Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Sk1lz3r]

I do wonder about the other Victories…
We have a straight shot at Glory and a pretty decent understanding of Mother of Wolves.

I wonder how much effort the Moon Victory would have been. SH sacrament and then climb the tower in the blank plains to access to moon and go from there? But the outcome is somewhat expected with returning to how it once was.

What intrigues me the most is the Harmony Victory. What would it have entailed? What would it look like? It is one of the regrets I have that I only found out about this quest so late, having lost the privilige to vote on so many crucial decisions.

 

[DelightedOne]

The Harmony aspect really hasn't been relevant

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Meh, I think living next door to the Tree of Harmony and in the same town as the Elements(even if Magic is dimmed) would make some small difference, Pinkie would definitely notice something about them and start something to make them happier(she clocked Starlight's village/cult the moment she saw their smiles). Could be part of the reason why some of them left.

And I also have this small theory the Elements we befriended change the narrative someway. With Rarity and Fluttershy making some Generosity and Kindness storylines possible, that is also part of the reason I wanted Applejack as a Confidante, some Honesty would go a long way with Velvet.

 

[Pittauro]

Axe was literally designed to solo long expeditions. This is what she's there for.

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I'd argue most Long expeditions are not quite meant to be soloed, but if someone hasto do it, it would definitely be Axe (or Mareinette).

and admittedly we have enough Artifacts as to make it fairly viable.

...I really want to finish Canterlot expedition sometimes...

BTRC3 isn't the key to a Name's permanent loyalty, and it's never been anywhere close to a priority. Long expeditions, especially one for a Level 7 book, are also going to be more difficult. The exact kind of situation where the oomph of sending more than a single Name is absolutely warranted.

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We don't KNOW if it's going to be more difficult, but yeah, it's definitely (and sadly for me) more important.

Name friendships mean they give us a second action (extremely valuable), they become permanent (which saves us money and AP on resummonings), they get a narrative and mechanical buff (see Axe healing 1 wound each turn, using influences more easily, and being more helpful narratively in general)...

and we definitely need to prioritize the Names over Canterlot. Which means lvl 7 book, and lvl 6 forge reagent to make into nuclear fuel an ingot of blue gold.

Getting Names friendly sooner means getting more actions, after all, beside everything else. And of course Loyal Names are the best help we'll get when we go All In.

So, since the narrative side is grey, and the mechanical side tells me "yeah", I'm comfortable with "yes, Risen can lead expeditions."

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Good to know. Feels a bit weird, but I suppose I can see it working as a "The Risen will steal all the needed supplies" and walk through wild land instead of taking the train. I think last time each Name made its own way to Manehattan anyway. Axe at the very least showed narrative teleportation-equivalent (as befits Knock), and I wouldn't be surprised if Baldomare can move at the speed of light / thought.

465 - 140 = 355

You'd need Rarity to gather 155 bits which is more then she's even gotten us via commission and even then the math doesn't add up to send Axe on a Medium and Long term expedition in the same turn.

So you'd probably end up a handful of bits short and definitely one Axe ap short.

Unless of course you think one of the highest level Reagents is going to be found on a short expedition?

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It very well might, admittedly. the lvl 6 book for Baldomare was a short expedition, after all, wasn't it?

If we become desperate enough we could sell artifacts, though of course we should try to avoid that.

Winter gives few bits, Lantern and SH are extremely useful for rituals... I suppose we could in theory sell the Heartifact? that's 200 bits, if it ever makes THAT much of a difference.

I don't want to, but to be fair we're likely to get FAR more out of many expeditions we'd sell it for.

3) It might be short, it might be medium. Who knows. I think it could be a short expedition seeing as we've literally already seen that it is possible for Level 6 items to be found on short (and easy) expeditions. Either way, Selene can handle it. Or if you really don't want to spend 2 AP on a medium expedition, have someone else lead and spend 1 Selene AP to follow. Again, unlikely to actually use up the full bit cost, but honestly I'd rather just eat the -2 Selene AP for the turn. Worth it for Forge Name Friendship.

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Side note, I think like Selene and a name (Axe or Mareinette) alone are more than enough for the Canterlot expedition.

and, in general, I don't think any expedition REALLY requires more than two of our (strong) followers/summons.

