Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Pororurin]

Honestly, with how Grail works it very well could an actual organ we grow within Velvet savour-secret style.

 

[Solace2117]

Interesting, not surprised. Could have been worse, could have been better. As with most things just waiting to see how it all plays out. Toying with the idea if we could get to at least heart 4 in a couple turns without sacrificing much. We don't need to be at 4/4 for Marienette's grail sacrament, wonder if it'll be the same for heart.

 

[ArticulateJargon]

in regards to Mareinette, I'd like to say this. I think the situation is… weird. The choice is if we are serious about "this" relationship, which is incredibly non-specific, intentionally so. Now, I tend to skip most of the discussion, but it seems to me that our relationship with Mareinette so far has been purely professional. We summoned her to get her out of the way, first and foremost. We have used her primarily to advance ourselves and remove other problems. Now, I understand that Mareinette functions a bit differently than most summons, so maybe she doesn't get the same benefits from it, but when did we ever promise a different kind of relationship than a normal name-summoner relationship? This very choice is that time, it seems like. Yet it feels like she's trying to guilt us into the type of interaction she wants. It feels predatory.

 

[Arrkhon]

in regards to Mareinette, I'd like to say this. I think the situation is… weird. The choice is if we are serious about "this" relationship, which is incredibly non-specific, intentionally so. Now, I tend to skip most of the discussion, but it seems to me that our relationship with Mareinette so far has been purely professional. We summoned her to get her out of the way, first and foremost. We have used her primarily to advance ourselves and remove other problems. Now, I understand that Mareinette functions a bit differently than most summons, so maybe she doesn't get the same benefits from it, but when did we ever promise a different kind of relationship than a normal name-summoner relationship? This very choice is that time, it seems like. Yet it feels like she's trying to guilt us into the type of interaction she wants. It feels predatory.

Click to shrink...

I will direct you to her profile

-Upon successful completion of the ritual, Mareinette will be PERMANENTLY and COMPLETELY summoned into the Wake. She will no longer reside within the Mansus.

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[THE SECOND BIRTH]: Mareinette may choose to sacrifice a tremendous amount of health to immediately break her summoner's bindings.

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She is our guest, it's not a business relationship

 

[Greymere]

No, changelings are allowed. Only summons are disallowed. If it's good enough for the [Murderer] trait to trigger it's good enough for sacraments. That's literally the distinction.

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Nope. Only ponies can be used.

...though... @OurLadyOfWires sorry if I already asked, but can we sacrifice a changeling for lantern 4 personal sacrament, or grail 4 personal, if we capture one?

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No. Pony sacrifices only.

Click to shrink...

 

[spiderhellian]

A Dinner With Spoiled Rich

You are Spoiled Rich.

You know where you've come from. The muck, the squalour, the filth that once tainted your hooves. Thankfully, that is in the past now, by no small amount of effort on your part. You are grateful every day to have left your parent's hovel behind.

These days, you breath more rarified air and walk more luxurious estates. The lawns are well-trimmed, for the gardener knows he will get a talking to, and wages docked, if it is not. The people are courteous, and entreating, and treat you with the respect you are due (that you were always due). And of course, you spend time with more elevated company these days -- such as the person you're going to visit now.

Of course, such an elevation comes with attendant responsibilities. This is what you're always trying to teach Diamond, but your ~~stupid~~ silly husband constantly slips up. Really, it's two steps forward and three steps back with your daughter, but you will not fail at teaching her what really matters in this world.

These responsibilities are never more evident than when attending a formal dinner. They begin weeks in advance, when you first receive the invitation, dark red ink on creamy white paper. Your response should be prompt, excited but not overly enthusiastic. Then you must find a suitable gift, either to bring at attendance or to deliver afterwards (but this must always be purchased ahead of time). Wine is an insult to their own cellars, flowers fade and with them any friendship. A bracelet is out of the question, since your daughter remains precisely useless, unable to provide a scrap of information on the size of Silky Stream's fetlock (it would be gauche to purchase one that didn't fit). So ultimately, you settled on a painting -- a lurid sunset, in vIolet and red and pink -- to be delivered afterwards. You judged it good art, at least by the only metric that matters.

