Exalted 3E Discussion

Jarudazuigu · Nov 18, 2016

Nekraa ... we are talking apples and oranges, I see.

I talk about Creation-Born that, somehow, transforms into Primordial in the Wyld. It's not impossible.But for the former Joe Nobody Nr2345534 it means "end" as human and beginning as Hentacle That Rapes The Heavens, Primordial, It Who Squirts A Lot On Your Face.

You talk about big-fuck-huge Wyld Mutant who believes himself to be Primordial like ... but lacks the Metaphysical Weight like the "real ones". And retains enough of "humanity template" that when Creation tries to remove the warped parts, it ends in death and reset.

And I am not talking about Bordermarches, it's just warped Creation or Middle Marches, still in Creation or even Deep Wyld wich is a border of Creation. I am speaking about true-blue Pure Chaos the part of the Wyld where the only part of Creation you have is what you bring with yourself. Namely, you.

Valette-Serafina said:
Several remain. Creation remains the centre of the universe, time continues to flow in one direction only, and the defences of the Exalted cannot be overcome.

That is bull and you know it. Creation isn't a centre of the "universe". It's too small, metaphysically and physically. It is designed as anti-Wyld vacation house for Primordials and nothing more.
Exalted and gods of Creation are too wimpy, metaphysically speaking, to change Creation to fit their naive beliefs. Some of them barely understand what Creation really is, if that much.

Raksha ... you forgot that those that come in contact with Creation are changed and warped by it? The whole obsession spiel from the fluff.

Defenses that cannot be overcome?! Then I guess all those Balorian Crusades and stuff was imagined. Or all those Exalted going into Wyld and mutating into monsters, or dissapearing with only Exaltation returning ... are pipe dreams.
The "time-can-go-one-way" is a bullshit agreement between defeated Primordials and victorious Exalted Host. Otherwise Primordials could push the rewind button time and again till preferable result happens.
There is also mention of using temporal weaponry that messed Creation up so badly that even Exalted didn't wish to use it no more.

As far as I am aware the only rules that apply in the Wyld, the Pure Chaos one I mentioned, are those you enforce yourself and Shinmaic ones.

Nekraa · Nov 18, 2016

Jarudazuigu said:
Nekraa ... we are talking apples and oranges, I see.

I talk about Creation-Born that, somehow, transforms into Primordial in the Wyld. It's not impossible.But for the former Joe Nobody Nr2345534 it means "end" as human and beginning as Hentacle That Rapes The Heavens, Primordial, It Who Squirts A Lot On Your Face.

You talk about big-fuck-huge Wyld Mutant who believes himself to be Primordial like ... but lacks the Metaphysical Weight like the "real ones". And retains enough of "humanity template" that when Creation tries to remove the warped parts, it ends in death and reset.

And I am not talking about Bordermarches, it's just warped Creation or Middle Marches, still in Creation or even Deep Wyld wich is a border of Creation. I am speaking about true-blue Pure Chaos the part of the Wyld where the only part of Creation you have is what you bring with yourself. Namely, you.

And you're still wrong.

It is impossible. A human can not become a primordial through the Wyld.

You're welcome to cite proof for it though.

Jarudazuigu said:
That is bull and you know it. Creation isn't a centre of the "universe". It's too small, metaphysically and physically. It is designed as anti-Wyld vacation house for Primordials and nothing more.
Exalted and gods of Creation are too wimpy, metaphysically speaking, to change Creation to fit their naive beliefs. Some of them barely understand what Creation really is, if that much.

Raksha ... you forgot that those that come in contact with Creation are changed and warped by it? The whole obsession spiel from the fluff.

Defenses that cannot be overcome?! Then I guess all those Balorian Crusades and stuff was imagined. Or all those Exalted going into Wyld and mutating into monsters, or dissapearing with only Exaltation returning ... are pipe dreams.
The "time-can-go-one-way" is a bullshit agreement between defeated Primordials and victorious Exalted Host. Otherwise Primordials could push the rewind button time and again till preferable result happens.
There is also mention of using temporal weaponry that messed Creation up so badly that even Exalted didn't wish to use it no more.

As far as I am aware the only rules that apply in the Wyld, the Pure Chaos one I mentioned, are those you enforce yourself and Shinmaic ones.

... So, do you only know of Exalted through memes?

