With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

RoninSword · Thursday at 3:48 PM

I mean, it's all part of the paranoia that Batman is going off the reservation, which is a fair concern.

But is there anything about the nanomachines specifically that mean it's horrible?

Stsword · Thursday at 3:52 PM

Ngamer11 said:
He only knows about Brother Eye and the robotic looking OMACs. He never read any comics about the original version of OMAC which was a guy called Buddy Blank who became a musclebound man with a mohawk thanks to nanobots. Paul doesn't even know how Batman is enhancing people. If he heard the name "Brother Eye" even once, he would've warned someone about it.

Buddy Blank's powers weren't originally nanites, they were beamed to him ala Powers as Programs from the Brother Eye satellite.

In the love letter to all things Kirby Bug! series the Brother Eye satellite was actually the housing of a Brotherbox so the powers would have presumably been an aspect of the New God matter transformation technology, the same one that allows 'boxes to heal people and provide a breathable atmosphere in outer space.

It was later versions of Buddy Blank that were nanite powered after the whole Brainiac13/Manhunter tech nanite OMACs were introduced in the comics.

Steelplaza · Thursday at 5:01 PM

This story beat was from six real life years ago, so if anyone needs a refresher on previous experience with OMACs, go here.

Note that Owlman was the one who made the OMACs, so it's not necessarily that Batman was copying his work but just that they're both going to end up building something similar in their disposable supersoldiers.

Mr Zoat · Thursday at 7:11 PM

Stsword said:
Buddy Blank's powers weren't originally nanites, they were beamed to him ala Powers as Programs from the Brother Eye satellite.

In the love letter to all things Kirby Bug! series the Brother Eye satellite was actually the housing of a Brotherbox so the powers would have presumably been an aspect of the New God matter transformation technology, the same one that allows 'boxes to heal people and provide a breathable atmosphere in outer space.

It was later versions of Buddy Blank that were nanite powered after the whole Brainiac13/Manhunter tech nanite OMACs were introduced in the comics.

They still do. The nanites are the receiver-end part of that mechanism.

Vaermina · Thursday at 8:55 PM

Neruz said:
Assuming he thought to check the comparison; OL has been running rather ragged lately.

Comparative analysis is a basic investigative standard.

If he forgot to do one, he's reached a point of being even less effective as a Lantern then Guy Gardener.

Mr Zoat · 2025-05-23T06:15:41+0100

17th July 2013
16:42 GMT -5

I look at the holographic display of the two types of nanotech in the samples, scan it, and then send a copy to Dox in the hope that he'll have some idea what I'm looking at.

"While I'm grateful for the high opinion you clearly have of my intelligence… What am I looking at?"

Dr. Cochin points to the image on the right. "That, is the sample you took from Mister Buddy Blank. The nanites are inert, but I managed to come up with a solution which prevents them decaying too quickly."

I frown. I do know something about applied nanotechnology due to having to deal with the nanofabricator, and… "Some sort of ultra-efficient heat conductor?"

"In the human body?" Dr. Cochin scoffs. "How would that work?"

"Magic?"

He narrows his eyes slightly in the manner of a teacher who isn't sure if the child is asking a genuine question or just disrupting the lesson. Sorry Mr. Maidment. Then he gives it a little thought.

"A simple binding wouldn't work -how would you even inscribe the runes?- but I suppose that a bound fey might be able to alter the conditions in which heat accumulates, or reduce the nanobots' vulnerability. And an arrangement with some manner of cold spirit might allow the human body to function at a reduced temperature or apply the spell specifically to the nanobots. I don't think that it would prove efficient as opposed to more corporeal methods, but I suspect that it could be made to work."

"It's probably best if you just explain it…"

"Yes." He nods. "To put it crudely, the energy is extracted by-." He considers. "To put it more crudely, any built up heat is sucked out into a parallel universe."

"Ah..?"

"Technically, it's a parallel proto-universe with a radically different energy gradient; there's no actual sucking, that part of the process is moderated by the difference in physical laws between the two universes. There's a small implant in the subject's body which maintains the link on this side. In Miss Barstow's case the primary and backup generators are located between her ribs and at the front of her coccyx."

"What happens if they're destroyed?"

He contemplates the ceiling for a moment. "Given the injuries that would have to have been taken for that to occur? Death, probably. The nanotech would also be reduced in effectiveness and gradually decay until it broke down completely."

