Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Venerable Ro]

That's not what giving to the Bureau would do though?

The Bureau and the Eclipse are separate institutions.

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Not if we're demonstrably better at their job while still doing our job to a magnificent standard...

 

[Shaper47]

Not if we're demonstrably better at their job while still doing our job to a magnificent standard...

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Doubtful.

Especially considering we don't want super death sun beams throw at us. So we can't really do their job anyways.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Doubtful.

Especially considering we don't want super death sun beams throw at us. So we can't really do their job anyways.

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And why should continuing to show our excellent dedication to Equestria result in death rays? We're doing what we were told to do, hunt the unseen enemies of Equestria. It just seems that there are more than Changelings to worry about.

 

[des-pair-2]

Mareinette has done us a favor – no, a charity – and it is only polite to extend that trust in turn. After all, she has been nothing but a gracious host since she has arrived.

I really want the latter of the two options to be a Bureau/Mareinette combination. To let her know that her presence is appreciated and to let others know we are back in business, stronger than ever. I think Merchant is best used for actions. I'm sure we can scrounge up three more actions to cover our bases twice.

 

[Venerable Ro]

So anyway, this is what I want to do.

I want to build on our reputation in the Bureau, make ourselves larger than life, establish a cult of personality if you will. Not to the point of aggrandizement, but to the point that our unquestioned devotion to Equestria, the Bureau, and our princess is something to be admired and imitated.

Laundering the Lores, perhaps even to master them with the Bureau's firm confidence in their Commissioner. It's a duty and a pleasure, watching the bounds, following in the hoofsteps of old Equestria, upholding the custodial legacy of the Lunar Princess.

To give an example, right now we've committed to having a security detail of ponies who are going to be extremely focused on keeping us in their sight at all times. From one perspective an inconvenience that gets in the way of our eldritch doings, from another perspective a trusted retinue, if we made the effort.

Imagine seeing summat like this as a Bureau option.
[]- You are in the habit of making enemies beyond what the average constable can be expected to handle, but your Bureau is anything but "average". Prepare the members of your security detail to face greater conflicts. (The members of your personal security detail will each gain at least a basic understanding of Edge, with luck perhaps one of them will discover a true gift.)

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Mareinette is the right call here, this is the turn she really started offering friendships to Velvet. And friendship is super important to get, it eliminates having to rebind her, and gain us more actions per turn which is the most valuable thing. Imaging getting 2 super social actions a turn, free max Heart, or Grail influence every turn.

Going from 1-2 respect points to 4-5 in a single turn with Mareinette will pay out big.

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I am not friending the foal-eating monster. She literally calls babies' toys bait. Also I'm simply unsure if she follows the traditional friendship track given her ultimate goal of getting Velvet to eat Silky.

I've come down somewhere similar. The one thing I will say about this:


It's claiming that next turn's Servants/Fluttercomet/(Rarity/Jade/Luna) actions are worth 100 bits.

I'll note it feels unlikely that those 3 AP, spent getting bits, would get 100 bits.

It's also not obvious what else we'll use those follower actions on.

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We use the follower actions to gain extra Velvet Actions to lock in and crush a turn.

I say we spike the noble and the murderer.

As the man said, "it's not about the money, it's about sending a message."

The message being, we are not dead, we are not infirm, and we are nowhere near done. So do not screw around with the Lunar Bureau. My favorite Hour is after all, The Colonel, similar to how Bird patrons The Wolf

The bribery I think can be resolved with a scare and a generous donation of manpower, graft being graft it's like being angry at water flowing downhill. You've just got to clean out the gutters on a regular basis.



There was also the time Velvet visited the family in Canterlot, she noticed Vellum following her on Steppes' orders, led him around for a while, and then snuck up on him in a maneuver that included hopping along a series of lampposts to drop down behind him in an alleyway so she could pull the "so what are we looking at?" prank.

Velvet is at a point where she can move through the civilian world pretty much at will, it would take a remarkable pony like Beyond Reproach to even really pick up on her. Moth/Knock 4 pretty much lets her embody the "carry a clipboard and act like you know where you're going" concept of social infiltration.

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Here here for some basic morality. And for showing the Sun Horse we can do things.

Ah, so we are getting close to Pinky levels of movement, got it.

Ugh, I'm having doubts about giving the Noble to the Bureau.

It kinda feels like a not-lose choice. Not the choice we make on the path to victory. When GLORY is right there.

Maybe we give the servant, and take Mareinette's choice…

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Nah, I don't feel like empowering the child devourer in exchange for additional shinies. And well, conspiring against the Crown is conspiring against not just Celestia, but Cadence and Selene too. Just ask the ashes of the Mansus just how merciful we are to such creatures. Take them down. Do not waver on this core trait for mere influence or wealth! Be as steel and scars, unyielding!

 

[Venerable Ro]

Hey I just had a great idea!

Luna wants an explanation on the Lores, Cadance and Shining really ought to get an explanation of the Lores, what if we turned an expedition into an educational field trip of sorts? Basically "here's an obstacle, here's how we're going to deal with it, and this is why that works."

I'd select the Canterlot expedition as a perfect opportunity, but that thing's a long expedition and I doubt we could monopolize 15 days of Cadance's time right now.

Alas, sadness.

The fact that I wanted to find a way to convince Cadence to finance that expedition so we could get it off the board does not, of course, factor into that sadness.

Where was I... Right, explanations. Any supernatural explanation really ought to involve all three royals at once, if only to avoid repeating ourselves.

