Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Sk1lz3r]

easiest read is that Gods from Stone are basically the gods of the pre-historic world, before Humanity developed Reason, which can be equated to enlightenment, and probably the advent of the Gods-From-Light.

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I'll continue to catch up to the discussion later

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IMO the Gods-from-stone are the Gods of the Carapace Cross. WE don't know how they came into being because that was before Humanity properly became a thing. But THEY might've known that, in the same way we know where the Gods-from-light or flesh come from. I don't think we as Humanity actually had anything to do with the Gods-from-stone, apart from being related to the Hours who banished them to Nowhere.

 

[Shaper47]

1) functionally infinite bits and resources
2) effectively infinite servant actions, which she can probably also use to get books and artifacts, by buying them or even expropriating them from known holders in some cases

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That doesn't really matter though?

It doesn't matter how many low level sources of lore you have if you don't have the higher sources.

Like, we could have a few hundred level one and two books and Artifacts but it still wouldn't get us any closer to level 3.

Getting higher sources of lore basically requires SH or scrying neither of which Celestia has.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

That doesn't really matter though?

It doesn't matter how many low level sources of lore you have if you don't have the higher sources.

Like, we could have a few hundred level one and two books and Artifacts but it still wouldn't get us any closer to level 3.

Getting higher sources of lore basically requires SH or scrying neither of which Celestia has.

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Ignoring that she has 1,000 years of acclimated books, artifacts. Her public libraries not even the restricted ones had lore 6 books aplenty. You can assume she has 10-20 sources of lore just from that alone.

 

[Pittauro]

Now you have me wondering if we can have Jade train the cadre for us, since she did that for the Wildhoof Club.

Edit: Hell, maybe we could even get Comet Feet on it, he was Inner Circle too.

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the +10 from a cadre would be nice. the >+15 from a trained cadre would be even better.

but I very much doubt we could convince Comet to go back to a Cult for real.

It takes "one or maybe two" turns for the Support Group to be ready, it takes another 3 full turns minimum for the Bureau to be ready. We've already committed resources to Soothe the Night and Bureau training. Maybe you think that was a mistake, and I totally understand if you do. But we're already in a situation where one turn to get a cult paying back its investment is already faster than the other investments we're currently actively making. So skipping this would make no sense.

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It's still piling up MORE costs we can ill afford right now.

Admittedly getting more AotL rituals, the +10 from a cadre, and so on, would be helpful.

but CAN we afford 1 ap per turn right now? Will we get enough back before All In to make it worth it?

2 APs over 2 turns is basically one less sacrament, just to make a comparison of what it means to us.

Remember that scene? People got really upset at that, and now we're going to repeat it. Haven't we learned through painful experience enough times that Velvet's control freak tendencies aren't actually a bad thing, but in fact exactly what is needed 99% of the time? And we get horribly horribly traumatically punished every time we decide "we wont be a control freak this time and will Trust Her(tm)".

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I think that's only part of the lesson.

People will read into our actions and act based on their wishes, inclinations, and understanding of what we want.

Trust others is not ALWAYS the wrong option. But it's important to remember that, sometimes, maybe even MOST times, it is.

Trust is valuable, and something to be spent only when it matters. and UNCONDITIONAL and ABSOLUTE trust is something that we, or anyone with REAL power, can very rarely afford.

The closest we have to someone we trust unconditionally is basically Jade. And that's because we truly believe she'd do anything for us.

I don't think it is so, but if we assume that Hour Velvet can deal with Stains and with Wolf in general then there is no reason not to do whatever we wish including taking further Stains while we are at it. Velvet will reach Glory and will banish Wolf's sons and will fix Soft, and will micromanage Wolf cult in Ponyville while at it. Is it not a logical conclusion to proposals to minimize damage right now and just leave everything to Hour Velvet? Even when it comes to taking over cult personally, who would lead it after Velvet ascends?

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Truth is that, to some extent, the means ARE the ends.

By which I mean that if you pursue noble ends, but use the very worst means to reach them... well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and if you become the kind of person that would use the worst means, your ends might end up corrupted by them.

That's, in many ways, how many dictatorships start.

Though of course Velvet is the main character.

Though, to be fair, who knows. Maybe if Velvet ACTUALLY gave up, someone else would came along that could do better than her. But we have no way of knowing that for sure, so we can only do our best.

4. The Twilight bait with Forge's Redemption.

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I'm actually wondering... it's not impossible that INSPIRATION leads to Soft recruiting Twilight, because she'd think her useful to her cause.

There was also the implication before that when she gets worse, the cult would try to recruit her... maybe that "worse" was signified by more stains and their effect on the world.

The text is very clear that if Velvet dies the Stains will stop existing, and ascending would follow the same logic as well

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Honestly that heavily imply that Velvet's death is desirable for the wellbeing of the world.

and why would the Stains disappear once she ascends? They're part of her, I doubt it's an automatically solved problem.