Skitzyfrenic · Nov 18, 2016

There's this thing that allows the Exalted to shape Creation and change its rules. it's called sorcery.

Valette-Serafina · Nov 18, 2016

Jarudazuigu said:
That is bull and you know it. Creation isn't a centre of the "universe". It's too small, metaphysically and physically. It is designed as anti-Wyld vacation house for Primordials and nothing more.

No, it is. That's its fundamental nature. The wyld surrounds Creation.
That is why the Raksha hate it.

Creation is the only constant. Reality was bent during its creation.

Raksha ... you forgot that those that come in contact with Creation are changed and warped by it? The whole obsession spiel from the fluff.

Raksha are changed and warped by everything.

Defenses that cannot be overcome?! Then I guess all those Balorian Crusades and stuff was imagined.

Remember how that worked out? Do you?

Or all those Exalted going into Wyld and mutating into monsters, or dissapearing with only Exaltation returning ... are pipe dreams.

No, that happens. Rarely. It's not a result of their defences being overcome, however. It's a result of weakness of will, trickery, or simple lack of preparation.

There is no unshaped who can overcome a shaping defence.

The "time-can-go-one-way" is a bullshit agreement between defeated Primordials and victorious Exalted Host. Otherwise Primordials could push the rewind button time and again till preferable result happens.

It's not exactly an agreement. Rather, it's an alteration of the way the universe works.

If it were within the power of the Yozi, they would go back. Thus, they cannot.

There is also mention of using temporal weaponry that messed Creation up so badly that even Exalted didn't wish to use it no more.

The Time of Cascading Years tells us just how much the Exalted of the first age cared about consequence.

As far as I am aware the only rules that apply in the Wyld, the Pure Chaos one I mentioned, are those you enforce yourself and Shinmaic ones.

And the passage of time, and the existence of Creation.

Sydonai · Nov 18, 2016

Jarudazuigu said:
Defenses that cannot be overcome?! Then I guess all those Balorian Crusades and stuff was imagined. Or all those Exalted going into Wyld and mutating into monsters, or dissapearing with only Exaltation returning ... are pipe dreams.

I think that was a reference to the Primacy of Defense still being a thing.

Anasurimbor said:
Oh, which ones? I can't really recall anything like that.

Jarudazuigu said:
Lack of reliable-to-learn Thaumaturgy means that some nations that heavily rely on it have less sense. I recall there was one wich used Art of Astrology for everything. With each Astrological Procedure now needing a Speshul Snowflake training your doods, one at time, the whole reliance on the Art becomes ... bothersome.

There is also Sijan, all those funerary rites that they are famous for are Thaumaturgical Procedures.
IIRC The new fluff even mentions this, saying that Sijan can barely function because there are never enough Thaumaturges that know the correct rituals.

Valette-Serafina · Nov 18, 2016

Sydonai said:
I think that was a reference to the Primacy of Defense still being a thing.

It is.

There is also Sijan, all those funerary rites that they are famous for are Thaumaturgical Procedures.
IIRC The new fluff even mentions this, saying that Sijan can barely function because there are never enough Thaumaturges that know the correct rituals.

If it could barely function, it wouldn't exist.

Sydonai · Nov 18, 2016

Valette-Serafina said:
If it could barely function, it wouldn't exist.

Hence, why I don't think much of the new fluff.

Valette-Serafina · Nov 18, 2016

Sydonai said:
Hence, why I don't think much of the new fluff.

At least the crunch is... Oh, right. Yeeaah.

Bre Karn · Nov 18, 2016

I'm not for bashing the new edition. It has its upsides.

But what they did to thaumaturgy remains a crime against humanity.[/totallynotdramatichyperbole]

Valette-Serafina · Nov 18, 2016

And Martial Arts.

And Craft. Poor, poor Craft.

Jarudazuigu · Nov 18, 2016

I totes agree that they did some splendid work on things here and there. For example the complete overhaul of Sorcery systems, including the Workings, is awesome.

On the other hand ... what they did with Thuamaturgy is yes, a stupidity. Wouldn't it be simpler to say that Thaumaturgy is too puny for Exalted to learn? That charms override the subtleties of them with sheer, unmitigated power?
Where Thaumaturgy relies on nudging things patiently to achieve some results, Charms are quicker, more powerful and easier to use.

Show me an Exalt who'll dump XP and training into Thaumaturgical Art of Elemental Beckoning ... when he can just summon an Elemental and punch it till it does his bidding.