 

[Steady Gaze]

Spoiler: Copyedits for Turn 20 - Results, part 2 and 3

@OurLadyOfWires copyedits for part 2 and 3. Unfortunately, for part 2, I inserted the quotes and then closed the tab thinking it was (auto)saved, but then got burned by all my corrections being deleted. I don't have the patience to comb through it again; I think there were maybe four more corrections missed.

Drummer Clap never really like foals.

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did like or liked

It certainly didn't help that she had been born in a farming community, at the tail-end of Equestria, where everypony was solely expected to put more food on the table and more foals on the world.

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in

It also did not help that she was the oldest of six siblings, and that her mother didn't just expect her to help raise her five younger siblings, but practically pushed those obligations on to her.

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onto (on to vs. onto)

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In fact, just yesterday, you spitted out a clot that you were sure was lodged inside your head for the longest time.

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The past tense of "spit" is "spat" or "spit" (American English).

This is a hoard of such currency."

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Probably "currency." or "currency".

Of course, Drummer is not taking her duties lightly. She remains a soldier and a guard, even if her current title is that of a "constable". And keeping ponies safe is something she takes very seriously. So serious, in fact, that it is the theme of her cutie mark.

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I wonder, what is Drummer Clap's cutie mark? Something that involves both drumming and guarding?

I'm thinking we get Bureau loyalty through one or more of the options, and then spend our next commissioner action on building a relationship with Midday Dew instead of having to spend every turn making progress on getting the Bureau loyal. Eclipse is on the cusp of discovering the lores, and we need to come to some kind of understanding if we want to influence the path their research takes. Bringing up something Venerable Ro pointed out:

Ultimately I foresee a conflict in jurisdiction between the Lunar Bureau and Eclipse regarding the Lores, we're somewhat aided by their presumed myopic focus on Lantern, but disadvantaged by their head start. We need to get a move on or Midday will have too good of an argument for monopolizing any and all eldritch information/assets

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Actually, I thought of a truly evil plan: cast Path Through Nightmares on Celestia so that she becomes a A Poor Lunatic and let Luna ascend to the throne, putting us in charge by proxy and eliminating all our problems, except for a major secret/blackmail vulnerability. But Luna has no Lantern levels, right?

As for my actual votes, I would say we get bits from the merchant, because the other rewards are relatively low impact, and Bureau loyalty from the noble, which will effectively save a bunch (3?) of commissioner actions. The public servant I'm not sure about: I could go servant actions to balance out the other two, or get more Bureau loyalty, or let Mareinette take this one. A pity this doesn't appear to be a plan vote, because there might be a little coordination needed.

I think we should also consider auctioning off some of our artifacts. We will never get to studying all of them (we don't have enough AP to go around), so we may as well use them to generate bits.

 

[spiderhellian]

A pity this doesn't appear to be a plan vote, because there might be a little coordination needed.

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It is a plan vote.

Vote in plans. You must pick one option of each blackmail target.

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[Venerable Ro]

Oh, I hadn't noticed this.

@OurLadyOfWires is this intended?

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Seems to me like three approval votes nailed together, the most popular option for each section wins.

 

[spiderhellian]

We use the follower actions to gain extra Velvet Actions to lock in and crush a turn.

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Yeah, doing it with merchant vs public servant is 3 actions for 100 bits, that's what I was discussing.

Also I'm simply unsure if she follows the traditional friendship track given her ultimate goal of getting Velvet to eat Silky.

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For what it's worth we've been ~told her sacrament will make her our friend. No Silky involved.

 

[Steady Gaze]

It is a plan vote.

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Hmm, I missed that.

 

[Greymere]

So Plan!

Merchant - Extort for 100 Bits
Assassin - Extort for 5 Follower Actions (2 Velvet Actions)
Noble - Bureau / Mareinette

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Tbh, this sounds good to me, with preference toward giving the noble to the Bureau, both because a) I don't want even more conspirators against the Crown running about and b) I'm still hoping that enough Bureau loyalty can get us to the point where we can reveal Luna to them without Celestia finding out. Plus w/ the risk of the manuscripts, having a loyalty buffer could only be a good thing. And if they somehow don't end up being a problem, those are commissioner actions we can instead use for doing things like socialling Midday Dew or Fair Trial, or accompanying our agents on their actions.

Edit: Alternatively, the AP options for both merchant + public Servant (gets us to the +3 Velvet AP w/ only Servant + Fluttershy spent), or Mareinette on the merchant and AP for the public servant. Because big loyalty boost an essentially free +2 Velvet AP are too good to pass up imo, but the merchant's options aren't as valuable (Rarity, for instance, can get us 100+ bits w/ her commission action, and which should only get better once she's Grail 4) so I'd be willing to see what kind of shenanigans Mareinette could get up to w/ the merchant.

 

[Zxzx24]

Books!!!

We want Heart 3, Heart 4 and Forge 4 Books.

Raising our lore is probably important (or at least helpful) in reaching Glory.

It would allow us to do our personal Forge Sacrament sooner. Paying for and being able to shell out for high level Reagents instead over multiple lower level ones.

Be a good friend to Jade and take her with us on an adventure with Selene and DoV.

Also if we want to pay Biedde.

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Do books help us find the outsider...? And climb?

 

[Rafuki22]

I'm thinking about voting these.