We should keep in mind that it's FINE if we lose against SOME obstacles. Most of them just result in delays or minor wounds. Better to pass everything on first attempt, sure, but sometimes the extra AP and bits cost is not worth it.

4) As I said, my suggested team is Mareinette + DoA + Cherenkolt (Mini). This is estimated to cost 240 bits, not 360, and even if you did also send Biedde (or Selene) along to bump the allocated bits up to 360, the chance of them actually using up all of the allocated bits are looooow considering how stacked that team is.

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Mini Cherenkolt means giving up his action though...

And considering we have confirmation they will start killing outside of their mini cult

Yeah, they are getting worse, maybe not regretably but mundanely. And once more we only have ourselves to blame.

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That's not confirmation, Bird is just offering some possible answers.

We don't know which one will be true until it happens. Which is NOT to say they're definitely harmless, they MIGHT very well kill someone.

But they might also not.

I do wonder about the other Victories…
We have a straight shot at Glory and a pretty decent understanding of Mother of Wolves.

I wonder how much effort the Moon Victory would have been. SH sacrament and then climb the tower in the blank plains to access to moon and go from there? But the outcome is somewhat expected with returning to how it once was.

What intrigues me the most is the Harmony Victory. What would it have entailed? What would it look like? It is one of the regrets I have that I only found out about this quest so late, having lost the privilige to vote on so many crucial decisions.

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There's realistically zero chance of us going for Harmony before Glory, obviously... but I wonder if we might be able to fit the Tower that Leads to the Moon in our plans in the next few turns.

Even if we don't go for the House of the Moon ending, there's likely to be some rewards in the way after all.

Lore Scraps, rituals, summons, reagents or artifacts...

 

[Greymere]

Mini Cherenkolt means giving up his action though...

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Mini Cherenkolt also means that he can lend his Lore levels to both the book and the reagent expeditions as a pseudo-artifact, and won't cost anything extra to bring. Note that our only other source of Forge Lore for expeditions is... Rarity. Who is a) Forge 1, and b) much more useful making more bits for us than lending only a +5 to Forge expedition rolls.

 

[Shaper47]

If we become desperate enough we could sell artifacts, though of course we should try to avoid that.

Winter gives few bits, Lantern and SH are extremely useful for rituals... I suppose we could in theory sell the Heartifact? that's 200 bits, if it ever makes THAT much of a difference.

I don't want to, but to be fair we're likely to get FAR more out of many expeditions we'd sell it for.

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I also forgot probable medicine costs (quickly add that in) but yeah befriending our Forge Name first is probably better given our financial state.

I kinda want to gift the Winter artifact to Celestia/Eclipse, might even get some bits from them as reimbursement or at least use it as an excuse to reimburse ourselves with bits from the Bureau.

But yeah just selling it for bits is a valid possibility.

Side note, I think like Selene and a name (Axe or Mareinette) alone are more than enough for the Canterlot expedition.

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For cool emotional reasons I want Velvet and Selene on that expedition. Hell if we had the bits I'd send along Jade.

There's probably secret benefits for sending Selene and Velvet could probably pick up a lore scrap or two from the adventure.

I don't want to, but to be fair we're likely to get FAR more out of many expeditions we'd sell it for.

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Speaking of getting stuff out of expeditions I had an idea.

(P.s. Consider it seriously please on the objective merits not emotional knee-jerks.)

Grab the Watchpony Mirror expedition.

Almost certainly a short expedition so Names being added on for free with one Velvet ap as leader.

We'd need probably Baldomare to scry it (maybe turn 23) for the most likely requirements.

We'd need Celestia distracted.

We'd need a way through the Locks/Wards.

We'd need to convince and trick Eclipse into letting us grab it.

To start with if our Moth Sacrament is anything like what we expect we can probably have Velvet pretend to be Celestia. Mareinette can pretend to be Cadance (preferably while Cadence is publicly seen elsewhere). Our Lady of Wires then can probably convince them to hand the Mirror over to their boss.

For the way through. Velvet has Knock 5 and if we can ask Axe to borrow the Frangiclave (Mareinette will hold it for the expedition) we can almost certainly get in. Silky might have to give her the eyes and it might take up one of Axes ap.

