Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Pittauro]

Eating Velvet Hill is a bad idea

1. We are close to All In. There are many things we want to achieve before then, and we want our focus on those things. As I believe @Greymere mentioned, it's therefore valuable to not make a mess. Not cause craziness we'll need to deal with or that'll throw off our plans. Kiling our father would make a mess. We're killing off our family's head. We're killing a mafia-org's head at the same time it's second-in-command is leaving. This is going to be a mess.

2. We don't need to. I'm not even talking about Girldinner here. But for the same cost of effort, we could just... abduct literally anyone else. A random criminal off the street, if we'd like.

3. We're way overconfident on its easiness. This is the head of a mob family. You don't think he's going to have some capacity to escape? Some level of guards? Names are strong, but this is risky!

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To reiterate my opinion:

Killing Velvet Hill is BETTER than killing Spoiled Rich, in my opinion, both morally (he's a worse person) and narratively because it's Velvet finally getting even with the pony who nearly ruined her life and abandoned her.

He Doesn't REALLY deserve death for what he did to Velvet (he didn't threw her out. Emotional Neglect is horrible, but not death-penalty worthy), BUT we have the comfortable excuse of "he's also a criminal who got away with who knows how many crimes".

That said, yeah, it would STILL be better to take a random psychopath instead.

It's a bit less risky, as there's fewer reasons for suspicion to lead to us.

It's not personal, which means it's also likely to weight less on Velvet's conscience. Or to horrify other people if they find out (you have to admit that "I sacrificed a serial killer/pedophile for power" sounds LESS BAD than "I sacrificed my father for power").

it doesn't really cost much more. I'd say it's basically just an extra scrying action to find the worst and most vulnerable criminal we can get with a single Biedde action.

It's also likely to cost fewer bits, as getting a prisoner normally should be just a Biedde action, while getting Velvet Hill is a SHORT EXPEDITION, we'd likely want to send Biedde and either Axe or Mareinette (probably Mareinette as a follower, so no action cost for her), which means we need 50 bits put aside for them (even if we'll likely get some back).

Admittedly we could get some side benefits, like stealing some bits too... but that's secondary.



In other words: I'm still for "scry for criminal, send Biedde to capture him, Have Forge Name build the prison" idea, instead of "combo moth+grail on Spoiled" or "take vengeance on daddy", which are more personal, and by virtue of being personal they'll weight heavier on Velvet.

With what bits?

We literally don't have the cash with how the thread has insisted on throwing away money.

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Sell the Moth 3 artifact, that's probably 200 bits.

@OurLadyOfWires Once we've studied an artifact and you said we can probably sell them with free actions, have you already decided if the price is automatic and what it is? Also are the bits usable the same turn we sell it or the turn after?

Which means,

Turn 22: study moth 3
Turn 23: sell it.

Can we use those bits on turn 23 or not?

I would argue that Windy Flakes is a better target than Hills, just that we would need to spend an action on finding him first.

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Not really? Windy Flakes is if anything the WORST target, at least in terms of ease. He is, after all, the last cultist left. He might have Neighnia, if not he likely has Windigoes or maybe even Ash Ghouls.

It might still be a good pick because we'd be removing another threat AND getting some other resources out of it (he certainly owns artifacts at least), but...

...damn, he WAS our friend. I don't want to eat him! I barely even wanted to kill Copper, and I only went for that because once we were committed to the war I didn't think peace was really viable!

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

To Comfort in Spite

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So, I read this more than once. Let me start by saying that I enjoyed it! This was really good, and Wolf jokes aside I don't think I would have sensed your "agony" over it if not for your last remarks.

But you did, and I re-read it, and if you permit me I'll make some comments of my own.

Now, please remember I am no "authority" in this subject. This is just what came to mind, or what I might have done different, as I re-read it the second and the third time.

First of all, this might be a bit of a "chicken and egg" situation. I can't tell if your discomfort caused this, or if this caused your discomfort. However, one of the things that I noticed in a reread was that... well, there's a bit of a styles clash? I am not sure how to call it, but there are things that could (or, as some who forget we write for free might say, "should") have been caught during the editing period.

Specifically, there are several words that are bolded but not colored.

That is a trick that I use as well. I write using Word, I bold the words I want to color, and I color them properly after pasting the text into the QQ forum box. And every now and then I miss words as well.

But, again, maybe this is what caused part of your discomfort with the final product. Or perhaps, this was caused by your discomfort. And is just evidence your mind "wasn't quite there" as you said.