-[] What of the merchant, who engaged in bribery?
--[] Ask for a small "donation" (gain 100 bits)

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-[] What of the public servant, who needed a pony to "disappear"?
--[] Have Mareinette deal with it (unpredictable result, that will still benefit you)

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-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Put him behind bars, where he belongs (gain a great deal of respect from the Bureau)

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But they all seem to have potentially good benefits.

 

[Greymere]

Right, so. Since I know I'm not likely to be awake when the vote actually opens and I don't think I'm likely to change my mind too much from my current 'would be acceptables', I'll just leave my plan ideas here for later

[] Plan: Loyalty and Greater AP
-[] What of the merchant, who engaged in bribery?
--[] Ask for a few favors (gain TWO "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
-[] What of the public servant, who needed a pony to "disappear"?
--[] Have him work for his misdeeds (gain FIVE "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Put him behind bars, where he belongs (gain a great deal of respect from the Bureau)

Big chunk of Bureau loyalty, plus enough extra servant AP to get us to +3 Velvet AP while only spending Fluttershy/Comet + personal servants AP to get it, leaving the majority of our follower AP free to be used in useful things. This one is my personal highest preference, because Velvet AP is very, very valuable and there's always lot of things we can do with it. Especially considering all those artifacts (and singular book) we've just acquired.

[] Plan: Loyalty, AP, and a Lesser Shenanigan
-[] What of the merchant, who engaged in bribery?
--[] Have Mareinette deal with it (unpredictable result, that will still benefit you)
-[] What of the public servant, who needed a pony to "disappear"?
--[] Have him work for his misdeeds (gain FIVE "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Put him behind bars, where he belongs (gain a great deal of respect from the Bureau)

Still big loyalty gain, but means that it would eat more follower AP out of our own pool to reach +3 Velvet AP in exchange for the Mareinette mystery box on the merchant.

 

[Pittauro]

ok, A few thoughts about our current situation before I catch up on the discussion in the thread

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This expedition took 3 days, 1 Name action (Biedde) and 75 bits.

It got us

1) blackmail worth 700 bits (if we took only bits), 16 servant actions (14 servant actions = 4 velvet actions), Extra loyalty from the bureau, or mystery boxes)

2) an expedition site book

3) Artifacts collectively worth... 750 bits I think (50*3 + 200 + 400).

For a net gain of 1450-75=1375 bits (and the book, which I'm not estimating).

We really need to do more expeditions, even if this one was likely an outlier.

AND we need to study at least the lvl 4 artifacts. Ideally the lvl 3 and 2 ones too. Lvl 1s can wait I suppose.

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we have

two lvl 4 artifacts (Winter, Lantern)
one lvl 3 (Moth)
one lvl 2 (Knock).

That's 4 artifacts, or two actions to try and study all four of them.

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We also have

one lvl 5 moth book

one lvl 5 knock book

one "not-lore-probably-expedition" book

we're about to get a lvl 6 book for Baldomare

We'll likely leave the lvl 6 book untouched. Maybe a lvl 5 book too.

That means we still want ONE action to study a lvl 5 book, the expedition book, and then either the other lvl5 book (if we feel confident in not keeping one in reserve) one one of the low level books (at least it will fill the lvl 1 slot in the Library for the future. Might be worth checking if it can push up the level in one lore combined with everything else we can research).

Another reminder: Artifacts CAN boost the Secret Library, if we're NOT using them for the whole month AND they've been studied, if I remember right.

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We have two potential expedition sites.

Tall Tales: 80 bits per pony (we'll likely get some back) and 1 action from all followers (2 from leader)

Canterlot part 3: 120 bits per pony sent (we'll again likely get some back) and 2 actions from all followers (3 from leaders).

They'd keep our Names busy, but they're still probably worth it.

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We have LOTS of stuff to do in general, so servant actions are of decent value. Though probably 9 are more than enough (2+3+4= 9 servant for 3 velvet actions).

I don't think the cost for a fourth one is worth it compared to bits or respect.

Current Follower actions:

Rarity: 1
Jade Whistle: 1
Fluttershy/Comet: 1
Baldomare: 1
Mareinette: 1
Velvet Axe: 1
Biedde: 1
Selene: 2
Household servants: 1

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of them I think we have better things than Cover your bases for... Anyone except MAYBE Fluttershy/Comet and Servants.

So I think we could use those 2 for Cover your bases. Which means we don't really NEED more than 7 or 8 Servant actions from the blackmail. More than that is just unnecessary.

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in terms of bits we'll need in the next few turns...

we earn something like 160 (wage) +around 50 (Rarity) + Commission (>100 bits every 2 or 3 turns).

We MIGHT need to resummon Axe if we fail the sacrament: 50 bits (and reagents if necessary).

We need to pay Biedde every turn after the first three (60 bits per turn. 100 over 3 turns if we want to save money and are willing to give him up for ONE turn).

We also need money for reagents (unknown, but let's call it 20 bits per turn on average for a lvl 2 reagent each time?), summoning Mares in the Light (55 bits each, probably 60 if not done by Velvet) (once we get a good location for it), scrying rituals (30 bits, probably 35 if not done by Velvet), Redemption of the Forge (20 bits),

over the next... let's call it 6 turns, that's likely to be something like... 300 bits for Biedde, 180 bits for Reagents, 155 bits for 3 Mares in the Light, 150 bits for 5 scrying rituals, and 40 bits for a couple Redemption of the Forge (Velvet and Shining).

Also let's say we do both expeditions with 3 ponies on them each, that's another 240 + 360 = 600 bits (we'll likely get nearly half of it back, but we still need to have them to start the expeditions, I'll count 300 bits used though just in case.