Now for the distraction as Celestia probably the only obstacle unaccounted for so far.

Alright so the Visiting a Competitor mentioned that it was a gang. Which means there's probably around seven ponies there who we (Velvet and Biedde) can knock out and grab. Then just spend a Velvet ap and 25 bits to make/Summon a max level Ash-Ghoul. (Pretty sure they can be used in the turn their summoned.

Boom, just send the Ash-Ghoul at Celestia while Velvet and Mareinette steal the Mirror. (Maybe Biedde as backup distraction if Celestia finishes fast)

We can even divert suspicion onto the Changelings by planting evidence at Tall Tale that the Changelings were planning an attack on Celestia with some sort of bribed Ash monster (Ash-Ghoul).

@OurLadyOfWires This kind of plot valid? I.e. Can we plant evidence at Tall Tale suggesting a planed Changeling attack on Celestia? Can Velvet borrow the Frangiclave from Axe for an expedition? Can Velvet summon an Ash-Ghoul using the gang members from the Visiting a Competitor expedition (i.e. narratively the action would happen straight after the expedition/defeated the gang members so they're not kept prisoner but used straight away).

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

No, we absolutely should not gift the cursed artifact to Celestia or Eclipse, because the curse is normal pony magic and will get caught immediately, leading to awkward questions as to why we gave them a cursed candle snuffer for no reason.

As for stealing the Watchpony's Glass, I have no desire to take another hammer to Celestia's headspace by attacking her with a horrible monster of dead ponies and looting her innermost sanctum. Especially since she is currently judging all of ponykind and this would register as a complete and total failure.

And that could lead to Daybreaker and a worldwide malus that negatively affects everything Velvet does, which is a headache I'd rather not bother with.

 

[Shaper47]

No, we absolutely should not gift the cursed artifact to Celestia or Eclipse, because the curse is normal pony magic and will get caught immediately, leading to awkward questions as to why we gave them a cursed candle snuffer for no reason.

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It kinda depends on how much they know of the lores and how much they know that we know of the lores.

Basically it's Velvet's 'How did you get here?' trait being put into effect

The Bureau does have the lores (not sure how much Celestia/Eclipse knows about that though), Cadence has the basics of the lores (I would be surprised if Celestia missed that)

So how it would work is Velvet finding a level 4 artifact for Winter and gifting it to them (Given how they're relying on an artifact I think they know what artifacts are even if they don't have the background learning to find them unlike Velvet).

So the reasoning is more if Velvet knows about the lores from Cadence, then Velvet can find and buy with her personal money an artifact. An artifact that she then gives to those who can make proper use of it i.e Celestia/Eclipse.

Velvet is above all suspicion afterall so her giving a level 4 artfact is just her being helpful. And if it turns out to be cursed, well that's not Velvet's fault she just found the thing it's not her job to investigate cursed lore objects that's the Eclipse job. Maybe they should have done their job instead of it being used immediately without proper testing.

It's only something that works once Celestia has reasonable cause to suspect Velvet officially knows of the lores having learnt in it in the course of her duties.

Benefits involve shady kickbacks, appearing to be helpful to Celestia/Eclipse and secretly attempting to sabotage Celestia/Eclipse.

As for stealing the Watchpony's Glass, I have no desire to take another hammer to Celestia's headspace by attacking her with a horrible monster of dead ponies and looting her innermost sanctum. Especially since she is currently judging all of ponykind and this would register as a complete and total failure.

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Umm, your contradicting your reasoning here?

If your concern is over Celestia's headspace then you'd want the brutally negative mental effects of the Watchpony's Mirror away from her. Also there's the nasty mental side effects of jumping up lantern levels as fast as one can.

The negative effects of a single fight are pretty minor compared to constantly bathing in the light of a level 7 lantern artifact.

Lantern is merciless afterall and having a merciless force constantly shinning on flaws is very much not good for Celestia's judgement filled headspace.

And that could lead to Daybreaker and a worldwide malus that negatively affects everything Velvet does, which is a headache I'd rather not bother with.

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I heavily doubt that's going to happen.

Even I'm not that paranoid to think that mearly one semi successful move against Celestia will have her lose it.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

But the curse on the candle snuffer is not lore-based. It's normal pony magic, which any sort of security check is going to catch. Stuff that the Bureau is meant to catch, and will lead to people asking why we didn't.