Another thing in the same vein is that you mixed your "second/third person" writing. You start with second person:

You are Ashen Weaver.

Today, you were… not dreaming.

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Then you slip to third

Taking a moment to center himself and force in a calming breath, he exhaled slowly, the silence building around him until… something snapped into focus. He twitched, feeling… cold.

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Then you slip back to second.

So you walked in. You tried singing, and it was correct, but not right.

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But again, chicken and egg. Can't tell if this was a cause or an effect of your discomfort.

Another thing that came to mind was the "substance" of the story.

To put it simply, I don't think you went far enough with your vision. Let me explain.

You have been developing the story of Ashen Weaver. He is no longer a one-shot that exists in your mind, and you have been putting more than just a little thought into where this is all going. And as the updates (or omakes) compound, you stop seeing his story in flashes or pictures, and start piecing the images together into a sequence or a film. And that makes you notice things you can't see in a frozen picture, but that feels wrong as the story progresses.

So, let me say that... well, you just aren't explaining enough. I won't go into the semantics of whether this is "too much tell, not enough show" or whatever. I am not used to those kinds of discussions.

But as a reader, I must tell you that you have spent long enough making me want to know what is going on, and not enough time actually telling me what is going on. You have been doing good setup, but I (and maybe you) yearn for the delivery and satisfaction.

So, what IS going on with Ashen Weaver?

I ask this because, at one point of the story, I thought... I thought he was acting as an agent of Harmony, as a small example of a localized "chosen one" who learned of the Wolf and is being inspired to act against it. A pony in a world of cultists. But then you use too much lore coloring?

So, what does that mean? Is he using the Lores to fight the agony that stalks the world? But then why were Heart-Songs using Cadance Pink? Is this a Book Of Hours reference I entirely missed, or is this a hook that Harmony has some say in this matter?

And then there are the other questions. How did he learn about so many Lores? Why is a character who, apparently, is doing solo forays into the Mansus already knowledgeable about at least Winter and Heart (enough to intentionally invoke them), and making references to Edge, SH and Knock?

To be clear, again, I loved this story! And these are by no means attacks or harsh criticisms.

This is just, well, my opinion as a fellow writer. Because your very last comment made me think of an agony (no wolf-pun intended) that is familiar. That there is something about this story that is rubbing you off, and that you are fighting it rather than letting it write itself.
And what came to mind is exactly this: you are no longer writing jone-shots, you are weaving a story, and the body of the story as a whole feels disjointed so far. Which means you need to sit down and think a bit better about this.

You won't be happy with just writing a good scene anymore (which you can, and you do). You need it to have hooks, and hints for the future, and for it to make sense within the context of the worldbuilding and the grand arc that is in your mind.

So... congratulations I guess? You just reached the second Mark of your Ambition counter!
"Feed it and it will grow, ignore it and it will die" and all that. But be carefully, or you might end up like me, writing a huge fanfic about pastel horses for free on the internet.

Regardless, thank you for sharing this with us!

I think I'll stop this post here...

 

[Sveta08]

Now that I am less delightfully disoriented,.. About the Grail Sacrament. We have three options that some people are interested in. Pros and cons below.



Eat Spoiled Rich:
Pro: Action Economy, Nearly Available
Cons: Morally bankrupt, Broadly undeserved

Eat Velvet Hills
Pro: Narrative hooks, Expedition benefits,
Cons: Patricide, Unknown Fallout, Costs bits

Eat Random Criminal
Pro: Minimal Regret, Minimal Visibility
Cons: Opportunity Cost, Costs Ritual



There are other minor quibbles, but I think that's a bullet point list of the options.
PPersonally? Despite writing what I did, I am more partial to either Velvet Hills (that sweet sweet narrative arc) or a random criminal (Minimum problems)

 

[Nevermort]

That said, yeah, it would STILL be better to take a random psychopath instead.

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It is actually not clear to me why it would be the case. Mafia boss would certainly cause a larger number of deaths in the long run. Velvet not feeling conflicted about her deed is not positive, least she starts to justify further similar acts. "We want Velvet to eat pony and not feel bad about it" is dubious motivation.
And when it comes to generating more suspicion Velvet can literally walk through front door and investigators would conclude that it was changeling's revenge. Any paranormal abilities shown by Names would only reinforce such conclusion.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

@OurLadyOfWires can we combine both options into third? For those who want to take both. It is fine if not, just wanted to ask.

