide which edition to start with...

Okay, things could be getting a bit loud in a few minutes. Depending on what mood Indigo is about to wake up in: Genki-girl dimwit or Brainiac-controlled emissary... And here I am, just imagining what I'd make first if I had Tang's ability to make his own models and rules. Printed unit cards, certainly. It's such a pain handwriting them like I've been doing lately.

jasonh23761 · Jan 9, 2024

Z000 said:
so why did he stall out like a dead car like that

can he just not comprehend that she willing to be interest in his nerd hobby

Honestly, I was like that the first time a woman expressed interest in a nerd hobby of mine, even passingly.

Lord Ernest · Jan 9, 2024

jasonh23761 said:
Honestly, I was like that the first time a woman expressed interest in a nerd hobby of mine, even passingly.

Same. And it wasn't even deep geekdom at the time, just some not well-known manga when that stuff wasn't as mainstream as it is now. Turns out she was almost much of a nerd, I just didn't know it; still was super happy about it.

Mr Zoat · Jan 9, 2024

Ngamer11 said:
Missing threadmark.

Thank you, corrected.

Chojin Patriarch said:
On the other hand, the game did have a strong focus on Hero models at the time. Typically as much as 50% of an army's points, and they tended to dominate battles, often by chaining melee combats with their ~~cheering squads~~ bodyguards.

I'm still not convinced about this. Since you could only kill things you were touching in hand-to-hand and guns weren't much more effective in a character's hand, I suspect that a mass infantry army would have actually done fine.

And it's the sort of crazy extreme army that a ~~mad~~ clever player could come up with, back in the days before 'Balanced' armies.

Hah!

I do remember an old anecdotal incident with an Infiltrating kroot army versus a White Scar army that didn't even start on the table turn one. Almost as big a 'fuck you' as dropping dozens of unit-shattering artillery blasts on your opponent.

If you put yout whole army in reserves, don't be surprised when someonme clowns on you. No White Scars actually died.

...Honestly, as charming as the classic models are, some have improved with time. Though it really comes down to personal preference.

That isn't actually an official model. It's a conversion that featured in White Dwarf.

...Oh, my. And now I wonder what army she'd play. Eldar, perhaps? It seems the tricksy style she might prefer. Psychic misdirection and overwhelming firepower...

Mquz · Jan 9, 2024

I be know Zoat doesn't really keep up with comics, but I feel like he might like the current run of Shazam by Mark Waid & Dan Mora. They've put an emphasis on the gods powering him trying to take firmer control of Captain Marvel and making him show their imperfections by doing so. Solomon represents Pride and Hercules is Headstrong, Atlas represents Gullibility, while Achilles represents overconfidence, and it reminded me of Zoat's treatment of Zeus in this fic. It's not very tied into the rest of the Shazam lore like Dr Sivana or Black Adam other than the current Shazam family existing, but it's a cool take that refers to a lot of obscure stuff from the silver age comics. They bring back Garguax, the emperor of the moon, for example, an old Doom Patrol villain.

On a related note, there's seemingly been a lot of comics writers referencing nostalgic things from the late 80s these days too - Tom King's The Human Target is all one big reference to the JLI run from 1988 and Hellblazer / Sandman are getting new highly rated comics series over the past few years.

Ngamer11 · Jan 9, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
And that they should dream him having an orange torch on a stick that looked like a angry face.

I was rereading and found an error. That should say 'an'.

Mr Zoat · Jan 9, 2024

Mquz said:
I be know Zoat doesn't really keep up with comics, but I feel like he might like the current run of Shazam

And already you've failed.

by Mark Waid & Dan Mora. They've put an emphasis on the gods powering him trying to take firmer control of Captain Marvel and making him show their imperfections by doing so. Solomon represents Pride and Hercules is Headstrong, Atlas represents Gullibility, while Achilles represents overconfidence, and it reminded me of Zoat's treatment of Zeus in this fic. It's not very tied into the rest of the Shazam lore like Dr Sivana or Black Adam other than the current Shazam family existing, but it's a cool take that refers to a lot of obscure stuff from the silver age comics. They bring back Garguax, the emperor of the moon, for example, an old Doom Patrol villain.

The only relevant question: what is the name of the main character?

Ngamer11 said:
I was rereading and found an error. That should say 'an'.