I nod. "Because the attack would have to have gotten through the force fields, armour and super-tough flesh, so there's no point in adding in too much redundancy for a weapon system that would have to have already failed."

He nods. "Just so."

Hm. "The augmentations wouldn't cut out immediately?"

"No. The connection to that universe is… 'Sticky', for wont of a better term that you would understand. It would decay, but it wouldn't decay to nothing instantly."

"Can that connection be tracked?"

"Yes. I've already built a device to do just that. Your ring should be able to manage it easily."

Scan… Oh yeah! Now, the O.M.A.C.s from Earth -14 used the Amazo system, but since their version was nanotech based I.. probably can't detect our Amazo, though it would be worth giving it a try. So, limited utility, but if the system can be used-.

Ah. It might make cold guns obsolete. If this works on the sort of scale a nanoforge would need…

"Could you make a nanoforge with that technique? I mean, handling the thermal regulation aspect?"

"Not at an industrial scale. It wouldn't work well for large area saturation." He makes a small smile. "So Doctor Snart's livelihood is quite safe. If I may continue?"

I nod, making a circling notion with my right hand.

"The sample from Mister Blank uses the same system for thermal regulation. I haven't examined the man in person, but I imagine that it would require similar implants."

"What about the base station I destroyed?"

He shakes his head. "The O.M.A.C.s are a mature technology, and their version requires close physical proximity. I would be surprised if the revised version were more effective. I suspect that the base station was simply a relay for the empowerment system."

"The production model uses Ap-. New God technology instead."

Mr. Luthor raises his eyebrows. "Apokoliptian technology? I had assumed that the League was simply disposing of it in a controlled manner. Are they hoarding it?"

"I don't know. I haven't been involved in that side of things. It's-. The League does have contact with New Genesis through Scott Free, and the technology shares the same base."

"But you don't believe that's where it comes from."

"I'd be surprised if he hadn't had someone from New Genesis give it the once-over, but…" I shrug. "Why negotiate for access to something when you've got a big pile of it already? There was plenty of Apokoliptian technology left over that had nothing to do with broadcasting the Anti-Life, and the broadcasters could be broken down into their component parts. With the Anti-Life fragment destroyed they're not dangerous on their own."

"But they could become so again."

I shake my head. "If Darkseid turned his attention our way as we are now, there isn't much we could do about it anyway. Batman was at ground zero for the white light blast. He isn't Anti-Lifed or possessed or whatever. The… Broadcasters could be used to broadcast other ethereal… Ah. Things, if they were modified to do so, which is.. how the energy output and communications reaches the Peace Operatives."

"What sort of generator is he using to supercharge them?"

I shake my head. "I've got no idea. It could be New God, but equally it might just be a big warehouse full of bleed torsion generators. New God technology is good at bypassing compatibility issues."

"Did you ever find out where Owlman got the O.M.A.C. technology? Did he develop it himself, or did he acquire it from elsewhere?"

"I didn't find out. I could probably get a message to my alter-ego if you need to know."

"I was just wondering whether Batman could have developed it using his own resources, or if he had taken it upon himself to acquire some of Owlman's equipment? There was a gap between your acquisition of the inter-planar jamming device and its utilisation, and he would have been able to temporarily deactivate it anyway."

Huh. "I suppose he.. could have done. Or developed it on our Earth. It's advanced, but Earth technology is infamously irregular in its progression." I shake my head. "I don't know, I'm afraid. He never gave any sign of visiting there, and no one there mentioned it when I went there."

I look at the images again.

"Is there any sign… That they've got the full Amazo abilities?"

Dr. Cochin shakes his head. "I'd have to examine one directly to discover that."

"Alright, well… Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'll let you know if I discover anything else on my end."

BR549 · 2025-05-23T06:22:02+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"To put it more crudely, and built up heat is sucked out into a parallel universe."

"any", I believe.

TFTwink · 2025-05-23T06:23:04+0100

So, my guess is on Bats going too far and that being a Watsonian explanation as to maintaining Earth Status Quo as to government and so forth.

Mr Zoat · 2025-05-23T06:27:28+0100

BR549 said:
"any", I believe.

Thank you, corrected.

