Xenforo - Do you guys want it here?

[Vanathor]

So earlier I was talking to elegee earlier about the possiblity of doing a 'christmas gift' to QQ that I would be willing to at least fund in part to in whole, depending on how things go. What I want to know is if you guys would like the possibility of upgrading the SMF board we have now on QQ to Xenforo - the forum software that is commonly used on other communities that most of us are apart of such as SB and SV.

The reason I am asking about support, is this would be a 140 dollar purchase on my part and not exactly cheap by any means. Further if we wanted Elastic Search it would cost us an additional 50 USD. So 190 dollars total.

I am good for about half of that or about 100 dollars all in all. So anywhere from forty to ninety dollars short for the first license depending on whether or not we want Elastic Search - and my instincts say we probably do.

Finally it would have an annual cost of 40 dollars (or fifty due to a 10 dollar additional fee for elastic search) for license renewal which would have to be paid every year. While I am probably good for contributing that to at least a small degree (would not mind pitching in ten dollars a year or something for this end) I could not cover that expense every year myself, and elegee has informed me he can't either due to being mad broke.

So.

Would this be something you guys would be:

A. Interested in.
and
B. Be willing to chip in for to make happen?

 

[ChandraMagic]

I would wholeheartedly support it. I also would not be able to fund it (being mad broke myself), so my vote for is more like a half a vote. ???

 

[alethiophile]

Upgrading to xenforo would be rather nice, but not enormously significant. I would merely request that there be at least one theme which is similar in look to QQ's current light-colored theme, since I'd be unable to conceive of it being QQ otherwise.

Regarding cost, I could probably help cover the remaining start-up fee (or, hell, just cover the remainder myself), but I couldn't commit to paying in perpetuity. Actually having money at year-end is a hope, but not a guarantee.

 

[Biigoh]

...

But wouldn't that mean we would be seen as imitators of SB and SV as all 3 forums use Xenforo? ^^;

Not objecting... but if we do do this, we would need to make sure to get GOOD forum interface...

 

[Vanathor]

...

But wouldn't that mean we would be seen as imitators of SB and SV as all 3 forums use Xenforo? ^^;

Not objecting... but if we do do this, we would need to make sure to get GOOD forum interface...

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Can you tell me what you mean by this?

 

[Biigoh]

Can you tell me what you mean by this?

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I speak of the SB and SV themes... there is a reason that I use the DEFAULT theme on those 2 forums...

Hence, if we do switch to Xenforo, and I'm willing to throw money at this... we would need GOOD themes for the forum.

 

[Vanathor]

I speak of the SB and SV themes... there is a reason that I use the DEFAULT theme on those 2 forums...

Hence, if we do switch to Xenforo, and I'm willing to throw money at this... we would need GOOD themes for the forum.

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I don't see why that wouldn't be doable. I mean, there are plenty of free ones out there for use. And designing a custom one shouldn't be hard either. I've looked at it, and the Xenforo theme creator is simple enough to use.

 

[Biigoh]

I don't see why that wouldn't be doable. I mean, there are plenty of free ones out there for use. And designing a custom one shouldn't be hard either. I've looked at it, and the Xenforo theme creator is simple enough to use.

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In that case, count me in as interested and willing to put aside some money for this...

So $190 for the 1st year, and then after that $50 on a yearly basis.

So... if people are willing to throw in a dollar or two every month, we can easily cover the yearly fee.

 

[Vanathor]

So... if people are willing to throw in a dollar or two every month, we can easily cover the yearly fee.

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Well, I hate to say it like this, but honestly come the end of the year next year for the reoccuring fee, and worst case scenario I pick up an extra shift during the holidays and I can clear the fifty bucks in an afternoon if it comes down to it. But I would prefer not to have to carry that burden myself.

 

[Biigoh]

What I'm saying is we start up a paypal account for this... and every month, if people have the spare cash to drop a few dollars into it... we would be able to handle the costs.

Heck, I could probably do some over time on my end and clear the fifty myself... so the annual fee wouldn't be an issue.

My only main concern is the server fees and the domain name that elgee has been footing.

 

[Vanathor]

What I'm saying is we start up a paypal account for this... and every month, if people have the spare cash to drop a few dollars into it... we would be able to handle the costs.

Heck, I could probably do some over time on my end and clear the fifty myself... so the annual fee wouldn't be an issue.

My only main concern is the server fees and the domain name that elgee has been footing.

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Well here is the initial response I got from the elegee when I first talked to him.

I've looked into it, and the reason I decided against it myself was due to the fact that the license does not entitle you to life-time upgrades or support, but only for 12 months. 140 bucks then $40 more a year doesn't seem worth it, imo. Plus the confusion about the $50 installation fee. Wut? Is it that difficult that it needs custom installation?

Plus, there's no straight database converter for SMF to Xenforo. You have to do SMF > phpBB > Xenforo, and from what I've read, it's a buggy process that doesn't always work right, the primary side-effect being the passwords being mangled in the double transfer. And since I'm not a coder, it might be rather difficult for me if some sort of bug or something pops up that I can't find a way to fix.