Thank you, corrected.

Protosoul · Jan 9, 2024

I've got some bad news vis a vis Tyranids in the current edition and being able to kill literally anything ever...

They can score points and die slowly, but that's about it. Every gun and every meele weapon is a wet noodle.

Mr Zoat · Jan 9, 2024

Protosoul said:
I've got some bad news vis a vis Tyranids in the current edition and being able to kill literally anything ever...

They can score points and die slowly, but that's about it. Every gun and every meele weapon is a wet noodle.

Dude, it's been that way since 3rd. The start of 3rd. Carnifex armour saves went from 3+ on 2D6 in 2nd to 5++ in 3rd. They went from being the fastest army in the game in 2nd to the slowest EVER SINCE.

Tyranids being bad is not news.

Mr Zoat · Jan 10, 2024

11th October 2010
11:57 GMT -5

Mia meets up with us at an-

"I didn't think-. Wait, what were you doing?"

-intersection. She looks a little agitated.

"We were-." / "Nothing!"

I stop, frowning, and look at Artemis. And then Mia, who's… Smiling?

Doesn't matter. I fly down the corridor, opening the security door to my workshop. The gynoid is securely attached to the workbench by kinetic absorption devices that should resist the level of strength that it demonstrated when we fought the Brainiac probe. The ring is right, its fingers are moving in a more coordinated way than they were before I disconnected its brain module. A connection which.. has been restored. Mia's nanotech hasn't just gone to work, it's actually multiplied and spread across the gynoid's systems. It appears to have accepted the physical changes I made… Somewhat, but has changed other parts for reasons I'm not-

I hear Artemis gasp behind me.

-totally sure of.

"Why is she naked?"

I frown. "Because I-."

"DON't.. say 'because I didn't put any clothes on her'."

"Okay." Scan in detail. I want to know what's going on in her brain module.

You got it, sport. Sorry I didn't catch the 'naked' thing a second ago.

Why? It is naked.

"Mia?"

The nanobots appear to have focused on restoring the self-repair system and then migrated to her brain. It… They've actually modified the bits that were still there a lot. I suppose that if the far more primitive human-built robots can handle full human mind uploads then the super-advanced Coluan computer should be able to do the same.

"I thought he was still working on her. So he needed access to everything."

"Everything?"

I only fixed the parts where I could tell from the surrounding components what was supposed to be there; micro-fractures and things like that. I haven't even installed the rest of the brain yet.

"Ah, Paul?"

"Mia?"

Okay, so if we assume that the Brainiac probe was controlling it in the same way that it was controlling Mia, then having it active isn't a problem. Mia appears to believe that to be the case. I don't. Literally every version of Brainiac I know of is evil, with the exception of the one from the Legion of Super-Heroes, and if this thing was theirs then they would have already picked it up. More to the point, we can't prove it either way without activating it.

"Could you put something on her?"

"Yes?"

So what do I do about it? How do I make sure-?

Artemis puts her right hand on my shoulder and pulls me around.

"Put. Clothes. On her."

Oh. Why can't more people be like Artemis? That's a perfectly clear request.

She glances at my work. "I was thinking more, but okay. That's… Something."

"Artemis, I desire you far more than I could any gynoid. Emotional bonds with someone with actual free will are far more meaningful than building a sex robot. This gynoid is no rival for my feelings for you."

"That-. Wasn't-." She looks away for a moment. "Okay. Ah, thanks?"

"I could have built a sex robot at almost any point since I got-."

"Now you're ruining it."

"But I didn't, that's-."

She sticks out her right arm, pointing at the gynoid.

You see? Perfectly clear again. And Mia's just standing there looking gormless.

I point the ring at the gynoid's head and fabricate a new right hemisphere. Immediately the gynoid seizes up and then settles into its physical default position.

I investigated robotics, of course. The human body has innumerable flaws and weaknesses, and switching to a robotic one might have been a sensible choice. But the fact is that modern Earth robotics just aren't good enough. Certainly they have advantages in some areas, but between the numbness, the dysphoria, and the lack of the soup of chemicals that work together to moderate and motivate the human brain… The disadvantages are just too severe even if a consciousness transfer or brain transplant works. The Brain from the Brotherhood of Evil managed to make the brain-machine link work perfectly, and he was able to work through-.