Chojin Patriarch · 2025-05-23T07:22:22+0100

Mr Zoat said:
17th July 2013
16:42 GMT -5

I look at the holographic display of the two types of nanotech in the samples, scan it, and then send a copy to Dox in the hope that he'll have some idea what I'm looking at.

"While I'm grateful for the high opinion you clearly have of my intelligence… What am I looking at?"

Eh, Dox will probably take one look at it, go 'Ugh, more Earth madness.' and stick it in his to-do box for later. Still, I'm impressed Cochin managed to identify the similarities. Working at that scale must be tricky.

Dr. Cochin points to the image on the right. "That, is the sample you took from Mister Buddy Blank. The nanites are inert, but I managed to come up with a solution which prevents them decaying too quickly."

I frown. I do know something about applied nanotechnology due to having to deal with the nanofabricator, and… "Some sort of ultra-efficient heat conductor?"

Well, that's definitely something of interest.

"In the human body?" Dr. Cochin scoffs. "How would that work?"

"Magic?"

He narrows his eyes slightly in the manner of a teacher who isn't sure if the child is asking a genuine question or just disrupting the lesson. Sorry Mr. Maidment. Then he gives it a little thought.

...I'm sure we've all seen that look on a teacher's face. But magic does seem a reasonable option.

"A simple binding wouldn't work -how would you even inscribe the runes?- but I suppose that a bound fey might be able to alter the conditions in which heat accumulates, or reduce the nanobots' vulnerability. And an arrangement with some manner of cold spirit might allow the human body to function at a reduced temperature or apply the spell specifically to the nanobots. I don't think that it would prove efficient as opposed to more corporeal methods, but I suspect that it could be made to work."

I assume runes have a minimum size requirement, so microscopic etchings probably don't work.

"It's probably best if you just explain it…"

"Yes." He nods. "To put it crudely, the energy is extracted by-." He considers. "To put it more crudely, any built up heat is sucked out into a parallel universe."

"Ah..?"

Well, that seems... Eminently irresponsible.

"Technically, it's a parallel proto-universe with a radically different energy gradient; there's no actual sucking, that part of the process is moderated by the difference in physical laws between the two universes. There's a small implant in the subject's body which maintains the link on this side. In Miss Barstow's case the primary and backup generators are located between her ribs and at the front of her coccyx."

Ah, so it's basically Magic via technobabble.

"What happens if they're destroyed?"

He contemplates the ceiling for a moment. "Given the injuries that would have to have been taken for that to occur? Death, probably. The nanotech would also be reduced in effectiveness and gradually decay until it broke down completely."

Yeah, neither location is particularly inessential. Get either busted and you're basically dead anyway. Or wishing you were.

I nod. "Because the attack would have to have gotten through the force fields, armour and super-tough flesh, so there's no point in adding in too much redundancy for a weapon system that would have to have already failed."

He nods. "Just so."

And anything strong enough to manage that would pulp the systems anyway. A reasonable definition of lost causes.

Hm. "The augmentations wouldn't cut out immediately?"

"No. The connection to that universe is… 'Sticky', for wont of a better term that you would understand. It would decay, but it wouldn't decay to nothing instantly."

Funky stuff. Makes you wonder how the original designer managed it...

"Can that connection be tracked?"

"Yes. I've already built a device to do just that. Your ring should be able to manage it easily."

I assume the specs are available in-hand, then. Presumably a USB stick in his hand or something.

Scan… Oh yeah! Now, the O.M.A.C.s from Earth -14 used the Amazo system, but since their version was nanotech based I.. probably can't detect our Amazo, though it would be worth giving it a try. So, limited utility, but if the system can be used-.

Ah. It might make cold guns obsolete. If this works on the sort of scale a nanoforge would need…

Well, that would be a big boost to the nanotechnology field. Never mind his personal interest in using it in Hub City.

"Could you make a nanoforge with that technique? I mean, handling the thermal regulation aspect?"

"Not at an industrial scale. It wouldn't work well for large area saturation." He makes a small smile. "So Doctor Snart's livelihood is quite safe. If I may continue?"

Damn. But for human-use nanobots... Could be useful.

I nod, making a circling notion with my right hand.

"The sample from Mister Blank uses the same system for thermal regulation. I haven't examined the man in person, but I imagine that it would require similar implants."

Which would be egregious if OL's scans missed it. Unless they're scan-warded...

"What about the base station I destroyed?"

