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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Hmmm... war can be pretty good at cutting desires short in much the same measure as a headsman's axe, but desire is threaded through the core of war as rage at the enemy or the will to do your duty is. People wage war out of a desire for land or resources, soldiers desire to live through the next battle and all sorts of the worst desires are on displaying during the looting that comes after a battle.

I don't know if OL or the Ophidian have enough of a fine touch when it comes to divine combat to take advantage of that though. I would give best snek the advantage in pure power though. She's at least the equivalent of a Titan and is probably higher than that.
 
BlueMangoAdea said:
"Main character does everything" is just a bit too narratively unsatisfying. This is Hephaestus's moment. Not Paul's.
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Hephaestus vs Zeus is the big dramatic moment.
Keeping people from interfering is just being a good friend.

Well, that said, Heph's business with Ares is also personal, but... I dunno if he can win 2-on-1.
 
If the Muses don't show up as a back-up Chorus to Paragon's singing, I will be gravely disappointed.

I wonder if conceptually Hephaestus can reclaim his hammer if he argues it's a tool, not a weapon, and that progress requires discarding the old inefficient structures of the world- reframing the fight as a technological process of sorts rather than a battle- a bit like a rhetorical argument made literal with metaphysical concepts.

Speaking of rhetoric, I'd have expected all the godly-related italics to be in Invisible God-Speech, unless there's a Word of Zoat that I missed about it. If Diana's lasso can say 'Truth' in invisi-speech, I feel like the machinations of these Old Gods (though I guess Hephaestean is funnily enough a new Old God) should have the same effect.

If Zeus is overthrown, what will the implications be for his counterpart Jupiter? I assume he can't/won't intervene, but his reaction should be a consideration, I think. Athena's on the hopefully-winning side though, so I'm sure there's a plan if that would become an issue. (I personally don't care for the whole splitting Greek and Roman gods into completely separate beings as a concept, but I know canon isn't on my side).
 
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DrThoth said:
If the Muses don't show up as a back-up Chorus to Paragon's singing, I will be gravely disappointed.

I wonder if conceptually Hephaestus can reclaim his hammer if he argues it's a tool, not a weapon, and that progress requires discarding the old inefficient structures of the world- reframing the fight as a technological process of sorts rather than a battle- a bit like a rhetorical argument made literal with metaphysical concepts.

Speaking of rhetoric, I'd have expected all the godly-related italics to be in Invisible God-Speech, unless there's a Word of Zoat that I missed about it. If Diana's lasso can say 'Truth' in invisi-speech, I feel like the machinations of these Old Gods (though I guess Hephaestean is funnily enough a new Old God) should have the same effect.

If Zeus is overthrown, what will the implications be for his counterpart Jupiter? I assume he can't/won't intervene, but his reaction should be a consideration, I think. Athena's on the hopefully-winning side though, so I'm sure they can manage.
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The reason that the godspeech isn't invisible is because Paul has stepped bodily into the godrealm. It's all invisitext, and he's playing with the revealer on, so it's all normal.
 
Darko said:
'shifts his'
'but he'
'them turns'
'each attack'
'heat is'
'bending around' 'burning around'
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Thank you, corrected.
'Zeus' shoulder is down before he does'
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I think I've been consistent about this.
'the shaft'
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Haft, though shaft would work as well.
Missing some " for this.
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If I fix it before you post then it doesn't count.
We see where Astarte got her powers from.
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I think you mean Hippolyta.
moralrelativity said:
That's very apt. How long have you been waiting to use that gem?
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Several years at least.
DrThoth said:
If Zeus is overthrown, what will the implications be for his counterpart Jupiter? I assume he can't/won't intervene, but his reaction should be a consideration, I think. Athena's on the hopefully-winning side though, so I'm sure they can manage.
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Jerks awake, sees that nothing is happening, goes back to sleep.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Such man are not fit to rule."
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'men' I think, though I'm not familiar with the lyrics.