Ah?

Yes, yes. I used Dr. Shanner's work on the gynoid. A near exact copy of the brain of the gynoid 'Sis'. Obviously that's not a solution I would have gone with if I had more time, but for a radioactive death machine Sis was pretty harmless.

Ah..?

Personality-wise. And that should give the nanobots something to work on. Progress?

The nanobots are extending their nanotubes into the new circuitry, connecting it to the more advanced but incomplete parts that were already present. Quick work on their part, and… Yes, they're flooding that part of its brain and trying to work out what it's for. They might just use the whole thing for raw materials, but… No. They are modifying it, but it looks like they just want to turn it into something that can integrate, rather than changing it completely. Well, that's basically what they do with Mia's body, so that makes sense.

Mia frowns. "I thought you said it would take longer."

"It would if I was acting with care. Rushing it because the gynoid is trying to reactivate before being fully repaired I can just shove something in and hope for the best."

"What?!"

"I never claimed to understand time-travelling Coluan technology. This is the best I can do. Scans show that it's working, but if you want a second opinion then you've got about… Twenty seconds to get it."

"I.. can't get anyone in twenty seconds."

Artemis sighs and nods. "He knows. That's why he said it like that."

She gets me.

The integration is finished, and I can see parts of the right hemisphere start to activate. Data is being exchanged, and parts of the body are being linked to the new neuroware.

And then its eyes blink and it starts trying to focus-.

"Hey." Mia interposes herself between it and the rest of the room. "Are you feeling… Better?"

A new pattern of activation as it searches for the right words. The section that I noticed as being damaged earlier is active, as are several other parts that Dr. Shanner designed for the same purpose. And altogether?

"Yes." The gynoid jerks in surprise as it hears its own voice. "Yes. I am… Fully functional."

Mia smiles. "And do you remember who you are?"

"I am…" Another patch activates, then she frowns. Facial emulators. "Eight… Eighth… Indigo. Yes. I am Indigo."

Ngamer11 · Jan 10, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"Why is she naked?"

I frown. "Because I-."

"DON't.. say 'because I didn't put any clothes on her'."

I was amused at the fact that the gynoid was naked. Though I kinda wish Kid Flash was there so that he could comment on it.

Mr Zoat said:
Okay, so if we assume that the Brainiac probe was controlling it in the same way that it was controlling Mia, then having it active isn't a problem. Mia appears to believe that to be the case. I don't. Literally every version of Brainiac I know if is evil, with the exception of the one from the Legion of Super-Heroes, and if this thing was theirs then they would have already picked it up. More to the point, we can't prove it either way without activating it.

That should say 'of'.

Mr Zoat said:
"Put. Clothes. On her."

Oh. Why can't more people be like Artemis? That's a perfectly clear request.

She glances at my work. "I was thinking more, but okay. That's… Something."

Did Tangseid give Indigo her canonical outfit?

Mr Zoat said:
"I am…" Another patch activates, then she frowns. Facial emulators. "Eight… Eighth… Indigo. Yes. I am Indigo."

Unless that's on purpose, that should say 'Eight'.

Darko · Jan 10, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
Literally every version of Brainiac I know if is evil, with the exception of the one from the Legion of Super-Heroes, and if this thing was theirs then they would have already picked it up

Unless some time travel bullshut is interfering.

Mr Zoat said:
"Artemis, I desire you far more than I could any gynoid. Emotional bonds with someone with actual free will are far more meaningful than building a sex robot

You're not going to hold onto that philosophy.

Mr Zoat said:
have build

"built"

Jimmy · Jan 10, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"Eight… Eighth… Indigo. Yes. I am Indigo."

Cool, either this is the ONE time Indigo has ever not been a spy sent by Braniac or Evil!Paul is gonna lose a lot of trust when he removes all of her limbs and uses her brain as an extra hard drive

Mquz · Jan 10, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
And already you've failed.

The only relevant question: what is the name of the main character?

Thank you, corrected.

Billy Batson / The Captain. They still have Mary / Miss Marvel show up so presumably they still want to avoid the character sharing a name with one of Marvel's most popular characters.

Vaermina · Jan 10, 2024

Jimmy said:
Cool, either this is the ONE time Indigo has ever not been a spy sent by Braniac or Evil!Paul is gonna lose a lot of trust when he removes all of her limbs and uses her brain as an extra hard drive

You realize Brainiac trumps Power Ring by a truely ridiculous degree right?