And that is only the beginning. Yes, each piece of cutlery must be used properly, Diamond, and you will not leave that chair until you do so! Yes, you should consider where the conversation might go in advance, but it should never feel rehearsed. And you should make sure to take a polite interest in who else might be attending -- though thankfully, that will not be relevant tonight.

For tonight, you are the Lady Velvet Covers has invited you over for dinner, to dine with her alone.

---

You have come to know Lady Velvet well over the past few months. Perhaps in the aftermath of that horrid attempt on her life, she too has been reminded of what matters. Her visits to your estate are so lovely, for all that Diamond makes a fuss afterwards. You have such an incredible time that the hours blur by: the conversation is witty, the delight all-consuming, and your horrid husband at least has the good sense to mostly stay quiet. And after every such evening, you know -- you're one step closer to the thing you've always been striving, and one rung up on the ladder you've always been climbing.

She's charming. She's bewitching.

She's enchanting. She's ravenous.

She's an unending fount of wisdom. She's unceasing.

You are simply delighted that she is your friend, and you are hers. Not least because of what it says about her good taste for your refinement.

It would not do to have that familiarity encourage you to be sloppy, however. Yes, that is the mistake the other members of your family constantly make! Diamond believes because she is well off, and popular at school, that is enough. Your husband believes because he is well off, and popular in the town, that is enough.

Well, they're wrong. It's not enough. It would never be enough. You can always have more, and you need to.

It is good to be getting away from them for an evening. Velvet -- Lady Velvet understands this. She has taught you some of its finer details, even.

And so, despite the seriousness of the occasion, a smile graces your face as you trot up to the Manor's gates.

---

A butler quickly receives you -- not as lazy as your own staff, but he failed to doff his cap, how disrespectful! -- and leads you to your destination. Ah, Lady Velvet had mentioned she wanted to make an occasion of this dinner, and perhaps she expects it to run long into the morning. That would explain why she has not arranged it in the main house itself, but in one of the off-buildings. It's the kind of thing a lesser socialite might take offense at, but you understand its deeper meaning.

The butler opens the door, and a breath of hot air rushes out. He wrinkles his nose, clearly failing to appreciate the fine perfume that scents the air. You step inside -- and though you do not show it (right?) you are taken aback.

Tall candelebras are arranged against the walls, light and shadows flickering in the aftermath of the breeze. The curtains are draped in a lush crimson. The table is solid and oak, and lined with plates of fine china (which will not be empty for much longer). The chairs -- the chairs are wide, and adorned with pink cushions. A touch peculiar, ah, but she must be expecting that by the time the night is through, the two of you might seek to sprawl in your luxuriation -- how thoughtful.

At the table's far end sits your friend. Your confidant. Your ally, your advisor, your beacon of light amidst Ponyville's oppressive darkness.

The person you have undoubtedly spent so much time with over the last few months. Who left you feeling so excited, and the world so lush with possibility. Like all you desired was in reach, and all you had to do was reach out and take it. Yes, no one could have done that but the Mare in front of you, so undoubtedly she did.

"Rich! I have been looking forward to this all week!" Velvet says, greeting you with a smile. Your husband might be Filthy, to her, but you are always Rich. And glad of it. "Please, come in," she says, "And have a seat!"

You sit down, the cushions plush beneath you. You talk of all sorts of things -- the goings on in the Mayoral office, what must be done about the ruffians flooding the city, the ineptitude of your daughter, all the usual subjects. Your wine glass is never empty, and the conversation never runs dry.

But the dinner is not yet served, and almost an hour in, you faintly broach that topic. "Are we waiting on some thing for dinner?", You say, "Or are the kitchen staff just running behind? Chefs can be so lazy sometimes."

Velvet raises her brow, and shakes her head. "No," she says, "There shouldn't be any issues. I've simply been en--" she pauses, and then continues, "savouring this moment."

She shakes her head, and for a moment, her expression turns sad. Regretful. More than anything, it reminds you of your mother's face, the last time you saw her. All those decades ago.

But before you can inquire, the smile has returned to her face. "There is just one thing to do before the two of us can eat, Rich. Come with me."

She rises, beckoning you, and you follow her to the rear of the building. You are refined, ladylike, dignified as you do so. Not pestering her with questions (how ever curious you are), and not allowing your stomach to utter a single treacherous rumble.

You follow her through a doorway. And you walk into wall of heat.

