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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
"These are the signs of the king honour-broke,"
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Yeah, when a sovereign does that, it's a bad sign.

Mr Zoat said:
"You use lightning but don't understand the first thing about physics. Let me educate-"

Reforge.

"-you."
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Oh this will be good

Mr Zoat said:
"Treading the backs and the necks of his folk,"
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A sure sign that a rebellion must occur.

Mr Zoat said:
"Tyrannous, cunning and cruel."
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That describes Zeus quite well.

Mr Zoat said:
"Bring him down – set someone else in his place,"
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Obvious solution and he's had it coming for a LONG time

Mr Zoat said:
"Such men are not fit to rule."
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Well said, it's about time someone said this to Zeus' face.

Mr Zoat said:
Oh dear. A figure I immediately recognise as Ares calmly strolls in through the wedged open doors, smiling at the violence on display. And he's looking at me. Or rather us, because the Hellens can manage perfectly well with one war god.
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Oops, completely forgot about Ares.

Mr Zoat said:
Zeus slams both hands into Hephaestaean's cuirass, electricity crackling and winds roaring as the metal starts to give way!
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Uh Oh, I hope Paul has a plan for this.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Or rather us, because the Hellens can manage perfectly well with one war god.
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I don't understand this line.
Mr Zoat said:
Majesty. Power. Presence. Caged lightning. Gar.
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What's Gar?
Mr Zoat said:
"If my youngest daughter wants my attention then she can earn it."
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Eris is Zeus daughter (and full sister of Area and Hephaestus) here instead of being one of Nyx's get?

Or is she, in some weird way, both?
 
Rafin said:
What's Gar?

Eris is Zeus daughter (and full sister of Area and Hephaestus) here instead of being one of Nyx's get?

Or is she, in some weird way, both?
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Gar, in this context, is an internet term that arose from 4chan. It means someone that is so manly that even a normally straight man would go gay for them.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gar

Zeus isn't referring to Eris in this instance but Cassandra Sandsmark, the future Wonder Girl.

https://youngjustice.fandom.com/wiki/Wonder_Girl
 
Rafin said:
I don't understand this line.
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Hellens are the people of Greece.

Athena is a Goddess of War, though her domain is strategy and planning rather than getting in someone's face and stabbing them until they die. The SI is stating his belief that she can handle the whole thing.

Us refers to the SI and the Ophidian.
 
Darko said:
Zeus may be out of practice in the fighting department and the reason he may not be so good at integrating the powers is because he never bothered to practice it since there may not have been much of a need for him to do that in the past.

Plus it's possible that all those rebellions never happened in this story.



I doubt that Ares cares about Aphrodite being married.



Paul still needs his rings to do a lot of things and I don't think the Guardians shackled magic in this story.
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Zeus not fighting in the Titanomachy would be a massive change to Greek Mythology.

We know that's at least 10 years of front line experience there given his thunder and lightning were repeatedly said to be weapons he wielded against the Titans. He even slayed Campe as a young man, the Warden of Tarterus in order to free the Hekatonkeries, which is a being who is no joke itself.

And then Zeus not overcoming the Gigantes and Gaia's anger at the Olympians in the Gigantomachy would be a great change.

Moreover we know that the Gods attempting to overthrow Zeus, especially Hera, Poseidon, and Athena is a big part of his mythos. And Zeus won there too.

Finally one of the ultimate trials he overcame and reasons he stood as King was in his defeat of Typhon, a monster said to be beyond basically all of the other Gods and capable of withstanding all but Zeus.

It was essentially said that without Zeus taking the rapid action he did, Typhon would have ended up ruling over all the gods and mortals in Greek myth.

I mean, I get it, Zeus has a lot of shitty traits.

But to deny that he does have his areas of competence and that he does hold power, skill, and experience is to do the character and underlying mythology a vast disservice and would be pretty overt and heavy handed flanderization.
 
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Ganurath said:
All of Zeus's victories were at a time in history when humanity saw the sky as insurmountable, beyond them. In the modern era, technology has allowed the conquest of the heavens.
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I mean, I'm not really sure what you're getting at here?

Humans developing more advanced technology doesn't exactly decertify the feats Zeus performed in the past, or mean that he is necessarily any weaker. It doesn't mean that stopping a Pantheon Killer by yourself or Slaying the Warden of Tartarus suddenly doesn't say anything about your power and skill

The chapter even acknowledges he hasn't lost anything from back then and that most mortals would essentially be utterly destroyed even being in his mere undiluted presence.

Sure, through the power of the Dreaming humans can shape Gods, but it takes a hell of a lot to do so.

Sandman and other stories involving such entities even show that despite their lack of modern day prominence in the public eye and mortal disbelief being a thing that they still in many cases their power is still very real and chugging along just fine.