Total Expected Costs over 6 turns: 1125 bits

It could easily be more between wanting to do more rituals, forge or winter sacrament costing bits, more expeditions, buying books, or who knows what.


Likely earnings over 6 turns:

160*6 = 960 bits from wages
50*60 = 300 bits from Rarity
110*2 = 220 bits (could easily be more) from Rarity Commissions

TOTAL ESTIMATED EARNINGS OVER 6 TURNS: 1480 bits. Could be more if we find bits as loot at some point, OR if we started selling artifacts or books maybe (probably through Uncle Steppes).

...uh. That's better than I expected. Anyone disagrees with these (admittedly very vague and unreliable) estimates?

If they're even just semi-accurate it looks to me like we don't really need THAT many Bits from the blackmail. We could get 2+3=5 actions from the first two, and put the third one in Jail for the Respect Boost (or try the Mareinette Mistery Box for some)

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and now on to actually read the thread discussion...

 

[spiderhellian]

50*60 = 300 bits from Rarity

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Likely earnings over 6 turns:

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@Pittauro you're not factoring in the way commissions put a damper on Rarity's earning. I also think 6 turns is a lot to look ahead, and it's more the next few where we may indeed run into bits trouble. My math is below.

T21 start: 276 bits.
T21 expenses: 40 (Forge 3 reagent) + 20 (FR) + extend Biedde (60)
T21 end: 156 bits.

T22 start: 156 + 160 + ~50 = 366.
T22 expenses: 360 (BtRC). Which doesn't leave us enough to extend Biedde . Though we should be able to get a commission in here.

We could maybe squeeze it in, but it's not leaving any flexibility or chance for other expenditures (Shining FR, scrying rituals, Heart 3 books, other expeditions).

So yeah, if we want to do BtRC with 3 people turn after next we probably need at least 100 bits. Unless we commit to having basically no other expenditures.

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[Greymere]

@Pittauro you're not factoring in the way commissions put a damper on Rarity's earning. I also think 6 turns is a lot to look ahead, and it's more the next few where we may indeed run into bits trouble. My math is below.

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Your math also assumes that we're doing BTRC on T22 which isn't actually necessary. It's not like it's something that we NEED the bits for by T22 Or Else the way that we need to meet the Name refresh requirements. We can just... do BtRC on T23 instead.

 

[spiderhellian]

Your math also assumes that we're doing BTRC on T22 which isn't actually necessary. It's not like it's something that we NEED the bits for by T22 Or Else the way that we need to meet the Name refresh requirements. We can just... do BtRC on T23 instead.

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Yep, this is true. (I was clear it was conditional!)

But given Pittauro's points about how good expeditions can be, I would like to do it soon.

 

[Zxzx24]

I dislike mareinette on principal. And in practice. I would be ecstatic to make her disappear forever.

She did aid our recovery greatly however. For no benefit. And she has been a loyal and helpful ally.

I'm going to vote to give her the lot of them. I believe she will be able to do more with them than we will. We don't need them as far as I can tell, and to be blunt we owe her.

 

[Pittauro]

So I love bits. I loooooooooove bits. I still think of those 500 bits we turned down sometimes, and a tear comes to my eye.

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Come on, we got around 150 bits of that back from Rarity's higher share and commission! It's not THAT bad!

But thinking about it, what do we need them for immediately?

Next turn we have 40+20=60 bits for the Forge ritual. And that's it. I'd love a MitL, but doubtful we get that next turn, and even then it's only 55 bits?

The only big expense coming up is BtRC pt.3, which is 240 (DoA + Velvet)... I guess if we want a 3rd person on it (Mareinette)?

With 160 income, and Rarity, and the possibility of a commission... I kinda think we're okay?

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well, also the turn's reagents, and probably a scrying ritual or two? So something like 45 (lvl 3 reagent)+35*2 (2 scrying rituals)+20 (redemption of the forge ritual)= 135 bits at worst I think.

Still we should have enough bits

I don't think we'll be able to afford Canterlot part 3 next turn, but we probably could in a turn or two. We also likely will get back a LOT of the bits we'll invest in it, assuming we send the right Names after scrying the obstacles.

Thus far I think we ALWAYS took 3 days to complete 5-days expeditions. I'm assuming we'll do similarly well on higher rank expeditions, so Medium will likely be 6 days and Long will likely be 9 days. Or, in other words, MEDIUM will likely be 48 bits per pony instead of 32, and LONG will be 72 bits per pony instead of 120 (though we still need to give them the full amount first, just in case)

Two Sacrament actions sound safe enough. On the general side I think 6 actions for next turn should be enough(4 regular+2 covered)if we don't have anything for the Constables then 7.

Also please consider using 1 Selene AP and letting Jade do her special research... we might need it.

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Better safe than sorry. We put 3, and if it takes LESS than 3 then we just have Velvet do something else, like study our artifacts or books, do SH Sacrament (if she has the SH Influence up), Mansus exploration, or anything we judge worth doing in general

I want to bring Jade and Selene.

Jade because it will be good for her and Selene because of the hints her old mentor made the place.

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not worth it. with costs so high we mostly want to send the essential Names. That's basically one of Mareinette or Axe (highest General Bonuses), and then one or two Names with the most relevant lores.

Jade is pointless on expeditions compared to the Names. If you need to send her on one, at least send her on easy short ones like the Grave book 6 one.