Even Larfleeze at full strength was barely able to corral a 2.0 version. And Indigo is a lot more advanced then that.

Chojin Patriarch · Jan 10, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
11th October 2010
11:57 GMT -5

Mia meets up with us at an-

"I didn't think-. Wait, what were you doing?"

-intersection. She looks a little agitated.

Well, why wouldn't she be? Something that may or may not be tied to her timeline of origin is slowly restoring itself from a near-scrapped condition, and she probably isn't sure whether that's a good thing or not.

"We were-." / "Nothing!"

I stop, frowning, and look at Artemis. And then Mia, who's… Smiling?

Probably assuming they were doing something naughty, when it was just innocent discussion of a future era of endless war and somewhat goofy-looking models. And Artemis is probably feeling embarrassed about being interested in 'nerd shit'.

Doesn't matter. I fly down the corridor, opening the security door to my workshop. The gynoid is securely attached to the workbench by kinetic absorption devices that should resist the level of strength that it demonstrated when we fought the Brainiac probe. The ring is right, its fingers are moving in a more coordinated way than they were before I disconnected its brain module. A connection which.. has been restored. Mia's nanotech hasn't just gone to work, it's actually multiplied and spread across the gynoid's systems. It appears to have accepted the physical changed I made… Somewhat, but has changed other parts for reasons I'm not-

Hmm... Interesting that they did so. Like they were designed to do so, even. Timey-Wimey foresight on the developers' part, I bet.

I hear Artemis gasp behind me.

-totally sure of.

"Why is she naked?"

...Ah, right. Americans.

I frown. "Because I-."

"DON't.. say 'because I didn't put any clothes on her'."

I mean... It's not impossible that she simply didn't have any parts to hide before Mia's nanites got working.

"Okay." Scan in detail. I want to know what's going on in her brain module.

You got it, sport. Sorry I didn't catch the 'naked' thing a second ago.

Heh. Even the Ring realises it goofed there.

Why? It is naked.

"Mia?"

And since he's in full scientific curiosity mode, he's not considering it nudity, merely exposed surface plating..

The nanobots appear to have focused on restoring the self-repair system and then migrated to her brain. It… They've actually modified the bits that were still there a lot. I suppose that if the far more primitive human-built robots can handle full human mind uploads then the super-advanced Coluan computer should be able to do the same.

"I thought he was still working on her. So he needed access too everything."

...It is odd how many 'AI's are just copies of human minds, in the DC universe. Humans are bullshit, I guess?

"Everything?"

I only fixed the parts where I could tell from the surrounding components what was supposed to be there; micro-fractures and things like that. I haven't even installed the rest of the brain yet.

Who's to say what part of its brain it actually used for thinking?

"Ah, Paul?"

"Mia?"

...Ah, right, the clothes. Or lack of, rather.

Okay, so if we assume that the Brainiac probe was controlling it in the same way that it was controlling Mia, then having it active isn't a problem. Mia appears to believe that to be the case. I don't. Literally every version of Brainiac I know if is evil, with the exception of the one from the Legion of Super-Heroes, and if this thing was theirs then they would have already picked it up. More to the point, we can't prove it either way without activating it.

Which is amusing, as Brainiac 5 is a teenage rebelling against Coluan detachment and trying to redeem the name of 'Brainiac', which was formerly an honoured title...

"Could you put something on her?"

"Yes?"

But you're busy, so why take the time?

So what do I do about it? How do I make sure-?

Artemis puts her right hand on my shoulder and pulls me around.

I suppose one good thing about having her around: She can haul him out of his 'tinker fugues'.

"Put. Clothes. On her."

Oh. Why can't more people be like Artemis? That's a perfectly clear request.

The classic halter top and micro-skirt, I assume.

She glances at my work. "I was thinking more, but okay. That's… Something."

"Artemis, I desire you far more than I could any gynoid. Emotional bonds with someone with actual free will are far more meaningful than building a sex robot. This gynoid is no rival for my feelings for you."

And Mia's like '...Oh-kaaaaay... Kind of cute, actually.'

"That-. Wasn't-." She looks away for a moment. "Okay. Ah, thanks?"