There is a fire roaring in the back of this kitchen? Yes, it must be a kitchen, even if it looks a little more sloppily assembled than you'd expect. Mismatched tables carry cutting boards and a dizzying array of knives, pots of different colours and sizes are burbling atop stoves, and the whole room is dominated by a great fire at the back.

Where someone works. Where someone waits. Someone who has clearly been preparing an elaborate meal, all this while -- it wouldn't surprise you that Velvet was able to find the only competent chef in Ponyville.

That is the pony preparing the meal, so that is clearly the chef. Yes, they even wear the traditional outfit -- a blood-red cloak covering their form, their head topped with a white toque. The figure turns around, and you are truly amazed that Velvet secured such an esteemed figure to cook tonight. She has lived up to her own responsibilities and beyond.

"Rich, have you met Mareinette?" Velvet asks, and you think for a second. You would undoubtedly remember spending time with such an illustrious figure, even if she does work for a living, and you do not. So you shake your head no, and Velvet smiles. She replies, "No matter. Mareinette, are we almost ready for dinner?"

[GRAIL!]

"Lovely, thank you. Then that just means..." Velvet swallows. She takes a deep breath. And then she looks at you with a cold, cold, gaze. It reminds you of the gaze you gave your father, the last time you saw him. All those decades ago.

The fire is still roaring, the pots are still burbling, the Monster is still preparing.

But you feel cold, and you can't look away.

"I'm going to tell you a secret, Mrs. Rich. Truthfully... I don't like myself very much." You open your mouth to respond, your eyes widening, but she continues on. And you will not interrupt her, your manners haven't failed you yet.

"My last name comes from a brute, one of the only things he gave me I haven't been able to get rid of. My ruthlessness almost burned the world down, and it has too left too much of it ash as it is. My rank was earned by deeds I should not have done, and aiding crimes I should have stopped." She pauses, having told you that she despises everything you ever esteemed in her. You're too stunned to speak.

"The only things I love in my life are the ones that have nothing to do with me." She grimaces, but continues.

"My husband -- my horseshoe." Didn't she agree that husbands were nothing but a very complicated tractor, unfortunately necessary to reap well-sown fields? What is she saying about a horseshoe?

"My daughters -- they're all perfect, you know, even if they're all different." You know of her daughters, yes, but you thought they were utter frustrations much like your own!

"My friends -- who I don't deserve, I really really don't." You two are... Ladies. With a capital L. You're not supposed to have friends. Other than each other, of course, but others should be carefully maneuvered to think they're friends, not actually be them.

"But do you know something, Spoiled?"

You open your mouth, but nothing comes out.

"I don't like myself very much. But what I've learned is that's okay. Because I can change."

She takes a deep breath, as tears start to leak down her cheeks. and repeats herself slowly, "I. Can. Change."

"I can be different than i was yesterday. I can be more tomorrow than I am today. I can be less afraid, and more thoughtful. I can do better, and lessen the evils I've done." She's speaking fiercely now, a fire in her voice to match the one still roaring in the corner.

"Or... I could have." Her voice trembles. "But I simply don't have time. I can't take risks, not when it comes to her gaze. So yes, I could have changed. One day and one word and one action at a time. But now, I have to sacrifice that chance."

CLACK-CLACK-CLACK-CLACK-CLACK comes from a corner of the room, followed by a "[MOTH]?". You're baffled by what the cook means, but you can't look away from Velvet.

"Yes, I have to," She says, "Too much is at stake. But you, Spoiled, do you know the thing that really gets me about you?" She glances at Mareinette, still toiling away. "From everything Mareinette has told me about you, you don't. Any day you could have become something else. Something other than this... monster. You had nothing pinning you down, nothing haunting or hunting your dreams. You could have loved your husband, or your daughter. You could have worked at loving them. Or, tartarus, you could have left! And learned to love yourself!"

Her face is raw, agonized, tears running down her cheeks. You've never seen this pony in your life. You've never seen this pony in your life.

And then, in an instant, she's gone. Her tears vanish, her poise returns, her voice is unwavering. Whoever you just saw in front of you — this isn't her anymore.

"But now, you can't. And maybe you never could."

Her gaze leaves your eyes for the first time since you entered this room. She looks over your shoulder.

"Mareinette, it's time for dinner."

