Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic

[mishie]

But that's the thing we DO. NOT. HAVE any real data on most of the relatively low profile cases popping all around the globe. For starters, most of those cases live in areas of the planet where intensive research on every case, much less proper followup, is even feasible.

Most of the damage has been documented from serious cases, but you can't really say the proper research has been done on most of the cases that don't quite go that far, so we are in mostly unknown territory there and saying anything, one way or another, IS venturing guesses for the most part.

Are you really going to tell me with a straight face that most of the cases globally have been properly researched and followed to the point of formulating educated guesses on what will happen to the majority of them months, much less years, from now on, rather than being treated, then dispatched as soon as they get better with a mindset of "Welp, sure hope this is fine from here"? Come. On.



In that case we are all pretty much fucked no matter what. It's not a matter of if but when. Even the best of lockdowns can be extended only so far, a vaccine is still not a very clear option no matter what many may hope, and it's more or less generally agreed that even if we get one we all will get this before it's available, it's a matter of just not getting it all at the same time.

But if we can just get infected over and over in the meanwhile, every time further wearing you down, and this damn thing can win the attrition war against us? Game over, man, game over.

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See here's the core issue right. You're saying that we cannot make any assumptions about the future of covid whatsoever because we have so few cases that are exactly as lomg as you want. The thing that you're kinda ignoring is the fact that pneumonia isn't exactly a new thing, doctors and scientists have been studying all the weird and wonderful ways in which the human body, and lungs in particular can get fucked up, so even though the data for the long term effects of Covid19 is limited, there's an incredible amount known about how lungs work, how they recover after infection, and the different ways they can be damaged and how that effects tbat patient long term.

So yes, it is very much so reasonable to discus the long term effects in general of Covid19 at this stage, because unless it suddenly mutates and acts very differently, it is hilariously simple to assess a patients lungs via a routine chest xray, or if you're feeling fancy a HRCT chest, and to then use that information to plan ahead.

 

[OverMaster]

This isn't like any old pneumonia so your whole point is moot.

This is like profiling a serial killer based on a prior pocket-picker who just happened to operate in the same general area before.

 

[mishie]

This isn't like any old pneumonia so your whole point is moot.

This is like profiling a serial killer based on a prior pocket-picker who just happened to operate in the same general area before.

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Here's the thing right, you're kinda making it very clear that you have absolutely no medical knowledge or experience outside of what you've seen on wikipedia or the news. And as such all the shit you're saying is basically just completely useless opinions.

But if you actually knew anything at all about how this shit works, you might be aware of the fact that diseases don't just do random shit and have totally unpredictable effects on the human body. Hell, almost every single factor of the response to Covid19 was built upon previous knowledge, because we know how these types of diseases effect the lungs in general, thus allowing medical professionals who have training beyond looking up random news articles to make predictions based on the evidence that they have.

And right now the evidence that they have to work with is countless imaging studies and biopsies of both current and recovered patients of Covid19, as well as about a centuries worth of comparison studies from other diseases that target the lungs.

So yes, it is in fact possible to predict the long term effects of Covid19.

 

[Xicree]

So yes, it is in fact possible to predict the long term effects of Covid19.

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Literally THIS.

The main thing is that while we can't predict ALL of the long-term effects of Covid 19... we know more than enough about how diseases which affect the lungs work to understand those Specific long term effects.

... this really isn't that mysterious.

 

[OverMaster]

Here's the thing right, you're kinda making it very clear that you have absolutely no medical knowledge or experience outside of what you've seen on wikipedia or the news. And as such all the shit you're saying is basically just completely useless opinions.

But if you actually knew anything at all about how this shit works, you might be aware of the fact that diseases don't just do random shit and have totally unpredictable effects on the human body. Hell, almost every single factor of the response to Covid19 was built upon previous knowledge, because we know how these types of diseases effect the lungs in general, thus allowing medical professionals who have training beyond looking up random news articles to make predictions based on the evidence that they have.

And right now the evidence that they have to work with is countless imaging studies and biopsies of both current and recovered patients of Covid19, as well as about a centuries worth of comparison studies from other diseases that target the lungs.

So yes, it is in fact possible to predict the long term effects of Covid19.

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I bow to your superior medical knowledge, Dr. House.

Edit: "Countless", though? Fucking really? 'Countless'? Of the current virus? Please. We are just starting with this shit.

 

[mishie]

I bow to your superior medical knowledge, Dr. House.

Edit: "Countless", though? Fucking really? 'Countless'? Of the current virus? Please. We are just starting with this shit.

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Oh in that case, please point me towards a study done which shows a nice count up of every single investigation into a confirmed positive Covid19 patient. Because I really don't think you understand how fucking routine some of those are. Because I'd feel pretty confident in saying that almost every single patient that went to a hospital that was even SUSPECTED of having Covid19 got at the very least a chest xray, because holy fuck do doctors just love requesting those instead of having to think for themselves, and that's only a single type of investigation that will show a hell of a lot of information about lung condition.

