Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Sveta08]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

And this dependent attitude persists on the other side too. We just saw it in our direct reports, who responded to being told a pony needed to run Equestria by wildly panicking and hoping desperately that an alicorn will show up and solve all their problems.

It's actually really important to getting a stable Celestia that someone tries to change things.

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Huh, don't think I've spoken much with you a'fore! Least not direct. But, regardless...

Agreed in part, but I'm not certain on the conclusion. I hope you are correct and I can see a path where you are, but I am not yet confident enough in that path to say it is true.
Celestia does not believe Ponykind capable or ruling itself after what she's seen. Her "Mercy" is to offer an attempt at it.
See the Solar Court for... this entire line of thought in very explicit detail.
I don't think it is a wise decision to have Velvet try and exert control and grasp at this time, but I do think it is the... decision that would match everything that has been made Velvet. Never one to rest on laurels.
She let Evil into the world thinking she could perform more good after all. It is....

Well, I have thoughts but nothing well formed. Not enough to put to words yet.

I will vote later myself. For now, just... yeah.

 

[Portec]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

I leave voting on the expedition alone because I did not keep up with the development of the turn plan.
I am of the beliefe that with the investment of actions and other traits the chance of a good outcome is better than a bad one.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

 

[Wise Wolf]

As her mother, we have the right to try to give her a bit of help in this.

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That, and as the pony who chose to deprive Celestia and Equestria of their Moon Princess for a season, and in so doing partially precipitated this crisis, we arguably have the duty to try.

 

[Solace2117]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.
[X] Plan: All and One

Sending three names on a short expedition seems excessive. Sending just Mareinette with him is fine.
I'm down to risk trying to change things.

 

[Wise Wolf]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

[X] Plan: All and Two
-[X] (YUXTABEI) Artifacts and curios: Everything
-[X] (SMILES) Artifacts and curios: None
-[X] (SMILES) Accompanying team: Mareinette and Selene

I slightly prefer the Selene addition, but this is really low stakes.

 

[spiderhellian]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

[X] Plan: All and Two
-[X] (YUXTABEI) Artifacts and curios: Everything
-[X] (SMILES) Artifacts and curios: None
-[X] (SMILES) Accompanying team: Mareinette and Selene

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

[X] Plan: All and Two

We just saw Smiles just kill a pony over a misinterpretation of meaning, so maybe having Luna on hand to moderate such actions is warranted.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

It is kind of funny how that was, indeed, just glossed over. And i wonder how many people went "(slaps knee) ahah, thats juuuust Smiles!" and how many are just beyond caring for such a casual death.

Velvet is beyond caring, of course. And im neither claiming anyone here is a monster nor saying this should have caused an uproar.

But i do enjoy this... this little marker, of how far Velvet has come.

 

[ses]

It is kind of funny how that was, indeed, just glossed over. And i wonder how many people went "(slaps knee) ahah, thats juuuust Smiles!" and how many are just beyond caring for such a casual death.

Velvet is beyond caring, of course. And im neither claiming anyone here is a monster nor saying this should have caused an uproar.

But i do enjoy this... this little marker, of how far Velvet has come.

Click to shrink...

I only feel slightly upstaged that reverse crime of the sky was shot down in large part because of fears about "muh canterlot nobles! this will cause consequences!" only for Smiles to casually violate Rule 8 anyway.

@OurLadyOfWires Sorry for doing a repeated ping but it's been a while and I was hoping we could get an answer on that question I had about the SHartifact.

@OurLadyOfWires What about our Secret Histories 3 artifact? Will it be providing its Research Bonus to Jade's roll and/or the Bureau Autopsy roll? And would those happen without being exclusive with bringing it on the expedition? Because if we have to choose I might want to assign the Shartifact to one of our research attempts this turn, idk.

(Also do we get to bring the Moth 3 artifact to the expedition if Jade succeeds her research?)

Click to shrink...

 

[spiderhellian]

Yeah, I think Smiles and Mareinette is totally enough to handle the expedition, but 15-25 bits just to keep things a little cleaner with Luna holding the leash does not feel expensive.