And here Zeus is hooked up to the primordial forces underlying those conceptual elementals, which themselves still exist and hold power in the setting anyways.
 
Xepeyon said:
I mean, I'm not really sure what you're getting at here?

Humans developing more advanced technology doesn't exactly decertify the feats Zeus performed in the past, or mean that he is necessarily any weaker. It doesn't mean that stopping a Pantheon Killer by yourself or Slaying the Warden of Tartarus suddenly doesn't say anything about your power and skill

The chapter even acknowledges he hasn't lost anything from back then and that most mortals would essentially be utterly destroyed even being in his mere undiluted presence.

Sure, through the power of the Dreaming humans can shape Gods, but it takes a hell of a lot to do so.

Sandman and other stories involving such entities even show that despite their lack of modern day prominence in the public eye and mortal disbelief being a thing that they still in many cases their power is still very real and chugging along just fine.

And here Zeus is hooked up to the primordial forces underlying those conceptual elementals, which themselves still exist and hold power in the setting anyways.
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If human perception of cats can power down a corporeal species, then human perception of the sky can influence the puissance of a god that draws power from Aether.
 
Ganurath said:
If human perception of cats can power down a corporeal species, then human perception of the sky can influence the puissance of a god that draws power from Aether.
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This is not the same thing. I mean, even in that story it took the collective, concentrated effort of all of humanity at once focusing on making one specific change. It was directed and intentional and forceful.

Moreover we know it's not a one way street because the Gods themselves come to influence the world of DC humans through their elevated existence. I mean look at New Genesis and Apocalypse. When Darkseid was winning heroes started to lose. Sure, you have As Below, So Above if there is a working on that scale, but you also have As Above So Below, meaning that the Gods to have power of their own.

And the Titans themselves arose from the building blocks of human consciousness. The most primal elements. And those innate perspectives and patterns and power contained within is what Zoat has Zeus elevating his already great power with, which means that what you're saying is arguably even less potent because of that anyways due to how baked in to humanity they are.
 
Vaermina said:
Weapons of War not Weapons in War.

Though... I do expect he got a rather large addition to his portfolio in the 21st century with the normalization of Economic Warfare.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that's how it works for Old Gods in this story. Zoat seems to be going with the idea that a deity's nature doesn't change after creation, unless external stuff happens like just did with Hephaestus (now Hephaestaean). Either Ares always counted economic warfare as part of his domain (which I doubt), or he never has and never will. I could be completely wrong, though.
 
I'm expecting Apollo will be called in or jump in of his own initiative as payback for the pigpen incident? I'm imagining a sniper barrage of golden sunlight arrows, if Paragon takes to the skies in fighting Ares. The Olympians who weren't involved in the anti-Zeus planning should have some kind of reaction, even if it's just to spectate in some fashion (though I suppose they could do so indirectly to maintain plausible deniability).

One idea I'm not sure was discussed is doing what Zeus did to the Titans (taking advantage of the empowerment connection) and replicating it with his own link to Billy/Captain Marvel. The ethics of bringing a kid into the plan (not sure how old he is now) are a consideration, but it does seem like something that could be explored (the actual effects of this coup, if successful, on Captain Marvel have already been discussed, I know).
 
Xepeyon said:
Zeus not fighting in the Titanomachy would be a massive change to Greek Mythology.

We know that's at least 10 years of front line experience there given his thunder and lightning were repeatedly said to be weapons he wielded against the Titans. He even slayed Campe as a young man, the Warden of Tarterus in order to free the Hekatonkeries, which is a being who is no joke itself.

And then Zeus not overcoming the Gigantes and Gaia's anger at the Olympians in the Gigantomachy would be a great change.

Moreover we know that the Gods attempting to overthrow Zeus, especially Hera, Poseidon, and Athena is a big part of his mythos. And Zeus won there too.

Finally one of the ultimate trials he overcame and reasons he stood as King was in his defeat of Typhon, a monster said to be beyond basically all of the other Gods and capable of withstanding all but Zeus.

It was essentially said that without Zeus taking the rapid action he did, Typhon would have ended up ruling over all the gods and mortals in Greek myth.

I mean, I get it, Zeus has a lot of shitty traits.

But to deny that he does have his areas of competence and that he does hold power, skill, and experience is to do the character and underlying mythology a vast disservice and would be pretty overt and heavy handed flanderization.
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I wasn't talking about the Titanomachy, just the Gigantomachy and the rebellion.

We know that the Titonomachy, or at least a version of it, happened in this fic, but the other things may not have happened and are purely myth.

And even if Zeus did all those things; it may not matter since he hasn't faced any serious combat or action in the millenia since those things happened, so he's become rusty.
 