Mr Zoat said:
And he's looking at me. Or rather us, because the Hellens can manage perfectly well with one war god.
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Can someone explain what this means to me?

Mr Zoat said:
An ork.
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I would've thought an enlightened Waaagh user would act like a krork. Or do you not believe in them, since they're new?
 
Darko said:
It means that Ares is looking at both Paul and the Ophidian and that Paul is probably going to get rid of Ares.
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Oh, I get it now. I was confused about the war god part, but your post reminded me that Athena is a war god. I thought that maybe it was saying Ares wanted to attack Paul to remove competition, so I was wondering how Paul became a war god without me noticing.
 
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I...what the heck was up with the singing during such a dangerous and important moment? I mean, not only does if feel out of nowhere, but the inclusion of singing honestly feels like it takes something away from the significance of the moment imo.

Especially with the degree of buildup and foreshadowing which has led to the moment in question.

The link didn't show up when I first loaded the page either so I was admittedly confused at first when random lines from Paul got interspersed in the scene. Broke the hell out of my immersion lmao.
I'm shocked Hephaestan is capable of seemingly fighting so evenly with Zeus. Even for as long as he has.

I mean combat has never really been Hephaestus's thing, meanwhile in mythology Zeus has an abundance of feats ascribed to him in that sphere.

Moreover Zeus has had eons to adapt and integrate the powers of the Titans he is tapping into, as well as develop his skills and control wielding it, meanwhile Heph is incredibly new to having that level of power, but not himself.

And it would be strange given previous Olympian rebellions and cross-pantheon interactions and the Gigantomancy that Zeus would be unfamiliar with metaphysical beings fucking with his mojo.

Now their methods may have been more Arcane than tech based, but the underlying principles would be something you would think would inoculate him from being too surprised or stunned.
I do have a question for anyone who wants to answer though. Why exactly is Hephaestus so pissed off at Ares when Aphrodite, his wife was the one who decided to cheat and continue along with the affair. I mean, if anything, wouldn't she hold the majority of the blame given that she herself was the one in the relationship with Ares?
 
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Vaermina said:
Logically the definition Ares operates under is probably "Has it been used as a weapon of war, if yes, it's mine to control".
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Directly clashing with someone backed by the Ophidian when it comes to ownership of somethimg in that person's possession? That hardly seems like a winning tactic, Vae. Plus, Ares isn't just a war god. He embodies certain aspects of war. I expect most of his godly mojo will resonate more with increasing his own capabilities and increasing the blood & chaos on the battlefield than stealing other people's weapons. Well, at least now that he's already armed.


rkyeun said:
Tools of genocide are definitely weapons. If you can kill the Citadelians with it, you've baptized it well enough for Ares to do what he wishes with it.
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It's also the product of some of the most advanced technology in the universe which puts it under Hepestian's authority and belongs to OL which puts it under the Ophidian's authority. I don't think it's conceptually defenseless.

DrThoth said:
If the Muses don't show up as a back-up Chorus to Paragon's singing, I will be gravely disappointed.

I wonder if conceptually Hephaestus can reclaim his hammer if he argues it's a tool, not a weapon, and that progress requires discarding the old inefficient structures of the world- reframing the fight as a technological process of sorts rather than a battle- a bit like a rhetorical argument made literal with metaphysical concepts.

Speaking of rhetoric, I'd have expected all the godly-related italics to be in Invisible God-Speech, unless there's a Word of Zoat that I missed about it. If Diana's lasso can say 'Truth' in invisi-speech, I feel like the machinations of these Old Gods (though I guess Hephaestean is funnily enough a new Old God) should have the same effect.

If Zeus is overthrown, what will the implications be for his counterpart Jupiter? I assume he can't/won't intervene, but his reaction should be a consideration, I think. Athena's on the hopefully-winning side though, so I'm sure they can manage.
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A hammer is a potent symbol for a god of the forge, but not as much of a symbol for a god of technology. Plus, since he's moving onto a new role it could be beneficial for him to lose that symbol of his past nature.
 