In all of my ST-ing and Playing of Exalted ... over 15 people ... TWO learned Thaumaturgy. One was a dude who wanted to use Solar Punch-Teaching charms to create an army of useful Thaumaturges with Awekened Essence.
Other was me.

EDIT: Valette-Serafina ... there is no Craft in Third Edition.

Sydonai said:
I think that was a reference to the Primacy of Defense still being a thing.

But it isn't a rule of Creation as far as I understand? It's game mechanic? Or if we speak in Creation-fluff, Shinmaic Law?

Sydonai said:
There is also Sijan, all those funerary rites that they are famous for are Thaumaturgical Procedures.
IIRC The new fluff even mentions this, saying that Sijan can barely function because there are never enough Thaumaturges that know the correct rituals.

Ach, Sijan.

By new Thaumaturgy rules Sijan can't exist. It sits on bigass Shadowland, I think? Without funerary rites they drown in Hungry Ghosts. And Ghosts.

Sydonai · Nov 18, 2016

Jarudazuigu said:
But it isn't a rule of Creation as far as I understand? It's game mechanic? Or if we speak in Creation-fluff, Shinmaic Law?

I...think it may have something to do with the Heaven-Piercing Spear.
Or maybe he was just the first one to take advantage of it.

Jarudazuigu said:
By new Thaumaturgy rules Sijan can't exist. It sits on bigass Shadowland, I think? Without funerary rites they drown in Hungry Ghosts. And Ghosts.

It has multiple Shadowlands.

Jarudazuigu said:
Show me an Exalt who'll dump XP and training into Thaumaturgical Art of Elemental Beckoning ... when he can just summon an Elemental and punch it till it does his bidding.
In all of my ST-ing and Playing of Exalted ... over 15 people ... TWO learned Thaumaturgy. One was a dude who wanted to use Solar Punch-Teaching charms to create an army of useful Thaumaturges with Awekened Essence.
Other was me.

I had a character that learned Thaumaturgy because they just loved learning, and wanted to map out it's limitations.
Also, it is a way to get access to Second Circle Demons when you don't have Celestial Sorcery, and you can make non-Artifact Talismans.

Bre Karn · Nov 18, 2016

Jarudazuigu said:
On the other hand ... what they did with Thuamaturgy is yes, a stupidity. Wouldn't it be simpler to say that Thaumaturgy is too puny for Exalted to learn? That charms override the subtleties of them with sheer, unmitigated power?
Where Thaumaturgy relies on nudging things patiently to achieve some results, Charms are quicker, more powerful and easier to use.

A significant amount of my Exalted characters, even sorcerers, were also thaumaturges. I like the low-power ritual magic stuff, it has a different atmosphere than the world-shaking spells of sorcery.

Skitzyfrenic · Nov 18, 2016

I've been think about picking up thaum in my alchemical game since I don't really want the weaving engine.

It seems to be pretty useful if low power in ~Ex2.

Valette-Serafina · Nov 18, 2016

Jarudazuigu said:
But it isn't a rule of Creation as far as I understand? It's game mechanic? Or if we speak in Creation-fluff, Shinmaic Law?

Shinmatic law is more fundamental than that. Known Shinmatic laws include: Things exist, things have form, things interact, things are somewhere.

Regardless, the primacy of defence is a universal law. Nothing can break a perfect defence.

Skitzyfrenic said:
I've been think about picking up thaum in my alchemical game since I don't really want the weaving engine.

It seems to be pretty useful if low power in ~Ex2.

Ex2 Sorcery is direct, large scale, and requires comparatively little preparation.
Ex2 Thaumaturgy works within natural laws. It is slower, requires resources, and lacks the absolute power or scale of sorcery.

Sorcery demands sacrifice, it is loud, brash, and hard to teach.
Thaumaturgy simply requires knowledge. It is subtle, and almost everyone can learn it.

Sydonai · Nov 18, 2016

Valette-Serafina said:
Known Shinmatic laws include: Things exist, things have form, things interact, things are somewhere.

.

Nirakara, the Mask
The definer of shape.

Nirguna, the Heart
The definer of existence.

Dharma, the Cup
The definer of corrosion, ignorance, and desire.

Nirvishesha, the Ring
The definer of identity.

Nirvikalpa, the Staff
The definer of communication.