You have so much to say. She-- But-- Wait--

You're angry, and baffled, and hurt, and offended, and and and -- and you thought this was a dinner!

[GRAIL!]

And then, it is.

Spoiler

This is a humble request, Bird -- let us do the Moth and Grail sacrament actions on the same person, in the same night. Whoever that might be...

Yes, humble requests tend to take 2000 words, that's standard practice!

...As a work, this got a little long. And Velvet's voice is hard. And I'm not sure if I got either Sacrament right, really. But it was a fun scene to explore!

 

[Nevermort]

And this is why we need to allow Mareinette to continue her friendship with Cadance.
At the end of it Cadance chances not to become cannibal are honestly better than Velvet's. And her odds to redeem Mareinette probably better than ours too. Harmony Love magic and all that. Maybe there is ritual to boost Cadance Harmony connection or something.

And there are more ways we can help Cadance too. From chaperoning their meeting, to telling Cadance more about Mansus and about Mareinette. Just without badmouthing Mareinette, please. Like tell Cadance about Crime of the Sky and how Mareinette suffered from it, but still have not fully eaten anyone after her return except for criminals who attacked us.

 

[Rafuki22]

And then, it is.

Click to shrink...

Very tempting, but unlikely to happen, mechanically and probably voting wise, although maybe it being a "deserving" target would outweight the revulsion towards Mareinette Sacrament.

 

[DelightedOne]

Toying with the idea if we could get to at least heart 4 in a couple turns without sacrificing much.

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If we take An Imminence and look for Heart books we can do that in like 3 turns.

Like tell Cadance about Crime of the Sky and how Mareinette suffered from it, but still have not fully eaten anyone after her return except for criminals who attacked us.

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We can't do that because Velvet doesn't even know the Crime exists, consequently Velvet has no idea of what Mareinette is besides the obvious "monster".

 

[Nevermort]

If we take An Imminence and look for Heart books we can do that in like 3 turns.

Click to shrink...

We have only four turns until Mareinette binding expire. At best.

And I don't want to fight Mareinette, when the time runs out. We really don't need bonus boss at the ending. And at the same time I am not interested in wooing Mareinette , as it includes invitation to dinner, and I am not interested in her Sacrament.

And finding new ways to weasel out of this binary choice is unlikely to work. Because we already are given third way with Cadance! It took max Grail and SH influences but we have done it! An alternative solution!

I mean it is the same thing as with alternative Twilight. We did not have route to help Twilight , QM offered alternative Twilight route, people did not take it. And I mean fair, it was not much better than what was there to begin with. I mentioned it to point out that even if we spend even more actions to find yet more solutions to Mareinette it is increasingly unlikely that it would be better solution than what we have now. Not necessary because Heart sacrament would be as bad. It is equally likely that it is simply not a way to befriend Mareinette, or a way but unlike Grail it is not a easy way and demands all Heart scraps and additional actions.

Basically we have :
a) rely on Cady to keep Mareinette busy,
b) fight Mareinette or
c) take her Grail Sacrament choices
and I would not bet on getting any more viable options in the time we have left.

We can't do that because Velvet doesn't even know the Crime exists, consequently Velvet has no idea of what Mareinette is besides the obvious "monster".

Click to shrink...

I would have thought that it came up in Velvet talks with Baldomare at some point, but I honestly don't remember. She could have warned us when we asked multiple questions about Mansus and its history, but if not fine. See we don't even have anything to tell Cadance except for our own conjectures. Yes, Mareinette attacked us at the beginning, but she was literally starving. And so far she held back her addictions relatively well.



Edit: Ultimately I am not against taking actions to prepare for any outcomes. I have my preferences, but efficiency is more important. Eventually we should do something preparation wise, like taking actions designed to help Cadance to keep Mareinette longer without getting off the deep end. Or designing ritual to strengthen Mareinette bindings in case it comes to conflict. Or finally making prison to keep captured ponies, as it is needed for any sacrifice action. It just would be much better if we could agree on what we should be aiming for.

Actually I would have preferred if Mareinette Moods was a vote at the end of this update instead of turn vote, so we could then plan accordingly.

 

[DelightedOne]

I would have thought that it came up in Velvet talks with Baldomare at some point, but I honestly don't remember.