 

[Cmdr_Anax]

so regarding the damage covid-19 can do... and the data we have right now... medical researchers are speaking more and more of a "multi-organ-virus"

attacks the hormonal system:
https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/doi/10.1210/jendso/bvaa082/5863314

is especially dangerous if you are diabetic, but can also cause diabetes in young ppl:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32339533/

attacks kidneys(study with 5500 covid patients):
https://www.kidney-international.org/article/S0085-2538(20)30532-9/pdf

can cause inflammatory syndrome in young children/adults:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMe2023158?articleTools=true

can attack the brain(stroke):
https://media.jamanetwork.com/news-...tients-with-covid-19-compared-with-influenza/

can wander through the nerves of the nose into the brain:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaotolaryngology/article-abstract/2767781
which can also damage your sense of smell and taste

most of this info is lifted from an article here:
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesells...chen-narben-der-corona-pandemie-16843184.html

it's in german... good concise writeup though

 

[OverMaster]

Then there's no salvation.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

Then there's no salvation.

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Would you just fucking stop with the doomer shite?

 

[MadGreenSon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeau...ch_covid19_spread_throughout_the_continental/

Go look at it, it's haunting



Edit: here

 

[bryanfran36]

You know, I thought that the things you see in a Marvel/DC comics were the stuff of writers getting their edge and political boners.

Or that some of the farfetched ideas and concepts were just that, farfetched ideas and concepts.

Looking at the six months of 2020, I feel like fiction was playing catch-up to the present reality which is unreal at the moment.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeau...ch_covid19_spread_throughout_the_continental/

Go look at it, it's haunting



Edit: here

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...pretty lights though.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

Kinda looks like my area beat the curve by actually staying home for like a month so far. Was bright at first but went to low purple at the end.

That's good news.

 

[G4R5vb5r3H]

So, according to local rumor, a nurse - of the 'care for old people sort' - just returned from Austria where she works/worked on the down low and decided to slip home despite being tested positively, and now over half the population of my hometown (and current residence) are lambasting the mayor for letting such an atrocity happen. Because of a single, unconfirmed case. They're criticising a person who had no knowledge of the event, nor any power to alter it.

At risk of sounding like an infectee: *WHEEZE*

In other news, I have started eating fried human skin - don't worry, it's my own - and have broken my daily *cough*self-gratification*cough* record at 39 times a day, so I'm handling it reasonably well, while also discovering why people bought so much toilet paper.

 

[litaispe]

The main thing is that while we can't predict ALL of the long-term effects of Covid 19... we know more than enough about how diseases which affect the lungs work to understand those Specific long term effects.

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There is a lot of uncertainty of how Covid-19 does things, but the health consequences are relatively straight forward (and how it affects individuals can be complex). What they are is horrifying.

One of the more troubling consequences is Covid-19 victims suffer from reduced oxygen absorption while retaining CO2 exhaling functionality. This is the "happy hypoxia" which is reasonably well documented now.

These low blood-oxygen levels, that if left untreated, results in systematic organ damage. Not to mention it appears to be clotting related so strokes in young apparently health individuals has been recorded.

Yes, not everyone is affected. Not everyone is impacted to a noticeable extent. But at the same time you can measure a 20% swing in violent crime before/after leaded fuel was introduced and abandoned with a ~26 year lead-time. We will be living with the consequences no matter how well or poorly it goes.

A vaccine can't come soon enough, or the 'new normal' of vastly reduced travel will be here to stay.

This isn't like any old pneumonia so your whole point is moot.

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Viral pneumonia is generally nasty stuff. +6 month recovery times are not uncommon.

 

[OverMaster]

Ayyyyyy, now Bolsonaro has it.

 

[ZuulV]

Comic Con Russia 2021 (would have been at Oct 1-4) is off.

/play Limp_Bizkit_Break_Stuff.mp3

 

[Aleh]

One of the more troubling consequences is Covid-19 victims suffer from reduced oxygen absorption while retaining CO2 exhaling functionality. This is the "happy hypoxia" which is reasonably well documented now.

These low blood-oxygen levels, that if left untreated, results in systematic organ damage. Not to mention it appears to be clotting related so strokes in young apparently health individuals has been recorded.

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There's some evidence (from autopsies) that this may be related to blood clots -- lots of little blood clots.

If that hypothesis is true, that would basically mean that people are dealing with rapid-fire mini-strokes, only throughout their bodies. Fun, isn't it?

And then there's the possibility of COVID acting like, say, chicken pox and pulling a shingles on us... in our brains.

 

[alethiophile]

It's worth keeping in mind, re: long term consequences, that the highly visible anecdotes of people with multi-month recovery times are still low-probability events. The majority of people who catch it are still asymptomatic or have non-life-threatening illness that resolves over several weeks. (At least, going off the information we have so far, which is still too limited to make high-certainty assertions.)

It's a bad disease by modern standards, but one shouldn't lose perspective.