Nirupadhika, the Way
The definer of space and location.

.

Anasurimbor · Nov 18, 2016

Jarudazuigu said:
You are mistaking Divine Charms. Thaumaturgy was always about asking for shit in correct manner. The "Roll X to see the results" emulated that many factors contribute to success or failure. Not a bored Exalt pouring motes into Charm and stomping his metaphorical foot down.

The net result is that mortals can reliably invoke divine miracles. A world in which a skilled weather worker can reliably bring much needed rain is very different than one in which even the most eloquent and knowledgeable priest or shaman is still fundamentally limited by divine whims.

Jarudazuigu said:
Lack of reliable-to-learn Thaumaturgy means that some nations that heavily rely on it have less sense.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding. Thaumaturgy can be reliably taught to those with the appropriate sensitivity. It's just that the esoteric insights required to grasp the miracle must be experienced first hand, as they are essentially impossible to encode into language.

What it does mean is that those with the talent to learn thamaturgy are a strategic resource, and that, particularly in isolated areas, critical miracles may be lost forever if there is no one in the next generation capable of learning them.

Jarudazuigu said:
I recall there was one wich used Art of Astrology for everything. With each Astrological Procedure now needing a Speshul Snowflake training your doods, one at time, the whole reliance on the Art becomes ... bothersome.

You're probably thinking of Varang, which has an extremely rigid caste system based on the exact time of day of birth. Actually accurate astrology... not so much.

And if one on one training from a master to an apprentice is bothersome, then we might as well cancel this whole civilization thing, because it's nothing compared to levying taxes or raising armies.

Jarudazuigu · Nov 18, 2016

Nekraa , Valette-Serafina ... apologies, I missed you replying to me eariler.

Nekraa said:
And you're still wrong.
It is impossible. A human can not become a primordial through the Wyld.

It is, impossible, within bounds of Fate. Same deal as with defeating Primordials.

Nekraa said:
You're welcome to cite proof for it though.

If you seek me to cite you something along:"Dev said it can be done." then no, I do not have proof. But if you are willing to listen I will gladly cite you the chain of logic that leads to such conclusion:
-Exaltation gives humans Normal (Dragon-Blooded), Easy(Celestial) or Kid-Gloves with Tutorial(Solaroids) "game" mode. While heroic mortals are defaulting on Hard mode.
-Unshaped are related to Primordials. If less metaphorically mighty.
It's in Graceful Wicked Masques book.
-Ishavara Raksha are ALMOST like Primordials. Certainly on par with "Unconquered" Sun. Look for the examples of Unshaped named Fomorian Night and Prince Lashee Morning Star.
It is in Unconquered Sun's chapter of that book about Incarnae.
-Humans can become Raksha.
Again it is in Graceful Wicked Masques.
-Pure Chaos can give rise to things on par with Primordial. Proto-Shinmaic Vortex is a embryo universe, savvy?
It's in the book about Solar artifacts.

Thus the conclusion that Unshaped Ishavara can become Primordial. It merely takes an impossible task.

Nekraa said:
... So, do you only know of Exalted through memes?

No. I play it from time to time. The 2ed, that is.

Valette-Serafina said:
No, it is. That's its fundamental nature. The wyld surrounds Creation.
That is why the Raksha hate it.

Creation-bound Raksha hate it. It is a humiliation that forces them to be semi-symbiotic with a thing that wants them erased from existing.

And Wyld is infinite. Does Creation? Thus claiming that Creation is in the center is ... dubious at best.

Valette-Serafina said:
Creation is the only constant. Reality was bent during its creation.
Raksha are changed and warped by everything.

There is also Zen Mu. There is also Creation-equivalent made by Primordial jealous of the group who made Creation. And while the Unconquered Sun blew up the second with Echnaton Lock, it proves that Creation is nothing unique in the infinity of the Wyld.

Valette-Serafina said:
Remember how that worked out? Do you?

With ass-pulled double miracle of Raksha betraying their leader and Her Redness managing to activate Realm Defense Grid.

Valette-Serafina said:
No, that happens. Rarely. It's not a result of their defences being overcome, however. It's a result of weakness of will, trickery, or simple lack of preparation.

Yes. It happens with just natural hazards of the Wyld.

Valette-Serafina said:
There is no unshaped who can overcome a shaping defence.
It's not exactly an agreement. Rather, it's an alteration of the way the universe works.