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Nah. But more because this is how Mareinette wants to play this game.

Action and reaction. If you make the time to show her you are interested, she will make the time to stay closer to show her appreciation.

It's all just a game. Because the alternative is for this to be serious.

In Which the Child Will Devour the Sky

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This certainly hits closer to home. And I am glad that Velvet here is being honest about how this is wrong, regardless of how much sugar might be used to coat it.

Thank you for writing this! The Wolf-coloring is particularly tasteful for reasons I have not yet been able to invoke in the main story. But yes... it hit very close to home.

@OurLadyOfWires Once we've studied an artifact and you said we can probably sell them with free actions, have you already decided if the price is automatic and what it is? Also are the bits usable the same turn we sell it or the turn after?

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I think individual items have an "appraised cost" in your character sheet? I has been so long I don't remember. But yes, they should sell for that price, although I might change them later on if I feel they become too easy a source of bits.



By the way, one thing came to mind.

Didn't Rarity do commissions on Turns 20 and 18? And IIRC her career roll on Turn 19 was less than stellar, given how she went to an expedition with Axe.

I will have to confirm it later, don't have my note with me right now. But I'm pretty sure she will ask you to focus on her career this turn, for safety, or that she will be at risk if she fails her roll this turn. But unless I am mistaken, and don't remember her taking a career focus recently, I am pretty sure she will ask you not to do a commission this turn.

But she's a Minion, so it's up to you really.

That's all for now. I hope you are all doing well.

 

[Greymere]

By the way, one thing came to mind.

Didn't Rarity do commissions on Turns 20 and 18? And IIRC her career roll on Turn 19 was less than stellar, given how she went to an expedition with Axe.

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T18 - Focus
T19 - Commission
T20 - Expedition
T21 - Commission

Though I will say, it's kind of difficult to tell if a turn is "didn't focus and did well on work roll" vs. "didn't focus and didn't do well on work roll" considering you don't tell us if she succeeds or not

Not for commission turns obviously since those are auto-fails, but like on the expedition turn.

Anyway, I think what this means for your plan @ses is that either the reagent scrying is dropped and DoA + Mareinette(?) are sent, or someone has to run solo (which, would rather not tbh)?

 

[ses]

Rarity cannot possibly have failed her turn 20 roll, because she would have asked to work on her career for turn 21 if so

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

T18 - Focus
T19 - Commission
T20 - Expedition
T21 - Commission

Though I will say, it's kind of difficult to tell if a turn is "didn't focus and did well on work roll" vs. "didn't focus and didn't do well on work roll" considering you don't tell us if she succeeds or not

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Rarity cannot possibly have failed her turn 20 roll, because she would have asked to work on her career for turn 21 if so

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Yeah, you guys dont need to know about every little background roll. I like it when the world feels alive and characters have their own things going on without the MC's imput.

But to your point, ses, i check "the last three months".

So at the beginning of Turn 21 i looked at what Greymere just posted and saw the "Focus" on turn 18, so Rarity was all set.

But now, slide that counter one month forward, i am looking at two Commissionsand one "cant remember how much she rolled but dont remember it being good".

So, as promised, Rarity will give you a warning at the beginning of the followers phase. Which, despite all the planning so far, should be posted tomorrow or later.

But im just thinking out loud. Ill confirm it when i sit down to prepare the followers phase, which wont be today.

Edit:
Hehe, Forge goes BRRRRR on bits supplies

 

[Nevermort]

Maybe Cadance can hire her on more permanent basis. All those commissions could not be good for her mental health. Especially her separation from Velvet during them. And it is not like we will ease on her even if we let her recover next turn.

 

[Greymere]

Technically. Technically. We have one more button we can press for bits. I won't be happy about it, considering I was the one who advocated for buying it in the first place and it ended up being completely fucking redundant because we ended up meeting Biedde on the same fucking turn but. We could liquidate the Edge 3 artifact.

Edit: Tbh, while my mind's on the topic of artifacts, I'm kind of leaning toward passing on the Edge Sacrament this turn and instead just go a bit ham on searching for expedition sites. At best, they give us relevant-leveled books and artifacts. At worst, they give us manuscript fodder and artifacts that we can pass off to Jade to turn into more bits. Maybe we can find the Castle of the Two Sisters even.

 

[ses]

Isn't that artifact the reason Mareinette can autopass Incision? Well I guess that's what reagents are for

 

[Nevermort]

But to your point, ses, i check "the last three months".