IMO the Gods-from-stone are the Gods of the Carapace Cross. WE don't know how they came into being because that was before Humanity properly became a thing. But THEY might've known that, in the same way we know where the Gods-from-light or flesh come from. I don't think we as Humanity actually had anything to do with the Gods-from-stone, apart from being related to the Hours who banished them to Nowhere.

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I mean, the way I see it the Carapace Cross as "the race that ruled before humanity" is basically the occult version of "they're the dinosaurs, and the gods from stone are the gods of the jurassic world".

to clarify, I meant that the Gods from Stone represent the natural world before humanity came to exist. and the advent of the Gods from Light represents humanity gaining sapience and reasoning.

After all, the Wake and the Mansus are one and the same. Events in the house are reflections of events in the real world, and vice versa.

A war between hours might be represented by a war in the wake, for example. And a paradigm shift in the real world can have a reflection in the Mansus.

Destroying the Door with the Wolf led to Paranoia being born. But if I remember right the Door was not in pristine conditions, and with times it might have crumbled on its own as a way to represent ponykind abandoning their old relationship...

Ignoring that she has 1,000 years of acclimated books, artifacts. Her public libraries not even the restricted ones had lore 6 books aplenty. You can assume she has 10-20 sources of lore just from that alone.

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and even if she didn't, she's not Velvet, our rules are not her rules.

or are you going to tell me that Comet got to the mortal cap of Edge 4 4/4 by studying books and artifacts?

She has MORE than a thousand years of experience, and now she has a high level artifact. it might very well be that she just needs to meditate and draw the right lessons from her experiences.

She's not a mortal. she's an half-Outsider Alicorn who ALSO breaks the rules, and possibly even more than Velvet.

Don't underestimate her. Reading Books and studying artifacts is Velvet's way of gaining scraps of lores, but it's not the universal method. Natural talent exists, and she has the experience to which to apply it now that she knows.

 

[Greymere]

Honestly that heavily imply that Velvet's death is desirable for the wellbeing of the world.

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This reminds me of the conversation we (the thread) had before/after/during the Burning of Canterlot. Iirc, a not uncommon sentiment at the time was that under any other circumstance, Velvet would probably deserve to stand judgement before Celestia and get ashblasted or thrown in prison (depending on her mental state). Unfortunately, Velvet is also the main character, and facing justice just means that the quest comes to an unsatisfying end.

 

[DelightedOne]

and facing justice just means that the quest comes to an unsatisfying end.

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No it doesn't? We just go play with Soft's cult(or the Bureau if we are lucky).

The world has revisited its opinion regarding the death of Velvet Covers. The Quest will no longer immediately end should Velvet Covers die. There is now somepony else that will pick up the torch. Even if that is for the worse.

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[Greymere]

No it doesn't? We just go play with Soft's cult(or the Bureau if we are lucky).

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That would a) still be an extremely unsatisfying direction for the quest to end up taking imo, esp so close to endgame, and b) was not the case during the time I was talking about.

 

[Shaper47]

or are you going to tell me that Comet got to the mortal cap of Edge 4 4/4 by studying books and artifacts?

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I'm pretty he got it via training but Velvet got Edge scraps via training too, it's edge you know.

Edge has its own special rules though.

She's not a mortal. she's an half-Outsider Alicorn who ALSO breaks the rules, and possibly even more than Velvet.

Don't underestimate her. Reading Books and studying artifacts is Velvet's way of gaining scraps of lores, but it's not the universal method. Natural talent exists, and she has the experience to which to apply it now that she knows.

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Getting higher level lore does still requires reaching higher level lore sources no matter the type.

The world is mostly devoid of those higher level sources.

Even the Master couldn't reach Mastery without access to higher level sources.

 

[Solace2117]

[X] Gift her tools.

Fine with this or influence. At this level of Stains and with Soft Sweeps as she is now, I don't expect this to be an issue and we really need to focus on Sacraments. I'm fine with influence as long as we get Mayor Mare up to close friend next turn.

As much fun as it would be to try to take over all the cults I think we're near enough to the end game that it's just not worth it. Besides I think as long as we don't do anymore RAs and can get to Glory with only a few mistakes I actually don't think the Cult will be that bad considering Ourladyofwires comments. Also if we want to not have to commit RAs we need friendly Names and Sacraments.

 

[Nevermort]

So what is negative consequences of giving Tools to Wolf cult? Every other option have negative consequence, be it loss of actions on Velvet part or increase of Wolf influence. And we know that it is not really choose your reward vote. So if people convinced that Soft cult would not start casting EiB and summon ghouls what exactly is downside here? I don't quite believe that it is somehow only vote without negative consequences, but I don't think that there was agreement on what they are.