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Nah, she does that in Canon as well

"	Company is nice, but I still miss my Christopher. Ten years! Ten years, and not enough. But we could not have been Long together - not without touching each other. And you know what occurs when a man-Long lies with a Long woman. Or perhaps you don't. I hope you don't. I won't tell you, just in case. I will give you a tiny gift.	"
	~ Teresa, at the Lodge of the Sage Knight

Honestly Mareinette is giving me a headache, my dice said keeping her in Ponyville was the way to go but there is something in my mind saying that Cadance is a better option.

 

[Nevermort]

Nah, she does that in Canon as well

"	Company is nice, but I still miss my Christopher. Ten years! Ten years, and not enough. But we could not have been Long together - not without touching each other. And you know what occurs when a man-Long lies with a Long woman. Or perhaps you don't. I hope you don't. I won't tell you, just in case. I will give you a tiny gift.	"
	~ Teresa, at the Lodge of the Sage Knight

Click to shrink...

Inconvenient. Still there are likely ways to learn more, or at least give Cadance some notes on what the deal with Mansus.

What comes to mind so far:

a) Velvet social action to speak with Mareinette about her history.

Because perhaps we just need to ask? Probably can also use Mareinette action for it if we want. If we send her in Canterlot we can also talk in the company of Cadance so she hears Mareinette story from the first account, assuming Mareinette is willing to tell.

b) Mareinette action to speak with Midday Dew.

Was shot down before, but the reason given by QM was that Velvet did not trust Mareinette enough. But by now we trusted her to be Princess for the day. If coupled with Mareinette in Canterlot and Velvet chaperoning we maybe able to lure Midday Dew out of building and interrogate with Cadance, Velvet and Mareinette in attendance. It is bad for ruling Princess not to be aware what her most secretive researchers are doing after all.

с) Scrying with the goal of learning more about Mareinette?

Don't know if she would find it offensive or not so not the most optimal choice. Still our scrying can do almost anything, so there are likely ways to come closer to our objective with it. Like scrying to find best gift to give Mareinette that Velvet would be willing to give (compare to how much actions we spend on finding gifts for Baldomare).

 

[Solace2117]

And finding new ways to weasel out of this binary choice is unlikely to work. Because we already are given third way with Cadance! It took max Grail and SH influences but we have done it! An alternative solution!

I mean it is the same thing as with alternative Twilight. We did not have route to help Twilight , QM offered alternative Twilight route, people did not take it. And I mean fair, it was not much better than what was there to begin with. I mentioned it to point out that even if we spend even more actions to find yet more solutions to Mareinette it is increasingly unlikely that it would be better solution than what we have now. Not necessary because Heart sacrament would be as bad. It is equally likely that it is simply not a way to befriend Mareinette, or a way but unlike Grail it is not a easy way and demands all Heart scraps and additional actions.

Click to shrink...

Maybe it won't, but it would be nice to see. We may not have time to get to at least heart 4 in the next few turns, but I don't know that getting to 4 in any lore is a bad choice.

Will the Heart Sacrament befriend Mareinette, eh, could go either way. Ourladyofwires likes their binary choices, especially when at a focal point so I could see Grail being the only one that does since often they are a result of Velvet's own lack of power in the context.

Still a lot of thought has been put into Mareinette and she is just as much a Name of Heart. Will it be something we can accomplish in the needed time, maybe not, but it wouldn't be the worst choice to try depending on how things shake out.

Realistically we're all reacting and planning for things, but we'll see how it all shakes out by the end of the turn and beginning of next.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

My opinion has not changed. You cannot allow someone you don't trust to have the Glory, that is the same as killing yourself. Mareinette will fight us in the final all in mission if she is not a friend, and don't think for a moment that Mareinette is not Edge 6, entire Name hit squads have tried to kill Mareinette and got eaten for their efforts.

We have Mareinette use her action next turn to turn Spoiled Rich into a minion. Turn after we use Spoiled Rich, for the Moth Sacrament, then the Grail sacrament.

 

[Nevermort]

My opinion has not changed. You cannot allow someone you don't trust to have the Glory, that is the same as killing yourself. Mareinette will fight us in the final all in mission if she is not a friend, and don't think for a moment that Mareinette is not Edge 6, entire Name hit squads have tried to kill Mareinette and got eaten for their efforts.