 

[Limabot]

[X] (THRONE) You will be careful.

 

[JenMGold]

I've been lurking here for a while, before I made an account here, though not long enough that I've felt like I should make comments (much less vote) and give my two bits from the peanut gallery about (much less possibly influence the direction of) a quest people have poured years into (I first ran into this only about half a year ago, after all). But given the current topics of discussion, and that someone else has recently mentioned being new here and seemed to get a positive reception, I figured I might as well throw this out.

YouTube recently recommended a song from a Christian metal band to me - I presume because of my fondness for lengthy symphonic metal and rock opera pieces, because the band's usual (painfully bluntly religious, "Our particular brand of Evangelical Protestantism is the only right way!" style) stuff certainly isn't in my wheelhouse. But up until the very end of the song, where it pretty much throws out all subtlety and spells out that the song isn't about introspection or self-realization or anything like that and is just "You're a terrible person! Only Jesus can save you! Repent, sinner!" it was surprisingly decent.

And imo, it seemed surprisingly appropriate to this. It feels like something that could be a [LANTERN] expedition. And if Velvet had something like the events of the song's climax shoved in her face at... oh, probably somewhere around Turn 16, give or take a turn or two... things might have turned out better. She might have turned out better.

(Obviously ignoring the fact that this is a forum game and by its nature tends to push toward victory-oriented "hard choices" decision-making instead of prioritizing morals over pursuing a win condition. And the fact that it's also based on Cultist Simulator, so morality was out the window from word "Go.")

Spoiler: Lengthy lyrics from the climax

"Behold thyself!" a voice rings out
In paralyzing thunder
It echoes all throughout the hall
And sends me to my knees
When the voice calls me by name
I'm overcome with fear and wonder
As I slowly start to rise
And face the great mirror in front of me

When I open my eyes, I have to close them again
But still the image is burned in my mind
A face with eyes as black as night
A terrifying sight
The flesh rotting away
In sickness and decay
It's mangled by disease
I'm unable to breathe
Tell me what manner of creature this could be
'Cause it's not me

I run away as fast as my feet will carry me
Back to the door leading out into the night
Even the storm that almost claimed my life was better than this
And so I throw open the door and see a man (The figure of a man)
The stranger from the storm returns again (To save me once again?)
I see understanding in his eyes (He's seen this all before)
Maybe he can tell me what I saw behind that door

"Tell me what I saw in the mirror
Before I ran away
Tell me what I saw in the mirror
That face of sickness and decay
Tell me what I saw in the mirror
That left me terrorized
Who was that I saw in the mirror
With the lifeless, blackened eyes?
Was it a demon from the fiery waves?
Was it the undead from beyond the grave?
Oh the face that I beheld in the mirror left me paralyzed
Won't you tell me what I saw in the mirror on this night?"

"The light from the mirror you saw from afar
The Mirror of Souls shows all men as they are
You entered the hall and you asked for the truth
The man that you saw in the mirror was you"

"No! Don't show me the truth
'Cause I don't want to believe
What the Mirror of Souls has revealed unto me
And the face I saw reflected cannot be me
Dying and lost in the arms of decay
I do not recognize the face I've seen today
And if you say that's my face I must disagree"

"The mirrors you saw in the hall long ago
Were mirrors of lies, not reflecting the soul
When you look unto others to see what they see
You see an illusion, deception, false reality"

(And yes, those lyrics are just from the climax - the song's 22 minutes long.)

 

[spiderhellian]

What is the song? Those lyrics go hard and I'd love to check it out!

though not long enough that I've felt like I should make comments (much less vote) and give my two bits from the peanut gallery about (much less possibly influence the direction of) a quest people have poured years into (I first ran into this only about half a year ago, after all).

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For what it's worth, as someone who has been here for a while (though not as long as some) and yaps quite a bit (though not as much as others) — I really want to push back on this!

Your perspective and vote is no less relevant, valued, or valid as anyone else's. If you've read the story and enjoyed it, you too have a stake in how it continues to unfold, and should use your capacity to influence it as you see fit.

It's one of the great things about quests. Whatever your level of interest, you only have one vote. You can yap and try to convince others — indeed you should — but everything can swing in new directions with each new vote.