As for headspace, breaking into somebody's sanctum and stealing one of their most valuable possessions is absolutely going to worsen their mental state. Lantern may be merciless, but Daybreaker is more than just a Celestia without mercy; it is Celestia turned wroth, and I would rather not set off any rage when she is still sitting on an invisible fence post.

 

[Shaper47]

But the curse on the candle snuffer is not lore-based. It's normal pony magic, which any sort of security check is going to catch. Stuff that the Bureau is meant to catch, and will lead to people asking why we didn't.

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Because Velvet isn't a magical researcher and is a busy mare with stuff to do and just noticed that it had the stuff (Winter) that Eclipse/Celestia was looking for?

Even if the find the curse it's not like they have equivalent artifacts so they'll probably use it anyway.

Besides it wouldn't interfere with any kickbacks.

As for headspace, breaking into somebody's sanctum and stealing one of their most valuable possessions is absolutely going to worsen their mental state. Lantern may be merciless, but Daybreaker is more than just a Celestia without mercy; it is Celestia turned wroth, and I would rather not set off any rage when she is still sitting on an invisible fence post.

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I think your underestimating the effect of a Lantern 7 artifact and overestimating the effect of the attack/theft.

Besides for all we know having the opportunity to let loose in a fight will let her expelle some of her anger.

 

[Pittauro]

Mini Cherenkolt also means that he can lend his Lore levels to both the book and the reagent expeditions as a pseudo-artifact, and won't cost anything extra to bring. Note that our only other source of Forge Lore for expeditions is... Rarity. Who is a) Forge 1, and b) much more useful making more bits for us than lending only a +5 to Forge expedition rolls.

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Very good point. If we're only going to use him for an expedition in that turn, then the artifact form allows us to save bits for it, as long as we're sending a Name with a better general bonus to which we'd add his lore bonuses.

I also forgot probable medicine costs (quickly add that in) but yeah befriending our Forge Name first is probably better given our financial state.

I kinda want to gift the Winter artifact to Celestia/Eclipse, might even get some bits from them as reimbursement or at least use it as an excuse to reimburse ourselves with bits from the Bureau.

But yeah just selling it for bits is a valid possibility.

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Generally speaking Name Friendship is our highest priority, as it translates to more Name APs as well as more useful Names AND removes their upkeep cost. That means our highest priorities are, in no particular order, Mareinette's Sacrament, the lvl 7 book, and the Ingot of Blue Gold.

Second priority is a bit harder to define, basically everything else (Bits, Artifacts, Velvet APs, more summons, more lore scraps) is of value, it depends on circumstances. Sacraments are fairly up there of course, as they give us options.

And on that note I hope we can summon a Mare in the Light soonish, as well as explore a bit more of the Mansus... but we obviously have more important things to do. Including the various expeditions we have available, considering just how much of a return they have offered so far.


We're doing Tall Tale now (with the Bureau).

We'll have to do Forge 6 Reagent and lvl 7 book next turn.

There's Canterlot Part 3, the 3 Manehattan Short Expeditions, Baldomare's SH Sacrament expedition (though really that one is more in the Sacrament category).

And of course there's the Mansus expeditions too, the Tower and the Ruined Church, if/when we can afford it. Who knows, maybe the Knock Sacrament will allow for shortcuts there?

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Speaking of getting stuff out of expeditions I had an idea.

(P.s. Consider it seriously please on the objective merits not emotional knee-jerks.)

Grab the Watchpony Mirror expedition.

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Thing is, I don't think we can reliably separate Celestia from the Mirror. I'd be completely unsurprised if she slept in its presence and never let it out of her sight.

As for the "ask Axe to lend us the Frangiclave", I think she'd NEVER do it. There's a non-zero chance that without it the Chains would come back, and even if not she'd likely fear that or a similar imprisonment. She'll NEVER let the Frangiclave out of her snakey hold.

Alright so the Visiting a Competitor mentioned that it was a gang. Which means there's probably around seven ponies there who we (Velvet and Biedde) can knock out and grab. Then just spend a Velvet ap and 25 bits to make/Summon a max level Ash-Ghoul. (Pretty sure they can be used in the turn their summoned.