We have Mareinette use her action next turn to turn Spoiled Rich into a minion. Turn after we use Spoiled Rich, for the Moth Sacrament, then the Grail sacrament.

Click to shrink...

Getting an appreciation for pony flesh before ascending to Glory defeats the whole purpose, because why would you want pony eating god to rule you? Having multiple Wolf stains is already bad.

If you are so convinced that Mareinette will fight us at the end, then allow her to sit more on Cadance throne, then just before All-in expedition have Cadance approach Celestia about there being two Cadances. While they distracted with each other go for Discord!

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Also Mareinette is kind of living proof that letting other people reach Glory is not suicide (for her), as she has outlived a ton of beings that have gotten closer to Glory than she ever could. Like most of the Hours. Someone else reaching Glory is a lose condition for Velvet; someone else reaching Glory is a return to normalcy for Mareinette. Their loss conditions and concerns are not remotely the same.

 

[Sveta08]

A Dinner With Spoiled Rich

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Ha! I am reminded of a song. From The King and I

~Getting to know you, getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you, getting to hope you like me.
Getting to know you, putting it my way,
But nicely,
You are precisely,
My cup of tea.~
​

I love it.
I doubt it will count for both. But, oh. What Temptous offering that is.

The fears we feel are simple. We don't know what Marinette wants beyond what we know. But getting to know her, changing in an unknown way.. they are the same thing here.

I do think the Grail Sacrament would be wise. Sooner rather than later.


A great pity that changelings cannot be used. I suppose we must still make choices, cut costs.
Oh sweet Spoiled Rich. Do be a dear until the end, would you?

 

[ses]

Should probably try to social Filthy up to Confidante next turn if we're going this route. He might not react well to us doing horrible things to his wife even if he's better off without her. Leashing him into a Minion might be needed to not lose both relationships if, y'know, we kill and eat his wife. Even if she's a massive bitch, it seems like the sort of thing that leads to a locked acquaintance

 

[ArticulateJargon]

I will direct you to her profile


She is our guest, it's not a business relationship

Click to shrink...

I'm afraid I still disagree there. Yes, she's capable of leaving, yes she won't go back to the mansus when she dose, but we summoned her for a purpose, not as a social call. I suppose that is where this tension with the "moods of Mareinette" comes from to begin with. Summoner-name relations have always been rather lopsided in favor of the summoner. They have to be, no mortal could truly afford their services if they weren't. Each of our summoned names is getting something personal out of it. Axe got to look for the Fungiclave, Beddie gets to hunt monsters, Baldomare gets to go out into a world so different from what she remembers that there is finally new stuff to learn. Mareinette wants something we have. Something of us.(or possibly to eat our kids) And to her, the best path there is to be our honored guest. The thing is, she's not. Neither honored nor guest. That's why this choice is coming up, I feel

 

[spiderhellian]

One thing I would appreciate is what the alternative is with Mareinette.

I see four actions, all of them bad, and All In.

1) Pray the Heart Sacrament befriends her. It will be at least two turns, maybe three, before we even know what this. We will have no idea what it entails, or if it's more palatable (why would it be?), or if it even befriends her. And by delaying we really remove all possibility of choice.

2) Fight her. This is dumb. She's a monster who survived the worst the Mansus had. Biedde can beat her, but kill her? Ugh.

3) Send her to Cadance. I'm sorry, what? A relationship, sure. But trusting a lore initiate more than ourselves when it comes to managing her corrupting, intoxicating, influence?

4) Just let her go. I hope this one doesn't need explaining

5) Go All In. Okay. I'm happy to commit to this in the next 4 turns. Though I'd feel much more comfortable if we had a Name very strong in our weakest areas for expeditions (Heart, Grail, Combat).

… Am I missing something? Which option do people prefer, and why do they prefer it over the Grail Saceament?

 

[ses]

The way to have a friend is to be a friend. I can only hope that the QM doesn't use thread discussion against us because taking the sacrament "because we can't murder her" is not something I would call being a friend. I genuinely want to learn more about her and actually see the facets of her personality we've been told are there but we never get to see because IC and OOC we keep refusing to look.

 

[Maer]

Of course we're her friend. What friend doesn't consider how difficult it would be to murder the other in the climb for Glory? It's just common practice.