"I could have build a sex robot at almost any point since I got-."

Once again, sampling his boot leather, eh?

"Now you're ruining it."

"But I didn't, that's-."

Evidently the Evil Formula adds a measure of attention-span debuffs.

She sticks out her right arm, pointing at the gynoid.

You see? Perfectly clear again. And Mia's just standing there looking gormless.

I point the ring at the gynoids head and fabricate a new right hemisphere. Immediately the gynoid ceases up and then settles into its physical default positions.

Okay, now to see what happens now that it has something approaching a full brain.

I investigated robotics, of course. The human body has innumerable flaws and weaknesses, and switching to a robotic one might have been a sensible choice. But the fact is that modern Earth robotics just aren't good enough. Certainly they have advantages in some areas, but between the numbness, the dysphoria, and the lack of the soup of chemicals that work together to moderate and motivate the human brain… The disadvantages are just too severe even if a consciousness transfer or brain transplant works. The Brain from the Brotherhood of Evil managed to make the brain-machine link work perfectly, and he was able to work through-.

...I have to wonder if he had it perfected before his little accident that put him in his travel machine or not. And why wouldn't he make something a little more... Anthropomorphic?

Unless the process fused him permanently to that particular unit, and all the variations are just cosmetic.

Ah?

Yes, yes. I used Dr. Shanner's work on the gynoid. A near exact copy of the brain of the gynoid 'Sis'. Obviously that's not a solution I would have gone with if I had more time, but for a radioactive death machine Sis was pretty harmless.

...Which will probably explain any of her 'old-fashioned' personality quirks present in canon. Assuming they transfer over.

Ah..?

Personality-wise. And that should give the nanobots something to work on. Progress?

Of course, it's all down to whether they recognise it as suitable processing systems.

The nanobots are extending their nanotubes into the new circuitry, connecting it to the more advanced but incomplete parts that were already present. Quick work on their part, and… Yes, they're flooding that part of its brain and trying to work out what it's for. They might just use the whole thing for raw materials, but… No. They are modifying it, but it looks like they just want to turn it into something that can integrate, rather than changing it completely. Well, that's basically what they do with Mia's body, so that makes sense.

Ah, good, she won't be completely brainless, then. And quite likely on par with a half-Kryptonian in terms of physical ability.

Mia frowns. "I thought you said it would take longer."

"It would if I was acting with care. Rushing it because the gynoid is trying to reactivate before being fully repaired I can just shove something in and hope for the best."

Unless you were fine with it literally having an empty skull for a while?

"What?!"

"I never claimed to understand time-travelling Coluan technology. This is the best I can do. Scans show that it's working, but if you want a second opinion then you've got about… Twenty seconds to get it."

Even Doc Magnus might struggle with that kind of time-frame.

"I.. can't get anyone in twenty seconds."

Artemis sighs and nods. "He knows. That's why he said it like that."

Wow, hardly two dates and they're already in tune. That'd be sweet... If we didn't already know where this was headed.

She gets me.

The integration is finished, and I can see parts of the right hemisphere start to activate. Data is being exchanged, and parts of the body are being linked to the new neuroware.

So, time to see what kind of person this Indigo is.

And then its eyes blink and it starts trying to focus-.

"Hey." Mia interposes herself between it and the rest of the room. "Are you feeling… Better?"

Careful, kiddo. Never know what might come out of those eyes. Heat vision... Punch rays... Giant pink hearts... Anything.

A new pattern of activation as it searches for the right words. The section that I noticed as being damaged earlier is active, as are several other parts that Dr. Shanner designed for the same purpose. And altogether?

"Yes." The gynoid jerks in surprise as it hears its own voice. "Yes. I am… Fully functional."

Heh. Parts of her own mind not expecting the new her, eh?

Mia smiles. "And do you remember who you are?"

"I am…" Another patch activates, then she frowns. Facial emulators. "Eight… Eighth… Indigo. Yes. I am Indigo."

Well, off to a good start.

And so the Team gains a new member, eh? Or whatever group Tang and Artemis are part of. I assume a version of the Outsiders or a Titans off-shoot. I don't remember if it was ever mentioned in his segments. Anyway, it remains to be seen just what this Indigo will be like, or if she'll revert to her original programming someday. Which might end up being traumatic for Mia, if nothing else.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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