However, I'm not going to tell you no. The rolling $40 would have to come from the community(I'm so broke, you have no idea), so I'd suggest starting a Suggestion Box topic and seeing what the community has to say.

Finally, I would need to be the one to buy the license, if it did happen, instead of using a license bought from someone else. This is to avoid any kind of ownership drama that might happen at some point down the line. I have a PayPal account setup for QQ, so it's no big deal to do a transfer of funds if you have one too.

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So he already has a paypal for the site set up, so that is good. Though he would need to post it for us to be able to send in the funds, at the very least.

As for the issue there, apparently there is an importer for SMF -> Xenforo importer that is up to date as of this mo, the only thing is its in beta right now, but that would be something to test first on a test import before dealing with it for realsies that it could work. And the beta state as noted by the Xenforo devs was mostly a 'permenant' one simply because its the pet project one of the staff that works there.

 

[Biigoh]

@_@

Wait... they don't have database conversion service?

I would have thought that this would be something that they'd make sure was working just to get people to shift over,

 

[overmind]

Since the process would be long, and I think that QQ works just fine as it is, then I don't think it is necessary, and at least, in my opinion, I don't want it either.

 

[Vanathor]

@_@

Wait... they don't have database conversion service?

I would have thought that this would be something that they'd make sure was working just to get people to shift over,

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They do have one. But its 'in beta' even though supposedly it works well enough now, and the last update for it was on November the 20th so its not exactly being set out to linger.

Since the process would be long, and I think that QQ works just fine as it is, then I don't think it is necessary, and at least, in my opinion, I don't want it either.

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Where did you get the process being long from? I don't believe anyone in the thread or outside of it have even talked about possible downtimes yet.

EDIT:

So according to the webhost that LG uses here they handle xenforo installation for free, so they should be able to do an import easy enough, given the import software (while in beta) is bundled with the licence so its not like they shouldn't be able to do it painlessly and for free.

 

[Biigoh]

In that case, the Bii is willing to go for this

 

[Smuthunter]

The only complaint I have with the current site is that the default color scheme is impossible to read on my phone and the lighter one makes pinks and other bright-colored text impossible to read without highlighting them.

 

[Vanathor]

The only complaint I have with the current site is that the default color scheme is impossible to read on my phone and the lighter one makes pinks and other bright-colored text impossible to read without highlighting them.

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My main complaint is how 'simple' SMF is (ha!) and the general capability of the actual WSYIWYG reader. I want something better, and even the basic XF one is a hundred times nicer.

 

[StriderAnarchy99]

If you set up a paypal account or something, I would be willing to cover the renewal fee. While I can't cover the additional $90 fee in the time remaining in the year (Christmas is coming after all), I can put $20 towards the initial fee right now. If you delay until after new year I could cover the rest of it. As for the renewal fee, I can cover that by myself without help so long as I can pay you in installments or something. $50 isn't a huge burden to me. I'm not rich or anything, but setting aside ten bucks every paycheck won't put me in the poorhouse.

I love this site just as much as SB and SV, but I admit that I would prefer a Xenforo interface to the one currently available.

Edit: Wow, completely missed the part where it said a paypal had already been setup. Great going eyeballs! Still, given the post below me, I'll wait before throwing my money at elgee.

 

[tehelgee]

My only main concern is the server fees and the domain name that elgee has been footing.

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I have no trouble covering that, since Squirrelly also helps with it every other month, so it's all good. It might become an issue at some point in the future if the site gets popular enough to require an upgrade, but right now, we're good on monthly fees.

So he already has a paypal for the site set up, so that is good. Though he would need to post it for us to be able to send in the funds, at the very least.

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donations@questionablequesting.com is the email for the account.

Do not donate any funds to the account until it's been decided on what will be done.

 

[Vanathor]

Do not donate any funds to the account until it's been decided on what will be done.

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What needs to happen from your end to get the okay to move funds into place?

 

[noahgab1133]

i am interested but don't have any means to contribute

am beyond broke and gone straight into debt ie not sure if I will make decembers rent XD

stupid tuition fees...

 

[tehelgee]

What needs to happen from your end to get the okay to move funds into place?

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Well, once people have agreed on what will be bought and the money is ready(there is a small fee for sending money on Paypal, be aware), what I will do is create a subdomain and create a copy of the forum. I will have a few people test their logins and such on the subdomain, then I will open the donations.

Once the money has arrived, I will go ahead and buy the license + whatever extras have been agreed on. At that point, I will install(or have the webhost install) Xenforo on the test subdomain. I will use the converter to convert the test forum over to Xenforo and see how it works out. If it works correctly(including testing), I will then shut off the forum, do a complete back-up(including one or more on my own machine), then I will install Xenforo on the main domain and convert the actual forum.

Hopefully, this process will have few or no bugs, but this is IT, so I know better than that. I just hope it won't take too long to squash the bugs and get the forum up and running on XF after that.

 

[alethiophile]

Arvixe advertises Xenforo hosting with their staff taking care of installation issues. Presumably the first steps will involve contacting them and asking about their procedures for a case like this.