Plus it's fun And always nice to hear new perspectives!

 

[JenMGold]

What is the song? Those lyrics go hard and I'd love to check it out!

Click to shrink...

Mirror of Souls, by Theocracy. Yeah, it's pretty good (imo)... up until the last three minutes where they slap you with the religious message.

For what it's worth, as someone who has been here for a while (though not as long as some) and yaps quite a bit (though not as much as others) — I really want to push back on this!

Your perspective and vote is no less relevant, valued, or valid as anyone else's. If you've read the story and enjoyed it, you too have a stake in how it continues to unfold, and should use your capacity to influence it as you see fit.

It's one of the great things about quests. Whatever your level of interest, you only have one vote. You can yap and try to convince others — indeed you should — but everything can swing in new directions with each new vote.

Plus it's fun And always nice to hear new perspectives!

Click to shrink...

Thanks. I still feel awkward about it, but affirmation and friendly words always feel nice

 

[Greymere]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

[X] Plan: All and Two

We just saw Smiles just kill a pony over a misinterpretation of meaning, so maybe having Luna on hand to moderate such actions is warranted.

Click to shrink...

You know what, good point.

[X] (THRONE) You will be careful.
[X] Plan: All and Two

 

[DelightedOne]

It is kind of funny how that was, indeed, just glossed over. And i wonder how many people went "(slaps knee) ahah, thats juuuust Smiles!" and how many are just beyond caring for such a casual death.

Velvet is beyond caring, of course. And im neither claiming anyone here is a monster nor saying this should have caused an uproar.

But i do enjoy this... this little marker, of how far Velvet has come.

Click to shrink...

Still better than the sacrifice DoA brought us. I stand with Smiles!

Besides, change tends to be messy and with how nobles are... he probably wasn't that great a pony.

 

[Wise Wolf]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

[X] Plan: All and Two

We just saw Smiles just kill a pony over a misinterpretation of meaning, so maybe having Luna on hand to moderate such actions is warranted.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. Smiles needs an adult in the room.

Actually, Smiles is the adult for Mareienette, and Selene is the adult for Smiles. And poor Selene is forced to be the straight man to both of their hijinks.

 

[Sveta08]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.
[X] Plan: All and Two

THere are too many plates spinning. Without a millennium of practice at this and an undercurrent of a separate outer power behind it, things will be missed.

I agree that Velvet will chew on Smiles ear later. I am frustrated that I hadn't seen this coming. But still.
If we had time, better plans might be made. Or maybe we would fall into the same bad habits but slower. I don't know.

 

[Wise Wolf]

Still better than the sacrifice DoA brought us. I stand with Smiles!

Besides, change tends to be messy and with how nobles are... he probably wasn't that great a pony.

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I'm with Axe on the efforts to find 'acceptable targets' to murder for power. Does it matter?

On top of that, Axe recently reported to you that she acquired a prisoner. But when you asked her about the pony she, well, kidnapped, she looked you straight in the eye and asked "does it matter?"

Click to shrink...

We brought a chaotic killer into the Wake. A servant of the Lionsmith, who creates horrific monsters and sets them loose near innocent ponies. And now we're directing our entire faction to empower this force in the Wake with a great deal of their time and resources, just to make the killer like us.

"We didn't foresee that this *particular* instruction would lead to an innocent pony dying."
Does it matter?

"This particular murder victim was a noble, so it wasn't as bad."
Does it matter?

"But he promised to keep the fires to a minimum."
... LOL


Baldomare previously told us that all of the Names are quite willing to murder foals. They've all done worse. But at least Axe isn't going to let anyone sugarcoat murder-for-power as anything less than the moral atrocity that it is.

 

[Portec]

It is kind of funny how that was, indeed, just glossed over. And i wonder how many people went "(slaps knee) ahah, thats juuuust Smiles!" and how many are just beyond caring for such a casual death.

Velvet is beyond caring, of course. And im neither claiming anyone here is a monster nor saying this should have caused an uproar.

But i do enjoy this... this little marker, of how far Velvet has come.

Click to shrink...