...Selene is actually pretty good giving +20 and rerolls on four lores (well, three not counting edge) and being a good fighter, BUT only after her training is complete, so from turn 22 onwards. And depending on the obstacles Names might be better.

Also, if I stop memeing for an instant I would also wish to lock up the guy making a pony disappear. I don't like murder, I don't like people getting away with it either. Self-defense and war are different, obviously.

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Ideally I agree, but compared to the traitor noble and all the fires we have to put down it's basically beneath our attention.

Also for the bits you have to consider Biedde. If people want to pay him, well 600 bits only lasts 10 turns.

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there's the alternative of paying him 100 bits for 1 turn of downtime and 2 turns active. so over 6 turns (for example) it would cost us only 200 bits instead of 360.

Of course we're losing his two actions (guard + our choice), and the chance to use him on short expeditions for that turn. And It's easy to argue that 2 Biedde actions (even if one has to be guarding) are worth 60 bits. Worst case it's an Edge lesson, which at lvl 5 is basically worth (book equivalent) 120 bits (though we don't get a manuscript out of it).

T21 start: 276 bits.
T21 expenses: 40 (Forge 3 reagent) + 20 (FR) + extend Biedde (60)
T21 end: 156 bits.

T22 start: 156 + 160 + ~50 = 366.
T22 expenses: 360 (BtRC). Which doesn't leave us enough to extend Biedde . Though we should be able to get a commission in here.

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tier 3 reagent is 45 bits. it goes 5-20-45-80 for lvl 1-2-3-4

and yeah, we should DEFINITELY do commission next turn.

So Plan!

Merchant - Extort for 100 Bits
Assassin - Extort for 5 Follower Actions (2 Velvet Actions)
Noble - Bureau / Mareinette

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I'd be fine with this. Though we could also get 2 actions from Merchant, and that way we get 2+5= 7. add Servants and another follower and we can get THREE Velvet actions.

I think I'd take the bits only if we actually plan to do Tall Tale or Canterlot part 3 in the next two turns (and even then we MIGHT be able to do one of the two anyway with Rarity's commission).

It's claiming that next turn's Servants/Fluttercomet/(Rarity/Jade/Luna) actions are worth 100 bits.

I'll note it feels unlikely that those 3 AP, spent getting bits, would get 100 bits.

It's also not obvious what else we'll use those follower actions on.

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Rarity: Commission and her job, for the most part. if we alternated she could take a commission every 2 turns basically. Just go "commission-job-commission".

Jade is valuable for scrying. We can scry Windigoes, Neighnia, artifacts/expedition sites, ritual sites... Though of course the hardest targets are better done by Baldomare.

Luna... ok, Luna is a good all-rounder but we MIGHT actually be able to spare one of her actions after her training is done.


Side note: We still have never used Baldomare's special action of "give her 100+ bits, get something nice".

If we get bits now it might be worth testing it the moment we don't need her to scry, teach us or give us influences.

Yeah this is valid. Though Rarity AP is more like 60-80 bits — a commission lowers our bit income for the next few turns as well.

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Turn 19: 55 contract + 119 commission

Turn 20: 45 from contract.

it didn't go down THAT much.

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uh... I had a thought.

What if the reward from Mareinette is basically "an invitation to dinner" using the pony we give to her?

It would basically be a "free" Grail Sacrament, on a (mostly) guilt-free target.

@OurLadyOfWires any comment on how likely this is?

For me, the Noble goes either to the Bureau or Mareinette. Both are fine in my book.

One is reinforcing our standing with the Bureau and helping cover some of our hiccup with not being super forthrite with the whole attack and all that jazz.
One is offering kindness to Mareinette after the kindness she herself has offered, and even in getting us this opportunity.

Past that, and for the other two, as long as one of them goes into juicing our actions, and the other bits, I'm content.

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I mostly agree.

MECHANICALLY I'd be fine with the bits or actions, but narratively it's basically letting them off scot-free, which I disagree with.

Mareinette... we're probably giving them a fate worse than death, but it will likely keep Mareinette happy AND benefit us...

I am not friending the foal-eating monster. She literally calls babies' toys bait. Also I'm simply unsure if she follows the traditional friendship track given her ultimate goal of getting Velvet to eat Silky.

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I think the only possible way to "befriend" Mareinette, short of somehow hitting her with the elements of Harmony and them being so OP they can undo the Crime of the Sky's consequences (unlikely, though not impossible) would be to basically... give her acceptable targets.

A compromise, sort of. A bit like replacing real meat with fake/lab-grown meat in your diet, we nudge her away from targeting children into targeting criminals.

IF we want to go for Mareinette, this is the only way I can see it working, short of just closing our eyes and pretending we don't see what she does.

and IF we want to go down this route, then giving her something now is probably a good idea, and the noble is the most "deserving" of her attentions right now.

Luna wants an explanation on the Lores, Cadance and Shining really ought to get an explanation of the Lores, what if we turned an expedition into an educational field trip of sorts? Basically "here's an obstacle, here's how we're going to deal with it, and this is why that works."

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This sounds a lot like "here, to explain how nuclear physics work your current task will be to assist me in building a fusion reactor. No, you don't need to study first".

Just too much.

I think we should also consider auctioning off some of our artifacts. We will never get to studying all of them (we don't have enough AP to go around), so we may as well use them to generate bits.

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I think we can't sell them without studying them first, as we don't know what they do so can't advertise them properly.