He shakes his head. "The O.M.A.C.s are a mature technology, and their version requires close physical proximity. I would be surprised if the revised version were more effective. I suspect that the base station was simply a relay for the empowerment system."

Makes sense. Especially if he were in an otherwise signal-resistant location.

"The production model uses Ap-. New God technology instead."

Mr. Luthor raises his eyebrows. "Apokoliptian technology? I had assumed that the League was simply disposing of it in a controlled manner. Are they hoarding it?"

Oh, his interest is piqued. Better not be getting ideas about acquiring some, Lex.

"I don't know. I haven't been involved in that side of things. It's-. The League does have contact with New Genesis through Scott Free, and the technology shares the same base."

"But you don't believe that's where it comes from."

Why get some shipped in when it's sitting all over the place already? Don't mind the demonic whispers, that's just lingering mood energy.

"I'd be surprised if he hadn't had someone from New Genesis give it the once-over, but…" I shrug. "Why negotiate for access to something when you've got a big pile of it already? There was plenty of Apokoliptian technology left over that had nothing to do with broadcasting the Anti-Life, and the broadcasters could be broken down into their component parts. With the Anti-Life fragment destroyed they're not dangerous on their own."

Still smacks of sloppy planning, reusing something that's potentially exploitable by enemy forces.

"But they could become so again."

I shake my head. "If Darkseid turned his attention our way as we are now, there isn't much we could do about it anyway. Batman was at ground zero for the white light blast. He isn't Anti-Lifed or possessed or whatever. The… Broadcasters could be used to broadcast other ethereal… Ah. Things, if they were modified to do so, which is.. how the energy output and communications reaches the Peace Operatives."

And that doesn't fill you with a certain creeping dread? OL's spent too much time thinking like a local...

"What sort of generator is he using to supercharge them?"

I shake my head. "I've got no idea. It could be New God, but equally it might just be a big warehouse full of bleed torsion generators. New God technology is good at bypassing compatibility issues."

And that's assuming they're not using dimensional trickery like the heat-dampening.

"Did you ever find out where Owlman got the O.M.A.C. technology? Did he develop it himself, or did he acquire it from elsewhere?"

"I didn't find out. I could probably get a message to my alter-ego if you need to know."

Presumably via a long-range dimensional hop and data transfer. What with their Earth still having trans-dimensional interdiction setup.

"I was just wondering whether Batman could have developed it using his own resources, or if he had taken it upon himself to acquire some of Owlman's equipment? There was a gap between your acquisition of the inter-planar jamming device and its utilisation, and he would have been able to temporarily deactivate it anyway."

...That is sadly too plausible.

Huh. "I suppose he.. could have done. Or developed it on our Earth. It's advanced, but Earth technology is infamously irregular in its progression." I shake my head. "I don't know, I'm afraid. He never gave any sign of visiting there, and no one there mentioned it when I went there."

That's not a great indicator, especially if it happened after your last trip.

I look at the images again.

"Is there any sign… That they've got the full Amazo abilities?"

...Oh, that's not paranoia-inducing at all, no sir. An army of brain-washed soldiers answering to a single point of failure and they might have power-copying abilities?

Dr. Cochin shakes his head. "I'd have to examine one directly to discover that."

"Alright, well… Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'll let you know if I discover anything else on my end."

He better go straight to someone trustworthy with this.

And the OMAC program just gets more and more worrying with every thing OL digs up about it. There are more red flags here than a Communist rally, and I'm amazed he isn't [internally screaming] yet. There better be so many contingency plans for this going wrong that they threaten to tax a Ring's storage capacity.

Ngamer11 · 2025-05-23T07:55:12+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Dr. Cochin shakes his head. "I'd have to examine one directly to discover that."

This should have orange quotation marks as Dr. Cochin is copying Paul's enlightenment.

Vaermina · 2025-05-23T07:57:21+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"If Darkseid turned his attention our way as we are now, there isn't much we could do about it anyway.

That's false given the sheer number of Justice League variations that gave kicked his ass.

Silverias · 2025-05-23T08:04:30+0100

…I think the solution here may be explaining everything to bats. Like…where OL is from, the comics, all that, and then laying out where this goes.

Mr Zoat · 2025-05-23T08:30:01+0100

Ngamer11 said:
This should have orange quotation marks as Dr. Cochin is copying Paul's enlightenment.

Thank you, corrected.