We know that the Names are all a bit beyond the norms even if they know of them.
I took it as "Gave a Name an open ended requests and got what I wanted but not how I imagined it. Better luck next time."

 

[excedere]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

[X] Plan: All and Two

SPIN! THOSE! PLATES!

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

It is kind of funny how that was, indeed, just glossed over. And i wonder how many people went "(slaps knee) ahah, thats juuuust Smiles!" and how many are just beyond caring for such a casual death.

Velvet is beyond caring, of course. And im neither claiming anyone here is a monster nor saying this should have caused an uproar.

But i do enjoy this... this little marker, of how far Velvet has come.

Click to shrink...

Marker of how far she's fallen, more like.

I'm with Axe on the efforts to find 'acceptable targets' to murder for power. Does it matter?


We brought a chaotic killer into the Wake. A servant of the Lionsmith, who creates horrific monsters and sets them loose near innocent ponies. And now we're directing our entire faction to empower this force in the Wake with a great deal of their time and resources, just to make the killer like us.

"We didn't foresee that this *particular* instruction would lead to an innocent pony dying."
Does it matter?

"This particular murder victim was a noble, so it wasn't as bad."
Does it matter?

"But he promised to keep the fires to a minimum."
... LOL


Baldomare previously told us that all of the Names are quite willing to murder foals. They've all done worse. But at least Axe isn't going to let anyone sugarcoat murder-for-power as anything less than the moral atrocity that it is.

Click to shrink...

Yes it matters. Eating something (or in this case, someone) that destroys people at least keeps the number of things destroying people the same. A fire lit carefully under specific parameters will cause far less damage than an uncontrolled wildfire. To say "it doesn't matter" is to excuse sloppiness, inefficiency, and surrendering better outcomes for mere convenience.

 

[Wise Wolf]

Yes it matters. Eating something (or in this case, someone) that destroys people at least keeps the number of things destroying people the same. A fire lit carefully under specific parameters will cause far less damage than an uncontrolled wildfire. To say "it doesn't matter" is to excuse sloppiness, inefficiency, and surrendering better outcomes for mere convenience.

Click to shrink...

I appreciate the utilitarian logic of this, but I see something a little different. How many people will die because of our decisions? Take one that started this turn: ordering a bunch of people to indoctrinate ponies with Smiles. What's the likely death toll? Hundreds? Thousands? Sure, he's probably not going to burn an entire city... so we're likely not looking at 100,000+ killed by our investment. But there will be quite a few.

And I see no real concern for this in the thread, or in Velvet. We/Velvet spend quite a bit of time worrying about minimizing the utilitarian loss of the ponies who die onscreen/by our hoof, and almost none for the far greater dead by our metaphorical hoof.

This utilitarian focus on the least part of our utilitarian impact is a mask, and a mask that Axe is right to disdain.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I appreciate the utilitarian logic of this, but I see something a little different. How many people will die because of our decisions? Take one that started this turn: ordering a bunch of people to indoctrinate ponies with Smiles. What's the likely death toll? Hundreds? Thousands? Sure, he's probably not going to burn an entire city... so we're likely not looking at 100,000+ killed by our investment. But there will be quite a few.

And I see no real concern for this in the thread, or in Velvet. We/Velvet spend quite a bit of time worrying about minimizing the utilitarian loss of the ponies who die onscreen/by our hoof, and almost none for the far greater dead by our metaphorical hoof.

This utilitarian focus on the least part of our utilitarian impact is a mask, and a mask that Axe is right to disdain.

Click to shrink...

That depends entirely on the method of indoctrination, which in turn depends on who is helping Smiles, which is whoever OurLadyofWires decides is best since it was not specified in the winning plan. The Helping Smiles Action is rather unique in that the Name freely admits they have no idea what they are doing and would love to have someone on hoof to guide them. Additionally, a Name on good terms with their summoner can rather casually tailor their actions to be more in line with their summoner's overall mindset, which is determined by the examples set by the Summoner. Which means that yes, the small but in-your-face actions and behaviors will color the actions and behaviors of your more amicable summons. Mareinette is the best example of this, weirdly enough, as she has continuously resisted the urge to eat children despite having many, many opportunities to do so without being caught. Now there are Names who this isn't really true for, like Biedde, who did whatever he could get away with at all times due to the nature of his Obligations. Smiles is not like that, Smiles, like Mareinette, actively wants Velvet's friendship, and so establishing acceptable and unacceptable behaviors can be effective in sculpting his behavior, and thus his collateral.