 

[litaispe]

With Covid-19, what most people call "asymptomatic" isn't really the medical definition of an asymptomatic carrier. Even for supposedly mild cases, there is clinical reduction in lung function which has a detectable change in quality of life. People might be discharged after weeks, but full recovery can take significantly longer

No (obvious) symptoms, no problems is a profoundly dangerous way to look at a disease.

 

[ForestDweller]

Wow, this is scary.

 

[evildice]

Wow, this is scary.

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We're going to see a lot more like him in the USA, unfortunately, and for pretty much the same reasons.

Except they won't be receiving care in Serbia, so they'll be half-dead and also bankrupt if they survive.

 

[Ragnarok]

 

[ATP]

I live in Poland.Our goverment stop almost everything for a few weeks,and even now people still must do not made some things, but ,as a result,till now in 2020 died less people then in the same time in 2019.So,at least in Poland, Corona is not that dangerous,just some kind of worst flu.
P.S Sweden did practically nothing - and they are doing fine,too.

 

[evildice]

P.S Sweden did practically nothing - and they are doing fine,too.

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They weren't doing fine a few weeks ago.

What changed? How did they recover?

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

What changed? How did they recover?

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Genie *sage nod*

 

[mishie]

I live in Poland.Our goverment stop almost everything for a few weeks,and even now people still must do not made some things, but ,as a result,till now in 2020 died less people then in the same time in 2019.So,at least in Poland, Corona is not that dangerous,just some kind of worst flu.
P.S Sweden did practically nothing - and they are doing fine,too.

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Yknow it's funny when people bring up Sweden they never mention the part about how they did actually shut things down as well, but generally relied on a culture of responsibility to allow people to choose how much to distance for their own safety.

And then they ended up with something like double the cases and deaths compared to surrounding countries who did go into lockdown. And to really rub it in, they ended up with the same economic impact because yeah no shit people aren't going out even if they're allowed to because they don't want to kill granny.

Meanwhile in Australia, thanks to the fact that we shut down early and actually did it properly instead of bitching about it, almost all states are sitting at 0 new cases a day, with the major outlier being Victoria, which has been having huge spikes lately in their second wave of an entire 300 cases per day. Luckily thanks to the time given to prepare, we have extensive contract tracing in place, so instead of having to shut down the entire country or state, we have it narrowed down to a city/suburb level, and even to the point of specific buildings.

So what that means for me, is that right now the state that I'm in is in the final stages of reopening. So that means in the past week I've been able to travel to different cities to visit family, gone out to restaurants on dates, go to the gym, and basically just be back to normal.

Which is all kind of a shame, because I kind of miss how nice and peaceful things were back in the days of covid lockdown, it made for some really cruise workdays.

 

[Aleh]

Meanwhile in Australia, thanks to the fact that we shut down early and actually did it properly instead of bitching about it, almost all states are sitting at 0 new cases a day, with the major outlier being Victoria, which has been having huge spikes lately in their second wave of an entire 300 cases per day.

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I'm honestly surprised it's not New South Wales. The less said about some of the crap I've heard out of Northern Rivers, the better.

 

[NoFunposter]

I'm honestly surprised it's not New South Wales. The less said about some of the crap I've heard out of Northern Rivers, the better.

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Yeah, turns out that the security Victoria had on the quarantine hotels were literally the cheapest possible option and that they used fresh, untrained recruits to save money.

Apparently the security industry has a huge problem with doing this sort of thing, but people are only just giving it the attention now that things have been bungled so catastrophically.

I'm getting the feeling that our initial success has left many a bit overconfident.

 

[Aleh]

Yeah. I just had to reschedule my urgent cardiology appointment. Again.

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"Urgent appointment" means "you need to come into the office as soon as possible, because what happened might be something serious, and there's a significant risk of worse outcomes if this isn't checked out soon."

Moreover, this is a cardiology appointment -- meaning I'd be walking into an office that's dedicated to treating the sort of person who is most at risk of complications from COVID.

It's not that I can't get an appointment. I've actually gotten two. It's just that Mom has fucked both of them up.

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Edit: Thirdly, part of the issue is that we don't know what's going on. This isn't my first cardiology scare -- hence me having a cardiologist -- but I don't have a diagnosed heart condition. What I do know I have is several less-serious conditions that have an unfortunate tendency to look like a heart problem.

Obviously, this doesn't change the fact that I have to take incidents seriously, especially when they manifest in a new way, but it does change things a good bit on the health care provider side.

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Aaaaand my appointment got nixed again, this time due to insurance issues. As in, they no longer take it. This followed quite a bit of miscommunication, leading to me needing to drive an hour to a hospital, dodge people on my way to the penthouse office my (former) cardiologist is in, and then find out that they'd cancelled my appointment and given it to someone else after two months of me trying to get in (yes, there were phone calls involved -- I expected to have to pay out of network fees; they didn't take my insurance even then, and I had to leave to avoid possible other problems), and I still haven't had so much as an EKG.

Walking into a hospital building during this, however, was eerie as fuck. I avoided the ER, but pretty much everything had been diverted there. The place is usually pretty bustling, but now...