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Also if we go by last three months window

T19 - Commission
T20 - Expedition
T21 - Commission
is the same as
T20 - Expedition
T21 - Commission
T22 – Commission

Technically. Technically. We have one more button we can press for bits. I won't be happy about it, considering I was the one who advocated for buying it in the first place and it ended up being completely redundant because we ended up meeting Biedde on the same fucking turn but. We could liquidate the Edge 3 artifact.

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It is also have get out of doomed fight function. Seriously, Velvet dying due to unwillingness to renegotiate contract with Needles( in worst case scenario) would be funny.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Sarcasm. WE, we, as in Velvet
I want to see the result of the sacrament, and I believe that snubbing Our Lady and sending her off to room with our bestie is a bad and stupid thing to do.

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But it's not snubbing her. It's allowing her to continue making her current move in this game. And as I have said many times before, you can still do the Sacrament.

People ascribe a lot more impact to this vote than there is, when really it's a simple question: do you like scenes of Mareinette on the Velvet Estate more, or do you like scenes of Mareinette in Canterlot more? That should be the deciding factor here, because this vote does not affect Sacrament, and is only the smallest of steps in any relationship direction, per word of QM.

 

[Quaxotia]

[X] Rare Glow

[X] (MAREINETTE) You introduced her to Cadance, yes, but you are still very interested in her endeavors.

 

[Nevermort]

You know, Rarity Commissions are useful but they become kind of problematic lately. I mean we failed to check on Rarity last time because to them. And we made contract with Needles long ago, when Velvet was still regular noble. I don't think that firing Rarity would go like Needles think it would go, if we visit them themselves or say send Mareinette.
We wanted some money making action for Mareinette, right? Renegotiating Rarity contract for better terms probably counts. We have Needle Pin in our contacts list so it is simple social call. I'd rather increase Rarity income over turns and deal away with Commissions entirely.

 

[Greymere]

You know, Rarity Commissions are useful but they become kind of problematic lately. I mean we failed to check on Rarity last time because to them. And we made contract with Needles long ago, when Velvet was still regular noble. I don't think that firing Rarity would go like Needles think it would go, if we visit them themselves or say send Mareinette.
We wanted some money making action for Mareinette, right? Renegotiating Rarity contract for better terms probably counts. We have Needle Pin in our contacts list so it is simple social call. I'd rather increase Rarity income over turns and deal away with Commissions entirely.

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Her income doesn't really have to do with the terms of her deal w/ the Needles, though, it's because we picked the slowest growth path by giving Rarity maximum creative freedom.

If we want Mareinette to do something to boost Rarity's income, she should probably just like, go around promoting Rarity's stuff to people.

I mean I guess maybe Rarity/Mareinette could negotiate a bigger cut of the profits or something, but I recall Bird saying before about how the noble families are getting a bit clingy w/ their assets due to the recent changes. So I don't know if that would go over well.

 

[Nevermort]

Her income doesn't really have to do with the terms of her deal w/ the Needles, though, it's because we picked the slowest growth path by giving Rarity maximum creative freedom.

If we want Mareinette to do something to boost Rarity's income, she should probably just like, go around promoting Rarity's stuff to people.

I mean I guess maybe Rarity/Mareinette could negotiate a bigger cut of the profits or something, but I recall Bird saying before about how the noble families are getting a bit clingy w/ their assets due to the recent changes. So I don't know if that would go over well.

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But there is no growth at all, is what I am saying. Granted we focused on making money, but it is not something that will change anytime soon, and I don't see any other way than talk with Needles and consider options available . If CS business mechanic taught me anything is that the only way to progress your career in speedy way is to send summoned abomination to your employer.

 

[Shaper47]

I have been warning about Rarity for a while now.

Increasing her skill would probably help as would a Forge influence if we are able to spare one or two in the future. Befriended Forge Name for the win right.

But what she really needs is time to focus on her work.

 

[Nevermort]

I have been warning about Rarity for a while now.

Increasing her skill would probably help as would a Forge influence if we are able to spare one or two in the future. Befriended Forge Name for the win right.

But what she really needs is time to focus on her work.

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Work itself is the problem, as she clearly overworks and miss opportunities while she is away. Switching to something more relaxing and/or stable may be for the better here. Or go even more famous.
She already got some reputation I imagine. But it is mostly mysterious reputation. As of now her name is hidden , but some event or public reveal can shake up things and bring in more bits.