Darko · 2025-05-23T09:04:33+0100

Vaermina said:
That's false given the sheer number of Justice League variations that gave kicked his ass.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, this version is much stronger than the League.

An avatar of his was able to basically beat them for months if you've forgotten about the time Anti-Life was happening.

Vaermina · 2025-05-23T09:04:58+0100

Silverias said:
…I think the solution here may be explaining everything to bats. Like…where OL is from, the comics, all that, and then laying out where this goes.

If he did that he would also have to come clean about a lot of the stuff he has just out right made up as part of his preaching

And there's nothing Orange Lantern wants more then for people to believe he is right about things.

Galler · 2025-05-23T10:02:28+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"In the human body?" Dr. Cochin scoffs. "How would that work?"

Is this meant to be OL speaking.

Signaller · 2025-05-23T11:32:02+0100

Silverias said:
…I think the solution here may be explaining everything to bats. Like…where OL is from, the comics, all that, and then laying out where this goes.

When was the last time we heard from OL!CommonSense?

Also, aside from Lex being off earth during the white light event, what about Georgia Sivana? Was she with Dox?

Mr Zoat · 2025-05-23T11:44:15+0100

Galler said:
Is this meant to be OL speaking.

No. Dr. 'Paragon' Cochin has the ability to copy abilities from everyone around him. He can't copy a power ring but he does copy some aspects of the SI's thought processes.

Ardy · 2025-05-23T13:36:06+0100

I keep forgetting to comment that I'm 99% sure Boss Smiley is involved in this heavily, but my specifics are all fuzzy

Steelplaza · 2025-05-23T14:06:21+0100

Every time OL talks about Darkseid being basically invincible I'm never sure how to take it.

There's a lot of evidence it's true that Darkseid is very, very powerful. But on the other hand, Darkseid's god-name is completely tied up in tyranny and despotism. He's required by everything in his nature to project an image of being more powerful than he actually is. However powerful he seems to be, he has to be somewhat weaker than that. His god-name requires acting like he's more powerful than he really is. How much weaker? I don't know; he still successfully does a lot of impressive things. Definitely weaker than OL thinks he is, though.

Mr Zoat · 2025-05-23T14:40:58+0100

Steelplaza said:
Every time OL talks about Darkseid being basically invincible I'm never sure how to take it.

There's a lot of evidence it's true that Darkseid is very, very powerful. But on the other hand, Darkseid's god-name is completely tied up in tyranny and despotism. He's required by everything in his nature to project an image of being more powerful than he actually is. However powerful he seems to be, he has to be somewhat weaker than that. His god-name requires acting like he's more powerful than he really is. How much weaker? I don't know; he still successfully does a lot of impressive things. Definitely weaker than OL thinks he is, though.

OG Darkseid was a relatively unimpressive individual with one good trick: omega beams. Every version since then has been really strong. That's... Not the sort of thing you want to test on-site.

LazySloth13 · 2025-05-23T17:52:41+0100

I hoping all this worry turns out to be for nothing similar to how Effigy and the growing Effigy Corp aren't bad guys trying to burn the various lanterns to death. Sure alot of ground work being laid is a bit shady but it's mostly due to how messed up the world/planet has gotten that the normal means of creating an organization tasked with observing and responding to dangerous situation isn't so clear cut.

PDV · 2025-05-23T18:42:10+0100

Mr Zoat said:
I shake my head. "If Darkseid turned his attention our way as we are now, there isn't much we could do about it anyway. Batman was at ground zero for the white light blast. He isn't Anti-Lifed or possessed or whatever. The… Broadcasters could be used to broadcast other ethereal… Ah. Things, if they were modified to do so, which is.. how the energy output and communications reaches the Peace Operatives."

Telling Lex & co this detail seems risky. I probably would as well, but nervously.

mossconfig · 2025-05-23T20:24:07+0100

I wonder if Paul's goal of acquiring a soul is being mirrored by transformers Pull trying to develop a spark?

Mr Zoat · 2025-05-23T21:54:17+0100

mossconfig said:
I wonder if Paul's goal of acquiring a soul is being mirrored by transformers Pull trying to develop a spark?

A spark is a tiny fragment of Primus. He's fairly sure that he's not compatible, and that while Primus might be able to change that, that would make him a transformer with no human body which isn't a strict upgrade.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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