And right now if we wanted to research anything we'd want to research the high level ones first.

Right, so. Since I know I'm not likely to be awake when the vote actually opens and I don't think I'm likely to change my mind too much from my current 'would be acceptables', I'll just leave my plan ideas here for later

[] Plan: Loyalty and Greater AP
-[] What of the merchant, who engaged in bribery?
--[] Ask for a few favors (gain TWO "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
-[] What of the public servant, who needed a pony to "disappear"?
--[] Have him work for his misdeeds (gain FIVE "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Put him behind bars, where he belongs (gain a great deal of respect from the Bureau)

Big chunk of Bureau loyalty, plus enough extra servant AP to get us to +3 Velvet AP while only spending Fluttershy/Comet + personal servants AP to get it, leaving the majority of our follower AP free to be used in useful things. This one is my personal highest preference, because Velvet AP is very, very valuable and there's always lot of things we can do with it. Especially considering all those artifacts (and singular book) we've just acquired.

[] Plan: Loyalty, AP, and a Lesser Shenanigan
-[] What of the merchant, who engaged in bribery?
--[] Have Mareinette deal with it (unpredictable result, that will still benefit you)
-[] What of the public servant, who needed a pony to "disappear"?
--[] Have him work for his misdeeds (gain FIVE "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Put him behind bars, where he belongs (gain a great deal of respect from the Bureau)

Still big loyalty gain, but means that it would eat more follower AP out of our own pool to reach +3 Velvet AP in exchange for the Mareinette mystery box on the merchant.

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both are good to me.

I'm also potentially willing to consider

Mercant: Mareinette
Public Servant: 5 actions
Noble: Mareinette.

I think we need AT LEAST the 5 servant (2 velvet) actions, which we can potentially raise to 3 velvet actions if we can spare Servants, FlutterComet and another 2 follower actions (Selene and Jade for example).

MAYBE I could accept 2 servant actions, and then we use Servants, Fluttercomet and Selene/Jade for 2 Velvet actions, but that's the bare minimum.


...So, at least on of Merchant or Public Servant on Actions, the other 2 I'm more willing to discuss. Mareinette is intriguing, Bits could allow us to do more stuff, and Bureau Loyalty could make things simpler if We ever end up doing something like introducing Luna to them or covertly introduce lores and so on.

Your math also assumes that we're doing BTRC on T22 which isn't actually necessary. It's not like it's something that we NEED the bits for by T22 Or Else the way that we need to meet the Name refresh requirements. We can just... do BtRC on T23 instead.

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This, and also there's the commission, or even the possibility of studying some artifacts and then selling ones we don't care about to our Uncle to sell at the Auction maybe.

a single lvl 3 artifact costs us 200 bits to buy, normally. The level 1s should be worth 50 bits. Auction could give more or less, probably partly dependent on a roll (in the game selling items gave somewhat variable returns, right?)

so a thing we could do if we really need money is to study more artifacts and then consider if we want to sell one or more of them.

mh... Are 100 bits worth 1 Velvet actions? I'm leaning no usually. Velvet can study two lvl 1 artifacts for that, and then she could sell them if the effect is not particularly useful to us.

I dislike mareinette on principal. And in practice. I would be ecstatic to make her disappear forever.

She did aid our recovery greatly however. For no benefit. And she has been a loyal and helpful ally.

I'm going to vote to give her the lot of them. I believe she will be able to do more with them than we will. We don't need them as far as I can tell, and to be blunt we owe her.

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I think we need to keep AT LEAST one of the first two for the 2 or 5 actions considering how packed our next turn's schedule is going to be, but I'm willing to consider giving her the other two.



T21 EXPECTED ACTIONS:

3 Axe Knock Sacraments
1 Study lvl 4 artifacts
1 Teach Selene
1 Redemption of the Forge on Velvet.
1 Fleeting Opportunity (I'm confident there will be at least one we're not willing to give up on)
MAYBE 1 study books, possibly if Knock Sacrament takes less actions than expected (expedition book, Moth 5 book so we're ready to Sacrament, and a filler book if first two succeed)
MAYBE 1 Moth Sacrament action (If we have both Moth 4/4 and the confidant to give up).

That's a minimum of 7 actions, 9 if I take everything I want.

Velvet has 4 actions. If we get 5 servant actions from Public Servant, and then give up Fluttercomet, House Servants, and a mix of Selene/Jade/Biedde, that's 9 servant = 3 Velvet actions.

Enough for my minimum list.

 

[spiderhellian]

Mareinette... we're probably giving them a fate worse than death, but it will likely keep Mareinette happy AND benefit us...

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…We're not feeding them to Mareinette.

We're trusting her to get the most value out of the blackmail material. You generally can't get value out of blackmail by eating people.

I think the only possible way to "befriend" Mareinette is…

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The Grail sacrament option on extending her bindings literally said "Make a friend"!!

Why do you think making her a friend will require more than the sacrament?

A bad action, to be sure, but not to the level some people are making befriending her out to be.

 

[Pittauro]

The Grail sacrament option on extending her bindings literally said "Make a friend"!!

Why do you think making her a friend will require more than the sacrament?

A bad action, to be sure, but not to the level some people are making befriending her out to be.

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Friends try to Hel their friends and make them happy.

Do you think that after taking her sacrament, if after that we stopped her from doing ANYTHING she'd consider "fun", she'd STAY our friend forever?


At some point, friend or no friend, she'll want to do something morally questionable, and friends compromise when they have differing opinions.