DrThoth said:
I'm expecting Apollo will be called in or jump in of his own initiative as payback for the pigpen incident? I'm imagining a sniper barrage of golden sunlight arrows, if Paragon takes to the skies in fighting Ares. The Olympians who weren't involved in the anti-Zeus planning should have some kind of reaction, even if it's just to spectate in some fashion (though I suppose they could do so indirectly to maintain plausible deniability).
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Given what was said before about Zeus being a major deterrent for things, wouldn't the other gods know that "no Zeus" equals "really bad things happen to us" so act to help Zeus instead of hinder him?
 
Vaermina said:
Given what was said before about Zeus being a major deterrent for things, wouldn't the other gods know that "no Zeus" equals "really bad things happen to us" so act to help Zeus instead of hinder him?
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If Zeus was being removed with no replacement then I think you'd definitely be right, but since it's Hephaestaean doing it (and presumably becoming king if he wins) and he seems to have similar strength to Zeus, that might not be so much of an issue. Still, it seems likely that even if Hephaestaean is strong removing Zeus still seems like a risk to some deities, so they'll side with him (similarly to Ares wanting to preserve the status quo).
 
Duke Long said:
If Zeus was being removed with no replacement then I think you'd definitely be right, but since it's Hephaestaean doing it (and presumably becoming king if he wins) and he seems to have similar strength to Zeus, that might not be so much of an issue. Still, it seems likely that even if Hephaestaean is strong removing Zeus still seems like a risk to some deities, so they'll side with him (similarly to Ares wanting to preserve the status quo).
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Honestly I suspect the long standing beef with Heph is the only reason Ares would have for supporting Zeus.

Loyalty to Zeus? Zeus treats him like dogshit stuck to the bottom of his sandals.

Protect the status quo? He's the god of war, Ares and Eris go together like peanut butter and jelly, she's essentially counted among his entourage like Phobos and Deimos in mythology.

If it were say Athena taking the throne, Ares probably would have cracked his skull open the moment Zeus turns his back.
 
Duke Long said:
If Zeus was being removed with no replacement then I think you'd definitely be right, but since it's Hephaestaean doing it (and presumably becoming king if he wins) and he seems to have similar strength to Zeus, that might not be so much of an issue. Still, it seems likely that even if Hephaestaean is strong removing Zeus still seems like a risk to some deities, so they'll side with him (similarly to Ares wanting to preserve the status quo).
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It very specifically wasn't Zeus's strength that was keeping things at bay, it was his reputation.

So even if Hephaestus can match Zeus in strength, Hephaestus's reputation is that of the pantheon's bitch boy, so "things" are going to try for them, and who knows how many other Greek God's will die before Hephaestus can hunt down and destroy the "Things" that are attacking them.
 
Vaermina said:
It very specifically wasn't Zeus's strength that was keeping things at bay, it was his reputation.

So even if Hephaestus can match Zeus in strength, Hephaestus's reputation is that of the pantheon's bitch boy, so "things" are going to try for them, and who knows how many other Greek God's will die before Hephaestus can hunt down and destroy the "Things" that are attacking them.
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Sure, yeah, take a tilt at the pantheon lead by a guy who can make god level nanomachines, kill sats and predictive combat AI. It'll be funny.
 
Queshire said:
Sure, yeah, take a tilt at the pantheon lead by a guy who can make god level nanomachines, kill sats and predictive combat AI. It'll be funny.
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None of which exist in the minds of the "Things" that would be judging their chances in an attack on members of the pantheon.

And yes, sure he will eventually build up a reputation by dint of killing stuff.

But that won't save say, Hestia, from getting eaten by some "Thing" that's willing to chance it against the unproven new guy.
 
Handlewithcare said:
All Hepheastus would have to do is to promise to divorce Aphrodite and Ares would switch sides.
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APHRODITE: Wait, you're dumping ME?!

HEPHAESTIAN: Well, after becoming the Titan-god of Technology and Ruler of Olympus, I gained enough perspective to finally realize how basically nonexistent our relationship is.

APHRODITE: It doesn't HAVE to be an nonexistent relationship anymore, though! You, Master of Sciences, ME Mistress of Passion! We could be the perfect Power Couple!

HEPHAESTIAN: YOU just want to be Queen of The Heavens so you can gloat about it to Venus, and boss Athena and Hera around.

APHRODITE: Please, am I really THAT much of a shallow gold-digger? .....Don't answer that.
 
It would be hilarious if Zeus was cut off from the titans and massively gained clear thinking, competence and skill during the fight. Losing his arrogance and hubris

Enough so that the power difference ceased to matter because he essentially becomes a shounen protag again.

Such a subversion would be a fun surprise especially since Zeus winning this way doesn't necessarily get a bad end.
 
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