 

[ses]

So funnily enough, as a minor bit of mechanics minmaxing, because All In occurs "between turns", I'm pretty sure that we can't bring Name-granted influences to All In, but we CAN bring a Called influence to All In since it persists between turns. So if we go All In between turns X and X+1, we can do Calling of Influence on turn X and bring that Influence into All In.

I mention this because I was originally going to suggest aiming to bring a Perfect Frost to All In to try and make up for our lack of Neighnia, but then I remembered that there is certainly going to be combat during the final expedition and Combat Hurdles on expeditions simply send us into the normal combat system as we saw during the Twilight Jailbreak rather than being a single rolled test.

And every point of bonus for combat matter disproportionately compared to normal tests.

And that getting killed in normal combat would suck and is a much more likely outcome failing at combat than a normal hurdle even on the final dungeon (we don't know how many re-attempted hurdles we get before mission failure but I assume it's more than zero. Combat is always risky though.)

So... uh.... I think our strategy for Biedde is literally just sacrifice him for the sake of getting a 2 turn influence in a Calling of Influence ritual on our final turn. He explicitly does not mind being sacrificed. He gets to join us on the final dungeon after all. In spirit.

 

[Nevermort]

3) Send her to Cadance. I'm sorry, what? A relationship, sure. But trusting a lore initiate more than ourselves when it comes to managing her corrupting, intoxicating, influence?

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As I mentioned before I prefer this option. Delegating is good. Lores are not all there is in the setting. Harmony is a thing too, and Flattershy defeated Colonel influence with it. Alicorns are even more in tune with Harmony. We also learning about Memory of Light which may give us more insights into the matter. And if being Lore initiate is issue we can always train Cadance more.

Moreover claiming that Velvet is more resistant to Mareinette corruption , and saying that best way is to take her Grail Sacrament in the same post does not make sense. Taking Mareinette Grail Sacrament is the same as being corrupted by her. So it just suggestion to become corrupted instead of Cadance. And it does not look like a good idea, as we still plan to become god I assume.

I mean if Velvet was normal mare then sacrificing herself for Princess sake makes total sense. Not so much for someone with plans for ascension. Or you think Grail Sacrament does not carries into what kind of Hour Velvet becomes? Hours to a degree are laws of nature, they can't go against their nature (Which is why Moth flew into Glory) and having such sacrament as part of Velvet nature in not great.

Worst comes to worst Cadance could always be stopped. Harmony knows how to reform corrupted Alicorns. Glory powered Velvet very well may be different thing entirely.

So best case scenario Cadance improves Mareinette with her Harmony based power. Basic scenario is that Cadance keeps Mareinette attention long enough for us to do everything that we need. Worst case scenario we get another corrupted Alicorn which between Nightmare Moon and Daybreaker is just business as usual by now. Still better than allowing Mareinette to roam free and eat a few small towns, or allowing corrupted Velvet to reign over all of existence. I mean the last is probably better than Mother of Wolves ending, but by how much? Would blood offering become a thing? Would ponies become carnivores?

 

[Alan975]

Ugh, not the to obnoxious but this kind of talk anoys me every time.

Nevermort, I think that you are being far too hopeful. Remember that this is still horror, where if the author can't make us dread then they'll make us regret.

So how sure are you that Harmony can protect Cadence? Sure, Luna was ...recovered-ish through the effort of Velvet. But that was when there was less momentum behind it all.

First some nightmares for her, then some nibbling at Twilights hoofs, and now with Celestia...
I don't think there's been any clue that Daybreaker is worm related, that seems to be all Celestia. Harmony drenched Celestia.

There could be an argument made that as the Glory emerges once more, Harmony is forced to step back.

And you think that Cadanse would be fine if left under the tender machinations of the premier prima-donna?

You think that -even if we had the Actions and if it was allowed- we could counter that by "keeping tabs" on them?

Velvet has been "keeping tabs" on Mareinette, and she still got into Velvets head!


The ONLY safety nett we have is that Cadance will not chow down her own flesh and blood, but if Grail grows and Harmony falls then even Love can be changed.



Because is it not love that is shown when you truly savor something? The love for the craft, love for the effort and love for the maker?


Not to mention that she already has Lore 0 across the board, while Selene only got 4.
Do you think that we could beat a Lored up Alicorn taught by someone as old and well versed as Mareinette? Even if there's no Alukite second form?