Lets agree to disagree on the latter. The first? Cite your evidence please.

As for overcoming Perfect Defenses. I know of two ways:
Death at the Roots, that not-cute Moonsilver Grimcleaver with enough successes on activation it can shatter Charm/Magic based defense. For example insta-gib Unconquered Sun.
And there is also "Break, even if invincible, break!" Charm in Lunar Strength tree at Essence 8-10 I believe. It Luna's splat or in DoFA supplement.

Valette-Serafina said:
If it were within the power of the Yozi, they would go back. Thus, they cannot.
The Time of Cascading Years tells us just how much the Exalted of the first age cared about consequence.

Yozi aren't the same as Primordials. They are limited. So far they only can pass some notes 5 days back in time.

Valette-Serafina said:
And the passage of time, and the existence of Creation.

We dunno about the "passage of time". It can go wonky in Creation proper as various incidents proven. In Pure Chaos all bets are off. At least in my opinion.
Existence of Creation ... since when a forcibly stabilized world within the infinite premises of the Wyld is unique or something special?!

Sydonai said:
I had a character that learned Thaumaturgy because they just loved learning, and wanted to map out it's limitations.
Also, it is a way to get access to Second Circle Demons when you don't have Celestial Sorcery, and you can make non-Artifact Talismans.

My dude learned Thaumaturgy as a backup to designing spells and charms relying heavily on these things. Sadly that game ended before I finished my research into empowering humans past 3 Essence without Elementalization, Demonization or Deification.

And Thaumaturgical Artifacts are still ones! Just fragile as heck thus why I mostly used them as equivalent of D&D potions. Or bombs, let's not forget the sacred mysteries of dakka!

Bre Karn said:
A significant amount of my Exalted characters, even sorcerers, were also thaumaturges. I like the low-power ritual magic stuff, it has a different atmosphere than the world-shaking spells of sorcery.

Ayup. And it had significiant benefits when teams of Thaumaturges were working together! Heck, I once designed Sorcery that worked on Thaumaturgy almost like the Dragon-Blooded "let's gang up and cooperate like one body, doods!"

But now it's imposibru.

Skitzyfrenic said:
I've been think about picking up thaum in my alchemical game since I don't really want the weaving engine.
It seems to be pretty useful if low power in ~Ex2.

It was very useful. Low entry requirements. Manageable costs. Plenthora of minor effects that are often stackable to impressive level. Of course when dealing with smaller stuff. Against Exalts it was for naught. But against Exalts you use Speshul Snowflake stuff anyway.

Till today I remember re-enacting scenes from "300" against a Nameless Hordes swarm of critters with a well prepared and equipped human army. Without Thaumaturgy my Twilight would die then. Along the whole country before reinforcements arrive. Not to mention that Realm dudes would attack me first, instead of monsters!

Anasurimbor said:
The net result is that mortals can reliably invoke divine miracles. A world in which a skilled weather worker can reliably bring much needed rain is very different than one in which even the most eloquent and knowledgeable priest or shaman is still fundamentally limited by divine whims.

Since when gods have to reply to Thaumaturge's requests and sacrifices?! You seem to believe that bored Elemental will react the same to Thaumaturge begging and Exalt punching him to do stuff.

Anasurimbor said:
This is a fundamental misunderstanding. Thaumaturgy can be reliably taught to those with the appropriate sensitivity. It's just that the esoteric insights required to grasp the miracle must be experienced first hand, as they are essentially impossible to encode into language.
What it does mean is that those with the talent to learn thamaturgy are a strategic resource, and that, particularly in isolated areas, critical miracles may be lost forever if there is no one in the next generation capable of learning them.

It isn't very reliable if it requires something on par of Autochton's: "Only Five Mortals that are my special little snowflakes can make an Alchemical. Deal with it, Solar."

And making Thaumaturgy from "Knowledge is power, leads to benefits if you know how to influence natural laws." to:"Even gods don't understand why that shit happens. But they feel compelled to do this or that because that bald dude painted his ass blue and was doing synchronic dance with three monkeys."

It makes Thaumaturgy less reliable and useful than Sorcery. Why learn Thaumaturgy when Sorcerers can be more reliably trained and their spells can work the same, or BETTER?
You risk your life, true. But when you learn Sorcery, you can laugh louder on Thaumaturges. Who firstly need a special attiude. Secondly need a tutor. Or literal miracle, that even gods don't have the fuzziest idea how, to happen.
And gain so much less than you for partly price of risking life, soul and limb.