Queshire said:
A hammer is a potent symbol for a god of the forge, but not as much of a symbol for a god of technology. Plus, since he's moving onto a new role it could be beneficial for him to lose that symbol of his past nature.
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This got me thinking about how the Save icon for most common user interfaces is still the floppy disk, even though the actual object is obsolete.
Since 40K exists in this world, maybe Paragon's references to mechadendrites (both in relation to Io earlier, and Hephaesteon now) means his new symbol will more or less resemble the Adeptus Mechanicus sigil (if that leads to Games Workshop suing a god in court or something, that would be fun). I don't actually think that's the case, but it's fun to imagine.
 
Duke Long said:
'men' I think, though I'm not familiar with the lyrics.
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Thank you, corrected.
Can someone explain what this means to me?
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He thinks that Athena can cover the domain without Ares. She can't, actually, but he doesn't know that.
I would've thought an enlightened Waaagh user would act like a krork. Or do you not believe in them, since they're new?
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Brain Boys were mentioned in 2nd Edition. They're not new.
 
DrThoth said:
If the Muses don't show up as a back-up Chorus to Paragon's singing, I will be gravely disappointed.

I wonder if conceptually Hephaestus can reclaim his hammer if he argues it's a tool, not a weapon, and that progress requires discarding the old inefficient structures of the world- reframing the fight as a technological process of sorts rather than a battle- a bit like a rhetorical argument made literal with metaphysical concepts.

Speaking of rhetoric, I'd have expected all the godly-related italics to be in Invisible God-Speech, unless there's a Word of Zoat that I missed about it. If Diana's lasso can say 'Truth' in invisi-speech, I feel like the machinations of these Old Gods (though I guess Hephaestean is funnily enough a new Old God) should have the same effect.

If Zeus is overthrown, what will the implications be for his counterpart Jupiter? I assume he can't/won't intervene, but his reaction should be a consideration, I think. Athena's on the hopefully-winning side though, so I'm sure there's a plan if that would become an issue. (I personally don't care for the whole splitting Greek and Roman gods into completely separate beings as a concept, but I know canon isn't on my side).
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If you believe the wikipedia articles there arguably shouldn't be a DC Jupiter or even a Roman Pantheon at all at this point depending on how you're integrating the source material. The pantheons were originally separated due to the fuck fuck antics of Darkseid, only for them to be be reunited later on, which should have happened by this point in the timeline.

In the DC Universe, the machinations of the alien dark and demon god Darkseid when he spreads tales of the Roman Gods cause the Olympians to split into multiple aspects, with the Roman gods existing for a time as separate entities. Zeus' counterpart Jupiter rules his own Olympus in a separate dimension following this. The two pantheons are merged into single entities again centuries later.

After their encounter with the Source, the Roman god Jupiter and the Greek god Zeus fused into their singular complete forms. Eventually, the other gods did the same, except for the Roman goddess Diana (not to be confused with her namesake, Wonder Woman.[3]​
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Wonder Woman (Volume 2) #130

One day, the young Uxas of Apokolips came to Rome. There he spread tales of the great Olympian gods. Their following grew tremendously in Rome and so they created avatars of themselves; they were worshipped under different names. Uxas knew that each half of the pantheon would be less powerful than the original gods. Later as the alien dark and demon god Darkseid, Uxas would use this knowledge to crush Zeus himself.[3]​
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Wonder Woman (vol. 2) #131–133
 
Xepeyon said:
If you believe the wikipedia articles there arguably shouldn't be a DC Jupiter or even a Roman Pantheon at all at this point depending on how you're integrating the source material. The pantheons were originally separated due to the fuck fuck antics of Darkseid, only for them to be be reunited later on, which should have happened by this point in the timeline.