But that's I'm BOTH directions.

 

[Sveta08]

What if the reward from Mareinette is basically "an invitation to dinner" using the pony we give to her

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Huh.

... Before I think more on that,
Can we snag Grail up to four scraps for next turn, if that's the case?

 

[spiderhellian]

Friends try to Hel their friends and make them happy.

Do you think that after taking her sacrament, if after that we stopped her from doing ANYTHING she'd consider "fun", she'd STAY our friend forever?

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I'm sorry, but this is inconsistent.

Are we worrying about what DoA will ask next once we befriend her? Are we worrying about what Baldomare will want next after we befriend her?

I get that Mareinette is unique, and maybe her friendship is unique too. But I think it's a pretty bold assertion, and should not be what we assume.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Good morning. I hope you are all doing well!

There is a non-inconsiderable chance I'll work on the next update today. Gonna figure out exactly where to slot in Sveta's omake, and run through Velvet's social actions.

But for now,

@OurLadyOfWires I know this isn't really something to sort out now, but would it be feasible to have a Baldomare take an action akin to: "Tell me something I already know about these peculiar objects (Learn the properties of 4 artefacts of Level (YOUR LORE LEVEL-1) or below. No scraps will be gained."?

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Not impossible, but also not something to be decided right now.

@OurLadyOfWires , can we go beyond +3 Velvet Actions from covering our bases?

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Yes. "Cover your bases" can scale "infinitely" as far as I'm concerned. Because it will be very unlikely that you end up having 30 follower actions at any point.

So, for convenience, I'll put the numbers here.

(The scaling is that "the cost increases by one per extra action")
(And remember, you can only pick ONE of these options, so don't try to be sneaky with "I pick the 2 cost action AND the 5 cost action, for a total of +3 extra Velvet actions)

-1 extra Velvet action for 2 Follower actions
-2 extra Velvet action for 5 Follower actions
-3 extra Velvet action for 9 Follower actions
-4 extra Velvet action for 14 Follower actions
-5 extra Velvet action for 20 Follower actions
-6 extra Velvet action for 27 Follower actions
-7 extra Velvet action for 35 Follower actions
-etc

@OurLadyOfWires copyedits for part 2 and 3

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Thank you! I'll run over them later.

uh... I had a thought.

What if the reward from Mareinette is basically "an invitation to dinner" using the pony we give to her?

It would basically be a "free" Grail Sacrament, on a (mostly) guilt-free target.

@OurLadyOfWires any comment on how likely this is?

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No. I won't force you into a Sacrament without you clearly saying you want to do it.

We're trusting her to get the most value out of the blackmail material. You generally can't get value out of blackmail by eating people.

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Spiderhellian has the right of it.

The Mareinette options are not a way to "reward" her. In fact, some of you could even interpret it as "giving her more errands to run" and that SHE is the one who is graciously doing it without using any of her AP.

The narrative is that she will get the blackmail material, and accept your order of "go nuts". The mechanic is that, as Spiderhellian said, she will try to extract value out of them in another way that is not listed in the options.

Is this a show of trust from you? Yes. But not the "progressing friendship bar" kind of trust.

You already know how to tie the knot.



That seems to be it. See you all later! And have a great day.

 

[Sveta08]

The Mareinette options are not a way to "reward" her. In fact, some of you could even interpret it as "giving her more errands to run" and that SHE is the one who is graciously doing it without using any of her AP.

The narrative is that she will get the blackmail material, and accept your order of "go nuts". The mechanic is that, as Spiderhellian said, she will try to extract value out of them in another way that is not listed in the options.

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I see! Thank you for the clarification.

In that case, I will consider it a long the lines of Time, Money, Respect, and Glory. As, of them, I feel only giving Mareinnete reigns for it will potentially result in lore. That being the case... I'll put my plans up.


Plan: For Crown
-[] What of the merchant, who engaged in bribery?
--[] Ask for a few favors (gain TWO "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
-[] What of the public servant, who needed a pony to "disappear"?
--[] Remind him that nothing is free (gain 200 bits)
-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Put him behind bars, where he belongs (gain a great deal of respect from the Bureau)



Plan: For Glory
-[] What of the merchant, who engaged in bribery?
--[] Ask for a few favors (gain TWO "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
-[] What of the public servant, who needed a pony to "disappear"?
--[] Remind him that nothing is free (gain 200 bits)
-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Have Mareinette deal with it (unpredictable result, that will still benefit you)




Explainer: with Flutters and Servants, we are one action from getting two Velvet actions with this plan. Bits for the coming problems to be. And then either Respect or Mareinnete.
If people prefer the public servant behind bars, I won't fight you on it. The bit hungry are ever ravenous.

 

[spiderhellian]

For reference—

You already know how to tie the knot.

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[-] Accept her "Invitation to Dinner"
-"Tie the knot. Make a friend."
-This option will always be available, and will never increase in price.
-This is Mareinette's Grail Sacrament.

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We can argue about whether we want to do that Sacrament or if we think we can win in the next ~6 turns. But we shouldn't pretend her friendship involves anything other than what's been clearly stated.

 

[Pittauro]

Huh.

... Before I think more on that,
Can we snag Grail up to four scraps for next turn, if that's the case?

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keep in mind it's just a baseless guess on my part, but in any case we don't NEED the 4 scraps.

UNLESS it's specified otherwise, we can get the sacrament at any point once we're lvl 4, and have it count for the eventual lvl up. I imagine we only get the power once we reach lvl 5 for real though.