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no.

just no.

I reject any plan involving Ash Ghouls that doesn't have them be absolutely necessary. I consider them nearly on par with Regrettable Actions in terms of how much I DON'T want to use them.

Keep in mind that, even if the situation warranted the use of this very worst kind of blood-sacrifice to summon the very worst monsters... Their use will NOT be subtle. there WILL be lots of collateral damage and casualties.

Like, the one case I can right now imagine the use of Ash Ghouls being somewhat justified would be in open war against a genocidal enemy, basically.

No, we absolutely should not gift the cursed artifact to Celestia or Eclipse, because the curse is normal pony magic and will get caught immediately, leading to awkward questions as to why we gave them a cursed candle snuffer for no reason.

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Also we'd have to explain HOW we recognized the lore magic in it. Eclipse doesn't yet know of our competence, and right now them suspecting (CELESTIA suspecting) is a potential game over scenario.

Velvet is above all suspicion afterall

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Until she's not.

Umm, your contradicting your reasoning here?

If your concern is over Celestia's headspace then you'd want the brutally negative mental effects of the Watchpony's Mirror away from her. Also there's the nasty mental side effects of jumping up lantern levels as fast as one can.

The negative effects of a single fight are pretty minor compared to constantly bathing in the light of a level 7 lantern artifact.

Lantern is merciless afterall and having a merciless force constantly shinning on flaws is very much not good for Celestia's judgement filled headspace.

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A normal fight, sure.

A fight against a wolf-powered monstruosity, made of the bodies and blood and lives or her ponies, so monstruous that inflicting a wound on it will trigger a post-fight roll with DC 100+"number of ponies sacrificed to make it" to not get a stack of DREAD...

NO.

But the curse on the candle snuffer is not lore-based. It's normal pony magic, which any sort of security check is going to catch. Stuff that the Bureau is meant to catch, and will lead to people asking why we didn't.

As for headspace, breaking into somebody's sanctum and stealing one of their most valuable possessions is absolutely going to worsen their mental state. Lantern may be merciless, but Daybreaker is more than just a Celestia without mercy; it is Celestia turned wroth, and I would rather not set off any rage when she is still sitting on an invisible fence post.

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mh... you know, this makes me wonder if it might be possible to REMOVE the curse on it.

actually... @OurLadyOfWires I don't suppose we could use Redemption of the Forge to remove the curse, or try to buy the services of a Curse-breaker?

 

[Arrkhon]

mh... you know, this makes me wonder if it might be possible to REMOVE the curse on it.

actually... @OurLadyOfWires I don't suppose we could use Redemption of the Forge to remove the curse, or try to buy the services of a Curse-breaker?

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Can't we just like
Give them the item AND tell them that it's cursed in addition to being a fancy Winter item?

 

[DelightedOne]

So are we just assuming Eclipse already figured out Winter exists? Cause it seems like they only discovered Lantern or at the very least no other of Celestia's lores.

In that case Velvet giving a Winter 4 Artifact will seem very suspicious, especially when Midday Dew did not share anything about the lores with her in their last meeting.

And then you try to get him to tell you about his work.

And when that fails, you accept that he will not tell you anything that you really want to know. Not even a hint. Not even a slip of the tongue that could help you confirm something you already suspect.

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And we are trying to seem relatively ignorant of lores.

Buuuut, we are also loring up the Bureau, so Celestia could be a bit suspicious anyway. Maybe we can use the primer as an excuse, at least for the lores we already shared? And then play the "genius of the lores" card like we planned to do before?

Oh, and about the order of lores we teach. I want to do a reverse subversion chain on this, we started with Edge and now we're doing Forge and Lantern, so maybe next turn we do Moth and Grail then Heart and Winter and finish everything with SH and Knock. Would that be okay?

 

[Pittauro]

Can't we just like
Give them the item AND tell them that it's cursed in addition to being a fancy Winter item?

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the problem is explaning how we found it, and then (and more importantly) how we knew it was both Wintery and Cursed.

Velvet is not a magical researcher, nor is she part of Eclipse.

She's a formerly-civilian cop-administrator.

It inherently make her a bit more suspicious.