Anasurimbor said:
You're probably thinking of Varang, which has an extremely rigid caste system based on the exact time of day of birth. Actually accurate astrology... not so much.
And if one on one training from a master to an apprentice is bothersome, then we might as well cancel this whole civilization thing, because it's nothing compared to levying taxes or raising armies.

Finding people capable of learning, when it can be basically attributed to "try your luck, bub!" is what is bothersome here.

Space Penguin · Nov 19, 2016

All this talk of human becoming Primordials nows gets me thinking of has there ever been a M:TA and M:TAW vs Exalted versus?

Nervaqus987 said:
Provided I'm remembering everything right?

oWoD is being produced under the original name. nWoD got a name change to "Chronicles of Darkness" to cut down on newbie confusion and is also still being produced. I believe that the way things are currently going is that Paradox is hiring Onyx Path to do the writing and such. So basically, very little has changed aside from who owns what.

Aside from Scion and Trinity, both of which lines are owned directly by Onyx Path and are getting new Editions. Scion already had a very successful kickstarter. The Trinity stuff on the other hand, is way over the horizon.

So nothing has changed at all. I see. We still seeing M20 as the core of the Old World of Darkness.

Valette-Serafina · Nov 19, 2016

Space Penguin said:
All this talk of human becoming Primordials nows gets me thinking of has there ever been a M:TA and M:TAW vs Exalted versus?

The issue is that one setting must dominate the other.

Given that both versions of Mage lack the Shaping keyword, their fans would say that Mage magic doesn't count as Shaping.

Given that the Exalted killed beings who spanned worlds and defined reality, Exalted fans would point out that lacking the keyword doesn't make it not Shaping.

Then a Mage fan would throw a hissy fit about not being able to violate the Primacy of Defense, it would devolve into a verbal slap fight, and no one would be happy.

Jarudazuigu said:
-Ishavara Raksha are ALMOST like Primordials. Certainly on par with "Unconquered" Sun. Look for the examples of Unshaped named Fomorian Night and Prince Lashee Morning Star.
It is in Unconquered Sun's chapter of that book about Incarnae.

They fucking aren't. Seriously, did you read the part you're pointing Nekraa to?

Jarudazuigu said:
Creation-bound Raksha hate it. It is a humiliation that forces them to be semi-symbiotic with a thing that wants them erased from existing.

And everything outside creation is..?

Fanon, or a ravenous monster that exists in its current form because that's the Narrative spun by Creation. My question was rhetorical.

And Wyld is infinite. Does Creation?

Is Creation, and yes. Vertically.

Thus claiming that Creation is in the center is ... dubious at best.

Explicit canon. There is only one static location in the universe: Creation. Everything else is therefore a certain distance from Creation.

Creation is the constant frame of reference. The centre. The nail in the wyld, that enforces certain rules.

Jarudazuigu said:
We dunno about the "passage of time". It can go wonky in Creation proper as various incidents proven.

Wonky, but still linear. It flows in one way, and thus so does time across all of the wyld.

Jarudazuigu said:
Existence of Creation ... since when a forcibly stabilized world within the infinite premises of the Wyld is unique or something special?!

Since, once again, the creation of Creation. Creation is self-reinforcing. The petty fifes of the fair folk mimic it.

Jarudazuigu said:
Lets agree to disagree on the latter. The first? Cite your evidence please.

As for overcoming Perfect Defenses. I know of two ways:
Death at the Roots, that not-cute Moonsilver Grimcleaver with enough successes on activation it can shatter Charm/Magic based defense. For example insta-gib Unconquered Sun.
And there is also "Break, even if invincible, break!" Charm in Lunar Strength tree at Essence 8-10 I believe. It Luna's splat or in DoFA supplement.

...Why am I even fucking bothering. You don't know anything about what you're talking about.

Nervaqus987 · Nov 19, 2016

Space Penguin said:
All this talk of human becoming Primordials nows gets me thinking of has there ever been a M:TA and M:TAW vs Exalted versus?

*staring out a thousand yards away*

There have been. There have been.

Bre Karn · Nov 19, 2016

I think I just triggered a little upon reading this.

pls staph no vs debate

OTOH, there has been dev talk about an Exalted x WoD crossover book, but not a peep of that since a couple of years at least AFAIK?