Wonder Woman (Volume 2) #130


Wonder Woman (vol. 2) #131–133
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I mean.... we've got pretty clear evidence that isn't the case here.
 
Queshire said:
I mean.... we've got pretty clear evidence that isn't the case here.
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I wasn't trying to deny that, haha. That does appear to be the case.

But I was more replying to Dr.Thoth mentioning their disinterest in the Greek Roman divide as a concept by sharing that it eventually was no longer a thing. And that offhand I could not remember how Zoat was planning on or already had integrated this portion of the continuity into the story.
 
rkyeun said:
Tools of genocide are definitely weapons. If you can kill the Citadelians with it, you've baptized it well enough for Ares to do what he wishes with it.
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Would you call a gas chamber a weapon? or the cold?

Replying to Vaermina

Vaermina said:
Logically the definition Ares operates under is probably "Has it been used as a weapon of war, if yes, it's mine to control".
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Wouldn't that make him the god of basically everything? water, fire, lightning, magic, cars, horses etc?
 
Handlewithcare said:
All Hepheastus would have to do is to promise to divorce Aphrodite and Ares would switch sides.

I second the motion of the Muses showing up and beatboxing in the background tjough.
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I doubt it will be that easy to get Ares to switch sides. Does Ares even want to marry Aphrodite? And Hephestus' main reason for doing this was to get revenge against Ares so I doubt he'll drop it now.
 
As I understand, Paul does not actually need the rings to manipulate the orange light anymore. He is a being made of light just like Alan, but with more self awareness. The rings serve as a conduit to access Best Snek's power without needing to fully merge & also provide AI support for complex actions.

And the Ophidian is basically 1 tier above a Titan. The light Entities & Titans are both manifestations concepts, it just happens that the Entities happened to be the first Titans to form, and so took up slots as sort of fundamental pillars of the universe which lets them survive the Guardians shackling of magic because they are more "real"
 
Xepeyon said:
I'm shocked Hephaestan is capable of seemingly fighting so evenly with Zeus. Even for as long as he has.

I mean combat has never really been Hephaestus's thing, meanwhile in mythology Zeus has an abundance of feats ascribed to him in that sphere.

Moreover Zeus has had eons to adapt and integrate the powers of the Titans he is tapping into, as well as develop his skills and control wielding it, meanwhile Heph is incredibly new to having that level of power, but not himself.

And it would be strange given previous Olympian rebellions and cross-pantheon interactions and the Gigantomancy that Zeus would be unfamiliar with metaphysical beings fucking with his mojo.

Now their methods may have been more Arcane than tech based, but the underlying principles would be something you would think would inoculate him from being too surprised or stunned.
I do have a question for anyone who wants to answer though. Why exactly is Hephaestus so pissed off at Ares when Aphrodite, his wife was the one who decided to cheat and continue along with the affair. I mean, if anything, wouldn't she hold the majority of the blame given that she herself was the one in the relationship with Ares?
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Zeus may be out of practice in the fighting department and the reason he may not be so good at integrating the powers is because he never bothered to practice it since there may not have been much of a need for him to do that in the past.

Plus it's possible that all those rebellions never happened in this story.

Handlewithcare said:
All Hepheastus would have to do is to promise to divorce Aphrodite and Ares would switch sides.
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I doubt that Ares cares about Aphrodite being married.

Ciber said:
As I understand, Paul does not actually need the rings to manipulate the orange light anymore. He is a being made of light just like Alan, but with more self awareness. The rings serve as a conduit to access Best Snek's power without needing to fully merge & also provide AI support for complex actions.

And the Ophidian is basically 1 tier above a Titan. The light Entities & Titans are both manifestations concepts, it just happens that the Entities happened to be the first Titans to form, and so took up slots as sort of fundamental pillars of the universe which lets them survive the Guardians shackling of magic because they are more "real"
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Paul still needs his rings to do a lot of things and I don't think the Guardians shackled magic in this story.
 
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