 

[Cochimetl]

So what is negative consequences of giving Tools to Wolf cult? Every other option have negative consequence, be it loss of actions on Velvet part or increase of Wolf influence. And we know that it is not really choose your reward vote. So if people convinced that Soft cult would not start casting EiB and summon ghouls what exactly is downside here? I don't quite believe that it is somehow only vote without negative consequences, but I don't think that there was agreement on what they are.

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I think the negative consequences are the potential harm they could be doing with those rituals. They are going to use them, after all.
Maybe they won't summon Windigos and Ash Ghouls. Maybe. But the potential is there.

Also, it once again leaves records about things she is not meant to know in her hoofwriting outside of her control.

 

[Shaper47]

Also, it once again leaves records about things she is not meant to know in her hoofwriting outside of her control.

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???

How so?

She's teaching Soft Sweeps who will in turn spread the knowledge to her little friends.

It's not like she's giving the Sweeps cult her direct notes in writing.

 

[Cochimetl]

???

How so?

She's teaching Soft Sweeps who will in turn spread the knowledge to her little friends.

It's not like she's giving the Sweeps cult her direct notes in writing.

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So Soft Sweeps is going to learn all the rituals by heart?
I could be wrong about this. @OurLadyOfWires, am I?

 

[AuthorTransient]

[] Gift her inspiration.
-"There is a reason why "Caput" is the first word in His invocation."
-Velvet Covers will come to understand the effects of Regrettable Actions on the world, as if she had performed a fourth Regrettable Action and crossed the "midway point".
-Velvet Covers will gain the Trait [XVI:18-19], which will have the following effects:

Spoiler: XVI:18-19

Soft Sweeps will narratively begin to act as if she has "one more Stain than in the current counter". However, mechanically, she will continue to have the same number of Stains Velvet Covers has.

-She will understand exactly what it is that you want. And you will be so proud of her.
-This is NOT a Regrettable Action.

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[] Give her nothing.
-"You regret this, you regret all of this."
-You will not be refunded your action point for this.
-"Dire consequences" will ensue, as if you had chosen not to spend time with Soft Sweeps and fulfill your promise.
-But oh, the inspiration this will give your daughter.
-This is NOT a Regrettable Action.

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Okay, took a second look at the options and. Apologies, because I'm writing this on my phone. There's a word here of 'inspiration' that occurs in both the first and last options, which makes me think that 1, inspiration is probably bad, and 2, that the last option might advance Softy's stain count by two.

[] Gift her tools.
-"Whatever it is you desire to do, these are the means to do it."
-Soft Sweeps (and through her, her congregation) will learn all the usable rituals you currently know.
-Rites that can no longer be used, or that have not yet been fully researched, will not be taught.
-You will not give her any directions of what to do, exactly. And she will understand that you trust her, and that this is a test.

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And while I also don't quite like the idea that Softy would be thinking we're testing her, I suppose that would be better than the above options.

[X] Gift her tools.
[X] Gift her influence.
[X] Gift her freedom.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Ongoing tally for the sake of information.

Adhoc vote count started by OurLadyOfWires on Nov 26, 2025 at 5:22 PM, finished with 159 posts and 27 votes.

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  13 people have voted

  [X] Gift her tools.

  • Greymere
  • Rafuki22
  • Sintonir
  • keykigdom
  • Talon Tiger Dino
  • Anjaxis
  • Sk1lz3r
  • Portec
  • Solace2117
  • Shaper47
  • Limabot
  • des-pair-2
  • AuthorTransient

  12 people have voted

  [X] Gift her influence.

  • Shaper47
  • spiderhellian
  • Potdl
  • Biowolf
  • Limabot
  • des-pair-2
  • AuthorTransient
  • Nevermort
  • IronHydra
  • Cochimetl
  • Talon Tiger Dino
  • SilentPencil

  10 people have voted

  [X] Gift her freedom.

  • ses
  • DelightedOne
  • Random Anon
  • Venerable Ro
  • Greymere
  • Limabot
  • des-pair-2
  • AuthorTransient
  • Cochimetl
  • SilentPencil

  8 people have voted

  [X] Gift her inspiration.

  • Shaper47
  • Arrkhon
  • Bakkasama
  • Darkday
  • spiderhellian
  • Nevermort
  • IronHydra
  • Cochimetl

Vote will close in less rhan 24 hours, depending on when i sit down to write what comes next.
Ill obviously also answer the pings i saw before that.

Laters.

 

[Nevermort]

I think the negative consequences are the potential harm they could be doing with those rituals. They are going to use them, after all.
Maybe they won't summon Windigos and Ash Ghouls. Maybe. But the potential is there.

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I think we should not expect them not to use knowledge that we will give them, we are told that Soft will consider it test after all.
I think bare minimum are Risens. Given that cult consist of ponies who lost loved ones and would want them back, I would not be surprised if they are actively used.
Ponyville – soon to be necromancy capital of Equestria

 

[spiderhellian]

Giving the cult tools feels like handing AK-47s to a kindergarten classroom. They're a danger to themselves, they're a danger to others, and no one is going to have a good time.