The latest XF apparently contains an SMF importer, so hopefully that part will be painless enough.

 

[Vanathor]

Well, once people have agreed on what will be bought and the money is ready(there is a small fee for sending money on Paypal, be aware), what I will do is create a subdomain and create a copy of the forum. I will have a few people test their logins and such on the subdomain, then I will open the donations.

Once the money has arrived, I will go ahead and buy the license + whatever extras have been agreed on. At that point, I will install(or have the webhost install) Xenforo on the test subdomain. I will use the converter to convert the test forum over to Xenforo and see how it works out. If it works correctly(including testing), I will then shut off the forum, do a complete back-up(including one or more on my own machine), then I will install Xenforo on the main domain and convert the actual forum.

Hopefully, this process will have few or no bugs, but this is IT, so I know better than that. I just hope it won't take too long to squash the bugs and get the forum up and running on XF after that.

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Well, broadly speaking, we really only have a single disenting voice thus far from overmind with his primary issue being downtime but no real issues with Xenforo itself.

How long would you give it to form a concensus before you would consider a 'course of action' settled?

 

[Peanuckle]

Is there a particular need for this? I haven't noticed any real problems with what we have right now.

 

[tehelgee]

Arvixe advertises Xenforo hosting with their staff taking care of installation issues. Presumably the first steps will involve contacting them and asking about their procedures for a case like this.

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I remember Wizard and I were looking into that at first. I guess I forgot about it after we decided not to go for Xenforo. I'll get up with them tomorrow, and see what will need to be done to get it installed.

The latest XF apparently contains an SMF importer, so hopefully that part will be painless enough.

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I don't doubt there will be some bugs that need to be squished. Hopefully, the passwords will survive.

How long would you give it to form a concensus before you would consider a 'course of action' settled?

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At least a few days or a week to let more people see it and express their opinions. It's not something we want to rush.

 

[DuskAtDawn]

I rather like what we've currently got, but if we do decide to shift to XF, I'll throw thirty bucks at you once I've got the funds, sometime around the tenth. Can't promise a recurring payment, though.

 

[Vanathor]

Is there a particular need for this? I haven't noticed any real problems with what we have right now.

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Off the top of my head?

• I hate the PM system here. It's clunky and feels old, and I like the conversation system better on XF. It feels more dynamic and responsive.
• Even the 'basic' WYSIWYG editor (the posting interface) is a hundred times superior on XF, and it does not screw up BB code as badly.
• With an XF move it will make crossposting posts with SB and SV easier due to using the same base engine.
• Alerts on here would be beautiful and I want them. I don't like not being able to keep track of all the threads I am in at once, and this would help.
• Performance-wise XF is nicer then SMF due to being a proprietary constantly developed piece of software which is constantly getting refined versus what we have now doe to SMF being open source freeware.
• I think XF handles creative writing better over all, due to the ease of the posting-editor. I touched on this before with regards to the WYSIWYG, but it bares repeating.

And that is just what I can think of now.

 

[Peanuckle]

I agree with most of those points, though I don't think SB and SV much care for direct links here.

How about we have a thread poll, or a vote where we can have a clear tally? And along with votes, pledges from people willing to foot the bill?

I do have some concerns about shifting to a paid system:

First, the people who pay may feel entitled to special treatment. Avatars or custom designs are fun, but what if they want privileges? Will they hold the forum ransom for their likes?

What if the money dries up? Would the forum shut down entirely? Is there going to be an archive made of all this?

QQ is a pretty ranchy place. Would the guys who provide the XF license take offense to any of the material here and refuse to let it be hosted on their software?

 

[Vanathor]

I agree with most of those points, though I don't think SB and SV much care for direct links here.

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Of course they don't. QQ is the dirty little secret of the BROB community, but its hardly there business if we upgrade our site's software.

How about we have a thread poll, or a vote where we can have a clear tally? And along with votes, pledges from people willing to foot the bill?

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Probably a good idea, and I think the elegee would be the best one to make the 'official proposition topic'. This one right here is just shooting the breeze and discussing the idea.

I do have some concerns about shifting to a paid system:

First, the people who pay may feel entitled to special treatment. Avatars or custom designs are fun, but what if they want privileges? Will they hold the forum ransom for their likes?

What if the money dries up? Would the forum shut down entirely? Is there going to be an archive made of all this?

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Of course not. Nothing 'special' I would imagine aside from possibly like what SB has such as more people can be added to a conversation, larger avatar sizes (maybe), and a banner of some sort like 'Board Supporter'. I would leave the details up to the elegee.

If the money dries up, the board will continue to exist, it just won't be able to receive further upgrades to the software or support tickets. We don't lose access to the board just because a subscription were to hypothetically lapse.

QQ is a pretty ranchy place. Would the guys who provide the XF license take offense to any of the material here and refuse to let it be hosted on their software?

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Checked this out already, actually.

https://xenforo.com/license-agreement/

The above is there licensing agreement with XF. There are no stated 'content clauses' or the like or anything they would have any right or reason to refuse service. So we are good on that front.