IF we just wanted to give them the artifact, the easiest way would be to fake finding it in Tall Tale. SELLING it to them is more difficult.

Buuuut, we are also loring up the Bureau, so Celestia could be a bit suspicious anyway. Maybe we can use the primer as an excuse, at least for the lores we already shared? And then play the "genius of the lores" card like we planned to do before?

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Celestia is not keeping close tabs on the Bureau, which is why the lore-ification will mostly go unnoticed.

As for the genius-of-the-lores card... it's a SOMEWHAT reasonable explanation, but it would require us to not only HIDE our lores from her, but to let slip a false "partial" and "growing" understanding every time we meet her.

Like, she checked us with Lantern last time, and we hid all of it. If anything the genius-of-the-lores plan is HARDER to pull off now.

Especially because, as Bird pointed out last time, Celestia is currently NOT rational. She'll fire laser-beams first, and ask questions later, if she finds us ACTUALLY suspicious. Or at least that's a very real risk.

MAYBE if Selene comes up with an idea and assists us? She might be able to come up with some kind of "Actually Velvet hid me on my request, and I have been studying these lores with her".

...Maybe we could have SELENE having been the one to teach us, actually? She might pretend she had started learning them before Nightmare Moon... She WAS keeping secrets at the time...

 

[DelightedOne]

Celestia is not keeping close tabs on the Bureau, which is why the lore-ification will mostly go unnoticed.

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Huh, forgot about that. Thanks.

Especially because, as Bird pointed out last time, Celestia is currently NOT rational. She'll fire laser-beams first, and ask questions later, if she finds us ACTUALLY suspicious. Or at least that's a very real risk.

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Now I'm scared for Cadance, but I'm hopeful she won't try to smite a fellow Alicorn on sight.

...Maybe we could have SELENE having been the one to teach us, actually? She might pretend she had started learning them before Nightmare Moon... She WAS keeping secrets at the time...

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That actually makes sense. Selene already learned that to protect your loved ones you need to lie to them sometimes so I think it would fit that she would lie to her sister if it would save her mother's life.

 

[Greymere]

Oh, and about the order of lores we teach. I want to do a reverse subversion chain on this, we started with Edge and now we're doing Forge and Lantern, so maybe next turn we do Moth and Grail then Heart and Winter and finish everything with SH and Knock. Would that be okay?

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It really doesn't make any sense to do it that way. Especially in regards to Secret Histories, which is one of the most useful Lores for them to have next to Lantern; leaving it until the end is just making them worse at their jobs for no real reason.

I'd say we go for Grail + Secret Histories next turn. This gets them access to the Forge's Redemption (for Shining) and the Reflection of the Tapestry (the objectively most useful ritual for them to know) the moment they're at the point where those in-the-know can do rituals. Plus, Secret Histories, Lantern, and Grail cover most aspects of "investigation" between them.

 

[Pittauro]

Now I'm scared for Cadance, but I'm hopeful she won't try to smite a fellow Alicorn on sight.

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to be fair they don't meet often right now, with Celestia being basically a hermit. I think the only ones who routinely interact with her are SOME of the Eclipse researchers.

...and, as a distant second... probably Velvet herself, really.

That actually makes sense. Selene already learned that to protect your loved ones you need to lie to them sometimes so I think it would fit that she would lie to her sister if it would save her mother's life.

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The problem there, even ignoring that Velvet SOMEHOW surpassed Selene in this... and that it's still a MASSIVE coincidence that Selene's secret knowledge is the same kind of thing the cult that attacked her later on used...

...is that Velvet knows Lores Selene doesn't.

and, of course, Celestia is NOT rational right now. She might assume Selene is possessed or corrupted by this dark magic, or who knows what else.

Still, IF it comes down to it, it's better than nothing.

 

[DelightedOne]

...is that Velvet knows Lores Selene doesn't.

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That is like the easiest part.

"Some ponies don't have the capacity to use certain Principles with ease. Velvet Covers is a notable exception and as such has extensive knowledge and talent in all of them".

All Selene has to say is that even though she can't use the rest of the lores she is still aware of them and can point Velvet in the right direction.

I'd say we go for Grail + Secret Histories next turn.

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What about Moth + SH? Those are also useful for the Bureau.

And I would like to see sneaky detectives too.