Space Penguin · Nov 19, 2016

Valette-Serafina said:
The issue is that one setting must dominate the other.

Given that both versions of Mage lack the Shaping keyword, their fans would say that Mage magic doesn't count as Shaping.

Given that the Exalted killed beings who spanned worlds and defined reality, Exalted fans would point out that lacking the keyword doesn't make it not Shaping.

Then a Mage fan would throw a hissy fit about not being able to violate the Primacy of Defense, it would devolve into a verbal slap fight, and no one would be happy.

Well Mage the Ascension could just use their hax powers to pull all sorts of crap that will cause the Exalt to deplete his motes and protections and then dies. For example, Void Engineers could spam thousands of bullets and bombs until the exalt's motes run out. Where did all the bombs and bullets come from you say? Matter sphere.

But yeah, it was just a question if such debates have taken place. Lets not have an actual debate here.

Nervaqus987 said:
*staring out a thousand yards away*

There have been. There have been.

Link please.

Bre Karn said:
I think I just triggered a little upon reading this.

sorry.

pls staph no vs debate

Agreed

OTOH, there has been dev talk about an Exalted x WoD crossover book, but not a peep of that since a couple of years at least AFAIK?

How the hell would that work

?

Valette-Serafina · Nov 19, 2016

Space Penguin said:
Well Mage the Ascension could just use their hax powers to pull all sorts of crap that will cause the Exalt to deplete his motes and protections and then dies. For example, Void Engineers could spam thousands of bullets and bombs until the exalt's motes run out. Where did all the bombs and bullets come from you say? Matter sphere.

Enviromental hazard defences are scenelong.

See? This is where it goes. The mechanics are not compatible.

Sydonai · Nov 19, 2016

Bre Karn said:
OTOH, there has been dev talk about an Exalted x WoD crossover book, but not a peep of that since a couple of years at least AFAIK?

IIRC They stopped talking about that at about the same time they stopped talking about the Pony Exploitation Exalted setting.

Space Penguin · Nov 19, 2016

Valette-Serafina said:
Enviromental hazard defences are scenelong.

Wouldn't that only work for bombs and not the bullets or lasers?

Also, we do have the Akashic brotherhood and they have Kung fu too.

So

See? This is where it goes. The mechanics are not compatible.

Indeed. I love Exalted vs debates. Such rage that is generated.

Sydonai said:
IIRC They stopped talking about that at about the same time they stopped talking about the Pony Exploitation Exalted setting.

What?

Valette-Serafina · Nov 19, 2016

Space Penguin said:
Wouldn't that only work for bombs and not the bullets or lasers?

Each individual bullet/laser/sword/Any kind of projectile ≠ One attack.

Also, we do have the Akashic brotherhood and they have Kung fu too.

Not Exalted kung fu.

Indeed. I love Exalted vs debates. Such rage that is generated.

...That's detestable.

Space Penguin · Nov 19, 2016

Valette-Serafina said:
Each individual bullet/laser/sword/Any kind of projectile ≠ One attack.

Explain. Genuinely curious.

I mean isn't one of the tactics against the Exalted is to attack them with an army that hits them with everything like arrows and so on.

Not Exalted kung fu.

Well Exalts do have it that they are better at everything then everyone else. IIRC, the Exalted victory against the Primordials wasn't easy. They did die a lot before they finally won.

I kinda wanna see an sphere 9 akashic brotherhood go kungfu fighting against an Exalt. The sheer kungfu

...That's detestable.

Why? No one is getting hurt and seeing them all rage cause of Perfect defense and then throwing more and more imaginary biggatons only for them to met the perfect defense which causes the rage to grow is hilarious.

Nekraa · Nov 19, 2016

VS debates are generally stupid and often boring. They can sometimes show stuff from one or both settings involved, but that's a rarity rather than a norm.

Space Penguin · Nov 19, 2016

Nekraa said:
VS debates are generally stupid and often boring. They can sometimes show stuff from one or both settings involved, but that's a rarity rather than a norm.

Agree. I read them for entertainment. Participate sometimes if someone posts info that I see as wrong but don't really care who wins.

Still yeah, I'm not vs debating here guys. Just curious about how mage stuff interacts with Exalted and if Mages can fight Exalted.

Exalted 3E Discussion

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