 

[Nevermort]

Ugh, not the to obnoxious but this kind of talk anoys me every time.

Nevermort, I think that you are being far too hopeful. Remember that this is still horror, where if the author can't make us dread then they'll make us regret.

So how sure are you that Harmony can protect Cadence? Sure, Luna was ...recovered-ish through the effort of Velvet. But that was when there was less momentum behind it all.

First some nightmares for her, then some nibbling at Twilights hoofs, and now with Celestia...
I don't think there's been any clue that Daybreaker is worm related, that seems to be all Celestia. Harmony drenched Celestia.

There could be an argument made that as the Glory emerges once more, Harmony is forced to step back.

And you think that Cadanse would be fine if left under the tender machinations of the premier prima-donna?

You think that -even if we had the Actions and if it was allowed- we could counter that by "keeping tabs" on them?

Velvet has been "keeping tabs" on Mareinette, and she still got into Velvets head!


The ONLY safety nett we have is that Cadance will not chow down her own flesh and blood, but if Grail grows and Harmony falls then even Love can be changed.

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It is not very hopeful if plan takes into account failure too. Like let's dismiss best case scenario if you want to be more pessimistic.
Basic case scenario is that Cadance delays Mareinette long enough. How much time you think it would take Mareinette to fully corrupt Cadence? I think 6 turns minimum. I mean Mareinette planned to corrupt Velvet in 9 turns or so, and Velvet is just pony , not an Alicorn. And there is no reason to assume Mareinette would rush job with Cadence corruption, as she like to play her games. Not to mention all the ways we can if not help Cadance fully resist then extend things as much as possible. Additional time that would be very useful for All-inn expedition, as we don't know how much time getting Juicer will take.

Not to mention that she already has Lore 0 across the board, while Selene only got 4.
Do you think that we could beat a Lored up Alicorn taught by someone as old and well versed as Mareinette? Even if there's no Alukite second form?

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I don't expect fighting her even in worst case scenario? I mean by then Mareinette would be spending all her time with Cadance thus definitely would miss the moment we will go for All in expedition. The further Mareinette from Velvet the less chances she gets to guess our immediate intentions.

All preparation to deal with Mareinette while also keeping her near us are much more likely to fail than this. And I already told why I find her Grail Sacrament to be self defeating.

 

[Arrkhon]

Honestly I believe that letting Cadence handle it would be for the best, both for them both and for everyone else as well
Personally I would prefer us to be the one doing befriending, Mareinnette is a really cool character and we will get more of her this way

 

[Nevermort]

Honestly I believe that letting Cadence handle it would be for the best, both for them both and for everyone else as well
Personally I would prefer us to be the one doing befriending, Mareinnette is a really cool character and we will get more of her this way

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QM promised option for Velvet to chaperon Cadance with Mareinette, that I assume will be available going forward, thus allowing for further interaction with Mareinette . I would not be surprised if people choose to hover more near Cadance to keep her safe, than they would otherwise spend on improving relationship with Mareinette if we decide to go the other route. I could be wrong of course, but I get a sense that having Mareinette to stay at the farm is just people choosing to keep things the same, or at least to try too. Of course Mareinette deciding to be difficult would complicate it.

 

[spiderhellian]

Talking about Cadance befriending and redeeming (or at least ameliorating) Mareinette seems like crazy talk to me!

It reminds me of thinking that possession by the Master would be fun in some ways, that we'd get to show off or have a Disco Elysium-style experience.

Sure, anything's possible. But this is a horror quest, and we're dealing with a monster here. That is not the likely outcome here!

Yes, she is a Monster I wish to befriend. Yes, she is a Monster I do not think is indelibly corrupting.

But yes, she is a monster. And at least Velvet knows that, for better and for worse!

---

And if you're saying "Ah, we'll chaperone, so it'll be find — that just seems like befriending her with extra steps and fewer benefits and less influence. Or do you think Cadance will be able to befriend her for less costs, moral or otherwise? If so, why?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Well the choice as it stands are three, it seems:

1. Risk Cadance being corrupted by Mareinette.
2. Guarantee that Velvet is corrupted by Marinette via Sacrament.
3. Keep Mareinette away from Cadance, not take her Sacrament, let the chips fall where they may, and risk a possibly game-ending fallout.