See, for example

GRAIL
Actions of your own: "You have always been terrified that they would leave you. But now? Now you can make sure that they never will."
-At any point in time, have three ponies in your contact list with whom you have a Minion (or Minion-equivalent) social bond.
-With those three ponies in tow, perform "The Act".
-Velvet Covers may refuse to use certain ponies for this action (they will be listed here)
-You must reach 4/4 scraps of Grail before taking this action.

Mareinette's Invitation: "[Grail]!" (There are bounties and resources available in the bodies of every pony. But first, one must develop the appropriate organs to harvest them. She will teach you.)
-Pick a Prisoner, or a character you have a "Minion-level" relationship with, and perform an action dedicated to "An invitation to dinner".
-"An invitation to dinner" cannot fail, but it will destroy your selected contact/prisoner without leaving a corpse.

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Personal: you must reach 4/4 first.

Mareinette: nothing required.

For another example Personal Edge (kill worthy opponent) requires 3/4, while Biedde (try to wound Biedde) requires 4/4 as a prerequisite.

I'm sorry, but this is inconsistent.

Are we worrying about what DoA will ask next once we befriend her? Are we worrying about what Baldomare will want next after we befriend her?

I get that Mareinette is unique, and maybe her friendship is unique too. But I think it's a pretty bold assertion, and should not be what we assume.

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Look, if I had a vegan friend I wouldn't stop eating Meat just because they ask, I think. I imagine it works similarly with Mareinette.

Not impossible, but also not something to be decided right now.

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yeah, a way to research the lower level artifacts faster would be appreciated. Books we can eventually just write Manuscripts so it doesn't matter much.

Yes. "Cover your bases" can scale "infinitely" as far as I'm concerned. Because it will be very unlikely that you end up having 30 follower actions at any point.

So, for convenience, I'll put the numbers here.

(The scaling is that "the cost increases by one per extra action")
(And remember, you can only pick ONE of these options, so don't try to be sneaky with "I pick the 2 cost action AND the 5 cost action, for a total of +3 extra Velvet actions)

-1 extra Velvet action for 2 Follower actions
-2 extra Velvet action for 5 Follower actions
-3 extra Velvet action for 9 Follower actions
-4 extra Velvet action for 14 Follower actions
-5 extra Velvet action for 20 Follower actions
-6 extra Velvet action for 27 Follower actions
-7 extra Velvet action for 35 Follower actions
-etc

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YOu know, I just realized we might want to become head of our noble house and/or a Princess of Equestria.

Just give us 35 follower actions and triple our APs.

...And now I'm imagining what that would look like. Servants cooking, cleaning, dressing us, doing groceries, standing in line for us, organizing our agenda, making sure we don't waste a SECOND of our time all day, every day...

No. I won't force you into a Sacrament without you clearly saying you want to do it.

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Fair enough.

Maybe if we had a prison the reword could have been "a prisoner", but Velvet hasn't really prepared for that NOR has she shown much inclination for prisoners to use in any way.

Spiderhellian has the right of it.

The Mareinette options are not a way to "reward" her. In fact, some of you could even interpret it as "giving her more errands to run" and that SHE is the one who is graciously doing it without using any of her AP.

The narrative is that she will get the blackmail material, and accept your order of "go nuts". The mechanic is that, as Spiderhellian said, she will try to extract value out of them in another way that is not listed in the options.

Is this a show of trust from you? Yes. But not the "progressing friendship bar" kind of trust.

You already know how to tie the knot.

Click to shrink...

mh... to be fair, as long as we don't care what happens to those guys (and we mostly don't care), Mareinette is likely to be able to get far more than what we could conventionally. She IS a Name of Grail after all.

I could see her getting us MINIONS out of those guys, for example.

If for example she got us 3 Minions, at a bare minimum those are 3 actions per turn we could trade to cover your bases. We can easily use another 2 of our followers to get +2 Velvet AP per turn that way.

And of course there's other possibilities. Maybe we'll get an ongoing source of income to "keep us quiet", items bought at cost or under from the Merchant, tips on OTHER criminals to pursue for the Bureau, a spy inside the noble faction for any rumors of further betrayal...

...I think we need actions too much, otherwise I'd seriously be tempted to pick Mareinette . I think I'm leaning 5 actions + Mareinette x2, as those actions cover my bare minimum list of actions I want to take next turn.

so I'm leaning either

[]Plan Minimal Actions + Twice Mareinette
-[] What of the merchant, who engaged in bribery?
--[] Ask for a few favors (gain TWO "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
-[] What of the public servant, who needed a pony to "disappear"?
--[] Have Mareinette deal with it (unpredictable result, that will still benefit you)
-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Have Mareinette deal with it (unpredictable result, that will still benefit you)


[]Plan Medium Actions + Twice Mareinette
-[] What of the merchant, who engaged in bribery?
--[] Have Mareinette deal with it (unpredictable result, that will still benefit you)
-[] What of the public servant, who needed a pony to "disappear"?
--[] Have him work for his misdeeds (gain FIVE "servant actions", on turn 21 only)
--[] Have Mareinette deal with it (unpredictable result, that will still benefit you)
-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Have Mareinette deal with it (unpredictable result, that will still benefit you)


basically to aim either for 2 Velvet APs, or 3 (by adding our followers), + Double Mareinette.

Mareinette will likely get the most out of them. If it wasn't for how much we need APs next turn I'd likely go Mareinette 3x