Countless small actions shape behavior, shape the thinking behind bigger actions; they are not meaningless - they are how people organically change.

 

[JenMGold]

Well, if I am gonna be contributing to the peanut gallery here...

I'm in Wise Wolf's camp on this one. Velvet has concluded that it is acceptable to murder people to obtain power. Who the target is doesn't matter. It's still murder. Even if the person grabbed was a pedophile, there certainly wouldn't have been any legal basis for the extrajudicial imprisonment and execution. Heck, if she was going out every night hunting for adulterers to kill because some archaic holy book that's undergone a four thousand year game of telephone told her that they deserve to die, at least there would be some consistent principle to the thing. But there is no principle to it, no philosophy or real moral code driving it. She's not on some crusade against criminals who slip through the cracks in the justice system, she's just decided that she'll benefit from killing someone and wanted to find some offense she can use to plaster a facade of justification over the fact that she's a murderer. She's not killing someone because they're a bad person who deserves death. She's killing someone for her own personal gain, and killing someone who's done bad things would make it easier for her. But that wouldn't make it right. The victim's own misdeeds aren't a justification, it's simply smothering the conscience with a pillow instead of strangling it with your bare hands because it feels less visceral and unpleasant for the killer. But the outcome and the morality of the deed aren't meaningfully different.

Or to mangle together some of them thar memes those kids these days use: "Cool story, still murder."

And as OurLadyOfWires mentioned, Velvet isn't even concerned about that small pretense at morality anymore.

Of course, this is built on Cultist Simulator, so that's to be expected. If you get a group together to play some Vampire: The Masquerade, you're not expecting everyone to stay Humanity 8+, you're going to be feeding on humans and probably killing people. The player who has their PC try to publish a tell-all exposé and then walk out into a busy street in the middle of the day to self-immolate in the sunlight and bring the masquerade crashing down is not going to get invited to the next session, even if that is arguably the most moral thing the PC could do. Kindred feed on kine, the Know sacrifice other mortals. They all find some way to excuse it to themselves - but an excuse isn't the same thing as a justification, and something doesn't need to be even remotely moral to be a core game mechanic.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

At the same time, this game is set in My Little Pony, where one could expect that the Mansus might be bent to a less horrid course. Alas and alack, the voters' desire to try such seems to be ever-dwindling.

 

[Sveta08]

Hmm....
Unrelateded, at least so far as things can be unrelated, but!
I'm hunting down a passage. The phrasing for it. There was...

There was a moment that Velvet had. Realizing something about how all maps, all charts, all globes are mere expressions of the same message, and were just trying to point to Glory. And I am fighting to find that.
Would anyone happen to remember where that was? Searching all instances of "Map" has been... slow going indeed.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Hmm....
Unrelateded, at least so far as things can be unrelated, but!
I'm hunting down a passage. The phrasing for it. There was...

There was a moment that Velvet had. Realizing something about how all maps, all charts, all globes are mere expressions of the same message, and were just trying to point to Glory. And I am fighting to find that.
Would anyone happen to remember where that was? Searching all instances of "Map" has been... slow going indeed.

Click to shrink...

I would either look around that time you discovered where Selene was (it involved a lot of maps) or around the Lore level blurbs.

This doesnt sound like what youre looking for, but feels close.

There are several Histories, but only one Mansus, and this has taught you that no matter how tangled a web might be, there will always be a point of convergence. No matter what you search for, there will always be similarities to be found in other Histories.

Click to shrink...

Thats what came to my mind, at least.

 

[Quaxotia]

[X] (THRONE) You will try to change things.

I can't say it's the optimal choice, but it does parallel the choice Velvet Covers made all those moons ago that eventually led her to the Bureau.

[X] Plan: All and Two